Fate and Free Will

[Guest guest]

I am a devotee associated with ISKCON. While I do believe that our past

karma is certainly active and we enjoy or suffer according to that but that

everything is planned in our life seems unagreeable. I heard one devotee

running away with another's wife and saying that it was due to his venus

period. Can you please clarify?

 

--------------

 

It is Simultaneous Oneness and Difference, and also, Sri Krishna says in

Gita that he is in all things yet not, that he controls all yet not, and so

on... it's a great mystery to the mind generally, as Caitanya said, it is

Acintya, but I find it can be somewhat grasped.

 

There is only one huge divine truth, or God, and all is one, and we are meer

specs in the waves of that huge oneness. We are tossed by the waves, like

for example, when the Hurricane hits the Eastern Coast of the US, NOBODY

whether Krishna or Christian is saved from the rain, the wind, the

effects... they are felt by all. This is a gross example of being "in" a

larger system.

 

But the bodies we are born in, they have totally pre-wired genetic

preferences. We THINK we are making choices, but are we REALLY?

 

Guys liking girls- that's purely genetic. Guys ALWAYS hunt girls, to plant

seeds inside them. It's an automatic response for the body. It's a "no

brainer".

 

But actually, if you think carefully, ALL THINGS are like this. You have to

think deeply. You'll see that ALL things are auto-choices.

 

But this doesn't matter, because, as the WITNESS inside the body, we still

EXPERIENICE ALL THINGS as if we are the doers, as if we are the choozers,

and we suffer and enjoy accordingly. But all of this is meant to be or not.

 

To realize this is also preplanned. In other words, our date of graduation

is planned. That is why Saints have saintly charts, and sinners have sinful

charts. This is why astrology is really a secret science. To really realize

the truth about it is rare, and to be actually good at it is rare.

 

When one realizes that they are a spark of life within God, a part of God,

and that all is God, mundane life becomes unworthy due to implicit reactions

connected to everything, and this makes it easier to sit still for long

periods, to fast, to pray, to be a yogi, to preach, etc. It is easy then.

And it is easy to be detached from all lusty things, including sex life,

which is easier than eating, which is why one finds fat Sannyasis who have

no sex, but who overeat. Aging, and realization, aid in detachment.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

As for blaming wife stealing on Venus dasha: It's true that Venus dasha

increases the Venus streak in a person. This can be unfortunate, if the

placements allow it to be. Venus is the root of lust, etc. One will have to

have other placements in a chart to be with anothers wife though. Half the

people on Earth will run a Venus dasha in their life, and not all of them

will do that action. Those who have certain other placements will however.

 

Blaming goes away when one is enlightened. An elevated person never blames

anyone. But this is not practical in closely knit societies sometimes, and

their the kshatriyas will enforce rules which the sages would overlook, as

Draupadi forgave the killer of her sons.

 

The truth is more complex than most devotees are used to thinking it is. In

the movement, we were not taught about predeterminism. Like Christianity, we

were used to thinking that we could change ourselves freely if we willed it

strong enough, worked hard enough, etc., but then, why doesn't everyone look

excellent, fit, sexy, and why isn't everyone therefore RICH!?

 

Certainly everyone wants those things. Wants to be pure devotees too... but

we CAN'T !

 

Why?

 

It's not in the karma, and it's not so easy. Just by wanting, and even

trying, one cannot have whatever one wants. That is a lie that is going

around in society. But it's a lie still.

 

But also astrology should not be used to say "I am limited". So like all

things around the absolutely highest truths, it's a razors edge to walk.

 

We should be forgiving and giving to others, as in "Oh Prabhu, it's not in

your karma, don't trouble yourself, it's OK that you are less than great,

you've done your best, accept and love yourself like we do already, you are

good the way you are, accept yourself, don't try so hard to be something

you're not, you're OK"

 

And with ourselves: "Let me just keep trying, to put one foot before the

other, to achieve my goals, my highest best self...."

 

So hard on self, lenient on others, is a good policy, but not TOO hard on

self, only a little hard.

 

It's a fine line. We want HEALTHY people, self and others. HEALTHY. So with

love and gentleness we push on.

 

Forgive my errors.

