Clarifications that amaze (for Ashutosh and all)

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Ashutosh

 

What a fantastic story! I'll have to read the Mahabharata which is

stacked somewhere in my closet.

 

As in all these vedic literatures, I suspect that there are

astrological meanings to the symbolisms used. We need to ponder the

possible meanings to this story in astrological terms. For example,

 

1. Can we see the nakshatras that represent Jay and Vijaya?

 

2. What are the astrological combinations that would represent the

life of Jarasandha? Was he born on a sandhi rashi (that is, at the

cusp in between a water and fire sign)?

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

valist, "astrologerashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh wrote:

>

> Dear John,

>

> Let me add some bits to the story.

>

> Jay and Vijay were the dwarpaals or the gatekeepers of

vaikunth, Vishnu's abode. Krishna, as the mythology goes, was an

avatar of Vishnu, the preserver.

>

> Vijay was born as Shishupal, to Krishna's aunt. When

Shishupal's extra limbs fell off when he was placed on Krishna's lap,

Shishupal's mother took a promise from Krishna to forgive Shishupal's

hundred follies.

>

> Shishupal was groomed and educated by Jarasandh, the king

of Magadh, present state of Bihar in India. Jarasandh was an enemy of

Krishna because Krishna had killed his son-in-law Kamsa.

>

> So, in company of Jarasandh, Shishupal learnt nothing but

hatred for Krishna. Krishna had also eloped with Rukmini, whose

marriage had been fixed with Shishupal by her brother and Shishupal's

friend, Rukmi.

>

> So, he had one more reason to hate Krishna.

>

> When Draupadi's swayamvar was organised, and Arjun, in

disguise of a Brahmin, had won her hand after passing a test of

marksmanship, Shishupal and others protested. Krishna tried to pacify

them. All others retreated but Shishupal kept on heaping abuses on

Krishna.

>

> Krishna listened patiently, to everyone's surprise, but as

soon as Shisupal had uttered one hundred and one abuses, Krishna cut

off his head with his Chakra.

>

>

> There is a very interesting story about Jarasandh too.

>

> He was born dead and his body was in two equal parts, one

left and one right half. His mother threw these parts in the woods. A

demoness named Jara saw these parts and, using her occult powers,

joined them. Then she also infused life in this dead infant. She then

handed over the infant to its parents who named it Jarasandha after

the demoness. 'Sandh' is derived from sanskrit 'sandhi' which means

joint. So, Jarasandh means the one who was "joined by Jara".

>

> He grew up to be a mighty king and ruled over Magadha, the

biggest and mightiest kingdom of ancient India. He was a staunch

enemy of Krishna and Pandavas. Almost invincible, he was a foe who

could have hindered victory of Pandavas over Kauravas.

>

> Krishna formulated a plan to eliminate Jarasandh. He knew

that this king of Magadha was a able and proud wrestler. Krishna,

Bheem (the mightiest man on earth and second Pandav brother) and

Arjun (the third Pandav) went to Magadh disguised as Brahmins. There

Bheem challenged Jarasandh to a wrestling duel.

>

> Jarasandh, though he had recognised all three, accepted the

challenge. Both mighty wrestlers were soon wrestling in the arena.

Bheem, even though being more powerfull than Jarasandh, was not

finding it easy to kill him. Jarasnadhs had mystical supernatural

powers gifted to him by Jara, the demoness.

>

> Then, Krishna took a blade of grass in his fingers and tore

it into half longitudinaly, indicating to Bheem the way to kill

Jarasandha. Bheem threw his enemy on the ground, and putting one foot

on Jarasandh's one leg and pulling the other with leg with hands tore

his body into two halves. He then threw left half to left and right

half to right.

>

> But, Jara's magic was not to be so easily vanquished. The

two halves joined again and Jarasandh was fighting with more vigour.

Then Krishna again tore a blade of grass in two halves, but threw the

left half on right and right half on left. Bheem got the hint and

again tore Jarasandh into two, and threw the halves on oppisite

sides. When the two halves tried to join each other, they could not

and Jarasandh was finally dead.

>

> The Mahabharat is full of such interesting stories. And it

is only one of the many mythological epics popular in India.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Ashutosh

>

>

>

>

> -

> John

> valist

> Monday, 20 March, 2006 11:09

> Re: Clarifications that amaze (for Das and all)

>

>

> Namaste Wendy,

>

> We appreciate this story. Thanks.

