Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Dear ash, It is really a mystery as to why such a great scholar like B.V.Raman used a wrong ayanamsa.It is obviously wrong. The bigger mystery is why he did not correct it through experience. Raman's ayanamsa makes a difference of close to 2 years in vimshottari dasha in my chart.Events certainly do not justify this. vivek. On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 ashsam73 wrote : >Dear Sanjayji and list members, > >Are you or anyone aware of the reason why Dr. B.V. Raman chose >or >used this ayanamsa he is called Ramans or which is about 1 degree >and >some mins less than Lahiri ? > >There must have been some reason for such a great scholar to >have >used this or come up with this. From what I am aware Dr. came >up >with this ayansma after lots of years of research. > >Thanking you, >Cheers !!! >Ash > > >gjlist, "Sanjay Rath" <daivagyna@s...> >wrote: > > > > > > Om Sri Gurave namah > > Dear Nicholas > > With Mercury exalted in the third from Arudha Lagna, he has >become >very > > spiritual I hear. Some tols that he listens to Vishnu >sahasranama >everyday . > > proves the point about spirituality with exalted benefic in >the >third or > > sixth from AL. > > Manoj, I did not know about the ayanamsa issue. Perhaps people >had >been > > coloring me with different stories. If that is the point, then >let >me make > > it clear that even I don't follow it and have never agreed >with >that weird > > ayanamsa. It's way off the mark. What I was told was >something >about books > > and course materials. Anyway numbers don't count in deciding >and as >far as > > the world stage is concerned, Dr Raman still holds the sway. >So in >material > > (sansara terms) it is a different story, although I wonder >if >Jupiter > > antardasa has started for K N Rao as this is what I am waiting >to >see and > > judge the results of Jupiter. Prima facie, I think Guru will >give >the > > results of Pisces as this is the sign it aspects...remember >my >quote about > > Chandra Kala nadi. > > With best regards, > > Sanjay Rath > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > Webpages: http://srath.com > > ---- > > > > gjlist > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:14:55 PM > > gjlist > > [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ Sanjay >clarification > > > > Dear Sanjay > > I thought K N Rao became the most famous vedic astrologer in >the >world when > > Professor Raman's health declined . > > Nicholas > > > > - > > Sanjay Rath > > gjlist > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:00 PM > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > ~OM~ > > Dear Vivek, > > > > Karma really cannot be dissociated with the events in such a >manner, but > > prima facie, you are right in your thinking. I will give an >illustration of > > my point. > > Take the sixth house: Natural good (what people call benefic, >but >actually > > Subha like Jupiter, Ketu, Vemus, Mercury and Moon) planets >placed >there > > indicate one who shall be freed from the troubles of the >sixth >house by the > > deity indicated by the planet. All 'Agantuka drista' >roga/satru >shall vanish > > at the smile of such a strong and good planet. > > However, an exactly similar situation occuring from AL is the >most >terrible. > > If the planet in the sixth from AL or its lord is a natural >benefic >and is > > strong, then the native is tormented by enemies. > > Here, both the situations are karmic as they indicate the >manifestation of > > karma but the analysis of the result is exactly the >opposite. > > > > Another example: Chandra kala nadi says that for Libra lagna >native, the > > great blessing is the strength of exalted Jupiter as the >enemies >will flee > > like elephants running from a battlefield. Now, if Libra is >the >Arudha Lagna > > then the exactly opposite situation would arise if the sixth >lord >were > > exalted. This may seem easy to understand, but in application, >this >is the > > key to Raj-jyotish. > > > > Take the chart of K N Rao for example. He has Libra Lagna >with >Venus in it > > and Jupiter in the 10th house in exaltation and Mercury in the >12th >house in > > exaltation. From the Lagna, the sixth lord Jupiter is exalted >and >this may > > seem fantastic, but look at it from Arudha Lagna. The AL is >in >Cancer with > > the sixth lord Jupiter in exaltation. Thus, Jupiter has the >power >to destroy > > all enemies (as lord of Pisces) or to destroy him and >promote >enemies (as > > lord of Sagittarius)....how would you decide what Jupiter is >going >to do? > > Mercury is going to teach him the spiritual way and in >exaltation >in third > > from AL gives pravrajya in the positive sense and defeat in >the >battle of > > sansara in the material sense. His differences with B V >Raman >started in > > Mercury dasa. The end result was a forgone conclusion as >during the >dasa of > > a natural benefic (subha, good) planet exalted in the 3rd or >6th > from AL, it > > is foolish to fight with anyone as the native is surely >defeated. > > > > With best wishes, > > Sanjay Rath > > ------------------------ > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > +91-674-2436871; > > Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > ------------------ > > ---- > > > > gjlist > > Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:48:23 PM > > gjlist > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > Dear sanjay, > > I agree with you. > > My understanding is that Natal chart being karmic position >at > > birth,it shows the KARMIC side --- that is a house in the >chart > > will show things from a karmic angle,the matters of that >house. > > Whereas the arudha pada of that house will show