 

Your brother,

 

 

Das Goravani, President

 

2852 Willamette St, #353

Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America

Voice: or in America

 

 

http://www.DancingMoonInc.com

[Guest guest]

>>Das Sayeth:

 

There is only one huge divine truth, or God, and all is one, and we are meer

specs in the waves of that huge oneness. We are tossed by the waves, like

for example, when the Hurricane hits the Eastern Coast of the US, NOBODY

whether Krishna or Christian is saved from the rain, the wind, the

effects... they are felt by all. This is a gross example of being "in" a

larger system.

 

>>And I Reply:

Yes, it is true that we all are affected by certain phenomena, man and beast

alike,

but this is part of a Divine Plan. It is the tapestry, the interwoven

threads of all

the life about us, and the forces about us that interweave to play out this

plan. And

the "system" is more of a wide road, with curbs on the side, rather than a

thread of existence.

We envision the thread because we only travel along a narrow part of that

wide road.

 

>>Das Sayeth:

 

But the bodies we are born in, they have totally pre-wired genetic

preferences. We THINK we are making choices, but are we REALLY?

 

Guys liking girls- that's purely genetic. Guys ALWAYS hunt girls, to plant

seeds inside them. It's an automatic response for the body. It's a "no

brainer".

 

>>And I Reply,

While many responses are "pre-wired" many more others are not. The

behaviors of an urban man

in a "tough" part of town are completely different than a suburban man in a

safe part of town.

Just backfire a car near them both to see the difference, but the suburban

man can learn the responses

of the urban man, and vice versa. Just ask anyone who was in combat. And

ask their spouse or

parent the first time they tried to shake them awake.

 

As to guys always hunting girls.... sorry, there are many, many guys who

don't. They may be

homosexual (and there is a body of knowledge that says that sexual

preference is determined by

endocrine production in the mother, but it is controversial, perhaps because

of the political/

religious disruption that would result were it proved), or neuter (either

emotionally or physically).

So this behavior isn't really wired in.

 

>>Das sayeth:

 

But actually, if you think carefully, ALL THINGS are like this. You have to

think deeply. You'll see that ALL things are auto-choices.

 

But this doesn't matter, because, as the WITNESS inside the body, we still

EXPERIENICE ALL THINGS as if we are the doers, as if we are the choozers,

and we suffer and enjoy accordingly. But all of this is meant to be or not.

 

>>And I respond:

Yes, but look at it this way. If the correct path, the divined path, is a

line drawn on

the highway of our temporal stay, we can still wander over towards the curbs

of the path. Now

in doing so, we may find rocks that bounce off us, or broken glass, or even

occasionally run into

another traveler that intersects our "road". All of these interactions

teach us lessons. And

it is these lessons that adjust our karmic load, how we handle them

determines what we have to

bear from them. In some cases, the line causes us to intersect deliberately

with obstacles, is this

some kind of cosmic retribution, no, just a lesson we have to learn to free

us from some of our

karmic burden, to teach others how to deal with or lighten their burden. In

the end, we can go

with the plan, or not, but like a road, we can go only so far astray of the

plan, and only in a

forward direction to the culmination of this life. It is our ego that

steers.

 

>>Das sayeth:

 

To realize this is also preplanned. In other words, our date of graduation

is planned. That is why Saints have saintly charts, and sinners have sinful

charts. This is why astrology is really a secret science. To really realize

the truth about it is rare, and to be actually good at it is rare.

 

When one realizes that they are a spark of life within God, a part of God,

and that all is God, mundane life becomes unworthy due to implicit reactions

connected to everything, and this makes it easier to sit still for long

periods, to fast, to pray, to be a yogi, to preach, etc. It is easy then.

And it is easy to be detached from all lusty things, including sex life,

which is easier than eating, which is why one finds fat Sannyasis who have

no sex, but who overeat. Aging, and realization, aid in detachment.

 

>>And I respond:

Yes, it is the spark of God that propels us along our existence, it is the

ego

that steers the faltering course along that road, and it is our repetition

of the

trip that teaches us how to find and follow the path, thus enlightening us

to

the divine (or deva-ine) path that frees us from its lessons. As one begins

to find

the path in the midst of the road, one becomes less worried about the rocks

and pits

along the road that you will not encounter. One finds the lessons that the

path teaches

more and more enlightening. We stop looking at the highway, and spend more

time looking

at the sky. This is our detachment in a sense. It is more like a

re-attachment to the

parts of existence that really matter. Thus a transformation not a

destruction.