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

>

>

> valist, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Das & All,

> >

> > One could be excused for thinking they'd come across some "New

Age"

> > group? Certainly the sentiments expressed recently have little

to do

> > with Jyotish, but perhaps this is just a passing mood.

> >

> > I find it necessary to point out that those who say they don't

> > believe in karma (as dispensed by the Grahas) or in the state

after

> > death, are certainly not in accord with the teachings of Vedic

> > astrology.

> >

> > BPHS Ch.84:

> > "26-27. The Grah, who is the cause of adverse effects to a

person at

> > any time, should be handled by worship and appeasing (of the

> > benevolent ones), because Brahma has blessed the Grahas with

the

> boon

> > "Do good to the persons, who worship you". And the development

and

> > progress and downfall of the people and the creation and

destruction

> > of the universe are all under the administration and authority

of

> the

> > Grahas. Therefore they are most venerable."

> >

> > Ch. 44:

> > "43-45. ASCENT AFTER DEATH:

> > According to the following planets in the 12th, 7th, 6th, or

the

> 8th,

> > the native will attain such worlds after death: Jupiter -

heaven,

> the

> > Moon or Venus - the world of Manes, Mars/Sun -earth (i.e.

rebirth),

> > Mercury/Saturn - hell. Should the said houses be not occupied,

the

> > native will go to the world as indicated by stronger of the

decanate

> > lords related to the 6th and the 8th. The relative planet's

> > exaltation etc. will denote the high, medium, and low status the

> > native will obtain in the said world."

> >

> > Those who disagree with the basic teachings of Jyotish have no

> > business studying it. As Parashara states in Ch.3:

> > "Only good will follow the teaching of this science to the

students

> > who are peacefully disposed, who honour the preceptors (and

elders)

> > who speak only truth and who are God-fearing. Woeful for ever

> > doubtlessly will it be to impart knowledge of this science to an

> > unwilling student, to a heterodox, and to a crafty person."

> >

> > [PS: no need to send your arguments on to me - I'm simply

conveying

> > Parashara's teachings...]

> >

> > BTW a true Vedic astrologer has respect for all religions as he

> > understands totally the implications of planets influencing 9th

> > house. For Das, BTW, the heavy influence of F/M Saturn on both

9th

> > lord and 9th house is obvious in his writings. This is the way

it is

> > for Das and he's obviously okay with that (so he says). But I do

> > think he should be more respectful to those who do honour

religion,

> > religious teachers, gurus etc.. Intolerance is used as an

argument

> > (only) when accusing others who object to his

> intolerance...bigotry,

> > it seems, has many disguises!??

> >

> > In response to John and Patricia's post I offer the following

story

> > (in part and from memory) as narrated to me by ShantiMayi:

> >

> > "Krishna had two Valets, one was Jay, the other Vijay. Vijay, a

very

> > high soul, very loving, very honest, was greatly loved by

Krishna.

> > When Vijay died he went to Brahma loka (as he'd been told he

would)

> > and, in his eagerness to see Brahma, he tripped and fell over a

> > little Ashwini Kumara who cursed him to a thousand more lives.

> > Devastated, Vijay pleaded with Brahma to lift the curse.

> > Unfortunately Brahma could not lift the curse completely (karma

is

> > karma and must be fulfilled) so he told Vijay he would give him

a

> > choice.

> >

> > 1) You can live 10 lives as a great saint; everyone will love

you;

> > you will give everyone back to themselves; speak only of God;

your

> > whole life will be cared for so sweetly; always the flowers will

> > come; always the nectar will come into the people you are with.

Your

> > death will be a great honour. OR...

> >

> > 2) You can live 3 lives as a demon. No one will like you;

you'll

> live

> > a miserable life, everyone will hate you, and you will die a

violent

> > death.

> >

> > Vijay said, "Lord, I'll take 3 lives as a demon - it's much

quicker

> > getting home." Immediately Vijay was placed into the womb of

> > Krishna's cousin (I think, or maybe aunt?). As the story was

told to

> > me he (Sisupala) was born with three eyes and four arms. Brahma

told

> > Sisupala's mother that as soon as the child was placed on the

lap of

> > the one who would kill him, one eye would recede, two arms would

> > recede, and the child would be normal. And, of course, as soon

as he

> > was placed on Krishna's lap, this is what happened.

> >

> > Sisupala's mother was shocked and said "Krishna, you're going

to

> kill

> > my son!", Krishna replied that he would take a million insults

from

> > her son. He didn't however say that he would not kill Sisupala.

> >

> > Sisupala grew up hating Krishna (always hurling insults at

him).