it from the >EVENT > > angle. > > Perceptions differ to such an extent that the same event can >cause > > either joy or suffering. > > For example:- Death of a spouse.Externally it may be seen that >the > > person is mourning but the person may actually be rejoicing! > > If rejoicing is the case,it could be the result of good past > > karma. > > So it is basically KARMIC ANGLE V/S EVENT ANGLE. > > Am I right? > > Best regards, > > vivek. > > > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 Sanjay Rath wrote : > > > > > > > > >~OM~ > > >Dear Vivek > > >I remember a famous quote > > >"Cowards die many times but the brave taste of death but > > >once"...so you will > > >agree that the perception of death (mrityu) or near death > > >(apa-mrityu) will > > >vary from one chart to another. So even in death, perception >and > > >reality > > >differ. > > >For how many years have we speculated whether the great >Subhash > > >Chandra Bose > > >is actually dead? For how many years do we wonder on how > > >Chaitanya > > >Mahaprabhu left this world. He just walked into the idol of > > >Jagannath!! can > > >you perceive or imagine this. > > >Even in death, an event, perceptions differ. When someone >dies, > > >most lament, > > >some enemies delight, and most don't care. The reality is >the > > >same for all > > >yet the perception is different. > > >This is not an easy topic and most people avoid it. But it >is > > >worth thinking > > >as no one can give a perfect answer...after all who knows >Satya > > >or the > > >perfect truth, what we all understand is half truths. > > >With best wishes, > > >Sanjay Rath > > >------------------------ > > >H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > >+91-674-2436871; > > >Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > >------------------ > > >---- > > > > > > gjlist > > >Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:15:41 PM > > >gjlist > > >Re: Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > >Hello Robert and Anna, > > >Perception and reality cannot be different in some >cases.Length > > >of > > >life for example. > > >I wish I could get an exact definition of AL. > > >I recollect a statement I saw while searching on the net >for > > >Arudha lagna:- "When ketu transits the trines of arudha > > >lagna,he > > >gives moksha-gati" > > >So what is the significance of the trines of AL? > > > > > >On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 N. wrote : > > > >Dear Robert, > > > > > > > >I understand your questions- I have lots of them, too: re >ALs > > >and > > > >D charts, length of year /360 vs. 365/, numerous Dasa > > >systems, > > > >let alone various ayanamsas, etc. > > > >As you know there is no answer to these questions. Lots >of > > > >Jyotish concepts, from various schools, and from >'integrative > > > >approach' of SJC as well /that you also represent/, or due >to > > > >the fact that it is 'eclectic' in nature even more so, do >not > > > >provide firm theoretical frame. And in most jyotish >concepts > > >we > > > >depend on /justified/ trust in Parashara and Jaimini- even >if > > >we > > > >are unable to formulate 'logical' explanation /at least >at > > >the > > > >moment, at least in theory/ for some of their statements. > > > > > > > >So, why do you think that I am supposed to provide > > >theoretical > > > >framework for Arudha Lagnas - or any other- concept /in >this > > > >particular case/ when, as far as I know, neither you nor > > >others, > > > >who use them, haven't done so far? In fact in my attempt >to > > > >explain ALs to Vivek I did make some guesses, as they >appeared > > >to > > > >me. How long/if I will use them in the future, depends on > > >results > > > >I'd have with them. You obviously use them, and that >means > > >that > > > >you've found them 'workable'- I've seen your and Narsimha > > > >discussion on predicting the death from AL analysis- so >you > > > >should be better able to give the answer to the question > > >bellow- > > > >if it's not only rhetorical, as, sorry Robert, it appears >to > > > >me. > > > > > > > >Plese read my post again- and you'll find an attempt to > > >formulate > > > >what ALs stand for, and therefore meaning of 'real' >'reality' > > > >truth' are more descriptive that defining- Failure to >notice > > >that > > > >leads to argument for the sake of argument, and is not >worth > > > >attention/time. > > > >If you have better explanation, we all would benefit from > > >your > > > >sharing, and I would appreciate that very much, too. > > > > > > > >In other words, I am itching to hear from you 'how real >is > > >real' > > > >and get well rounded definition of ALs- that would >contribute > > >to > > > >our knowledge a lot. > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert A. Koch > > > > gjlist > > > > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:08 PM > > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ann and Vivek, > > > > > > > > Interesting discussion re: Arudha lagna. May I pose a > > > >question here? Anna, you state that the lagna and AL both > > >stand > > > >for real things, and your position re: AL in that regard >is > > > >well-taken. Accepting this, then, the next most logical > > >question > > > >would be: > > > > > > > > 1. The karaka for the lagna (i.e. truth/reality) is the >Sun. > > > >There are no controversies here. > > > > 2. If that is the case, then what would be the karaka >for > > > >the Arudha lagna if, as you say, it also stands for > > >truth/reality > > > >(in your opinion)? