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christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

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Robyn,

 

The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

others recommend that one gives to charity to

strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

contributins to persons or organizations signifying

Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

 

In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

states. These impulses are generic (part of human

nature) and are not confined to specific religious

doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

Gita to fully understand his ideas.

 

Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

experiencer, the process of the experience and the

experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

the process of knowing and the known.

 

In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

 

It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

light".

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> Could someone please direct me to information

> (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> their chart.

>

> And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> from them (off or on list).

>

> Many thanks

> Robyn

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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Om Namo Narayanaya,

Dear Robin and John,

 

>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

>the process of knowing and the known.

>

>

This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian way. We

cannot expect

everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is better

than yours"

This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding Deities in

Christian tradition.

This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and

Vedic Tradition are

awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or Christ

or specific Saints,

which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of Ishta

Devata..

Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even given

a TM mantra of Shri

Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who is

the saint(messanger of God)

Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will find

thier ways no matter of Religion.

In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is beautiful. We

have powerful temples/churches,

where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old). Since we

have touched this tricky subject

I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by means of

sound one can experience a state

of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and one must

have strong inclinations for bhakti

(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to trines)

Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to demistify

the subject. Since you practice TM

haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than names

of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in his

ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return to

Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my sinful

personality" This mantra is best

thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

Best wishes

Zoran

 

 

 

 

 

 

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

email: ahimsa

web: www.sjvc.co.yu

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Zoran,

 

We appreciate your ideas relating to this subject.

Personally, I'd like to know about how you translated

the various ishta devata to the various Christian

saints. There was a discussion in this list (it could

have been in others too) about how to determine the

ishta devata from the chart. Can you elaborate on

this again and the classical jyotish source?

 

I agree that all religions have a common denominator.

It is unfortunate many people, including Bin Laden and

Bush, are not able to transcend their fundamental

beliefs, which is the cause of the world problem

today. Most people limit themselves to the relative

confines of their religious tradition. They're not

able to conceive of the Absolute basis of all

religions.

 

All differences in religious traditions are resolved

at the realm of the Absolute, at the higher levels of

consciousness.

 

For these reasons above, I appreciate Maharishi's

teachings for identifying the source of the problems

in the world and providing a solution to everyone. He

has provided the world with a very simple technique of

meditation to enable everyone to act at the higher

levels of consciousness.

 

Maharishi's mantra selections are not diametrically

opposed to Christian thought either. In the Christian

gospel, St. John states that "in the beginning was the

Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was

God."

 

Regards,

 

John R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote:

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the

> planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh

> Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be

> the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on

> the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can

> be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu

> and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects

> of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing

> the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the

> knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to

> do it in christian way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we

> try to say:" My path is better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent

> and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic

> Astrology, corresponding Deities in Christian

> tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even

> Maharishi Ji who is my Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure

> PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to

> either Mother Marry or Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined

> by the procedure of Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri

> Saraswati. SHe was even given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some

> time back she painted a female Goddess of water

> which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a

> dream of Saint Iliah who is the saint(messanger of

> God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is

> genuine Seeker, he/she will find thier ways no

> matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very

> strong, and is beautiful. We have powerful

> temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even

> 9 centuries old). Since we have touched this tricky

> subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference

> between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound

> (devanagari), and by means of sound one can

> experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa

> or the context, and one must have strong

> inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will

> strongly connect to trines) Mentioning the TM, that

> is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that

> the time has come to demistify the subject. Since

> you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this

> technique, are none other than names of

> Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as

> Lord Rama sugested in his ephic-Ramayana. There can

> be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason

> Janaka Mantra of Hare Krishna is extremely powerful

> as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra.

> which Srila Prabhupada evolved in his famous mantra.

> I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by

> many.. But, let's return to Christianity. In Ortodox

> tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus,

> son of God, pardon my sinful personality" This

> mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as

> suggested in some very old christian manuscripts.

> You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world

> of creation is indeed phenomanal. THe essence is the

> same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to

> HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take

> hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

> Sat

> :

> gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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Dear Zoran and John,

 

Thanks for that.

 

Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

lack.

 

Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey the

depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding interest

of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

 

As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite having

been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that the

arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to be

setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently made

an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

 

Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the gap

somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in future.

 

Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic research

on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted) or

know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

 

In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question of

Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated in

what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong here).He

constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a number

of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

 

I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great interest

for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would make

for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be a

perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is not

recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

lack.

 

Om Tat Sat

Robyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

<gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

Deities in Christian tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

is the saint(messanger of God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

Since we have touched this tricky subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

means of sound one can experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

sinful personality" This mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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My our God forgive us and save us!

 

Dear Zoran,

Thanks for this nice post.

There are lots of differences among religions, simply because religions are

institutionalized, but God is the same, I agree. He doen's care about clans

-and all differneces are ''superficial". That in no way means that one will

-should forget the name/s/ of God he was given at birth./There must be the

reason for that, don't you think so?/

 

I like some mantras' sounds, I love languages by the way, and do feel honest

respect when Hindu, Muslim..etc.

pray the god's name as it's given to them, in their own language.

 

However, humans are still far from being ready to have ONE religion, even

though we know that God is ONE.

And if the religion has played so important role in preserving national

identity, and in survival of NATION

in it's physical form even, as it's the case with Serbian orthodoxy, it

seems sacred to me to preseve it as it is-

"undiluted''.

Serbia has survived over the centuries, and will survive only because of

it's

religion- it automatically commands respect and gratefulness, for God as

well as

this partucular name, sweet ortodoxy, HE's chosen to present to us.

 

Until one day when God decides to unite us in both souls and names-

In a meantime, the best we can do is to love what we are/have, and respect

what others are/have.

 

In name and substance, both

Warmest regards,

Anna

 

 

 

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

<gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

Saturday, March 15, 2003 10:44 PM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

Deities in Christian tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

is the saint(messanger of God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

Since we have touched this tricky subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

means of sound one can experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

sinful personality" This mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

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Dear Robyn,

 

I don''t have that problem with my religion- I know all my life that we are

part of a bigger WHOLE and that our children's life is 'deserved' by

parents,

by family...In my religion although nobody says 'reincarnation'

it is too well accepted that what we do, in our acts and thoughts,

affects our progeny, for many generations.

 

So, pra-parents-sins are as well as pra-parents-blessings are well

integrated concepts in minds of our people.