> Then

> > one final day, after hurling more insults, Sisupala challenged

> > Krishna to a duel...the time had come! As Krishna took aim with

his

> > chakra he looked at Sisupala with all the love in his heart

because

> > he knew it was his beloved Vijay. Immediately the chakra

struck, the

> > golden form of Vijay knelt at Krishna's feet and

whispered, "Thank

> > you Krishna, one life finished, so much closer to home."

> >

> > To me, the crux of this story is that we don't (really) know

another

> > person. We may think we know by looking at their karma in this

> > life...but what do we truly know about the people we're looking

at

> > and (often) judging. It's a beautiful story!

> >

> > Best Wishes,

> > Mrs. Wendy

> > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > ______________________________

> > valist, Patricia Robinett <patricia@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > john, to me, the point of the story is that

> > nothing but heaven exists.

> > we are just entertaining ourselves with

> > our ideas of 'hell.'

> > heaven is inevitable.

> > we might as well enjoy it here too.

> >

> > love, patricia

> >

> >

> > On Mar 18, 2006, at 11:26 AM, John wrote:

> >

> > There's a story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam about a man who hated

> > Krishna so much with his whole being. At one gathering, the man

> > stood up to denounce Krishna who subsequently threw his

sudarshan

> > disc to cut the man's head off. After the man's death, his

soul

> went

> > to heaven anyway.

> >

> > Moral of the story: in spite of his hatred, he constantly

thought

> of

> > Krishna. Thus, he was saved.

> >

>

>

> Links

>

[Guest guest]

Let me see if I have got some details right & please pardon any mistakes.

 

Madhu & Kaitav were the 2 original demons who had attacked Brahma the creator,

right at the onset of creation. Brahma entreated Vishnu to help him escape the

fury of the demons & they managed to fell 3 blows on Vishnu before he beheaded

them with his chakra.

They immidiately begged for mercy & Vishnu granted them the position of gaurds

to his home in Vaikunth but because of the 3 blows, they had to work out the

karma by taking 3 rebirths on Earth.

 

The first round was as the stepbrothers of the Gods, Hiranyaksh &

Hiranyakashyap, 2 infamously terrible demons also beheaded by one of the avtars

of Vishnu, I cant remmember which, possibly Narasimha.

The second round was as Ravan & Kumbhkaran, the Villains of Ramayan, killed by Ram.

The third round was as Shishupal & he was beheaded by Krishna. I forget who

shishupal`s companion was.

 

Rahu & ketu`s story seems to run along a similar myth so its possible that these

nodes represent this recurrent theme in the Hindu Mythology.

 

Pondering the astrological meanings of myths would be the most interesting &

facinating undertaking if someone or several of us, would kindly share such

information on this site.

 

Hari Om !

Shabnam

 

 

----

 

John

03/20/06 20:29:19

valist

Re: Clarifications that amaze (for Ashutosh and all)

 

Namaste, Ashutosh

 

What a fantastic story! I'll have to read the Mahabharata which is

stacked somewhere in my closet.

 

As in all these vedic literatures, I suspect that there are

astrological meanings to the symbolisms used. We need to ponder the

possible meanings to this story in astrological terms. For example,

 

1. Can we see the nakshatras that represent Jay and Vijaya?

 

2. What are the astrological combinations that would represent the

life of Jarasandha? Was he born on a sandhi rashi (that is, at the

cusp in between a water and fire sign)?

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

valist, "astrologerashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh wrote:

>

> Dear John,

>

> Let me add some bits to the story.

>

> Jay and Vijay were the dwarpaals or the gatekeepers of

vaikunth, Vishnu's abode. Krishna, as the mythology goes, was an

avatar of Vishnu, the preserver.

>

> Vijay was born as Shishupal, to Krishna's aunt. When

Shishupal's extra limbs fell off when he was placed on Krishna's lap,

Shishupal's mother took a promise from Krishna to forgive Shishupal's

hundred follies.

>

> Shishupal was groomed and educated by Jarasandh, the king

of Magadh, present state of Bihar in India. Jarasandh was an enemy of

Krishna because Krishna had killed his son-in-law Kamsa.

>

> So, in company of Jarasandh, Shishupal learnt nothing but

hatred for Krishna. Krishna had also eloped with Rukmini, whose

marriage had been fixed with Shishupal by her brother and Shishupal's

friend, Rukmi.

>

> So, he had one more reason to hate Krishna.