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > > > > Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA > > > > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, > > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or > > > > Ph: 541.318.0248 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > : > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms >of > > > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : >gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : >gjlist- > > > > > > > > Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : >gjlist- > > > > > > > > Terms of >Service. > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Dear Vivek, I thought Dr. B.V Raman came to this new ayanamsa at a much later stage in his life, even after he had written books using Lahiri I believe. There must have been some other reason that we are all unaware of that would have lead to such a change despite writing books with a diff ayanamsa. Such a learned person despite knowing that there would be anomalies in his works i.e. earlier books with a different ayanamsa and later books with Ramans ayanamsa despite that fact he still came up with this ayanamsa that was quite different and stuck by it. So this leads me to beleive that there must be a stong driving factor whatever that was. I just have a feeling that there is more to it and I may be wrong.... cause common sense dictates that no one just wakes up one day and changes everything that have worked on all their lives and changes it just like that ... lol... Cheers !!! Ash gjlist, "Vivek " <keviv90@r...> wrote: > Dear ash, > It is really a mystery as to why such a great scholar like > B.V.Raman used a wrong ayanamsa.It is obviously wrong. > The bigger mystery is why he did not correct it through > experience. > Raman's ayanamsa makes a difference of close to 2 years in > vimshottari dasha in my chart.Events certainly do not justify > this. > vivek. > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 ashsam73 wrote : > >Dear Sanjayji and list members, > > > >Are you or anyone aware of the reason why Dr. B.V. Raman chose > >or > >used this ayanamsa he is called Ramans or which is about 1 degree > >and > >some mins less than Lahiri ? > > > >There must have been some reason for such a great scholar to > >have > >used this or come up with this. From what I am aware Dr. came > >up > >with this ayansma after lots of years of research. > > > >Thanking you, > >Cheers !!! > >Ash > > > > > >gjlist, "Sanjay Rath" <daivagyna@s...> > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Sri Gurave namah > > > Dear Nicholas > > > With Mercury exalted in the third from Arudha Lagna, he has > >become > >very > > > spiritual I hear. Some tols that he listens to Vishnu > >sahasranama > >everyday . > > > proves the point about spirituality with exalted benefic in > >the > >third or > > > sixth from AL. > > > Manoj, I did not know about the ayanamsa issue. Perhaps people > >had > >been > > > coloring me with different stories. If that is the point, then > >let > >me make > > > it clear that even I don't follow it and have never agreed > >with > >that weird > > > ayanamsa. It's way off the mark. What I was told was > >something > >about books > > > and course materials. Anyway numbers don't count in deciding > >and as > >far as > > > the world stage is concerned, Dr Raman still holds the sway. > >So in > >material > > > (sansara terms) it is a different story, although I wonder > >if > >Jupiter > > > antardasa has started for K N Rao as this is what I am waiting > >to > >see and > > > judge the results of Jupiter. Prima facie, I think Guru will > >give > >the > > > results of Pisces as this is the sign it aspects...remember > >my > >quote about > > > Chandra Kala nadi. > > > With best regards, > > > Sanjay Rath > > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > Webpages: http://srath.com > > > ---- > > > > > > gjlist > > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:14:55 PM > > > gjlist > > > [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ Sanjay > >clarification > > > > > > Dear Sanjay > > > I thought K N Rao became the most famous vedic astrologer in > >the > >world when > > > Professor Raman's health declined . > > > Nicholas > > > > > > - > > > Sanjay Rath > > > gjlist > > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:00 PM > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~OM~ > > > Dear Vivek, > > > > > > Karma really cannot be dissociated with the events in such a > >manner, but > > > prima facie, you are right in your thinking. I will give an > >illustration of > > > my point. > > > Take the sixth house: Natural good (what people call benefic, > >but > >actually > > > Subha like Jupiter, Ketu, Vemus, Mercury and Moon) planets > >placed > >there > > > indicate one who shall be freed from the troubles of the > >sixth > >house by the > > > deity indicated by the planet. All 'Agantuka drista' > >roga/satru > >shall vanish > > > at the smile of such a strong and good planet. > > > However, an exactly similar situation occuring from AL is the > >most > >terrible. > > > If the planet in the sixth from AL or its lord is a natural > >benefic > >and is > > > strong, then the native is tormented by enemies. > > > Here, both the situations are karmic as they indicate the > >manifestation of > > > karma but the analysis of the result is exactly the > >opposite. > > > > > > Another example: Chandra kala nadi says that for Libra lagna > >native, the > > > great blessing is the strength of exalted Jupiter as the > >enemies > >will flee > > > like elephants running from a battlefield. Now, if Libra is > >the > >Arudha Lagna > > > then the exactly opposite situation would arise if the sixth > >lord > >were > > > exalted. This may seem easy to understand, but in application, > >this > >is the > > > key to Raj-jyotish. > > > > > > Take the chart of K N Rao for example. He has