Krishnamurthi (KP) & System's Approach (SA): Towards a Greater Understanding of Modern Styles of Jyotish

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

I have been thinking about this for a very long time.

 

I am hoping that someone out there, can shed light on

this issue.

 

Everyone who studies Jyotish learns early on in their

study, that there are five principle styles, or

schools, of Jyotish; they are as follows:

 

Parasari Jyotish

Tajika Jyotish

Tantric Jyotish

Jaimini Jyotish

Nadi Jyotish

 

Each style, or school, is named for the sage that

supposedly revealed its core tenants at some point in

the past, in some cases as far back as several

thousand years ago. With the exception of Tantric

Jyotish, each of the other schools have also spawned

inspired commentaries. For example, there exists many

such commentaries on the Parasari method by

Mantreshwara (Phaladeepika), Varamahira (Brihat

Jataka) and Kalidasa (Uttara Kalmrita), and more

modern-day commentaries on other schools of Jyotish,

like the recent writings of surgeon and jyotishi Dr.

K.S. Charak (his musings on the Varshaphal, the Solar

Return chart used by the Tajika Jyotish school) and

P.S. Shatri's and Sanjay Rath's commentaries on the

Jaimini school of Jyotish (based on the Jaimini

Sutras).

 

Within the past 20 years or so, building in a quiet

manner, there has been the formation of more

modern-day approaches to Jyotish. Now that Jyotish has

come to the West, no doubt there will continue to be

more innovations to this ancient art. While this may

raise the hackles of those more inclined to the more

tried and true methods, the Rahu in me makes me want

to investigate these more modern methods. In the end,

I may decide that the more classical methods, more or

less, hold sway. But for the moment, I am willing to

see if any of the "new school" holds any water.

 

Of these more modern methods, two schools in

particular seem to merit special attention: the

Krishnamurthi school of Jyotish, and the System's

Approach method of Jyotish. Both have gained a

steadily growing following, both back in the "old

country" as well as here in the West. It is these two

schools of Jyotish that I wish to investigate here.

 

My first question and concern would be, what are the

fundamental tenants of these schools of thought - and

how are their principles applied to the horoscope?

 

Further, another concern and question: how do these

principles apply to the following -

 

Natal Astrology

Medical Analysis

Relationship Compatibility

Predictive Analysis

Horary Astrology

Electional Astrology

Counselling and Remedial Measures

 

Another question and concern: can either of these

schools/styles be intergrated within the larger

frameworks of any of the classical schools of Jyotish?

For example, and only the keen student of Jyotish will

notice this, but most jyotishis blend various schools

of Jyotish thought when considering a horoscope

whether they know it or not. For example, take the

famous (or infamous) Kala Sarpa Yoga, a combination

that hails from the Tantric school of Jyotish. If one

were practicing strictly, let's say, Parasari Jyotish,

they would not recognize this combination, whether it

existed in the horoscope or not.

 

What are the benefits of these more modern schools of

Jyotish - KP and SA - over the more classical,

existing models of Jyotish?

 

Let's take a number of horoscopes, and see what can be

learned...

 

In true Moon-in-Aries fashion, "me first"...

 

Mu'Min Bey: Dec 2, 1968 9.43AM EST Philadelphia, PA

Q: Can death of my parents, which occurred before I

turned 35, be seen using either method?

Q: Ca my deep interest in Astrology, and in

particular, Vedic Astrology, a major consideration,

given my background as an African American, inner-city

urban male, be seen in my horoscope, again, using

either mehtod? And if so, how?

Q: Using either system - KP or SA - What career path

would be best for me?

 

Humanistic Analysis, Romantic and Sexual Concerns, &

Potential Health Matters...

 

Female, Private Case: May 18, 1983 12.28AM EDT,

Philadelphia, PA

Q: What does KP or SA have to say about this woman's

psychological makeup, early homelife and relationship

with her parents? Which relationship in particular is

more problematic - the mother, or the father?

Q: What does either school have to say about this

woman's romantic and sexual life?

Q: What is the KP or SA view of this woman's health

profile, in detail, including key timing structures?