>

> When Draupadi's swayamvar was organised, and Arjun, in

disguise of a Brahmin, had won her hand after passing a test of

marksmanship, Shishupal and others protested. Krishna tried to pacify

them. All others retreated but Shishupal kept on heaping abuses on

Krishna.

>

> Krishna listened patiently, to everyone's surprise, but as

soon as Shisupal had uttered one hundred and one abuses, Krishna cut

off his head with his Chakra.

>

>

> There is a very interesting story about Jarasandh too.

>

> He was born dead and his body was in two equal parts, one

left and one right half. His mother threw these parts in the woods. A

demoness named Jara saw these parts and, using her occult powers,

joined them. Then she also infused life in this dead infant. She then

handed over the infant to its parents who named it Jarasandha after

the demoness. 'Sandh' is derived from sanskrit 'sandhi' which means

joint. So, Jarasandh means the one who was "joined by Jara".

>

> He grew up to be a mighty king and ruled over Magadha, the

biggest and mightiest kingdom of ancient India. He was a staunch

enemy of Krishna and Pandavas. Almost invincible, he was a foe who

could have hindered victory of Pandavas over Kauravas.

>

> Krishna formulated a plan to eliminate Jarasandh. He knew

that this king of Magadha was a able and proud wrestler. Krishna,

Bheem (the mightiest man on earth and second Pandav brother) and

Arjun (the third Pandav) went to Magadh disguised as Brahmins. There

Bheem challenged Jarasandh to a wrestling duel.

>

> Jarasandh, though he had recognised all three, accepted the

challenge. Both mighty wrestlers were soon wrestling in the arena.

Bheem, even though being more powerfull than Jarasandh, was not

finding it easy to kill him. Jarasnadhs had mystical supernatural

powers gifted to him by Jara, the demoness.

>

> Then, Krishna took a blade of grass in his fingers and tore

it into half longitudinaly, indicating to Bheem the way to kill

Jarasandha. Bheem threw his enemy on the ground, and putting one foot

on Jarasandh's one leg and pulling the other with leg with hands tore

his body into two halves. He then threw left half to left and right

half to right.

>

> But, Jara's magic was not to be so easily vanquished. The

two halves joined again and Jarasandh was fighting with more vigour.

Then Krishna again tore a blade of grass in two halves, but threw the

left half on right and right half on left. Bheem got the hint and

again tore Jarasandh into two, and threw the halves on oppisite

sides. When the two halves tried to join each other, they could not

and Jarasandh was finally dead.

>

> The Mahabharat is full of such interesting stories. And it

is only one of the many mythological epics popular in India.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Ashutosh

>

>

>

>

> -

> John

> valist

> Monday, 20 March, 2006 11:09

> Re: Clarifications that amaze (for Das and all)

>

>

> Namaste Wendy,

>

> We appreciate this story. Thanks.

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

>

>

> valist, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Das & All,

> >

> > One could be excused for thinking they'd come across some "New

Age"

> > group? Certainly the sentiments expressed recently have little

to do

> > with Jyotish, but perhaps this is just a passing mood.

> >

> > I find it necessary to point out that those who say they don't

> > believe in karma (as dispensed by the Grahas) or in the state

after

> > death, are certainly not in accord with the teachings of Vedic

> > astrology.

> >

> > BPHS Ch.84:

> > "26-27. The Grah, who is the cause of adverse effects to a

person at

> > any time, should be handled by worship and appeasing (of the

> > benevolent ones), because Brahma has blessed the Grahas with

the

> boon

> > "Do good to the persons, who worship you". And the development

and

> > progress and downfall of the people and the creation and

destruction

> > of the universe are all under the administration and authority

of

> the

> > Grahas. Therefore they are most venerable."

> >

> > Ch. 44:

> > "43-45. ASCENT AFTER DEATH:

> > According to the following planets in the 12th, 7th, 6th, or

the

> 8th,

> > the native will attain such worlds after death: Jupiter -

heaven,

> the

> > Moon or Venus - the world of Manes, Mars/Sun -earth (i.e.

rebirth),

> > Mercury/Saturn - hell. Should the said houses be not occupied,

the

> > native will go to the world as indicated by stronger of the

decanate

> > lords related to the 6th and the 8th. The relative planet's

> > exaltation etc. will denote the high, medium, and low status the

> > native will obtain in the said world."