Source of morality, no doubt.

 

I had another problem- was guilt-ridden for doing astrology, because the

CHURCH doesn't accept it. And I do understand the reasons behind that-

on one hand, less develped souls especially, can get their vision of God

'blurred' if they place to much trust in astrology- and we all have seen

that- God may be

behind it, but definetely ABOVE, more than everything we can comprehend by

ANY astrology. His is the final say /I would always tell that to anybody

whom I've dealt with!/ On the other hand misuse of astrology is a REAL

threat /power over those in crisis is huge responsibility, not many are up

to that!/

Astrology studies started at churches, anyway.

I find it very encouraging that Jyotish has support of Hindu relifion.

And I beleive that if one does astrology exclusively to hepl people/with

God-fearing attitude!!! and humbleness w.r.t. to our, by definition, limited

capacity to understand ALL /, than no harm can result.

 

A.

 

 

 

 

 

-

"Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:15 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Dear Zoran and John,

>

> Thanks for that.

>

> Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

> invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

> lack.

>

> Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey

the

> depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

interest

> of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

> its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

> becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

> people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

>

> As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

> matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

having

> been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that

the

> arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

> people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to

be

> setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently

made

> an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

> open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

> sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

> (and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

> thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

>

> Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the

gap

> somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

future.

>

> Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

research

> on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted)

or

> know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

> Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

>

> In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question

of

> Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated

in

> what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

here).He

> constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

> bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

number

> of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

>

> I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> (LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

> for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

interest

> for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

> certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would

make

> for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be

a

> perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is

not

> recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

> lack.

>

> Om Tat Sat

> Robyn

>

>

-

> "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> <gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > Dear Robin and John,

> >

> > >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > >the process of knowing and the known.

> > >

> > >

> > This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

> way. We cannot expect

> > everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path

is

> better than yours"

> > This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> > Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> Deities in Christian tradition.

> > This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is

my

> Diksha Guru states that

> > Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

> and Vedic Tradition are

> > awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry

or

> Christ or specific Saints,

> > which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

> Ishta Devata..

> > Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was

even

> given a TM mantra of Shri

> > Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted

a

> female Goddess of water which

> > was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah

who

> is the saint(messanger of God)

> > Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

will

> find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

> Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> > In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

> means of sound one can experience a state

> > of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

> one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

> demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other

than

> names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

> his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

Hare

> Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

Prabhupada

> evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

return

> to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon

my

> sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

> christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

> phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > Best wishes

> > Zoran

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > email: ahimsa

> > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

-----John,

 

Wow...i get the feeling sometimes that we scholars of Jyotish (if we could

retain some form of objectivity) could be the forerunners of an amazing

crossover between the religions. If...and this is the crux....if we could

logically and methodically prove the case. And here is the rub...how do you

do that with a science that is formulated and practised in ways that the

western scientific mode of thought does not accept.

 

There is one methodology that would accept it: a philosophical method of

enquiry (accepted in the West) called phenomenology. And this is the way I

am going to go.

 

Its going to take years of research and backbreaking enquiry. But what an

enquiry!

 

Waiting for Zoran's explanation of the understanding of the Ista Devata from

a Christian perspective.

 

Many thanks for the enlightening discussion. I am sitting in the York

countryside surrounded by the most exquisite natural beauty. Surely I am

blessed!

 

Robyn

 

 

 

Original Message -----

"John R" <jr_esq

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:12 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Robyn,

>

> The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

> ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

> mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

> others recommend that one gives to charity to

> strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

> Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

> contributins to persons or organizations signifying

> Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

> applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

> Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

>

> In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>

> Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> the process of knowing and the known.

>

> In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

> Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

> Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

> not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

>

> It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

> not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

> As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

> light".

>

> Regards,

>

> John R.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

--- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> > Dear Group,

> >

> > Could someone please direct me to information

> > (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> > Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> > their chart.

> >

> > And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> > knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> > interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> > from them (off or on list).

> >

> > Many thanks

> > Robyn

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Web Hosting - establish your business online

> http://webhosting.

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Robyn,

 

Try Giordano Bruno's book on the Gnostics, although its a bit old. Also have

you tried the Gnostic Gospels?

 

Best regards,

 

Sarbani

 

 

 

 

Ms RE Simpson [robyn12]

Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:46 AM

gjlist

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

Dear Zoran and John,

 

Thanks for that.

 

Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

lack.

 

Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey the

depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding interest

of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

 

As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite having

been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that the

arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to be

setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently made

an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

 

Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the gap

somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in future.

 

Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic research

on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted) or

know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

 

In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question of

Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated in

what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong here).He

constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a number

of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

 

I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great interest

for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would make

for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be a

perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is not

recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

lack.

 

Om Tat Sat

Robyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

<gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robin and John,

>

> >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> >

> This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

way. We cannot expect

> everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

better than yours"

> This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

Deities in Christian tradition.

> This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

Diksha Guru states that

> Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

and Vedic Tradition are

> awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

Christ or specific Saints,

> which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

Ishta Devata..

> Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

given a TM mantra of Shri

> Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

female Goddess of water which

> was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

is the saint(messanger of God)

> Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

Since we have touched this tricky subject

> I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

means of sound one can experience a state

> of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

sinful personality" This mantra is best

> thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> Best wishes

> Zoran

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Yes Robyn, you are blessed! Please let it stay that way!

And ...so blessed you brought good new vibes here-

and touched the core question- of making Jyotish part of our cuture,

christianity

I don't see any reason /other than laziness / which would prevent us

from being ''forerunners of an amazing

crossover between the religions."- for true knowledge belongs to all.

Thanks for this fresh perspective /I was less able to make this 'leap' as

clearly as you did.

Love,

Anna

 

 

 

 

-----

 

Original Message -----

"Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:06 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

>

> -----John,

>

> Wow...i get the feeling sometimes that we scholars of Jyotish (if we could

> retain some form of objectivity) could be the forerunners of an amazing

> crossover between the religions. If...and this is the crux....if we could

> logically and methodically prove the case. And here is the rub...how do

you

> do that with a science that is formulated and practised in ways that the

> western scientific mode of thought does not accept.

>

> There is one methodology that would accept it: a philosophical method of

> enquiry (accepted in the West) called phenomenology. And this is the way I

> am going to go.