 

On Fame and Death...

 

Marilyn Monroe: June 1, 1926 9.30AM PST, Los Angeles,

CA

Q: Using the KP or SA method, can fame be seen in

Monroe's chart?

Q: Could either system get a bead on Monroe's

lifespan, she having died "before" the age of 40?

Q: What does KP or SA have to say about the nature of

Monroe's death - was it a murder, or a suicide?

 

A Prasna Kundali...

 

Horary Chart - "Should I Report This Accident?":

Friday, Jan 16, 2004 5.06PM EST, Philadelphia, PA

NOTE: This chart is set for the moment I received it

from a colleague, wanting my judgement in the matter.

In that she wanted to see this chart interpreted in

light of the Vedic Astrological method, I thought to

include it here.

Q: How does KP or SA approach the issue of

Horary/Prasna charts?

Q: What light could it shed on the matter under

consideration?

 

A Relationship Challenge for the Krishnamurthi and

System's Approach schools of Jyotish...

 

Prince Charles: Nov 14, 1948 9.14PM WET, London,

England

Princess Diana: July 1, 1961 7.45PM WEDT Sandringham,

England

Q: What is the KP or SA methods for determining

relationship compatibility? What does it have to say

about the compatibility (or the decided lack thereof)

of these "Royals"?

Q: Could either system seen Charles' ongoing

relationship with Camilla Parker-Bowles throughout the

marriage?

Q: Could either school of Jyotish, KP or SA, have seen

the breakup of this couple in 1996?

Q: Could either system have seen the death of Di in

Aug 1997? Could it have suggested before the fact that

Charles would be a widower?

 

An Astro-Medical Case...

 

Rock Hudson: Nov 17, 1925 2.15AM CST Winnetka, IL

Q: What does KP or SA have to say on the question of

homosexuality in the horoscope?

Q: Could either system, had seen AIDSin Hudson's chart

in 1983? Could it have seen Hudson's death in Oct of

1985?

 

And finally...

 

Anais Nin: Feb 21, 1903 8.35PM LMT Neuilly-Sur-Seine,

France

Q: Could KP or SA have foretold Nin's literary gifts?

Q: Could either system see Nin's sexual molestation at

the hands of her father, and if so, how?

Q: Can KP or SA see Nin's very difficult marital life,

as well as her many lesbian affairs?

 

That should be more than enough examples for those of

you out there who are practitioners of the KP or SA

school of Joytish to demonstrate its core principles.

 

I await any and all responses on these matters.

 

The gauntlet has been thrown down. Let's see who picks

it up...

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western & Vedic Astrologer

Priority Email: jedimu11

Cell Phone: 267-467-5158

Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives!

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mumin,

I will try to answer your question with my limited knoeledge;

> Everyone who studies Jyotish learns early on in their

> study, that there are five principle styles, or

> schools, of Jyotish; they are as follows:

>

> Parasari Jyotish

> Tajika Jyotish

> Tantric Jyotish

> Jaimini Jyotish

> Nadi Jyotish

>

> Each style, or school, is named for the sage that

> supposedly revealed its core tenants at some point in

> the past, in some cases as far back as several

> thousand years ago. With the exception of Tantric

> Jyotish, each of the other schools have also spawned

> inspired commentaries. For example, there exists many

> such commentaries on the Parasari method by

> Mantreshwara (Phaladeepika), Varamahira (Brihat

> Jataka) and Kalidasa (Uttara Kalmrita), and more

> modern-day commentaries on other schools of Jyotish,

> like the recent writings of surgeon and jyotishi Dr.

> K.S. Charak (his musings on the Varshaphal, the Solar

> Return chart used by the Tajika Jyotish school) and

> P.S. Shatri's and Sanjay Rath's commentaries on the

> Jaimini school of Jyotish (based on the Jaimini

> Sutras).

I do not agree with your Division, Prashara compiled all the knowledge at

one place and Prashari is an encyclopedia of Astrology , it includes all the

Dasha systems, Jamini was also a sytem but is compiled in BPHS, Nadi is only

elaboration of some of techniques of Prashar Hora Shastra, Varahamihir

relied on Prashar, but Uttar Kal Amrita adopted some western Division such

as Dreshkaan, no body among Varahmihir or Mantreshwara accepted the Dreshkan

and Hora methods cpmes through western school or are currently reffered by

some astrologers.

