chr-jyotish/Faith

[Guest guest]

Dear Robyn,

 

I lost the post I am responding to-sorry.

In this area there is a huge, inherent potential for misunderstanding because of

the potential for mixing 'milk with orange juice'-

that's perhaps the reason why all discussions of the kind fail, are futile.

 

Faith defies any rational explanation: it exists in different realm, that our

proud right-cortical faculties cannnot access- study of religions, so dear to

me, too, adds definitevely to our better understanding of religions, on that

level- but little does it help us understand 'faith' as such. Our left-cortex

is better suited for that task- but not nearly enough. Energy of faith is

powerful, but not easy /if not impossible/ to comprehend.

 

You can see from the history that ongoing struggle of various religious groups

for followeres/ religios conversions, etc../- for their soul in fact- worst

enemies on individual as well as on national level, are not those who attack us

with bombs, savagery..but those who manage to rob us of our faith- which equals

soul IMHO. Soul longs for faith.

If we say God is one- that's true. But if we extend that we as humans are at

this point of our development, at least, capable of being faitthful masons,

mormons, hindu, muslims etc.. at the same time- it doesn't hold water. Just

seemingly all-encomassing, broad-minded, what not , it's annoying hypocricy

/should I say it's my opinion?-

If I didn't have my own child, I would be able to say that I equally love each

and every child on this planet- and that would be the truth. But now there is

ONE that I love more than anything in this life- how does if fit the previous

statement? By having this ONE LOVE I am BETTER able to understand, appreciate,

defend, etc...protect....anybody''s love for his child. In fact I am better able

to LOVE ALL KIDS.

The same is with FAITH. As`soon as we regognize /or find and recognize, for

those who were not lucky enough to have it from birth/ the truth about our

faith, we are more capable of truly appreciating the same with others. No

conflict here- Conflict arises from hypocricy, politics..

 

As per your experience with church- as with all institutions..unfortunately-

faith is above that-fortunatelly.

 

A.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

"Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12@btopenwo

<gjlist>

Monday, March 17, 2003 12:28 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> Hi Cynthia,> > You obviously must have a number of Christians who come to you

for advice.> What do you tell them about reincarnation? How do you get over the

pervasive> horror that many have of astrology?> > I once completed the Alpha

course in RSA and was prayed over (by my course> leader) because I was studying

Hinduism, my grandfather had been a freemason> (very good, solid, sound man),

and that I had an interest in astrology (ie> put it in my magazine) . I was

told that unless I rid myself of these 'sins'> there was little hope for my

redemption.> > These actions of this leader bear no relation on the soundness

of the Alpha> course. It was the actions of one particular personality.

However, it really> soured my relationship with that particular church and I

did not go back.> Hardly a recipe for encouraging the spread of Christianity.>

> Needless to say, I did not return.> > I would be very interested to know how

you deal with these things.> Robyn> > > ->

"cynthianovak" <cynthianovak (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>> <gjlist>>

Monday, March 17, 2003 3:41 AM> Re: [GJ] christianity and

jyotish (for Robyn)> > > > Hi all> > I've been out of town and have not read

all of these interesting posts. I> > would offer a couple of ideas.> >> >

First, in its most simple state, Christianity offered a revolutionary> idea:> >

One lifetime. You can live a good life of love, charity and faith then go> to> >

heaven regardless of your past, past lives or family. With that in mind,> > how

could a system of knowledge that asserts anything about predestiny fit> > with

the church's teachings? Perhaps they knew the potential limitation> of> >

astrologers and the potential for astrology to limit a person's faith?> >> >

Just a few thoughts.> >> > I believe that the church allowed astrology to

coexist as a tool for> medical> > diagnosis. Still, it is difficult to make

sense of the fearful and> > egotistical actions of zealous religious leaders.

The teachings of Christ> > should not be confused with the power-crazed leaders

and bloody hands of> > zealots.> >> > I realize I am too tiered to string words

together.> > look forward to more of this discussion.> > c> >> >> > -----

Original Message -----> > "Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12 (AT) btopenworld (DOT) com>> >

<gjlist>> > Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:21 PM> >

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)> >> >> > > Dear Zoran,>

> >> > > Thanks. yes, it makes sense that western astrology lost its

credibility> > > within the church because of its moving away from its

religious base.> > >> > > I have much reading to do!> > >> > > Take care and

lets pray for peace over the next few days> > > Robyn> > >> > >> > > -----

Original Message -----> > > "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net>> >