Libra Lagna > >with > >Venus in it > > > and Jupiter in the 10th house in exaltation and Mercury in the > >12th > >house in > > > exaltation. From the Lagna, the sixth lord Jupiter is exalted > >and > >this may > > > seem fantastic, but look at it from Arudha Lagna. The AL is > >in > >Cancer with > > > the sixth lord Jupiter in exaltation. Thus, Jupiter has the > >power > >to destroy > > > all enemies (as lord of Pisces) or to destroy him and > >promote > >enemies (as > > > lord of Sagittarius)....how would you decide what Jupiter is > >going > >to do? > > > Mercury is going to teach him the spiritual way and in > >exaltation > >in third > > > from AL gives pravrajya in the positive sense and defeat in > >the > >battle of > > > sansara in the material sense. His differences with B V > >Raman > >started in > > > Mercury dasa. The end result was a forgone conclusion as > >during the > >dasa of > > > a natural benefic (subha, good) planet exalted in the 3rd or > >6th > > from AL, it > > > is foolish to fight with anyone as the native is surely > >defeated. > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > Sanjay Rath > > > ------------------------ > > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > +91-674-2436871; > > > Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > > ------------------ > > > ---- > > > > > > gjlist > > > Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:48:23 PM > > > gjlist > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > Dear sanjay, > > > I agree with you. > > > My understanding is that Natal chart being karmic position > >at > > > birth,it shows the KARMIC side --- that is a house in the > >chart > > > will show things from a karmic angle,the matters of that > >house. > > > Whereas the arudha pada of that house will show it from the > >EVENT > > > angle. > > > Perceptions differ to such an extent that the same event can > >cause > > > either joy or suffering. > > > For example:- Death of a spouse.Externally it may be seen that > >the > > > person is mourning but the person may actually be rejoicing! > > > If rejoicing is the case,it could be the result of good past > > > karma. > > > So it is basically KARMIC ANGLE V/S EVENT ANGLE. > > > Am I right? > > > Best regards, > > > vivek. > > > > > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 Sanjay Rath wrote : > > > > > > > > > > > >~OM~ > > > >Dear Vivek > > > >I remember a famous quote > > > >"Cowards die many times but the brave taste of death but > > > >once"...so you will > > > >agree that the perception of death (mrityu) or near death > > > >(apa-mrityu) will > > > >vary from one chart to another. So even in death, perception > >and > > > >reality > > > >differ. > > > >For how many years have we speculated whether the great > >Subhash > > > >Chandra Bose > > > >is actually dead? For how many years do we wonder on how > > > >Chaitanya > > > >Mahaprabhu left this world. He just walked into the idol of > > > >Jagannath!! can > > > >you perceive or imagine this. > > > >Even in death, an event, perceptions differ. When someone > >dies, > > > >most lament, > > > >some enemies delight, and most don't care. The reality is > >the > > > >same for all > > > >yet the perception is different. > > > >This is not an easy topic and most people avoid it. But it > >is > > > >worth thinking > > > >as no one can give a perfect answer...after all who knows > >Satya > > > >or the > > > >perfect truth, what we all understand is half truths. > > > >With best wishes, > > > >Sanjay Rath > > > >------------------------ > > > >H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > >+91-674-2436871; > > > >Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > > >------------------ > > > >---- > > > > > > > > gjlist > > > >Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:15:41 PM > > > >gjlist > > > >Re: Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > >Hello Robert and Anna, > > > >Perception and reality cannot be different in some > >cases.Length > > > >of > > > >life for example. > > > >I wish I could get an exact definition of AL. > > > >I recollect a statement I saw while searching on the net > >for > > > >Arudha lagna:- "When ketu transits the trines of arudha > > > >lagna,he > > > >gives moksha-gati" > > > >So what is the significance of the trines of AL? > > > > > > > >On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 N. wrote : > > > > >Dear Robert, > > > > > > > > > >I understand your questions- I have lots of them, too: re > >ALs > > > >and > > > > >D charts, length of year /360 vs. 365/, numerous Dasa > > > >systems, > > > > >let alone various ayanamsas, etc. > > > > >As you know there is no answer to these questions. Lots > >of > > > > >Jyotish concepts, from various schools, and from > >'integrative > > > > >approach' of SJC as well /that you also represent/, or due > >to > > > > >the fact that it is 'eclectic' in nature even more so, do > >not > > > > >provide firm theoretical frame. And in most jyotish > >concepts > > > >we > > > > >depend on /justified/ trust in Parashara and Jaimini- even > >if > > > >we > > > > >are unable to formulate 'logical' explanation /at least > >at > > > >the > > > > >moment, at least in theory/ for some of their statements. > > > > > > > > > >So, why do you think that I am supposed to provide > > > >theoretical > > > > >framework for Arudha Lagnas - or any other- concept /in > >this > > > > >particular case/ when, as far as I know, neither you nor > > > >others, > > > > >who use them, haven't done so far? In fact in my attempt > >to > > > > >explain ALs to Vivek I did make some guesses, as they > >appeared > > > >to > > > > >me. How long/if I will use them in the future, depends on > > > >results > > > > >I'd