christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

March 15, 2003

Robyn,

The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

others recommend that one gives to charity to

strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

contributins to persons or organizations signifying

Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

states. These impulses are generic (part of human

nature) and are not confined to specific religious

doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

Gita to fully understand his ideas.

Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

experiencer, the process of the experience and the

experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

the process of knowing and the known.

In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

light".

Regards,

John R.

--- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> Could someone please direct me to information

> (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> their chart.

>

> And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> from them (off or on list).

>

> Many thanks

> Robyn

>

Web Hosting - establish your business online

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March 15, 2003

Om Namo Narayanaya,

Dear Robin and John,

>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

>the process of knowing and the known.

>

This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian way. We

cannot expect

everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is better

than yours"

This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding Deities in

Christian tradition.

This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and

Vedic Tradition are

awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or Christ

or specific Saints,

which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of Ishta

Devata..

Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even given

a TM mantra of Shri

Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who is

the saint(messanger of God)

Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will find

thier ways no matter of Religion.

In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is beautiful. We

have powerful temples/churches,

where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old). Since we

have touched this tricky subject

I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by means of

sound one can experience a state

of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and one must

have strong inclinations for bhakti

(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to trines)

Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to demistify

the subject. Since you practice TM

haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than names

of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in his

ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return to

Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my sinful

personality" This mantra is best

thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

Best wishes

Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

email: ahimsa

web: www.sjvc.co.yu

March 15, 2003

Zoran,

We appreciate your ideas relating to this subject.

Personally, I'd like to know about how you translated

the various ishta devata to the various Christian

saints. There was a discussion in this list (it could

have been in others too) about how to determine the

ishta devata from the chart. Can you elaborate on

this again and the classical jyotish source?

I agree that all religions have a common denominator.

It is unfortunate many people, including Bin Laden and

Bush, are not able to transcend their fundamental

beliefs, which is the cause of the world problem

today. Most people limit themselves to the relative

confines of their religious tradition. They're not

able to conceive of the Absolute basis of all

religions.

All differences in religious traditions are resolved

at the realm of the Absolute, at the higher levels of

consciousness.

For these reasons above, I appreciate Maharishi's

teachings for identifying the source of the problems

in the world and providing a solution to everyone. He

has provided the world with a very simple technique of

meditation to enable everyone to act at the higher

levels of consciousness.

Maharishi's mantra selections are not diametrically

opposed to Christian thought either. In the Christian

gospel, St. John states that "in the beginning was the

Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was

God."

Regards,

John R.

--- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote:

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the

> planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh

> Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be

> the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on

> the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can

> be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu

> and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects

> of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing

> the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the

> knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to

> do it in christian way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we

> try to say:" My path is better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent

> and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic

> Astrology, corresponding Deities in Christian

> tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even

> Maharishi Ji who is my Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure

> PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to

> either Mother Marry or Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined

> by the procedure of Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri

> Saraswati. SHe was even given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some

> time back she painted a female Goddess of water

> which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a

> dream of Saint Iliah who is the saint(messanger of

> God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is

> genuine Seeker, he/she will find thier ways no

> matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very

> strong, and is beautiful. We have powerful

> temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even

> 9 centuries old). Since we have touched this tricky

> subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference

> between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound

> (devanagari), and by means of sound one can

> experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa

> or the context, and one must have strong

> inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will

> strongly connect to trines) Mentioning the TM, that

> is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that

> the time has come to demistify the subject. Since

> you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this

> technique, are none other than names of

> Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as

> Lord Rama sugested in his ephic-Ramayana. There can

> be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason

> Janaka Mantra of Hare Krishna is extremely powerful

> as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra.

> which Srila Prabhupada evolved in his famous mantra.

> I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by

> many.. But, let's return to Christianity. In Ortodox

> tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus,

> son of God, pardon my sinful personality" This

> mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as

> suggested in some very old christian manuscripts.

> You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world

> of creation is indeed phenomanal. THe essence is the

> same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to

> HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take

> hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

> Sat

> :

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

Web Hosting - establish your business online

http://webhosting.

March 15, 2003

Dear Zoran and John,

Thanks for that.

Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

lack.

Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey the

depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding interest

of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite having

been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that the

arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to be

setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently made

an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the gap

somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in future.

Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic research

on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted) or

know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question of

Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated in

what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong here).He

constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a number

of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great interest

for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would make

for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be a

perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is not

recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

lack.

Om Tat Sat

Robyn

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

Deities in Christian tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

is the saint(messanger of God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

Since we have touched this tricky subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

means of sound one can experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

sinful personality" This mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

March 15, 2003

My our God forgive us and save us!

Dear Zoran,

Thanks for this nice post.

There are lots of differences among religions, simply because religions are

institutionalized, but God is the same, I agree. He doen's care about clans

-and all differneces are ''superficial". That in no way means that one will

-should forget the name/s/ of God he was given at birth./There must be the

reason for that, don't you think so?/

I like some mantras' sounds, I love languages by the way, and do feel honest

respect when Hindu, Muslim..etc.

pray the god's name as it's given to them, in their own language.

However, humans are still far from being ready to have ONE religion, even

though we know that God is ONE.

And if the religion has played so important role in preserving national

identity, and in survival of NATION

in it's physical form even, as it's the case with Serbian orthodoxy, it

seems sacred to me to preseve it as it is-

"undiluted''.