>

> Its going to take years of research and backbreaking enquiry. But what an

> enquiry!

>

> Waiting for Zoran's explanation of the understanding of the Ista Devata

from

> a Christian perspective.

>

> Many thanks for the enlightening discussion. I am sitting in the York

> countryside surrounded by the most exquisite natural beauty. Surely I am

> blessed!

>

> Robyn

>

>

>

> Original Message -----

> "John R" <jr_esq

> <gjlist>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:12 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Robyn,

> >

> > The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

> > ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

> > mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

> > others recommend that one gives to charity to

> > strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

> > Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

> > contributins to persons or organizations signifying

> > Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

> > applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

> > Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

> >

> > In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >

> > Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > the process of knowing and the known.

> >

> > In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

> > Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

> > Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

> > not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

> >

> > It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

> > not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

> > As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

> > light".

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > John R.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> > > Dear Group,

> > >

> > > Could someone please direct me to information

> > > (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> > > Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> > > their chart.

> > >

> > > And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> > > knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> > > interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> > > from them (off or on list).

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > > Robyn

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Web Hosting - establish your business online

> > http://webhosting.

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Sarbani,

 

I have never been able to get hold of a copy as yet. But when next in London

shall do so. I have been trying to read these for so many years, it is time

I did. I think they hold much precious knowledge suppressed for obvious

reasons of control.

 

Hope you are well.

Robyn

 

 

-

"Sarabani Sarkar" <sarbani

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 6:36 AM

RE: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Dear Robyn,

>

> Try Giordano Bruno's book on the Gnostics, although its a bit old. Also

have

> you tried the Gnostic Gospels?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Sarbani

>

>

>

>

> Ms RE Simpson [robyn12]

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:46 AM

> gjlist

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> Dear Zoran and John,

>

> Thanks for that.

>

> Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

> invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

> lack.

>

> Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey

the

> depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

interest

> of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

> its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

> becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

> people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

>

> As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

> matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

having

> been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that

the

> arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

> people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to

be

> setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently

made

> an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

> open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

> sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

> (and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

> thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

>

> Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the

gap

> somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

future.

>

> Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

research

> on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted)

or

> know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

> Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

>

> In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question

of

> Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated

in

> what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

here).He

> constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

> bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

number

> of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

>

> I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> (LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

> for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

interest

> for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

> certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would

make

> for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be

a

> perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is

not

> recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

> lack.

>

> Om Tat Sat

> Robyn

>

>

-

> "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> <gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > Dear Robin and John,

> >

> > >In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > >as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > >states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > >nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > >doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > >master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > >self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > >Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > >Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > >compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > >Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > >accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > >our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > >tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > >experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > >experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > >the process of knowing and the known.

> > >

> > >

> > This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

> way. We cannot expect

> > everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path

is

> better than yours"

> > This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> > Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> Deities in Christian tradition.

> > This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is

my

> Diksha Guru states that

> > Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

> and Vedic Tradition are

> > awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry

or

> Christ or specific Saints,

> > which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

> Ishta Devata..

> > Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was

even

> given a TM mantra of Shri

> > Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted

a

> female Goddess of water which

> > was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah

who

> is the saint(messanger of God)

> > Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

will

> find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

> Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> > In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

> means of sound one can experience a state

> > of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

> one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > (see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

> demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other

than

> names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

> his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

Hare

> Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

Prabhupada

> evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

return

> to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon

my

> sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

> christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

> phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > Best wishes

> > Zoran

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > email: ahimsa

> > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Om Namo Narayanaya,

Dear John,

 

 

>Zoran,

>

>We appreciate your ideas relating to this subject.

>Personally, I'd like to know about how you translated

>the various ishta devata to the various Christian

>saints. There was a discussion in this list (it could

>have been in others too) about how to determine the

>ishta devata from the chart. Can you elaborate on

>this again and the classical jyotish source?

>

>

You cannot find such matters in classical jyotish source, since the original

classics are older than Christianity. My Jyotish Guru elaborated this in

theme

in his book: Crux of Vedic Astrology-Pt. Sanjay Rath

Best wishes

Zoran

 

>I agree that all religions have a common denominator.

>It is unfortunate many people, including Bin Laden and

>Bush, are not able to transcend their fundamental

>beliefs, which is the cause of the world problem

>today. Most people limit themselves to the relative

>confines of their religious tradition. They're not

>able to conceive of the Absolute basis of all

>religions.

>

>All differences in religious traditions are resolved

>at the realm of the Absolute, at the higher levels of

>consciousness.

>

>For these reasons above, I appreciate Maharishi's

>teachings for identifying the source of the problems

>in the world and providing a solution to everyone. He

>has provided the world with a very simple technique of

>meditation to enable everyone to act at the higher

>levels of consciousness.

>

>Maharishi's mantra selections are not diametrically

>opposed to Christian thought either. In the Christian

>gospel, St. John states that "in the beginning was the

>Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was

>God."

>

>Regards,

>

>John R.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>--- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote:

>

>

>>Om Namo Narayanaya,

>>Dear Robin and John,

>>

>>

>>

>>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the

>>>

>>>

>>planets

>>

>>

>>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh

>>>

>>>

>>Yogi

>>

>>

>>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

>>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

>>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be

>>>

>>>

>>the

>>

>>

>>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

>>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on

>>>

>>>

>>the

>>

>>

>>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can

>>>

>>>

>>be

>>

>>

>>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu

>>>

>>>

>>and

>>

>>

>>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

>>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects

>>>

>>>

>>of

>>

>>

>>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing

>>>

>>>

>>the

>>

>>

>>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

>>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

>>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the

>>>

>>>

>>knower,

>>

>>

>>>the process of knowing and the known.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to

>>do it in christian way. We cannot expect

>>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we

>>try to say:" My path is better than yours"

>>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent

>>and unbounded.

>>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic

>>Astrology, corresponding Deities in Christian

>>tradition.

>>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even

>>Maharishi Ji who is my Diksha Guru states that

>>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure

>>PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and Vedic Tradition are

>>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

>>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to

>>either Mother Marry or Christ or specific Saints,

>>which gave wonderful results, of course determined

>>by the procedure of Ishta Devata..

>>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri

>>Saraswati. SHe was even given a TM mantra of Shri

>>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some

>>time back she painted a female Goddess of water

>>which

>>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a

>>dream of Saint Iliah who is the saint(messanger of

>>God)

>>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is

>>genuine Seeker, he/she will find thier ways no

>>matter of Religion.