> <gjlist>> > > Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:28 AM> > >

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)> > >> > >> > > > Om Namo

Narayanaya,> > > > Dear Robyn,> > > >> > > > >Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had

to leave all my books in RSA> including> > > my> > > > >invaluable Crux. I

shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy> > the> > > > >lack.> > > >

>> > > > >> > > > I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses> > > >>

> > > >Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to> convey>

> > the> > > > >depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an

abiding> > > interest> > > > >of mine. The big stumbling block of course is

that the Christian> faith> > > (in> > > > >its doctrine as currently stated)

does not accept reincarnation. And> so> > > it> > > > >becomes an almost

impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so> > many> > > > >people of

the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > We people here are

born as sinners according to Chritianity. In Vedic> > > > tradition, we are

said to have many> > > > Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans

predominate in> > > > Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in> > > > comparison to

Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine> qualities).> > > > Remember that

Parashara states that> > > > it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the

humans good and bad> > > > karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)> > > > and

Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference between> > > > Jyotish

and Astrology practised in the West.> > > > Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric

practice, while Astrology belongs> to> > > > Descending Suric practice or going

away from> > > > Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of

Astrology> > > > with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that> > > >

the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and> > > >

there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here> > > > in the west,

yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and> system> > > > which would

prove astrological divine origin)> > > > The problem here in the west is the

lack of faith/beleif in God. Under> > > > the circumstances, if reincarnation

was induced by the Church,> > > > (reincarnation is generally misunderstood

concept among the westerners> > > > who are prone to logical thinking, and tend

to "intellectualize"> > > > the theory itself.) it would be probably

misunderstood by common> > > > people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to

human minds.. That is> what> > > > Saints say.> > > > I have heard many

examples of people saying: " If reincarnation> exists,> > > > let me enjoy all

I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its> > consequences> > > > in the lives

to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite common> > > > among ordinary

westereners, are detrimental for Religion.> > > > By adopting them, people

loose faith and awe for God, which is bad.> For> > > > that reason, it is

better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,> > > > the attitude of the

Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people> who> > > > are deeply involved

in Christian practices must have met> > > > with experiences of reincarnation

through their own practices.> > > > Hope this helps> > > > Zoran> > > >> > > >

>As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new> thought> > no>

> > > >matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite> > >

having> > > > >been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally

believe> > that> > > the> > > > >arena of high mystical thought and belief

overrides all boundaries of> > > > >doctrine). But...it is proving to be a

stumbling block when I speak> to> > > > >people who want help. Luckily, the new

archbishop of Canterbury seems> > to> > > be> > > > >setting a new tone for

anglicans around the world (having been> recently> > > made> > > > >an honorary

Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new> wave> > > of> > > >

>open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level> my> > >

> >sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising> > >

meditation> > > > >(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20

years ago> she> > > > >thought I was going straight to hell for doing it

myself!> > > > >> > > > >Obviously this is an arena that is begging for

research - to bridge> the> > > gap> > > > >somehow - and I shall most certainly

be attempting to study this in> > > future.> > > > >> > > > >Zoran, if you come

across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic> > > research> > > > >on the

gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was> > accepted)> > > or> >

> > >know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the> Vatican> >

> II> > > > >Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be> >

> grateful.> > > > >> > > > >In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for

the person in> > question> > > of> > > > >Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon

under tremendous threat and> > isolated> > > in> > > > >what appears to be a

papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong> > > here).He> > > > >constantly

complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of> > > > >laziness,

lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit> the> > > > >bill.

This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a> > > number> > >

> >of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter> > alia).>

> > > >> > > > >I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time>

> > > >(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications> there>

> > are> > > > >for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with

great> > > interest> > > > >for future reference in my studies. I realise of

course that there is> > no> > > > >certainty in this analysis because of lack

of birth time, but it> would> > > make> > > > >for an interesting analysis if I

could learn from this. It is going> to> > be> > > a> > > > >perennial problem

this lack of birth time in a country where the time> > is> > > not> > > >

>recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of> > this> >

> > >lack.> > > > >> > > > >Om Tat Sat> > > > >Robyn> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>

> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >----- Original Message

-----> > > > >"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net>> > > > >To:

<gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>> > > > >Sent:

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM> > > > >Re: [GJ] christianity and

jyotish (for Robyn)> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Om Namo

Narayanaya,> > > > >>Dear Robin and John,> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >

>>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets> > > > >>>as impulses

of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi> > > > >>>states. These impulses are

generic (part of human> > > > >>>nature) and are not confined to specific

religious> > > > >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the> > > >

>>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own> > > > >>>self). You

should read Maharishi's commentary on the> > > > >>>Gita to fully understand

his ideas.> > > > >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be> >

> > >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and> > > > >>>Shiva.