 

>>Das sayeth:

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

As for blaming wife stealing on Venus dasha: It's true that Venus dasha

increases the Venus streak in a person. This can be unfortunate, if the

placements allow it to be. Venus is the root of lust, etc. One will have to

have other placements in a chart to be with anothers wife though. Half the

people on Earth will run a Venus dasha in their life, and not all of them

will do that action. Those who have certain other placements will however.

 

Blaming goes away when one is enlightened. An elevated person never blames

anyone. But this is not practical in closely knit societies sometimes, and

their the kshatriyas will enforce rules which the sages would overlook, as

Draupadi forgave the killer of her sons.

 

>>And I respond:

Aha! As an ego, we always have to find a cause. Perhaps there is no cause.

Perhaps there are many causes. Perhaps there is blame to be had, and

perhaps

not. If we go back to the beginning of this missive, examine a man who

stands

at the edge of the ocean, during a storm. The wind and the rain and the

waves

lash at him. Is there a cause? Perhaps it is an upper air disturbance,

perhaps

it is because he chose to stand there. Perhaps, he needed to feel the force

of

nature as an unreachable force. Perhaps all, perhaps none. In any case, he

is

still wet. In any case, he is still windblown. He can shout against the

storm

and wave his arms, but he will still be wet, and still be windblown. He can

smile

at the storm, knowing what it is and that it serves its purposes. Either

can happen

or both. Which is "right" and which is "wrong"? And, if he wishes, he can

turn his

back to the storm and seek the shelter of the beach.

 

>>Das sayeth:

 

The truth is more complex than most devotees are used to thinking it is. In

the movement, we were not taught about predeterminism. Like Christianity, we

were used to thinking that we could change ourselves freely if we willed it

strong enough, worked hard enough, etc., but then, why doesn't everyone look

excellent, fit, sexy, and why isn't everyone therefore RICH!?

 

Certainly everyone wants those things. Wants to be pure devotees too... but

we CAN'T !

 

Why?

 

It's not in the karma, and it's not so easy. Just by wanting, and even

trying, one cannot have whatever one wants. That is a lie that is going

around in society. But it's a lie still.

 

>>And I respond:

Yes, we can want (visualize, actualize, choose your phrase there are many of

them) but

that does not mean we can have it. Stand in front of a mirror, every day

for the next

ten years and tell yourself you want to be 10 feet tall. Picture yourself

as being 10

feet tall and, lo and behold, at the end of 10 years YOU WILL BE SHORTER

THAN YOU ARE NOW

(sorry, it happens with age and to all of us). Being 10 feet tall is not

part of your

road of life. And to be sad, upset, or depressed over it is the same as

wishing you were

born in a different country. It won't happen. The best you can do is hit

the "curb" of

your life's road.

 

>>Das sayeth:

 

But also astrology should not be used to say "I am limited". So like all

things around the absolutely highest truths, it's a razors edge to walk.

 

We should be forgiving and giving to others, as in "Oh Prabhu, it's not in

your karma, don't trouble yourself, it's OK that you are less than great,

you've done your best, accept and love yourself like we do already, you are

good the way you are, accept yourself, don't try so hard to be something

you're not, you're OK"

 

And with ourselves: "Let me just keep trying, to put one foot before the

other, to achieve my goals, my highest best self...."

 

So hard on self, lenient on others, is a good policy, but not TOO hard on

self, only a little hard.

 

It's a fine line. We want HEALTHY people, self and others. HEALTHY. So with

love and gentleness we push on.

 

Forgive my errors.

 

>>And I respond:

 

There are remarkably few, my brother. We are all who we are, and we all

have a bit

of the divine within us. That is why we are attracted to each other. When

we realize

that we have a road to follow, and that that road will teach us lessons,

depending on how

well we follow the plan for us, the healthier and happier we all will be.

Such a

simple answer, so complex to implement.

 

Amazing how following different paths, we come to the same wayside.....

 

Be at peace

John M.