>>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very

>>strong, and is beautiful. We have powerful

>>temples/churches,

>>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even

>>9 centuries old). Since we have touched this tricky

>>subject

>>I personally beleive that there is no difference

>>between the religions.

>>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound

>>(devanagari), and by means of sound one can

>>experience a state

>>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa

>>or the context, and one must have strong

>>inclinations for bhakti

>>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will

>>strongly connect to trines) Mentioning the TM, that

>>is the key to

>>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that

>>the time has come to demistify the subject. Since

>>you practice TM

>>haven't you known that mantras used in this

>>technique, are none other than names of

>>Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

>>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as

>>Lord Rama sugested in his ephic-Ramayana. There can

>>be salvation in

>>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason

>>Janaka Mantra of Hare Krishna is extremely powerful

>>as well.

>>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra.

>>which Srila Prabhupada evolved in his famous mantra.

>>I am sad to

>>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by

>>many.. But, let's return to Christianity. In Ortodox

>>tradition the

>>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus,

>>son of God, pardon my sinful personality" This

>>mantra is best

>>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as

>>suggested in some very old christian manuscripts.

>>You can try this prayer

>>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world

>>of creation is indeed phenomanal. THe essence is the

>>same, everwilling

>>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to

>>HIM

>>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take

>>hours:))

>>Best wishes

>>Zoran

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

>>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

>>email: ahimsa

>>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

>>Sat

>>:

>>gjlist-

>>

>>

>>

>>Your use of is subject to

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> Web Hosting - establish your business online

>http://webhosting.

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

email: ahimsa

web: www.sjvc.co.yu

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Hi Anna,

 

Having studied comparative religion as part of my degree, and my experience

in the world of maya, I personally see no contradiction between what Jyotish

is telling us and the true and real insights that Christ (kristos) gave us

if we have the eyes (vidya) to see. It must have been infuriating for him

that we were blind and could not hear what he was saying. I have made it my

life's personal work to attempt to understand him and to hear him throught

the veils of dogma, even without the added advantage of a training in

hermeneutics.

 

Three weeks of training on top of the Lesotho mountains (on the top of

Africa) with an order of contemplative nuns taught me more about the real

meaning of Christianity and the practice of it than years of going to church

and study.

 

A study and practice of the Santana Dharma (in my limited fashion) allowed

me to, I believe, gain a true perspective of what he was trying to tell us.

It was a rather long way around, but it got me there.

 

I attempt, as in my studies of Jyotish, to keep my prejudices and my limited

thinking at bay to find the truth of what the great sages keep telling us

for centuries!

 

Take care

Robyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

"A.R" <anmar

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:33 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Yes Robyn, you are blessed! Please let it stay that way!

> And ...so blessed you brought good new vibes here-

> and touched the core question- of making Jyotish part of our cuture,

> christianity

> I don't see any reason /other than laziness / which would prevent us

> from being ''forerunners of an amazing

> crossover between the religions."- for true knowledge belongs to all.

> Thanks for this fresh perspective /I was less able to make this 'leap' as

> clearly as you did.

> Love,

> Anna

>

>

>

>

> -----

>

> Original Message -----

> "Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

> <gjlist>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:06 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> >

> > -----John,

> >

> > Wow...i get the feeling sometimes that we scholars of Jyotish (if we

could

> > retain some form of objectivity) could be the forerunners of an amazing

> > crossover between the religions. If...and this is the crux....if we

could

> > logically and methodically prove the case. And here is the rub...how do

> you

> > do that with a science that is formulated and practised in ways that the

> > western scientific mode of thought does not accept.

> >

> > There is one methodology that would accept it: a philosophical method of

> > enquiry (accepted in the West) called phenomenology. And this is the way

I

> > am going to go.

> >

> > Its going to take years of research and backbreaking enquiry. But what

an

> > enquiry!

> >

> > Waiting for Zoran's explanation of the understanding of the Ista Devata

> from

> > a Christian perspective.

> >

> > Many thanks for the enlightening discussion. I am sitting in the York

> > countryside surrounded by the most exquisite natural beauty. Surely I am

> > blessed!

> >

> > Robyn

> >

> >

> >

> > Original Message -----

> > "John R" <jr_esq

> > <gjlist>

> > Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:12 AM

> > Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> >

> >

> > > Robyn,

> > >

> > > The classical books in jyotish already recommends many

> > > ideas (which are similar to Christianity) on how to

> > > mitigate the effects of the planets. Parasara and

> > > others recommend that one gives to charity to

> > > strengthen weak planets. For example, if one's

> > > Jupiter is weak, the person can give charitable

> > > contributins to persons or organizations signifying

> > > Jupiter, such as priests, ministers, and pastors (this

> > > applies to organizations like the Franciscans,

> > > Jesuits, and Maryknoll).

> > >

> > > In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > > as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > > states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > > nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > > doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > > master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > > self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > > Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > >

> > > Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > > compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > > Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > > accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > > our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > > tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > > experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > > experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > > the process of knowing and the known.

> > >

> > > In vedic terms, the triune dynamics of nature refer to

> > > Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and,

> > > Shiva, the destroyer. In my opinion, these ideas are

> > > not entirely foreign to Christian concepts.

> > >

> > > It is unfortunate, however, that most Christians have

> > > not fully understood the wisdom inherent in jyotish.

> > > As the rishis have state, jyotish is a "science of

> > > light".

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > John R.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- Ms RE Simpson <robyn12 wrote:

> > > > Dear Group,

> > > >

> > > > Could someone please direct me to information

> > > > (either on the www or books) on how to advise a

> > > > Christian (re prayers, etc) after an analysis of

> > > > their chart.

> > > >

> > > > And if any of our more experienced Jyotishi's have

> > > > knowledge of how Christianity (as a doctrine)

> > > > interelates with Jyotish, I would be pleased to hear

> > > > from them (off or on list).

> > > >

> > > > Many thanks

> > > > Robyn

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Web Hosting - establish your business online

> > > http://webhosting.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > : gjlist-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Your use of is subject to

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Hi John,

 

If you go to Sanjay Rath's website or the website of the SJC, you will find

Sanjay's article there on how to find your Ista Devata. Unfortunately I dont

have my Crux with me or else would write it here. Its best to buy the book

anyway as I have found it indispensable and am cursing myself for not

bringing it with me.