have with them. You obviously use them, and that > >means > > > >that > > > > >you've found them 'workable'- I've seen your and Narsimha > > > > >discussion on predicting the death from AL analysis- so > >you > > > > >should be better able to give the answer to the question > > > >bellow- > > > > >if it's not only rhetorical, as, sorry Robert, it appears > >to > > > > >me. > > > > > > > > > >Plese read my post again- and you'll find an attempt to > > > >formulate > > > > >what ALs stand for, and therefore meaning of 'real' > >'reality' > > > > >truth' are more descriptive that defining- Failure to > >notice > > > >that > > > > >leads to argument for the sake of argument, and is not > >worth > > > > >attention/time. > > > > >If you have better explanation, we all would benefit from > > > >your > > > > >sharing, and I would appreciate that very much, too. > > > > > > > > > >In other words, I am itching to hear from you 'how real > >is > > > >real' > > > > >and get well rounded definition of ALs- that would > >contribute > > > >to > > > > >our knowledge a lot. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > >Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert A. Koch > > > > > gjlist > > > > > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:08 PM > > > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ann and Vivek, > > > > > > > > > > Interesting discussion re: Arudha lagna. May I pose a > > > > >question here? Anna, you state that the lagna and AL both > > > >stand > > > > >for real things, and your position re: AL in that regard > >is > > > > >well-taken. Accepting this, then, the next most logical > > > >question > > > > >would be: > > > > > > > > > > 1. The karaka for the lagna (i.e. truth/reality) is the > >Sun. > > > > >There are no controversies here. > > > > > 2. If that is the case, then what would be the karaka > >for > > > > >the Arudha lagna if, as you say, it also stands for > > > >truth/reality > > > > >(in your opinion)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > > > > > Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA > > > > > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, > > > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or > > > > > Ph: 541.318.0248 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > > : > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms > >of > > > > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > >: > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > : > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > : > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > : > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > >Service. > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Dear Manoj, I posted my reply to Vivek just before reading your post. My question is that why such a big difference. If Dr. B.V. Raman just wanted to popularise then why such a huge difference from Lahiri. If we look at KP Ayanamsa thats less than lahiri by about 6 mins but its not a lot similarly with Deva-Dutta thats about 22 mins. So why such a huge difference in ayanamsa unless thats the crux of my question and that too by such an astute astrologer and a scholar and an author. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash gjlist, Manoj Kumar <mouji99> wrote: > Dear Vivek, > > The real mystery is that Dr. B.V. Raman comes to Delhi > to participate in Calender Reforms Committee meetings. > Signs the statement that Lahiri's ayanamsha only > works. But adopts only his Ayanamasha or popularises > it. Dont know whether his own Chart gives result > according to his own Aynamsha. Obviously not as Shri > K.N. Rao has shown it in his book "Planets and > Children". > > Manoj > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Dear Ash, Will answer you tomorrow on that. Manoj --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > Dear Manoj, > > I posted my reply to Vivek just before reading your > post. My > question is that why such a big difference. If Dr. > B.V. Raman just > wanted to popularise then why such a huge difference > from Lahiri. If > we look at KP Ayanamsa thats less than lahiri by > about 6 mins but its > not a lot similarly with Deva-Dutta thats about 22 > mins. So why such > a huge difference in ayanamsa unless thats the crux > of my question > and that too by such an astute astrologer and a > scholar and an author. > > Thanking you, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > gjlist, Manoj Kumar > <mouji99> wrote: > > Dear Vivek, > > > > The real mystery is that Dr. B.V. Raman comes to > Delhi > > to participate in Calender Reforms Committee > meetings. > > Signs the statement that Lahiri's ayanamsha only > > works. But adopts only his Ayanamasha or > popularises > > it. Dont know whether his own Chart gives result > > according to his own Aynamsha. Obviously not as > Shri > > K.N. Rao has shown it in his book "Planets and > > Children". > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > > http://search. > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > Sat > : > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Dear Ash, I suspect that old age affected his thinking abilities.This happens to many people. By the way,does anyone have B.V.Raman's birth details? vivek. On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 ashsam73 wrote : >Dear Vivek, > >I thought Dr. B.V Raman came to this new ayanamsa at a much >later >stage in his life, even after he had written books using Lahiri >I >believe. > >There must have been some other reason that we are all unaware >of >that would have lead to such a change despite writing books with >a >diff ayanamsa. Such a learned person despite knowing that >there >would be anomalies in his works i.e. earlier books with a >different >ayanamsa and later books with Ramans ayanamsa despite that fact >he >still came up with this ayanamsa that was quite different and >stuck >by it. So this leads me to beleive that there must be a stong >driving factor whatever that was. > >I just have a feeling that there is more to it and I may be >wrong.... >cause common sense dictates that no one just wakes up one day >and >changes everything that have worked on all their lives and >changes it >just like that ... lol... > >Cheers !!! >Ash > >gjlist, "Vivek " <keviv90@r...