In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the> > > > >>>accepted Christian

theology, also refers to aspects of> > > > >>>our self-- in that we are capable

of experiencing the> > > > >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are

the> > > > >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the> > > >

>>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,> > > > >>>the process

of knowing and the known.> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >

>>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in> > christian> >

> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >way. We cannot expect> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My> path> > >

is> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >better than yours"> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.> > > >

>>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding> > > >

>>> > > > >>> > > > >Deities in Christian tradition.> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who> > is> >

> my> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >Diksha Guru states that> > > > >> > > > >> > >

> >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both> > Christian>

> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >and Vedic Tradition are> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.> > > > >>Beleive me, I have

advised people to do prayers to either Mother> Marry> > > or> > > > >>> > > >

>>> > > > >Christ or specific Saints,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>which gave

wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure> of> > > > >>> > > >

>>> > > > >Ishta Devata..> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Yesterday I spoke to my

friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe> was> > > even> > > > >>> > > > >>> >

> > >given a TM mantra of Shri> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Saraswati in

initiation. She is an artist and some time back she> > painted> > > a> > > >

>>> > > > >>> > > > >female Goddess of water which> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint> Iliah> > >

who> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >is the saint(messanger of God)> > > > >> > > >

>> > > > >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker,

he/she> > > will> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >find thier ways no matter of

Religion.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox

religion is very strong, and is> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >beautiful. We have

powerful temples/churches,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>where one can feel

spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries> old).> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >

>Since we have touched this tricky subject> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>I

personally beleive that there is no difference between the> > religions.> > > >

>>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and> by> > > >

>>> > > > >>> > > > >means of sound one can experience a state> > > > >> > > >

>> > > > >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context,>

> and> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >one must have strong inclinations for bhakti>

> > > >> > > > >> > > > >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will

strongly connect to> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >trines) Mentioning the TM, that

is the key to> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I

think that the time has come> to> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >demistify the

subject. Since you practice TM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>haven't you known

that mantras used in this technique, are none> other> > > than> > > > >>> > > >

>>> > > > >names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis> > > > >> > > > >> > > >

>>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested> > in> >

> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in> > > > >>

> > > >> > > > >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka

Mantra of> > > Hare> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >Krishna is extremely powerful

as well.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered

mantra. which Srila> > > Prabhupada> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >evolved in his

famous mantra. I am sad to> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>see that his teaching was

misunderstood today by many.. But, let's> > > return> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >

>to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>most

saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God,> pardon> > > my> > >

> >>> > > > >>> > > > >sinful personality" This mantra is best> > > > >> > > >

>> > > > >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some

very> > old> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >christian manuscripts. You can try this

prayer> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal

world of creation is> > indeed> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >phenomanal. THe

essence is the same, everwilling> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>love of God

offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM> > > > >>I should stop now,

otherwise this mail will take hours:))> > > > >>Best wishes> > > > >>Zoran> > >

> >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>ZORAN

RADOSAVLJEVIC> > > > >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre> > > >

>>email: ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net> > > > >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu> > > > >>> > > > >>> >

> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna;

Om Tat Sat> > > > >>:

gjlist-> > > > >>http://www.goravani.com> > > > >>> > >

> >>> > > > >>Your use of is subject to> > >

> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >

> >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate

Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> > > > >:

gjlist-> > > > >http://www.goravani.com> > > > >> > > >

>> > > > >Your use of is subject to> >

> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> >> > > > --> > > > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC> > > > Jyotish Teacher of Shree

Jagannath Vedic Centre> > > > email: ahimsa (AT) NSpoint (DOT) net> > > > web:

www.sjvc.co.yu> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Namo Bhagavate

Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> > > > :

gjlist-> > > > http://www.goravani.com> > > >> > > >> >

> > Your use of is subject to> >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >

>> > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> > > To

, send an email to: gjlist-> > >

http://www.goravani.com> > >> > >> > > Your use of is subject to>

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Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> > :

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is subject to > >> >> > > > > >

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> To , send an

email to: gjlist-> http://www.goravani.com> > > Your use

of is subject to > > >