 

Robyn

 

 

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:08 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear John,

>

>

> >Zoran,

> >

> >We appreciate your ideas relating to this subject.

> >Personally, I'd like to know about how you translated

> >the various ishta devata to the various Christian

> >saints. There was a discussion in this list (it could

> >have been in others too) about how to determine the

> >ishta devata from the chart. Can you elaborate on

> >this again and the classical jyotish source?

> >

> >

> You cannot find such matters in classical jyotish source, since the

original

> classics are older than Christianity. My Jyotish Guru elaborated this in

> theme

> in his book: Crux of Vedic Astrology-Pt. Sanjay Rath

> Best wishes

> Zoran

>

> >I agree that all religions have a common denominator.

> >It is unfortunate many people, including Bin Laden and

> >Bush, are not able to transcend their fundamental

> >beliefs, which is the cause of the world problem

> >today. Most people limit themselves to the relative

> >confines of their religious tradition. They're not

> >able to conceive of the Absolute basis of all

> >religions.

> >

> >All differences in religious traditions are resolved

> >at the realm of the Absolute, at the higher levels of

> >consciousness.

> >

> >For these reasons above, I appreciate Maharishi's

> >teachings for identifying the source of the problems

> >in the world and providing a solution to everyone. He

> >has provided the world with a very simple technique of

> >meditation to enable everyone to act at the higher

> >levels of consciousness.

> >

> >Maharishi's mantra selections are not diametrically

> >opposed to Christian thought either. In the Christian

> >gospel, St. John states that "in the beginning was the

> >Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was

> >God."

> >

> >Regards,

> >

> >John R.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >--- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote:

> >

> >

> >>Om Namo Narayanaya,

> >>Dear Robin and John,

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>planets

> >>

> >>

> >>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh

> >>>

> >>>

> >>Yogi

> >>

> >>

> >>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be

> >>>

> >>>

> >>the

> >>

> >>

> >>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on

> >>>

> >>>

> >>the

> >>

> >>

> >>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can

> >>>

> >>>

> >>be

> >>

> >>

> >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu

> >>>

> >>>

> >>and

> >>

> >>

> >>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects

> >>>

> >>>

> >>of

> >>

> >>

> >>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing

> >>>

> >>>

> >>the

> >>

> >>

> >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the

> >>>

> >>>

> >>knower,

> >>

> >>

> >>>the process of knowing and the known.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to

> >>do it in christian way. We cannot expect

> >>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we

> >>try to say:" My path is better than yours"

> >>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent

> >>and unbounded.

> >>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic

> >>Astrology, corresponding Deities in Christian

> >>tradition.

> >>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even

> >>Maharishi Ji who is my Diksha Guru states that

> >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure

> >>PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian and Vedic Tradition are

> >>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> >>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to

> >>either Mother Marry or Christ or specific Saints,

> >>which gave wonderful results, of course determined

> >>by the procedure of Ishta Devata..

> >>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri

> >>Saraswati. SHe was even given a TM mantra of Shri

> >>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some

> >>time back she painted a female Goddess of water

> >>which

> >>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a

> >>dream of Saint Iliah who is the saint(messanger of

> >>God)

> >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is

> >>genuine Seeker, he/she will find thier ways no

> >>matter of Religion.

> >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very

> >>strong, and is beautiful. We have powerful

> >>temples/churches,

> >>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even

> >>9 centuries old). Since we have touched this tricky

> >>subject

> >>I personally beleive that there is no difference

> >>between the religions.

> >>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound

> >>(devanagari), and by means of sound one can

> >>experience a state

> >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa

> >>or the context, and one must have strong

> >>inclinations for bhakti

> >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will

> >>strongly connect to trines) Mentioning the TM, that

> >>is the key to

> >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that

> >>the time has come to demistify the subject. Since

> >>you practice TM

> >>haven't you known that mantras used in this

> >>technique, are none other than names of

> >>Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> >>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as

> >>Lord Rama sugested in his ephic-Ramayana. There can

> >>be salvation in

> >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason

> >>Janaka Mantra of Hare Krishna is extremely powerful

> >>as well.

> >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra.

> >>which Srila Prabhupada evolved in his famous mantra.

> >>I am sad to

> >>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by

> >>many.. But, let's return to Christianity. In Ortodox

> >>tradition the

> >>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus,

> >>son of God, pardon my sinful personality" This

> >>mantra is best

> >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as

> >>suggested in some very old christian manuscripts.

> >>You can try this prayer

> >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world

> >>of creation is indeed phenomanal. THe essence is the

> >>same, everwilling

> >>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to

> >>HIM

> >>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take

> >>hours:))

> >>Best wishes

> >>Zoran

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> >>email: ahimsa

> >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

> >>Sat

> >>:

> >>gjlist-

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Your use of is subject to

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Web Hosting - establish your business online

> >http://webhosting.

> >

> >

> >

> >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> >: gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --

> ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Om Namo Narayanaya,

Dear Robyn,

 

>Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including my

>invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

>lack.

>

>

I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses

 

>Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey the

>depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding interest

>of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith (in

>its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so it

>becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

>people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

>

>

We people here are born as sinners according to Chritianity. In Vedic

tradition, we are said to have many

Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans predominate in

Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in

comparison to Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine qualities).

Remember that Parashara states that

it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the humans good and bad

karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)

and Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference between

Jyotish and Astrology practised in the West.

Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric practice, while Astrology belongs to

Descending Suric practice or going away from

Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of Astrology

with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that

the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and

there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here

in the west, yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and system

which would prove astrological divine origin)

The problem here in the west is the lack of faith/beleif in God. Under

the circumstances, if reincarnation was induced by the Church,

(reincarnation is generally misunderstood concept among the westerners

who are prone to logical thinking, and tend to "intellectualize"

the theory itself.) it would be probably misunderstood by common

people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to human minds.. That is what

Saints say.

I have heard many examples of people saying: " If reincarnation exists,

let me enjoy all I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its consequences

in the lives to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite common

among ordinary westereners, are detrimental for Religion.

By adopting them, people loose faith and awe for God, which is bad. For

that reason, it is better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,

the attitude of the Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people who

are deeply involved in Christian practices must have met

with experiences of reincarnation through their own practices.