> wrote: > > Dear ash, > > It is really a mystery as to why such a great scholar like > > B.V.Raman used a wrong ayanamsa.It is obviously wrong. > > The bigger mystery is why he did not correct it through > > experience. > > Raman's ayanamsa makes a difference of close to 2 years in > > vimshottari dasha in my chart.Events certainly do not >justify > > this. > > vivek. > > > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 ashsam73 wrote : > > >Dear Sanjayji and list members, > > > > > >Are you or anyone aware of the reason why Dr. B.V. Raman >chose > > >or > > >used this ayanamsa he is called Ramans or which is about 1 >degree > > >and > > >some mins less than Lahiri ? > > > > > >There must have been some reason for such a great scholar >to > > >have > > >used this or come up with this. From what I am aware Dr. >came > > >up > > >with this ayansma after lots of years of research. > > > > > >Thanking you, > > >Cheers !!! > > >Ash > > > > > > > > >gjlist, "Sanjay Rath" ><daivagyna@s...> > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Sri Gurave namah > > > > Dear Nicholas > > > > With Mercury exalted in the third from Arudha Lagna, he >has > > >become > > >very > > > > spiritual I hear. Some tols that he listens to Vishnu > > >sahasranama > > >everyday . > > > > proves the point about spirituality with exalted benefic >in > > >the > > >third or > > > > sixth from AL. > > > > Manoj, I did not know about the ayanamsa issue. Perhaps >people > > >had > > >been > > > > coloring me with different stories. If that is the point, >then > > >let > > >me make > > > > it clear that even I don't follow it and have never >agreed > > >with > > >that weird > > > > ayanamsa. It's way off the mark. What I was told was > > >something > > >about books > > > > and course materials. Anyway numbers don't count in >deciding > > >and as > > >far as > > > > the world stage is concerned, Dr Raman still holds the >sway. > > >So in > > >material > > > > (sansara terms) it is a different story, although I >wonder > > >if > > >Jupiter > > > > antardasa has started for K N Rao as this is what I am >waiting > > >to > > >see and > > > > judge the results of Jupiter. Prima facie, I think Guru >will > > >give > > >the > > > > results of Pisces as this is the sign it >aspects...remember > > >my > > >quote about > > > > Chandra Kala nadi. > > > > With best regards, > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > > Webpages: http://srath.com > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > gjlist > > > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:14:55 PM > > > > gjlist > > > > [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ Sanjay > > >clarification > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjay > > > > I thought K N Rao became the most famous vedic astrologer >in > > >the > > >world when > > > > Professor Raman's health declined . > > > > Nicholas > > > > > > > > - > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > gjlist > > > > Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:00 PM > > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~OM~ > > > > Dear Vivek, > > > > > > > > Karma really cannot be dissociated with the events in such >a > > >manner, but > > > > prima facie, you are right in your thinking. I will give >an > > >illustration of > > > > my point. > > > > Take the sixth house: Natural good (what people call >benefic, > > >but > > >actually > > > > Subha like Jupiter, Ketu, Vemus, Mercury and Moon) >planets > > >placed > > >there > > > > indicate one who shall be freed from the troubles of the > > >sixth > > >house by the > > > > deity indicated by the planet. All 'Agantuka drista' > > >roga/satru > > >shall vanish > > > > at the smile of such a strong and good planet. > > > > However, an exactly similar situation occuring from AL is >the > > >most > > >terrible. > > > > If the planet in the sixth from AL or its lord is a >natural > > >benefic > > >and is > > > > strong, then the native is tormented by enemies. > > > > Here, both the situations are karmic as they indicate >the > > >manifestation of > > > > karma but the analysis of the result is exactly the > > >opposite. > > > > > > > > Another example: Chandra kala nadi says that for Libra >lagna > > >native, the > > > > great blessing is the strength of exalted Jupiter as the > > >enemies > > >will flee > > > > like elephants running from a battlefield. Now, if Libra >is > > >the > > >Arudha Lagna > > > > then the exactly opposite situation would arise if the >sixth > > >lord > > >were > > > > exalted. This may seem easy to understand, but in >application, > > >this > > >is the > > > > key to Raj-jyotish. > > > > > > > > Take the chart of K N Rao for example. He has Libra >Lagna > > >with > > >Venus in it > > > > and Jupiter in the 10th house in exaltation and Mercury in >the > > >12th > > >house in > > > > exaltation. From the Lagna, the sixth lord Jupiter is >exalted > > >and > > >this may > > > > seem fantastic, but look at it from Arudha Lagna. The AL >is > > >in > > >Cancer with > > > > the sixth lord Jupiter in exaltation. Thus, Jupiter has >the > > >power > > >to destroy > > > > all