Serbia has survived over the centuries, and will survive only because of

it's

religion- it automatically commands respect and gratefulness, for God as

well as

this partucular name, sweet ortodoxy, HE's chosen to present to us.

Until one day when God decides to unite us in both souls and names-

In a meantime, the best we can do is to love what we are/have, and respect

what others are/have.

In name and substance, both

Warmest regards,

Anna

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

Saturday, March 15, 2003 10:44 PM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

Deities in Christian tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

is the saint(messanger of God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

Since we have touched this tricky subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

means of sound one can experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

sinful personality" This mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

March 15, 2003

Dear Robyn,

I don''t have that problem with my religion- I know all my life that we are

part of a bigger WHOLE and that our children's life is 'deserved' by

parents,

by family...In my religion although nobody says 'reincarnation'

it is too well accepted that what we do, in our acts and thoughts,

affects our progeny, for many generations.

So, pra-parents-sins are as well as pra-parents-blessings are well

integrated concepts in minds of our people.

Source of morality, no doubt.

I had another problem- was guilt-ridden for doing astrology, because the

CHURCH doesn't accept it. And I do understand the reasons behind that-

on one hand, less develped souls especially, can get their vision of God

'blurred' if they place to much trust in astrology- and we all have seen

that- God may be

behind it, but definetely ABOVE, more than everything we can comprehend by

ANY astrology. His is the final say /I would always tell that to anybody

whom I've dealt with!/ On the other hand misuse of astrology is a REAL

threat /power over those in crisis is huge responsibility, not many are up

to that!/

Astrology studies started at churches, anyway.

I find it very encouraging that Jyotish has support of Hindu relifion.

And I beleive that if one does astrology exclusively to hepl people/with

God-fearing attitude!!! and humbleness w.r.t. to our, by definition, limited

capacity to understand ALL /, than no harm can result.

A.

-

"Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:15 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> Dear Zoran and John,

>

> Thanks for that.

>

> Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

> invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

> lack.

>

> Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey

the

> depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

interest

> of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

> its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

> becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

> people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

>

> As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

> matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

having

> been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that

the

> arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

> people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to

be

> setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently

made

> an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

> open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

> sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

> (and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

> thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

>

> Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the

gap

> somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

future.

>

> Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

research

> on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted)

or

> know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

> Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

>

> In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question

of

> Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated

in

> what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

here).He

> constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

> bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

number

> of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

>

> I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> (LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

> for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

interest

> for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

> certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would

make

> for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be

a

> perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is

not

> recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

> lack.

>

> Om Tat Sat

> Robyn

>

-

> "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> <gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

> > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > Dear Robin and John,

> >

> > >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > >the process of knowing and the known.

> > >

> > This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

> way. We cannot expect

> > everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path

is

> better than yours"

> > This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> > Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> Deities in Christian tradition.

> > This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is

my

> Diksha Guru states that

> > Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

> and Vedic Tradition are

> > awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry

or

> Christ or specific Saints,

> > which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

> Ishta Devata..

> > Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was

even

> given a TM mantra of Shri

> > Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted

a

> female Goddess of water which

> > was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah

who

> is the saint(messanger of God)

> > Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

will

> find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

> Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> > In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

> means of sound one can experience a state

> > of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

> one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

> demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other

than

> names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

> his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

Hare

> Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

Prabhupada

> evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

return

> to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon

my

> sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

> christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

> phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > Best wishes

> > Zoran

> >

> > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > email: ahimsa

> > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

> >

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

March 15, 2003

-----John,

Wow...i get the feeling sometimes that we scholars of Jyotish (if we could

retain some form of objectivity) could be the forerunners of an amazing

crossover between the religions. If...and this is the crux....if we could

logically and methodically prove the case. And here is the rub...how do you

do that with a science that is formulated and practised in ways that the

western scientific mode of thought does not accept.

There is one methodology that would accept it: a philosophical method of

enquiry (accepted in the West) called phenomenology. And this is the way I

am going to go.

Its going to take years of research and backbreaking enquiry. But what an

enquiry!

Waiting for Zoran's explanation of the understanding of the Ista Devata from

a Christian perspective.

Many thanks for the enlightening discussion. I am sitting in the York

countryside surrounded by the most exquisite natural beauty. Surely I am

blessed!

Robyn

Original Message -----

"John R" <jr_esq

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:12 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> Robyn,

>

> The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

> ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

> mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

> others recommend that one gives to charity to

> strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

> Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

> contributins to persons or organizations signifying

> Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

> applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

> Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

>

> In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>

> Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> the process of knowing and the known.

>

> In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

> Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

> Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

> not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

>

> It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

> not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

> As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

> light".

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

--- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> > Dear Group,

> >

> > Could someone please direct me to information

> > (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> > Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> > their chart.

> >

> > And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> > knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> > interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> > from them (off or on list).

> >

> > Many thanks

> > Robyn

> >

>

> Web Hosting - establish your business online

> http://webhosting.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

March 15, 2003

Dear Robyn,

Try Giordano Bruno's book on the Gnostics, although its a bit old. Also have

you tried the Gnostic Gospels?

Best regards,

Sarbani

Ms RE Simpson [robyn12]

Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:46 AM

gjlist