Hope this helps

Zoran

 

>As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

>matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite having

>been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that the

>arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

>doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

>people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to be

>setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently made

>an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave of

>open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

>sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising meditation

>(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

>thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

>

>Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the gap

>somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in future.

>

>Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic research

>on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted) or

>know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican II

>Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be grateful.

>

>In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question of

>Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated in

>what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong here).He

>constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

>laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

>bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a number

>of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

>

>I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

>(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there are

>for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great interest

>for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

>certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would make

>for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be a

>perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is not

>recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

>lack.

>

>Om Tat Sat

>Robyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>-

>"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

><gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

>Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

>Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

>

>

>>Om Namo Narayanaya,

>>Dear Robin and John,

>>

>>

>>

>>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

>>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

>>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

>>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

>>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

>>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

>>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

>>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

>>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

>>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

>>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

>>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

>>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

>>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

>>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

>>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

>>>the process of knowing and the known.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

>>

>>

>way. We cannot expect

>

>

>>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path is

>>

>>

>better than yours"

>

>

>>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

>>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

>>

>>

>Deities in Christian tradition.

>

>

>>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is my

>>

>>

>Diksha Guru states that

>

>

>>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

>>

>>

>and Vedic Tradition are

>

>

>>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

>>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry or

>>

>>

>Christ or specific Saints,

>

>

>>which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

>>

>>

>Ishta Devata..

>

>

>>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was even

>>

>>

>given a TM mantra of Shri

>

>

>>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted a

>>

>>

>female Goddess of water which

>

>

>>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah who

>>

>>

>is the saint(messanger of God)

>

>

>>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she will

>>

>>

>find thier ways no matter of Religion.

>

>

>>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

>>

>>

>beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

>

>

>>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

>>

>>

>Since we have touched this tricky subject

>

>

>>I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

>>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

>>

>>

>means of sound one can experience a state

>

>

>>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

>>

>>

>one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

>

>

>>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

>>

>>

>trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

>

>

>>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

>>

>>

>demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

>

>

>>haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other than

>>

>>

>names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

>

>

>>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

>>

>>

>his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

>

>

>>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of Hare

>>

>>

>Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

>

>

>>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila Prabhupada

>>

>>

>evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

>

>

>>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's return

>>

>>

>to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

>

>

>>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon my

>>

>>

>sinful personality" This mantra is best

>

>

>>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

>>

>>

>christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

>

>

>>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

>>

>>

>phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

>

>

>>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

>>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

>>Best wishes

>>Zoran

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

>>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

>>email: ahimsa

>>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>>: gjlist-

>>

>>

>>

>>Your use of is subject to

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

email: ahimsa

web: www.sjvc.co.yu

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Dear Zoran,

 

Thanks. yes, it makes sense that western astrology lost its credibility

within the church because of its moving away from its religious base.

 

I have much reading to do!

 

Take care and lets pray for peace over the next few days

Robyn

 

 

-

"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:28 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Om Namo Narayanaya,

> Dear Robyn,

>

> >Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including

my

> >invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy the

> >lack.

> >

> >

> I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses

>

> >Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey

the

> >depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

interest

> >of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith

(in

> >its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so

it

> >becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so many

> >people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

> >

> >

> We people here are born as sinners according to Chritianity. In Vedic

> tradition, we are said to have many

> Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans predominate in

> Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in

> comparison to Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine qualities).

> Remember that Parashara states that

> it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the humans good and bad

> karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)

> and Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference between

> Jyotish and Astrology practised in the West.

> Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric practice, while Astrology belongs to

> Descending Suric practice or going away from

> Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of Astrology

> with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that

> the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and

> there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here

> in the west, yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and system

> which would prove astrological divine origin)

> The problem here in the west is the lack of faith/beleif in God. Under

> the circumstances, if reincarnation was induced by the Church,

> (reincarnation is generally misunderstood concept among the westerners

> who are prone to logical thinking, and tend to "intellectualize"

> the theory itself.) it would be probably misunderstood by common

> people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to human minds.. That is what

> Saints say.

> I have heard many examples of people saying: " If reincarnation exists,

> let me enjoy all I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its consequences

> in the lives to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite common

> among ordinary westereners, are detrimental for Religion.

> By adopting them, people loose faith and awe for God, which is bad. For

> that reason, it is better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,

> the attitude of the Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people who

> are deeply involved in Christian practices must have met

> with experiences of reincarnation through their own practices.

> Hope this helps

> Zoran

>

> >As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought no

> >matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

having

> >been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe that

the

> >arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> >doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

> >people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems to

be

> >setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently

made

> >an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave

of

> >open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

> >sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising

meditation

> >(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

> >thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

> >

> >Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the

gap

> >somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

future.

> >

> >Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

research

> >on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was accepted)

or

> >know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican

II

> >Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be

grateful.

> >

> >In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in question

of

> >Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and isolated

in

> >what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

here).He

> >constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> >laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

> >bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

number

> >of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter alia).

> >

> >I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> >(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there

are

> >for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

interest

> >for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is no

> >certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would

make

> >for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to be

a

> >perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time is

not

> >recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of this

> >lack.

> >

> >Om Tat Sat

> >Robyn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >-

> >"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> ><gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> >Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> >Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>Om Namo Narayanaya,

> >>Dear Robin and John,

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> >>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> >>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> >>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> >>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> >>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> >>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> >>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> >>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> >>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> >>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> >>>the process of knowing and the known.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in christian

> >>

> >>

> >way. We cannot expect

> >

> >

> >>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path

is

> >>

> >>

> >better than yours"

> >

> >

> >>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> >>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> >>

> >>

> >Deities in Christian tradition.

> >

> >

> >>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who is

my

> >>

> >>

> >Diksha Guru states that

> >

> >

> >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both Christian

> >>

> >>

> >and Vedic Tradition are

> >

> >

> >>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> >>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry

or

> >>

> >>

> >Christ or specific Saints,

> >

> >

> >>which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

> >>

> >>

> >Ishta Devata..

> >

> >

> >>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was

even

> >>

> >>

> >given a TM mantra of Shri

> >

> >

> >>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she painted

a

> >>

> >>

> >female Goddess of water which

> >

> >

> >>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah

who

> >>

> >>

> >is the saint(messanger of God)

> >

> >

> >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

will

> >>

> >>

> >find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> >

> >

> >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> >>

> >>

> >beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> >

> >

> >>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

> >>

> >>

> >Since we have touched this tricky subject

> >

> >

> >>I personally beleive that there is no difference between the religions.

