Free Will & Determinism....8/8 from Mark K.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends:

 

I love these conversations related to free will and determinism.

 

I was a Philosophy and Education major in College and remember many

conversations

on the subject.

 

But, until I learned Jyotish, I never received a very satisfying

understanding

about the whole thing.

 

To me, today, determinism...is very clearly expressed and lived by Saturn.

 

Saturn gives us the effects of our actions, lessons, hard ships, re-actions

due to imbalances, our griefs, losses...and on and on,

actually, positve effects too... but all, 'karmic'....

 

We all sense that there is something inevitable about the whole thing.

 

But, then we think: 'But, I believe in free will, too!'

 

But, the two concepts or realities seem too opposite to be true.

 

Though, now, I understand that Jupiter stands for Freedom.

 

And you'll hear in the thoughts, and energys, expressed, by really any

dynamic person

that they, live freedom and also believe in it!

 

I remember coming across this wonderful passage, quote of Yogananda,

famous Indian Yogi, who said he liked

Astrology but not the predominance of fate or determinism.

 

He said: 'Find me the worse day in this up-coming year, and on that day, I

will

accomplish anything!'

 

And I got such a charge out of that.

 

To me this is the 'Consciousness' aspect to Jyotish.

 

Sure, there's fate, but there's also freedom.

 

And the closer we get to 'Pure Consciousness'...which is a completely,

uncreated, unbounded,

eternal field of Consciousness....

we may then be able to exhibit ...freedom!

 

I remember one time, listening to a discourse by his Holiness Maharishi

Mahesh Yogi,

and he was asked, 'Maharishi, I don't understand. Which is it? Are we free

or bound?'

 

And the Maharishi said: (With a twinkle, in his eye, by the way...)

 

"Both!"

 

 

And that really strikes a cord in me today.

 

Because I see that in people's charts...

 

Strong Jupiter and the person believes in freedom, has a high degree of kick

butt,

hehehe, transformative power!

 

Then, in the Saturn dominated people you can see, they feel more stuck and

controlled,

fated, especially if their Saturn's are weak.

 

Then, there are those individuals who seem to have good Jupiters and good

Saturns...

and they seem to exhibit...

the best kind of integration between transformative, freedom, power, and

Saturn

understanding

of lawfulness, and orderliness...of karma.

 

Let's all resolve to develop both powers...!

 

And find ourselves co-creators with God... who has infinite power

and infinite...time to manifest.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

I have a website: called which I wanted to invite people to

enjoy

 

http://hometown.aol.com//myhomepage/index.html

 

and also a daily Jyotish/ Transits Newsletter which I send out each day...

related to just what the Sun and Planets are doing...

 

Feel 'free', hehe,....to Contact me at m.kincaid

 

to sign up for this free daily!

 

 

I find it so helpful, Saturn strengthening...to be able to know what the

Cosmos

will be doing in the future!

 

And then, to be able to learn to adjust so that we are more in-tune with

that...

I think, Strengthens, too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Das' / Roik's Teaching on Vedic Free Will/Destiny

 

Very good,

Thanks,

Anna

-

"Das Goravani" <>

<gjlist>

Friday, August 08, 2003 6:18 PM

[GJ] Vedic Teachings on Free Will/Destiny

 

 

>

>

> Often in Vedic lore we hear hints of free will.

>

> For example, when Dronacarya is teaching the Pandavas how to fight, he

tells

> them to aim carefully. He goes into a long story of how one should focus

> their attention only on their target, eliminating all other thoughts, see

> ONLY the exact target, not anything else on the battlefield, and then

fire.

>

> The emphasis is STRONGLY placed on that mental focus.

>

> In Druidic training, the same applies. One is taught to absolutely believe

> in something so strongly that nature bends to manifest the thought.

>

> The Druids and Yogis alike used this technique. It sure sounds like free

> will. It's all about willing, believing, and focusing.

>

> Then, frequently in both we hear of destiny. We hear of how strong,

> infallible, destiny is.

>

> The thing seems to be that both are always true. The Druid or Brahmin,

using

> mental focus to co-create, is acting inside of nature, is born of nature,

> made to do that, just as Indra is made to rule the heaves and rains.

>

> But that Druid, Brahmin and Indra feel every bit of the austerities they

> performed to get to their difficult-to-achieve positions of perfection,

and

> they feel every bit of the exertions they perform to carry out their

magic.

>

> I met Dean Kraft. He can move things with his mind. He can heal people

with

> his hands. It's a focusing he does. It's very exausting to him, or his

body.

> It's meant to be. It appears to be him. It's not him. It taxes him, but he

> is not his body.

>

> We are playing in duality.

>

> Holding onto higher conceptions, despite odds, is the way to win in the

> game.

>

> The more you know, the bigger the field you play inside, the more spirits

> who will test you, the more your ancestors watch, the more othes watch,

the

> more you watch, the stakes get greater.

>

> The farmer who feels his crops won't grow sits idle while the weeds grow

and

> he laments and starves to death. The one who believes he can grow crops

gets

> busy tilling his fields. The belief is part of the manifesting. It doesn't

> matter which comes first, free will or destiny, but for something to

appear,

> action, or sacrifice, must take place. The bigger the magic, the greater

the

> sacrifice.

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to