RE: Saturn in 10th/Aquarius/1965 - Renee

[Guest guest]

Dear Renee,

 

First let me say I love the "firecracker"! Suits you.

Cool.

 

Okay, I'll TRY to be less longwinded than usual.

 

This whole thread started with a gentleman (whose name

STILL escapes me) who complained that his life has not

turned out as materially well as his brothers. Richard

then, in comparison, brought up his friend of the

Aquarius Saturn in 10th fame. This friend has also

complained that things don't turn out well for them.

So, in looking for possible reasons, some criticism

has been leveled toward their blunt speaking and

perhaps less than social adherence to the truth "at

all costs". It is perfectly possible that Richard has

"pointed the finger" at his friend for their personal

incompatability. And you are right, he'd be wrong in

that. But she's the one complaining about things going

wrong for her. So the point in this conversation is to

see where she may be her own worst enemy. Richard and

his relationship are his business which he will figure

out or won't, but isn't the topic.

 

Also, the topic is these individuals' personal

relationships and business relationships. Silence,

compromise, etc are being discussed in regards to a

one-on-one relationship. As in business being a

Venusian thing. Getting along GENERALLY generates more

business than not. At no time has anyone advocated

silence on global issues or adherence to "feel good"

morality in the squashing of other

cultures/countries/peoples, etc. The catatonic sheep

mentality that you abhor is abhorent, but a different

subject.

 

Yes, truth and being outspoken and to the point can be

refreshing things, but not all the time. That doesn't

make the alternative being "deceitful and delusional".

Often, "truth speakers" deliver these truths whether

they've been asked for or not. You don't want the

rabbits to try and change the zebra, but Mr. Zebra

shouldn't hound the rabbits with what the do wrong ALL

THE TIME. Truth speaking OFTEN leads to pointing out

the faults of everything. If you don't think you do

this, then I'm sorry Renee, you have just a tinge of

delusion yourself. You just don't see it. In personal

relationships, truth telling does often lead to the

comments you stated as being rude such as "gee that

dress is ugly" or "stuffing your face too much lately?

Your jeans are too tight". Both statements are

probably true. But if you didn't state them, wouldn't

you, under your own rules, be being deceitful? I know

several truth sayers who end up stating these comments

(yes, I admit it, directed to me) believing that they

are being truthful and not realizing it's rude. Not in

the heat of the moment anyway. But maybe the rabbit

didn't ask. Maybe the rabbit doesn't find this truth

refreshing. Maybe the rabbit can still remember this

same truth stated yesterday and doesn't need the

reminder.

 

I know this sounds exaggerated. But within the family

and village, truth sayers can often get caught in this

kind of excess of truth saying. That's were the blunt

mouth gets in their own way. The rabbits start to

avoid them. Yes, "we" need to learn from those with

"fixed knowledge" and Yes we probably resent them for

their outspokeness, but that doesn't change that they

have something to learn too - and it's not to be

deceitful or delusional. Perhaps they need to learn

that actions speak louder than words, or that truth

will be listened to if shared gently not given bluntly

on the head. Maybe that truth should be given when

asked, or God knows cause I don't - I'm a rabbit what

do I know. I just know that seldom is anything just

black or just white, and that everyone has something

to learn even those who know all the "truth".

 

Anyway, those are my Saturn in Capricorn in the 5th 2

cents worth (does that make it half as truthful than

if in the 10th?).

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary....you are not a wabbit (LOL)....you are a wise

owl:o)

I have a gold necklace with the name 'Buggs' that my hubby

gave me one Xmas....my nickname he gave me some years ago.

How ironic!

 

Comments below....

 

This whole thread started with a gentleman (whose name

STILL escapes me) who complained that his life has not

turned out as materially well as his brothers. Richard

then, in comparison, brought up his friend of the

Aquarius Saturn in 10th fame. This friend has also

complained that things don't turn out well for them.

 

[me]

In fairness (my primary motivation), may I add that not all

Saturn in the 10th people 'complain' and that many who

complain may have Saturn elsewhere in their chart....just to

point that out.

 

[you]

So, in looking for possible reasons, some criticism

has been leveled toward their blunt speaking and

perhaps less than social adherence to the truth "at

all costs". It is perfectly possible that Richard has

"pointed the finger" at his friend for their personal

incompatability. And you are right, he'd be wrong in

that. But she's the one complaining about things going

wrong for her.

 

[me]

Therefore it's ok for the astrologer to be critical, use her

as an example for many who have Saturn in the 10th ? It did

not seem to me to be strictly about his friend but also

about generally pointing fingers at all who have Saturn in

the 10th (possibly only in Aquarius....not sure). This is

generalizing. This is like saying that all Scorpio's are

not to be trusted or all Gemini's are airheads....see? All

black's are stupid. All Asian's are better at math then

whites.