> >>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

> >>

> >>

> >means of sound one can experience a state

> >

> >

> >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context, and

> >>

> >>

> >one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> >

> >

> >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> >>

> >>

> >trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> >

> >

> >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

> >>

> >>

> >demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> >

> >

> >>haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other

than

> >>

> >>

> >names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> >

> >

> >>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested in

> >>

> >>

> >his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> >

> >

> >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

Hare

> >>

> >>

> >Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> >

> >

> >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

Prabhupada

> >>

> >>

> >evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> >

> >

> >>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

return

> >>

> >>

> >to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> >

> >

> >>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon

my

> >>

> >>

> >sinful personality" This mantra is best

> >

> >

> >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very old

> >>

> >>

> >christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> >

> >

> >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is indeed

> >>

> >>

> >phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> >

> >

> >>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> >>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> >>Best wishes

> >>Zoran

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> >>email: ahimsa

> >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> >>: gjlist-

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Your use of is subject to

 

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> >: gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --

> ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> email: ahimsa

> web: www.sjvc.co.yu

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

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Hi all

I've been out of town and have not read all of these interesting posts. I

would offer a couple of ideas.

 

First, in its most simple state, Christianity offered a revolutionary idea:

One lifetime. You can live a good life of love, charity and faith then go to

heaven regardless of your past, past lives or family. With that in mind,

how could a system of knowledge that asserts anything about predestiny fit

with the church's teachings? Perhaps they knew the potential limitation of

astrologers and the potential for astrology to limit a person's faith?

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

I believe that the church allowed astrology to coexist as a tool for medical

diagnosis. Still, it is difficult to make sense of the fearful and

egotistical actions of zealous religious leaders. The teachings of Christ

should not be confused with the power-crazed leaders and bloody hands of

zealots.

 

I realize I am too tiered to string words together.

look forward to more of this discussion.

c

 

 

-

"Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

<gjlist>

Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:21 PM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Dear Zoran,

>

> Thanks. yes, it makes sense that western astrology lost its credibility

> within the church because of its moving away from its religious base.

>

> I have much reading to do!

>

> Take care and lets pray for peace over the next few days

> Robyn

>

>

> -

> "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> <gjlist>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:28 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > Dear Robyn,

> >

> > >Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA including

> my

> > >invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy

the

> > >lack.

> > >

> > >

> > I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses

> >

> > >Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to convey

> the

> > >depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

> interest

> > >of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian faith

> (in

> > >its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And so

> it

> > >becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so

many

> > >people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

> > >

> > >

> > We people here are born as sinners according to Chritianity. In Vedic

> > tradition, we are said to have many

> > Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans predominate in

> > Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in

> > comparison to Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine qualities).

> > Remember that Parashara states that

> > it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the humans good and bad

> > karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)

> > and Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference between

> > Jyotish and Astrology practised in the West.

> > Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric practice, while Astrology belongs to

> > Descending Suric practice or going away from

> > Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of Astrology

> > with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that

> > the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and

> > there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here

> > in the west, yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and system

> > which would prove astrological divine origin)

> > The problem here in the west is the lack of faith/beleif in God. Under

> > the circumstances, if reincarnation was induced by the Church,

> > (reincarnation is generally misunderstood concept among the westerners

> > who are prone to logical thinking, and tend to "intellectualize"

> > the theory itself.) it would be probably misunderstood by common

> > people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to human minds.. That is what

> > Saints say.

> > I have heard many examples of people saying: " If reincarnation exists,

> > let me enjoy all I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its

consequences

> > in the lives to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite common

> > among ordinary westereners, are detrimental for Religion.

> > By adopting them, people loose faith and awe for God, which is bad. For

> > that reason, it is better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,

> > the attitude of the Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people who

> > are deeply involved in Christian practices must have met

> > with experiences of reincarnation through their own practices.

> > Hope this helps

> > Zoran

> >

> > >As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new thought

no

> > >matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

> having

> > >been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe

that

> the

> > >arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> > >doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak to

> > >people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems

to

> be

> > >setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been recently

> made

> > >an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new wave

> of

> > >open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level my

> > >sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising

> meditation

> > >(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago she

> > >thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

> > >

> > >Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge the

> gap

> > >somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

> future.

> > >

> > >Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

> research

> > >on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was

accepted)

> or

> > >know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the Vatican

> II

> > >Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be

> grateful.

> > >

> > >In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in

question

> of

> > >Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and

isolated

> in

> > >what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

> here).He

> > >constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> > >laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit the

> > >bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

> number

> > >of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter

alia).

> > >

> > >I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> > >(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications there

> are

> > >for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

> interest

> > >for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is

no

> > >certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it would

> make

> > >for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going to

be

> a

> > >perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time

is

> not

> > >recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of

this

> > >lack.

> > >

> > >Om Tat Sat

> > >Robyn

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >-

> > >"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> > ><gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> > >Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> > >Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > >>Dear Robin and John,

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > >>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > >>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > >>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > >>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > >>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > >>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > >>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > >>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > >>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > >>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > >>>the process of knowing and the known.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in

christian

> > >>

> > >>

> > >way. We cannot expect

> > >

> > >

> > >>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My path

> is

> > >>

> > >>

> > >better than yours"

> > >

> > >

> > >>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> > >>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Deities in Christian tradition.

> > >

> > >

> > >>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who

is

> my

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Diksha Guru states that

> > >

> > >

> > >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both

Christian

> > >>

> > >>

> > >and Vedic Tradition are

> > >

> > >

> > >>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > >>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother Marry

> or

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Christ or specific Saints,

> > >

> > >

> > >>which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure of

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Ishta Devata..

> > >

> > >

> > >>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe was

> even

> > >>

> > >>

> > >given a TM mantra of Shri

> > >

> > >

> > >>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she

painted

> a

> > >>

> > >>

> > >female Goddess of water which

> > >

> > >

> > >>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint Iliah

> who

> > >>

> > >>

> > >is the saint(messanger of God)

> > >

> > >

> > >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

> will

> > >>

> > >>

> > >find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > >

> > >

> > >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> > >>

> > >>

> > >beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > >

> > >

> > >>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries old).

