Clarifications that amaze

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends, I mean, souls, on Earth, like me, on this list, like me,

I wish to clarify my reasons and basis for my religious related discussions of late.

At the time of Christ, the people’s who would eventually be Christians

already had religions or groups they belonged to...and usually whole cultures

and races they belonged to.

Then the life of Jesus Christ happened. What really happened is one thing.

Then came the religion. Not one, but two. The original one of his actual

disciples, then the one of Rome, the one of Paul, which is the one that never

knew Jesus the person, and it’s the one that went against Jesus to go

outside of the Jews, which the Apostles tended to not do.

In ANY CASE, when these preachers eventually came North to the lands of the

Celts, and to Ireland, by then it was a religious machine. It was capable of

anything- casting doubt, causing ridicule towards other cultures and beliefs,

and so on. This it did, openly, in Ireland.

That is my point. No Budhist child in Vietnam is taught that he HAS TO love

Christianity to be saved, and little kids in African religions aren’t

either. Hindu children are not taught that, neither are Muslims.

When it comes to me exactly- am I alone in my shame of not honoring the

“Divinity of Christianity”, no, I am so not alone.

There is a huge modern pagan movement going on. I get tons of love mail on this subject too.

It is not Christ that I disrespect, and my post did not attack Christ. It is the

machine of Christianity and so many things that happen in it’s name, and

the falsity, to me, of it’s theology before others, like before Hinduism,

or even Druidism, or even Science or even Atheism. I just don’t see

Christian Theology or Jewish Theology as relevent anymore or to me, being as

I’m not born into that tribe, I have no blood connection or emotional

connection to Judaeism, I’m not a Jew, and therefore why did they cut the

end of my penis off at birth? Why do you say I should have SHAME for my

feelings about Christianity. They had converted my ancestors!

That is so Catholic, or perhaps Christian, (I know Catholic personally), to CAST SHAME.

SHAME ON YOU my mother used to always say. My IRISH CATHOLIC mother.

OK, now onto reality: (away from Christianity that is)

My mother is a pure Irish woman (or was). That means she is of a people known as

Celts and they had a religion, a culture, courts, kings, lands, laws,

everything, before Christ and before Paul and before Patrick, even before Rome

and Greece. Okay? So we’re talking about a full on real people. In

fact, there was a time that they strongly tormented England, and there was a

time, all pre Christian, when they were seen as a highly cultured, highly

skilled people, with extensive trading, extensive intelligencia, everything.

Scots come primarily from Ireland, or originally, and they are too a great race

and culture before Christ, as were ALL in Europe. All stood on their own and

didn’t need to be “converted” to anything.

In the slaughter (meat) industry they call it “converting” the animal.

So too with religions. You “convert” the animal into your dogma

repeater and taxpayer. Then they are saved.

So I am one of those modern pagans who sees what happened for what it is. It was

an ego conquest generally, by religious leaders, of whom I’ve known many,

and I have come to the complete conclusion that they are totally normal men

doing a particular culturally settled or based job, that is of being the

priest, or druid, or shaman, or rabbi, brahmin, pandit, panda, etc...

It’s called Priestcraft, and it’s a job. Some have the evangelical

calling, I know I did. Paul of Tarsus had it bigtime, and it was he who really

caused the spread to Europe, to my ancestors ultimately.

What kind of beauty would it be, if Ireland was still just old Ireland, and was

respected as such, non converted, still Celtic, and some way grown up in

it’s own modern version of itself, but not Christian, rather, allowed to

be what it is, or what it was, just as we for some reason think that the Jews

should be allowed to have their ancient, different, culture. We believe the

American Indians have the right, and the East Indians, that we so follow on

this list, and in our lives of Yoga and Bhakti and Meditation etc....but what

of the Germans and Irish? Do they NOT get this allowance. NO ancient culture

rememberance for them? Is that how it goes?

When you remember your ancient culture as a white person, one of the first

things you realize is that you:

Hate Rome. This is immediate and total.

Realize Christianity is just another Roman oppression

Realize that you and nature are your religion

Astrology fits right in, as does reincarnation

After reading, you find out they all believed that way then

That it was much like Hinduism, and very extent

And destroyed by Rome

Then replaced by Christianity

Who teaches and oppresses against white religions that came before

Moreso than against other cultures, like a particular vendetta

And that this all disapears as soon as you learn a little bit

And you certainly don’t care, don’t feel shame, etc

I am trying to say that I am one of many who have found that Christianity does

not meet our needs, does not answer our questions, does not satisfy our minds.