 

[you]

Also, the topic is these individuals' personal

relationships and business relationships. Silence,

compromise, etc are being discussed in regards to a

one-on-one relationship. As in business being a

Venusian thing. Getting along GENERALLY generates more

business than not. At no time has anyone advocated

silence on global issues or adherence to "feel good"

morality in the squashing of other

cultures/countries/peoples, etc. The catatonic sheep

mentality that you abhor is abhorent, but a different

subject.

 

[me]

Agreed:o)

 

[you]

 

Yes, truth and being outspoken and to the point can be

refreshing things, but not all the time. That doesn't

make the alternative being "deceitful and delusional".

Often, "truth speakers" deliver these truths whether

they've been asked for or not.

 

[me]

But not always. Depends on the individual makeup of the

person. Maybe the 'obvious' obnoxious argumentative types

you are referring to here but there are many who hold their

principles to their hearts closely while being Venusian most

of the time depending on where Venus is in their charts I

suppose and in what aspect to other placements, what houses

she owns and so on.

 

Venus on the Asc. Jupiter and Saturn in my 10th.

 

[you]

You don't want the

rabbits to try and change the zebra, but Mr. Zebra

shouldn't hound the rabbits with what the do wrong ALL

THE TIME.

 

[me]

Only when it affects the zebra and his 'village' and family.

I believe in live and let live until it affects what I

consider to be off limits. Maybe that's the difference. My

perception was that a Saturn in 10th individual 'always'

speaks their truth bluntly irregardless of who it affects,

asked or not which is not what I think is fair. I could

care less what wabbits do unless they affect my space or

leave an impression of something that I feel needs to be

adjusted for all who may be influenced by it.

 

I dislike the 'it's ok (to say or do something about someone

else or generalizing) until it happens to me'

attitude...know what I mean?

 

[you]

Truth speaking OFTEN leads to pointing out

the faults of everything.

 

[me]

But isn't that what Richard did? Point out the faults of

Saturn in the 10th? <G>

 

[you]

If you don't think you do

this, then I'm sorry Renee, you have just a tinge of

delusion yourself. You just don't see it.

 

[me]

See....you and I do not know each other so never assume a

person does not know their own faults:o) I would not assume

that about you so I would appreciate the favor being

returned. I would disagree that one of my faults is to

'often' point out the faults of *everything*. Having

survived working in government for many years, I would have

not made it the first day there if I point out the faults of

everyone and everything wrong with government let alone

years of service. Having survived severe child abuse for

years as a child....I would be dead or in a padded cell had

I not kept my mouth shut and allowed sleeping rabbits to

sleep many times when I could have provoked much more abuse

by pointing out the faults of the abuser....not that I

didn't blow up now and then out of self defense. So

no....never assume you know another person's history.

 

I have held my tongue more times then I cared to in order to

keep the peace for all concerned be it a personal situation

or public. This does not mean that I do not speak the truth

when and where I feel it's truly appropriate.

 

[you]

In personal

relationships, truth telling does often lead to the

comments you stated as being rude such as "gee that

dress is ugly" or "stuffing your face too much lately?

Your jeans are too tight". Both statements are

probably true. But if you didn't state them, wouldn't

you, under your own rules, be being deceitful?

 

[me]

You assume you know my 'rules' and my definition of truth.

Truth to me is not concerned with a person's appearance

*unless* I feel it is potentially a problem for them in some

way or for others. If someone comes out of the bathroom at

work and has not zipped up their fly....and it's

obvious...then one would gracefully say something to them in

order to spare them embarrassment. If my spouse looks less

then perfect at any given time, has gained weight or

what-have-you but it does not affect a *goal* he has or it

does not affect his stance in the community or endangers him

in some way emotionally, psychologically etc....then I could

care less as I love the soul and not the outer package.

 

Everyone has their priorities in relationship to what truth

is important to state and what is not. If it serves no

purpose other then to hurt someone or malign a person, group

and so on unfairly (generalizations) then why say it at

all?? <G>

 

[you]

I know

several truth sayers who end up stating these comments

(yes, I admit it, directed to me) believing that they

are being truthful and not realizing it's rude. Not in

the heat of the moment anyway. But maybe the rabbit

didn't ask. Maybe the rabbit doesn't find this truth

refreshing. Maybe the rabbit can still remember this

same truth stated yesterday and doesn't need the

reminder.

 

[me]

I agree. The Saturn in the 10th rabbit may have heard this

stated yesterday too.

 

[you]

 

I know this sounds exaggerated. But within the family

and village, truth sayers can often get caught in this

kind of excess of truth saying. That's were the blunt

mouth gets in their own way. The rabbits start to

avoid them. Yes, "we" need to learn from those with

"fixed knowledge" and Yes we probably resent them for

their outspokeness, but that doesn't change that they

have something to learn too - and it's not to be

deceitful or delusional. Perhaps they need to learn

that actions speak louder than words, or that truth

will be listened to if shared gently not given bluntly

on the head. Maybe that truth should be given when

asked, or God knows cause I don't - I'm a rabbit what

do I know.