There are two different school of thoughts on Jamini methods, as well as

there reference in BPHS, some versus are different in different sets of

BPHS.

Tantra has nothing to do with astrology and is a different branch.

Tajika is also western or non Indian sytem but is well adopted in India.

So basicaly there is Prshara Jyotish which contains almost every thing ,

some part of it are famous as Jamini system.

It is same as one will say that Old age, young etc.in a rashi is a concept

of Sytem approach, where as it is a part of BPHS and he has given 96

avasthas for a planet , but system approach was able to apply onle 1/13rth

of that.

In the same way KP adopted Vishmotary Dsha and take Placidus Cusp methods of

west , but because Placidus Cusp chart pass the test of Vishmotary , so we

can say even Placidus though born in west is fit to Prashra.

But Kp does not exclude other methods of Prashra , a KP astrologer is open

to use every thing, but he can differentiate the chart from others due to

Bhva Chart.

If you will go to Mantreshwara , Chamtkar Chintamani and other authors you

will observe that every author has asked to calculate Bhava and to find out

Bhava position of Planets calculating tenth house at a place. Then only

comes the Division Charts.

> Within the past 20 years or so, building in a quiet

> manner, there has been the formation of more

> modern-day approaches to Jyotish. Now that Jyotish has

> come to the West, no doubt there will continue to be

> more innovations to this ancient art. While this may

> raise the hackles of those more inclined to the more

> tried and true methods, the Rahu in me makes me want

> to investigate these more modern methods. In the end,

> I may decide that the more classical methods, more or

> less, hold sway. But for the moment, I am willing to

> see if any of the "new school" holds any water.

>

> Of these more modern methods, two schools in

> particular seem to merit special attention: the

> Krishnamurthi school of Jyotish, and the System's

> Approach method of Jyotish. Both have gained a

> steadily growing following, both back in the "old

> country" as well as here in the West. It is these two

> schools of Jyotish that I wish to investigate here.

>

> My first question and concern would be, what are the

> fundamental tenants of these schools of thought - and

> how are their principles applied to the horoscope?

>

> Further, another concern and question: how do these

> principles apply to the following -

>

> Natal Astrology

> Medical Analysis

> Relationship Compatibility

> Predictive Analysis

> Horary Astrology

> Electional Astrology

> Counselling and Remedial Measures

 

I can write about KP and Vedic, not much familar with Sytem Approach , and i

do not agree with its techique because when ever i tried to go through it i

find it against the basics of Prashara.

KP does not believe in Electional astrology, Krishnamurty arguments for

electional astrology was that you can not change your destiny , you may try

hard by electional astrology to choose an auspicious time but your destiny

will play and you will actualy begin the job at your destinied time.

KP also does not believe in remedial measures, either you are correct in

predicting an incident or you are not. By counceling you can prepare a mind

to face the difficulties one is likely to face , but you can not be God.

Also it is as per Hindus scriptures, Rama's Guru Vasshishit taught him the

same lesson, to fight with your maximum efforts , but to be satisisfied with

the results, in astrlogical terms i will say that what has been destinied

that is has been converted into fruits for this birth can not be cahnged are

in the 9th house , and if any change is likely to come then it is also part

of destiny and will be there in the horoscope, but one has free will to burn

all his good and bad deeds which are not yet converted into destiny and are

in store in 5th house.

>> Another question and concern: can either of these

> schools/styles be intergrated within the larger

> frameworks of any of the classical schools of Jyotish?

> For example, and only the keen student of Jyotish will

> notice this, but most jyotishis blend various schools

> of Jyotish thought when considering a horoscope

> whether they know it or not. For example, take the

> famous (or infamous) Kala Sarpa Yoga, a combination

> that hails from the Tantric school of Jyotish. If one

> were practicing strictly, let's say, Parasari Jyotish,

> they would not recognize this combination, whether it

> existed in the horoscope or not.