And you have proven another point by your writing to me as you did, that

Christianity creates autocratic bigotry for itself and therefore for it’s

followers or parrots. You can write to me and tell me to be shamed because I

think Patrick was wrong in his trying to convert Ireland. You think, because

of your allegiance to Christ, that you can say to me that I should shut up and

feel shame and insinuate that I will get more suffering because of vocalizing

against Christ (which I didn’t particular do, but I know what you mean,

you mean against Christianity ( which is not the religion of Christ by my

studying, but we won’t go there right now).

So you prove a point- that Christians are intolerant of opposition. This was

true at the outset. Rome was shocked to find this new cult preached something

new and dangerous- that their way was the only way. Other religions had

tolerance of other religions built in before then. It was understood in Rome

itself that there are many religions, and many Gods. But then came

Christianity, which tried to overthrow that conception, and of course, if we

look around, we see they were wildly successful.

But it is not a law that I must be a sheep, one of his sheep, in his flock.

There is no law to that end, and I am not alone in having open eyes and seeing

that I have a choice. Then too it is not a great stretch, and therefore I am

not alone, in seeing that we really don’t know the answers to the big

questions. When we try to answer them with religion we end up here- in these

dumb discussions about who’s conjecture and “faith” is right

and who is dammed, or “wrong” (gasps of fear are heard of falling

into firy pits, oh no!)

Rather, there is a law in America at least, that protects my right to not feel

shame when I don’t believe that Jesus the Jew of 2000 years ago is my

savior, or when I don’t care if he was divine or not, or when I

don’t believe, or don’t care if I believe, if divine really exists

as a truth for anything in this world.

Truly when your mind is done with any conception, when you died to that, as I

guess I have, and you just see things as they are, you see that religion is a

wishful thinking of choice, an arbitrary acceptance of things of the culture of

the people you are born amongst, a collection of relics of past faiths and

beliefs which are rather arbitrary ultimately, and not at all necessarily

proveable truths in any way or form. I mean, you cannot prove your God to me,

you cannot even prove Jesus to me. History is such and I know the books well.

Nobody knows Mohamed had those visions, and nobody knows if blah blah blah....

It’s always nobody knows about all of it.

We just don’t know for sure why we’re here etc. and that is now OK with me.

All the dogma about karma and sin and such, that grows up in religion, I am

freed from that too, because I just see it as a sale by some priest to his

people then to me. Prabhupada chose to have all those beliefs, so much so he

came here and converted us, so then we too had those intense beliefs. I no

longer have those beliefs. It’s an option. I don’t have to

. Fortunately by ancient German law and custom, I am a free man. I

can have my own house and have my family and rights respected, and this is the

law of America too- because it came to Britain then to America and got

codified. Freedom. I don’t have to . And I don’t.

I am now proud of just what I am. I am a man, white, German and Irish, entitled

by blood to those cultures and customs, and entitled by invitation to visit my

friends of numerous colors all over the world who too are just in their ancient

cultures by their birth right, doing their thing, and perfectly willing to not

only respect me, but actually enjoy my company.

Now, these persons are never total Christians, because like from the very

beginning, those folks are EXCLUSIVIST and think that they are right, and that

all should convert. They still feel that way if they are really of that line.

They are not alone. Some other cults and religions are like that. I’m

not into any of those, and I cannot hang with those kind of people because

their banter about how I should be in their religion BUGS ME. It’s not

that they convince me. They just annoy me with their assumptions about their

rights to disrespect me so. THEY ARE DISRESPECTING ME and anyone else they do

that to.

Many Celts fought the “new religion” for a very long time. I feel

joy in knowing that my people fought Rome and fought the Christian monks, as

best they could. But alas, destiny and the universe have their plans, greater

than our own, that span great times, greater than one of our lives, and we

cannot know this whole picture easily or ever, and so we go, onwards, without

knowing, but doing our part as it is made by the whole. Simple.

I am not against Jews. I am not against Christians, but they are against me. I

find their religious ceremonies uninteresting, but that’s true of other

religions, all religions I think, for me. So no big deal. I don’t like

their views towards me and others. Like I said, that exclusivity has always

bothered others since Christians appeared. It’s scary. They always sound

like they are going to swallow other peoples, and they have, as have some

others. That’s always scary.