> >

> > Those who disagree with the basic teachings of Jyotish have no

> > business studying it. As Parashara states in Ch.3:

> > "Only good will follow the teaching of this science to the

students

> > who are peacefully disposed, who honour the preceptors (and

elders)

> > who speak only truth and who are God-fearing. Woeful for ever

> > doubtlessly will it be to impart knowledge of this science to an

> > unwilling student, to a heterodox, and to a crafty person."

> >

> > [PS: no need to send your arguments on to me - I'm simply

conveying

> > Parashara's teachings...]

> >

> > BTW a true Vedic astrologer has respect for all religions as he

> > understands totally the implications of planets influencing 9th

> > house. For Das, BTW, the heavy influence of F/M Saturn on both

9th

> > lord and 9th house is obvious in his writings. This is the way

it is

> > for Das and he's obviously okay with that (so he says). But I do

> > think he should be more respectful to those who do honour

religion,

> > religious teachers, gurus etc.. Intolerance is used as an

argument

> > (only) when accusing others who object to his

> intolerance...bigotry,

> > it seems, has many disguises!??

> >

> > In response to John and Patricia's post I offer the following

story

> > (in part and from memory) as narrated to me by ShantiMayi:

> >

> > "Krishna had two Valets, one was Jay, the other Vijay. Vijay, a

very

> > high soul, very loving, very honest, was greatly loved by

Krishna.

> > When Vijay died he went to Brahma loka (as he'd been told he

would)

> > and, in his eagerness to see Brahma, he tripped and fell over a

> > little Ashwini Kumara who cursed him to a thousand more lives.

> > Devastated, Vijay pleaded with Brahma to lift the curse.

> > Unfortunately Brahma could not lift the curse completely (karma

is

> > karma and must be fulfilled) so he told Vijay he would give him

a

> > choice.

> >

> > 1) You can live 10 lives as a great saint; everyone will love

you;

> > you will give everyone back to themselves; speak only of God;

your

> > whole life will be cared for so sweetly; always the flowers will

> > come; always the nectar will come into the people you are with.

Your

> > death will be a great honour. OR...

> >

> > 2) You can live 3 lives as a demon. No one will like you;

you'll

> live

> > a miserable life, everyone will hate you, and you will die a

violent

> > death.

> >

> > Vijay said, "Lord, I'll take 3 lives as a demon - it's much

quicker

> > getting home." Immediately Vijay was placed into the womb of

> > Krishna's cousin (I think, or maybe aunt?). As the story was

told to

> > me he (Sisupala) was born with three eyes and four arms. Brahma

told

> > Sisupala's mother that as soon as the child was placed on the

lap of

> > the one who would kill him, one eye would recede, two arms would

> > recede, and the child would be normal. And, of course, as soon

as he

> > was placed on Krishna's lap, this is what happened.

> >

> > Sisupala's mother was shocked and said "Krishna, you're going

to

> kill

> > my son!", Krishna replied that he would take a million insults

from

> > her son. He didn't however say that he would not kill Sisupala.

> >

> > Sisupala grew up hating Krishna (always hurling insults at

him).

> Then

> > one final day, after hurling more insults, Sisupala challenged

> > Krishna to a duel...the time had come! As Krishna took aim with

his

> > chakra he looked at Sisupala with all the love in his heart

because

> > he knew it was his beloved Vijay. Immediately the chakra

struck, the

> > golden form of Vijay knelt at Krishna's feet and

whispered, "Thank

> > you Krishna, one life finished, so much closer to home."

> >

> > To me, the crux of this story is that we don't (really) know

another

> > person. We may think we know by looking at their karma in this

> > life...but what do we truly know about the people we're looking

at

> > and (often) judging. It's a beautiful story!

> >

> > Best Wishes,

> > Mrs. Wendy

> > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > ______________________________

> > valist, Patricia Robinett <patricia@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > john, to me, the point of the story is that

> > nothing but heaven exists.

> > we are just entertaining ourselves with

> > our ideas of 'hell.'

> > heaven is inevitable.

> > we might as well enjoy it here too.

> >

> > love, patricia

> >

> >

> > On Mar 18, 2006, at 11:26 AM, John wrote:

> >

> > There's a story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam about a man who hated

> > Krishna so much with his whole being. At one gathering, the man

> > stood up to denounce Krishna who subsequently threw his

sudarshan

> > disc to cut the man's head off. After the man's death, his

soul

> went

> > to heaven anyway.

> >

> > Moral of the story: in spite of his hatred, he constantly

thought

> of

> > Krishna. Thus, he was saved.

> >

>

>

> Links

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<*>

valist/

 

<*>

valist

 

<*> Your

 

 

 

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