 

Reply lies above basicaly all is Prashari , But Prashra too did not ban the

development in astrology , this earth will always have people who are dear

to the God and have knoweldge, it will take the shape , but basics can not

be changed, and there is no tantrik school of astrology , Kal sarpa yoga is

extensively used in Mundane astrology and is a part of that.You can not

expect Prashara to compile every yoga , he was to give basics , astrology is

not for fools , who cant take hints , they need not learn this science.

> What are the benefits of these more modern schools of

> Jyotish - KP and SA - over the more classical,

> existing models of Jyotish?

>

> Let's take a number of horoscopes, and see what can be

> learned...

>

> In true Moon-in-Aries fashion, "me first"...

>

> Mu'Min Bey: Dec 2, 1968 9.43AM EST Philadelphia, PA

> Q: Can death of my parents, which occurred before I

> turned 35, be seen using either method?

> Q: Ca my deep interest in Astrology, and in

> particular, Vedic Astrology, a major consideration,

> given my background as an African American, inner-city

> urban male, be seen in my horoscope, again, using

> either mehtod? And if so, how?

> Q: Using either system - KP or SA - What career path

> would be best for me?

>

> Humanistic Analysis, Romantic and Sexual Concerns, &

> Potential Health Matters...

I dont have time to study all the charts given by you , but i will write for

you only,

You are under Rahu Mahadasha , and how this Rahu will behave as per KP,

1st i must tell you that in KP the Cusp chart is the base , like a plate

holding all the circuts, if the plate is defective and has hole in it then

you can not keep any thing in that.

In Rashi your Ketu Mars and Jupiter are in the 10th aspected by Sat from the

4rth , keeping the aspect in mind shift Jupiter Ketu in the 8th and Mars in

the 9th house aspected from Saturan and Rahu from the 3rd.

Mars is in Moon constelation and Moon is 8th occupant from 9th , it does not

give good picture for 9th house, it is under swear malefic influnce.Though

Mars in this house joining Jupiter and Ketu (though 8th in cusp) shows

education studies in Mars period with interuptions, and interest in occult,

Mars gives high intution being in Moon constelation and being 1th lord it

gives fullfillment of desires as regards 4rth house issues through 9th.

Mars is constelation lord of 2nd 6th and rashi lord of 4rth and 11th, thus

keeping busy in job it turns you in study of vedic etc.

 

How does Rahu behave in your chart as per KP,

Rahu is constelation lord of 10th house only, but as per KP it is to behave

1st as per its associate , and them as per his constelation lord thereafter

as per his sign lord and thereafter for the planets who aspect him.

Considering for the strongest only, that is Saturan who joins him Rahu shall

interfere in the matters of asc ( Sat is sublord of ac) 7th house, he is

sublord of 7th cusp at the highest level, through 11th house and 3rd due to

2nd house resulting in Mars ( sublord of Rahu) .

Thus Rahu through his own and through Sat brought in the matters of 10th,

1st and 7th house , it actualy harms to 10th house due to its sublord

being Mars, because the constelation brought in the area for which the

planet will work but sub will decide if it will be good or bad. Rahu under

Rahu influnced you in such a way that you feel to study more and it might

have given disturbance at proffesional level.

Rahu is very confusing for even the much expert in KP , I will explain for

your understanding about Jupiter.

Jupiter is in Sun constelation and Sun is in 11th cusp and is 8th house lord

.. Its sublord is Venus in Asc. who is agin in Sun constelation in 11th.

Jupiter is with Mars and Ketu and is aspected by Saturan.

Jupiter is asc sign lord and 12th house lord and 3rd house lord in 8th.

It affects you through gains, due to loss of Self and Sun, it cause pain and

anger but give you status and new thoughts , it also give you gains due to

rent and dispoasal and inetrest etc. It indicates inheritance gains due to

loss of parents.

Rest I will write at some other time.

With Best Wishes,

Inder Jit Sahni, House No.1351-HIG, Model Town Phase-1

Bhatinda-151001 phone 0164-2211360

hanskpvedic,