enemies (as lord of Pisces) or to destroy him and > > >promote > > >enemies (as > > > > lord of Sagittarius)....how would you decide what Jupiter >is > > >going > > >to do? > > > > Mercury is going to teach him the spiritual way and in > > >exaltation > > >in third > > > > from AL gives pravrajya in the positive sense and defeat >in > > >the > > >battle of > > > > sansara in the material sense. His differences with B V > > >Raman > > >started in > > > > Mercury dasa. The end result was a forgone conclusion as > > >during the > > >dasa of > > > > a natural benefic (subha, good) planet exalted in the 3rd >or > > >6th > > > from AL, it > > > > is foolish to fight with anyone as the native is surely > > >defeated. > > > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > >------------------------ > > > > H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > > +91-674-2436871; > > > > Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > > > ------------------ > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > gjlist > > > > Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:48:23 PM > > > > gjlist > > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > Dear sanjay, > > > > I agree with you. > > > > My understanding is that Natal chart being karmic >position > > >at > > > > birth,it shows the KARMIC side --- that is a house in >the > > >chart > > > > will show things from a karmic angle,the matters of that > > >house. > > > > Whereas the arudha pada of that house will show it from >the > > >EVENT > > > > angle. > > > > Perceptions differ to such an extent that the same event >can > > >cause > > > > either joy or suffering. > > > > For example:- Death of a spouse.Externally it may be seen >that > > >the > > > > person is mourning but the person may actually be >rejoicing! > > > > If rejoicing is the case,it could be the result of good >past > > > > karma. > > > > So it is basically KARMIC ANGLE V/S EVENT ANGLE. > > > > Am I right? > > > > Best regards, > > > > vivek. > > > > > > > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 Sanjay Rath wrote : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >~OM~ > > > > >Dear Vivek > > > > >I remember a famous quote > > > > >"Cowards die many times but the brave taste of death >but > > > > >once"...so you will > > > > >agree that the perception of death (mrityu) or near >death > > > > >(apa-mrityu) will > > > > >vary from one chart to another. So even in death, >perception > > >and > > > > >reality > > > > >differ. > > > > >For how many years have we speculated whether the great > > >Subhash > > > > >Chandra Bose > > > > >is actually dead? For how many years do we wonder on >how > > > > >Chaitanya > > > > >Mahaprabhu left this world. He just walked into the idol >of > > > > >Jagannath!! can > > > > >you perceive or imagine this. > > > > >Even in death, an event, perceptions differ. When >someone > > >dies, > > > > >most lament, > > > > >some enemies delight, and most don't care. The reality >is > > >the > > > > >same for all > > > > >yet the perception is different. > > > > >This is not an easy topic and most people avoid it. But >it > > >is > > > > >worth thinking > > > > >as no one can give a perfect answer...after all who >knows > > >Satya > > > > >or the > > > > >perfect truth, what we all understand is half truths. > > > > >With best wishes, > > > > >Sanjay Rath > > > > > >------------------------ > > > > >H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > > > >+91-674-2436871; > > > > >Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org > > > > >------------------ > > > > >---- > > > > > > > > > > gjlist > > > > >Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:15:41 PM > > > > >gjlist > > > > >Re: Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > >Hello Robert and Anna, > > > > >Perception and reality cannot be different in some > > >cases.Length > > > > >of > > > > >life for example. > > > > >I wish I could get an exact definition of AL. > > > > >I recollect a statement I saw while searching on the >net > > >for > > > > >Arudha lagna:- "When ketu transits the trines of arudha > > > > >lagna,he > > > > >gives moksha-gati" > > > > >So what is the significance of the trines of AL? > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 N. wrote : > > > > > >Dear Robert, > > > > > > > > > > > >I understand your questions- I have lots of them, too: >re > > >ALs > > > > >and > > > > > >D charts, length of year /360 vs. 365/, numerous Dasa > > > > >systems, > > > > > >let alone various ayanamsas, etc. > > > > > >As you know there is no answer to these questions. >Lots > > >of > > > > > >Jyotish concepts, from various schools, and from > > >'integrative > > > > > >approach' of SJC as well /that you also represent/, or >due > > >to > > > > > >the fact that it is 'eclectic' in nature even more so, >do > > >not > > > > > >provide firm theoretical frame. And in most jyotish > > >concepts > > > > >we > > > > > >depend on /justified/ trust in Parashara and Jaimini- >even > > >if > > > > >we > > > > > >are unable to formulate 'logical' explanation /at >least > > >at > > > > >the > > > > > >moment, at least in theory/ for some of their >statements. > > > > > > > > > > > >So, why do you think that I am supposed to provide > > > > >theoretical > > > > > >framework for Arudha Lagnas - or any other- concept >/in > > >this > > > > > >particular case/ when, as far as I know, neither you >nor > > > > >others, > > > > > >who use them, haven't done so far? In fact in my >attempt > > >to > > > > > >explain ALs to Vivek I did make some guesses, as they > > >appeared > > > > >to > > > > > >me. How long/if I will use them in the future, depends >on > > > > >results > > > > > >I'd have with them. You