I realized I am not religious to any religion. I realized that truly

all’s we know is that we are in one big divine. So to me God is the one,

the big, the divine, which is all that is, all that we see, ourselves included,

etc. I see astrology works and that backs this idea...it’s all one,

it’s on it’s own path and trip, and we know not what that is, or

who is behind it if there is a personal aspect to the divine, a God, or

Gods....we really don’t know. I have to admit that. We believe, but

don’t KNOW FOR SURE.

So I believe in what is for sure, the one whole divine that is all that is.

It’s here, now, too, only and fully. I don’t worship beautiful

deities made to represent the divine, because we don’t know for sure they

are real people, and I feel silly loving a stature of a dream or “belief

system” or “religion”. So I don’t go for personalizing

Gods. Nature and people are enough Divine as they are.

I just see converting and teaching, taxing and punishing, as control trips

brought by invaders, political and religious. Patrick was one, so I covered it

on his day of honor. Yes, I am outside the norm by blasting a

“Saint” on his holy day. Of course I know that. I am honored to

be outside the norm when the norm is intolerance and oppression, and glorifying

that in history with Sainthood and Holy Days for the worst of them.

I am so not alone. Countless pagan warriors and knights of honor are all about

me in spiritual bodies, bloodied, but not beaten, forgotten by most, but not

all, my people by blood and name, not too long ago, who fought to keep Rome and

Christianity out of our native lands, because both were invaders. What about

them? They had names and families, values, family values, and customs, like

Baptisms into faiths, and things like Holy Communion with the Mercy, Prasad,

Eucharist, of their Beloved Gods and Deities. They had Calendars, Brahmins,

Priests and altars of worship. They were noble, and had stories and cultures

and customs, got married, and buried with honor, believed in the herafter, sent

goods in burial with the person to the next life...

Yet Rome, “St” Paul and others disrespected all of this and took it

over, overthrew it with prejudice, and replaced it. Since this overthrowing

was not completed in India, we have the ancient goods still, to our great

benefit. What if that were true of other places too?

I am simply one of the children of my ancestors. I have every right by birth, as

birth is respected in ancient times and in modern America, to the beliefs of my

ancestors, one of which is that we are not Christians, and we can oppose and

even fight invaders to our lands, like Romans and Christian monks who intend to

destroy our cultures, disrepect our holy places, disrespect our elders, and toss

to the garbage our entire reality, social structure, belief system, etc. Do we

not have that right, dear friend? Are we now in a Totalitarian Christian

State?

The fact that I can see this way in modern times is a testimony to my brainpower

and my simple love of reading real history books. My guts and writing ability

are just part of my plan I guess. Otherwise I’m just another pagan

Celtic/Germanic dude, basic thinking/warrior type. Not special.

So I guess I could summarize by putting Christians and the average white people

in the West who haven’t already heard about it on notice that many pagan

hippie types in progressive cities like Eugene are quite comfortable now seeing

Christ as a kind of “Righteousness Stamp” that is being used by the

“White Right” such as Republicans in American and Protestants in

particular too against other cultures. You even get the feeling from blonde

SUV christians that democrats are somehow “not saved”.

Like George Bush exclaiming just post 9/11 that “We’re a GOOD

people”. Well George, so are Iraqis. OK? They just are, because, they

exist. Their history made them the way they are, and you know, they have

exactly the rights that you have. Now that’s a spiritual view. Not

George’s view.

God bless (WHOEVER YOU WANT, GOD).

Not necessarily America.

Irreverence towards Christianity is the norm amongst true scholars and thinkers

of our times. Chritianity is outdated, and outgunned by science. But it

shouldn’t feel bad. It’s joined in this position by most

religions. These are old pre-science superstitions.

This is a normal view these days. I’m surprised that the person who

blasted me about my original Patrick posting isn’t more aware of this

view. Here in progressive Eugene it’s so common, perhaps I took it for

granted that others had heard this “Gospel” or “Good

News”.

If all this makes me crazy, well, it will have to get in line.

And to you dear reader:

Peace, anykind, not just “Christs Peace” and Neither “Pax Romana”,

Did I say it? Did I do good ? (Paws up, puppy eyes, wagging tail...)

Out on a written limb, I remain,

Your not humble friend,

Richard of the MacAoidh, MacCrinion and Vuerst, all good Pagan Families.

Reeshart Mach Aeoidh

Richard MacKayoedh

aka Das Goravani

das (AT) goravani (DOT) com

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