 

[me]

Maybe a sense of balance and fairness on both parts would be

a nice thing to have. Checks and balances....what is

acceptable and what is not. As far as the rabbits avoiding

extremely outspoken people....that's their choice. The

extremely outspoken people should avoid the rabbits if they

get on their nerves to the point that they spout off *all*

the time. This is an extreme.

 

[you]

I just know that seldom is anything just

black or just white, and that everyone has something

to learn even those who know all the "truth".

 

[me]

We all see a part of the entire concept of truth. In this

dualistic world of light and dark, black and white....I do

see many things as cut and dried due to my experience in the

world. I do acknowledge that there are many areas where my

book of rules is completely foreign to someone else and if

there is no way to have a meeting of the minds in order to

be heard and also to listen....then I go back to my village

of Zebra's. Peaceful co-existence is fine with me:o)

 

[you]

 

Anyway, those are my Saturn in Capricorn in the 5th 2

cents worth (does that make it half as truthful than

if in the 10th?).

 

[me]

No....it means you see the big picture from 'under the

horizon' in the 5th house. I see it from up above on the

Midheaven. You have your telescope of the sky and I have

mine. C'est la vie. In this world of should and should

not....I wonder if anyone has ever pondered the idea that

maybe wherever you have Saturn in your chart....that is what

you are meant to experience for that lifetime. Most other

people won't 'get it' because they cannot relate. So why

criticize where Saturn is at all if that is the experience

they are meant to have?

 

[you]

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

 

[me]

Merry Xmas right back atcha!!

 

Buggs

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

:

gjlist-

 

 

 

 

gjlist/

 

 

gjlist

 

Your

[Guest guest]

Oops. I AM delusional. I have Saturn in the 6th.

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Wabbit holes are awfully dark, aren't they?

 

 

Mary Quinn [mary1quinn]

Thursday, December 25, 2003 3:26 PM

gjlist

RE: [GJ] Saturn in 10th/Aquarius/1965 - Renee

 

Oops. I AM delusional. I have Saturn in the 6th.

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

:

gjlist-

 

 

 

 

gjlist/

 

 

gjlist

 

Your

[Guest guest]

Dear Renee,

 

Being a 1963 baby, I was born in the Chinese Year of

the Rabbit! And every time I delude myself into

thinking I'm an owl, the sun comes up and I discover

I'm a Wabbit sitting in a tree...

 

Yes, you are right it's all about balance. Some people

have it, some don't. Some complain, some don't. Some

critisize, some don't. Some everything, some don't.

Generalization, sadly, sometimes comes from a lack of

time to type out EXACTLY what you mean. Sometimes it's

from ignorance. So I guess one is left with

delineating each individual's chart. Sometimes,

though, the temptation is great when you find a larger

than usual (perhaps) group of people exhibiting the

same trait that have, say, Saturn in Aquarius in the

10th. And sometimes we are in a worse mood than others

and we are harsher than normal, more critical, say.

You are right in that I should not assume your

personal history. I meant to repeat what you had said

yourself without including the bulk of your e-mail (to

save space). Sorry if I got it wrong. By that same

token, we can neither of us assume anything about

Richard's history either.

 

In fact, I'll just climb down from this tree seeing

that a wabbit in a tree is a rather ridiculous

sight...

 

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Hey...my daughter is a fire wabbit!!

 

I hear ya, Mary and I agree:o) You should hang out in trees

more often...

 

Happy New Year....

 

Renee

 

 

Mary Quinn [mary1quinn]

Friday, December 26, 2003 4:19 PM

gjlist

RE: [GJ] Saturn in 10th/Aquarius/1965 - Renee

 

Dear Renee,

 

Being a 1963 baby, I was born in the Chinese Year of

the Rabbit! And every time I delude myself into

thinking I'm an owl, the sun comes up and I discover

I'm a Wabbit sitting in a tree...

 

Yes, you are right it's all about balance. Some people

have it, some don't. Some complain, some don't. Some

critisize, some don't. Some everything, some don't.

Generalization, sadly, sometimes comes from a lack of

time to type out EXACTLY what you mean. Sometimes it's

from ignorance. So I guess one is left with

delineating each individual's chart. Sometimes,

though, the temptation is great when you find a larger

than usual (perhaps) group of people exhibiting the

same trait that have, say, Saturn in Aquarius in the

10th. And sometimes we are in a worse mood than others

and we are harsher than normal, more critical, say.

You are right in that I should not assume your

personal history. I meant to repeat what you had said

yourself without including the bulk of your e-mail (to

save space). Sorry if I got it wrong. By that same

token, we can neither of us assume anything about

Richard's history either.

 

In fact, I'll just climb down from this tree seeing

that a wabbit in a tree is a rather ridiculous

sight...

 

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

:

gjlist-

 

 

 

 

gjlist/

 

 

gjlist

 

Your