obviously use them, and that > > >means > > > > >that > > > > > >you've found them 'workable'- I've seen your and >Narsimha > > > > > >discussion on predicting the death from AL analysis- >so > > >you > > > > > >should be better able to give the answer to the >question > > > > >bellow- > > > > > >if it's not only rhetorical, as, sorry Robert, it >appears > > >to > > > > > >me. > > > > > > > > > > > >Plese read my post again- and you'll find an attempt >to > > > > >formulate > > > > > >what ALs stand for, and therefore meaning of 'real' > > >'reality' > > > > > >truth' are more descriptive that defining- Failure to > > >notice > > > > >that > > > > > >leads to argument for the sake of argument, and is >not > > >worth > > > > > >attention/time. > > > > > >If you have better explanation, we all would benefit > from > > > > >your > > > > > >sharing, and I would appreciate that very much, too. > > > > > > > > > > > >In other words, I am itching to hear from you 'how >real > > >is > > > > >real' > > > > > >and get well rounded definition of ALs- that would > > >contribute > > > > >to > > > > > >our knowledge a lot. > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert A. Koch > > > > > > gjlist > > > > > > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:08 PM > > > > > > Re: [GJ] purpose of arudha lagna/s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ann and Vivek, > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting discussion re: Arudha lagna. May I pose >a > > > > > >question here? Anna, you state that the lagna and AL >both > > > > >stand > > > > > >for real things, and your position re: AL in that >regard > > >is > > > > > >well-taken. Accepting this, then, the next most >logical > > > > >question > > > > > >would be: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The karaka for the lagna (i.e. truth/reality) is >the > > >Sun. > > > > > >There are no controversies here. > > > > > > 2. If that is the case, then what would be the >karaka > > >for > > > > > >the Arudha lagna if, as you say, it also stands for > > > > >truth/reality > > > > > >(in your opinion)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > > > > > > Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA > > > > > > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, > > > > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or > > > > > > Ph: 541.318.0248 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat >Sat > > > > > > : > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Terms > > >of > > > > > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > >: > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > : > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > : > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms >of > > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > : > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms >of > > >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 ~OM~ Dear Ash, Manoj & Vivek, If you look at the book 'Notable Horoscopes' by Dr B V Raman (I have studied every word in that book with such precision like looking through a lens), you will find that in recent editions the writings and the charts don't match. If you make the charts with Lahiri Ayanamsa, the writings are to the mark. I had done some work in this regard when confronted with yet another new ayanamsa from Kerala called Chandra Hari ayanamsa. Chandra hari and I had a lengthy argument and this is in my web at http://srath.com under Rabindranath Tagore. Lahiri Ayanamsa suffers from a first approximation in the average motion of the ayanamsa by 50" per year instead of 50.24.... This fractional amount adds up to about 6-7 minutes in the period from zero ayanamsa till about 1930's. This is what KP probably used for his correction and this sounds most legitimate. However, i don't use K.P and only use the Lahiri ayanamsa as I find this good enough for the present, although I am open and as and when the Govt would like to set up another committee, or even better we do this in private, then I would like to participate in any manner to get to the nearest truth. With best wishes, Sanjay Rath ------------------------ H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871; Webpages:http://srath.com http://.org ------------------ ---- Dear Manoj,I posted my reply to Vivek just before reading your post. My question is that why such a big difference. If Dr. B.V. Raman just wanted to popularise then why such a huge difference from Lahiri. If we look at KP Ayanamsa thats less than lahiri by about 6 mins but its not a lot similarly with Deva-Dutta thats about 22 mins. So why such a huge difference in ayanamsa unless thats the crux of my question and that too by such an astute astrologer and a scholar and an author.Thanking you,Cheers !!!Ash--- In gjlist, Manoj Kumar <mouji99> wrote:> Dear Vivek,> > The real mystery is that Dr. B.V. Raman comes to Delhi> to participate in Calender Reforms Committee meetings.> Signs the statement that Lahiri's ayanamsha only> works. But adopts only his Ayanamasha or popularises> it. Dont know whether his own Chart gives result> according to his own Aynamsha. Obviously not as Shri> K.N. Rao has shown it in his book "Planets and> Children". > > Manoj> > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo> http://search.Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to . __ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Attachment: (image/gif) 09_left11.gif [not stored] Attachment: (image/gif) 0922.gif [not stored] Attachment: (image/gif) IMSTP.gif [not stored] Attachment: (Image/gif) 09_B44.gif [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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