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > >

> > >

> > >>I personally beleive that there is no difference between the

religions.

> > >>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and by

> > >>

> > >>

> > >means of sound one can experience a state

> > >

> > >

> > >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context,

and

> > >>

> > >>

> > >one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > >

> > >

> > >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> > >>

> > >>

> > >trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > >

> > >

> > >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come to

> > >>

> > >>

> > >demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > >

> > >

> > >>haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none other

> than

> > >>

> > >>

> > >names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > >

> > >

> > >>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested

in

> > >>

> > >>

> > >his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > >

> > >

> > >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

> Hare

> > >>

> > >>

> > >Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > >

> > >

> > >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

> Prabhupada

> > >>

> > >>

> > >evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > >

> > >

> > >>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

> return

> > >>

> > >>

> > >to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > >

> > >

> > >>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God, pardon

> my

> > >>

> > >>

> > >sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > >

> > >

> > >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very

old

> > >>

> > >>

> > >christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > >

> > >

> > >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is

indeed

> > >>

> > >>

> > >phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > >

> > >

> > >>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > >>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > >>Best wishes

> > >>Zoran

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > >>email: ahimsa

> > >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > >>: gjlist-

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>Your use of is subject to

>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > >: gjlist-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Your use of is subject to

 

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > --

> > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > email: ahimsa

> > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Cynthia,

 

You obviously must have a number of Christians who come to you for advice.

What do you tell them about reincarnation? How do you get over the pervasive

horror that many have of astrology?

 

I once completed the Alpha course in RSA and was prayed over (by my course

leader) because I was studying Hinduism, my grandfather had been a freemason

(very good, solid, sound man), and that I had an interest in astrology (ie

put it in my magazine) . I was told that unless I rid myself of these 'sins'

there was little hope for my redemption.

 

These actions of this leader bear no relation on the soundness of the Alpha

course. It was the actions of one particular personality. However, it really

soured my relationship with that particular church and I did not go back.

Hardly a recipe for encouraging the spread of Christianity.

 

Needless to say, I did not return.

 

I would be very interested to know how you deal with these things.

Robyn

 

 

-

"cynthianovak" <cynthianovak

<gjlist>

Monday, March 17, 2003 3:41 AM

Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

 

 

> Hi all

> I've been out of town and have not read all of these interesting posts. I

> would offer a couple of ideas.

>

> First, in its most simple state, Christianity offered a revolutionary

idea:

> One lifetime. You can live a good life of love, charity and faith then go

to

> heaven regardless of your past, past lives or family. With that in mind,

> how could a system of knowledge that asserts anything about predestiny fit

> with the church's teachings? Perhaps they knew the potential limitation

of

> astrologers and the potential for astrology to limit a person's faith?

>

> Just a few thoughts.

>

> I believe that the church allowed astrology to coexist as a tool for

medical

> diagnosis. Still, it is difficult to make sense of the fearful and

> egotistical actions of zealous religious leaders. The teachings of Christ

> should not be confused with the power-crazed leaders and bloody hands of

> zealots.

>

> I realize I am too tiered to string words together.

> look forward to more of this discussion.

> c

>

>

> -

> "Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

> <gjlist>

> Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:21 PM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Dear Zoran,

> >

> > Thanks. yes, it makes sense that western astrology lost its credibility

> > within the church because of its moving away from its religious base.

> >

> > I have much reading to do!

> >

> > Take care and lets pray for peace over the next few days

> > Robyn

> >

> >

> > -

> > "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> > <gjlist>

> > Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:28 AM

> > Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> >

> >

> > > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > > Dear Robyn,

> > >

> > > >Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA

including

> > my

> > > >invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can remedy

> the

> > > >lack.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses

> > >

> > > >Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to

convey

> > the

> > > >depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

> > interest

> > > >of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian

faith

> > (in

> > > >its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation. And

so

> > it

> > > >becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive so

> many

> > > >people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > We people here are born as sinners according to Chritianity. In Vedic

> > > tradition, we are said to have many

> > > Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans predominate in

> > > Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in

> > > comparison to Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine

qualities).

> > > Remember that Parashara states that

> > > it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the humans good and bad

> > > karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)

> > > and Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference between

> > > Jyotish and Astrology practised in the West.

> > > Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric practice, while Astrology belongs

to

> > > Descending Suric practice or going away from

> > > Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of Astrology

> > > with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that

> > > the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and

> > > there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here

> > > in the west, yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and

system

> > > which would prove astrological divine origin)

> > > The problem here in the west is the lack of faith/beleif in God. Under

> > > the circumstances, if reincarnation was induced by the Church,

> > > (reincarnation is generally misunderstood concept among the westerners

> > > who are prone to logical thinking, and tend to "intellectualize"

> > > the theory itself.) it would be probably misunderstood by common

> > > people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to human minds.. That is

what

> > > Saints say.

> > > I have heard many examples of people saying: " If reincarnation

exists,

> > > let me enjoy all I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its

> consequences

> > > in the lives to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite common

> > > among ordinary westereners, are detrimental for Religion.

> > > By adopting them, people loose faith and awe for God, which is bad.

For

> > > that reason, it is better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,

> > > the attitude of the Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people

who

> > > are deeply involved in Christian practices must have met

> > > with experiences of reincarnation through their own practices.

> > > Hope this helps

> > > Zoran

> > >

> > > >As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new

thought

> no

> > > >matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies despite

> > having

> > > >been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe

> that

> > the

> > > >arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries of

> > > >doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak

to

> > > >people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury seems

> to

> > be

> > > >setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been

recently

> > made

> > > >an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new

wave

> > of

> > > >open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal level

my

> > > >sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising

> > meditation

> > > >(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago

she

> > > >thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

> > > >

> > > >Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge

the

> > gap

> > > >somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

> > future.

> > > >

> > > >Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

> > research

> > > >on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was

> accepted)

> > or

> > > >know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the

Vatican

> > II

> > > >Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be

> > grateful.

> > > >

> > > >In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in

> question

> > of

> > > >Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and

> isolated

> > in

> > > >what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

> > here).He

> > > >constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him) of

> > > >laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit

the

> > > >bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on a

> > number

> > > >of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter

> alia).

> > > >

> > > >I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> > > >(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications

there

> > are

> > > >for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

> > interest

> > > >for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there is

> no

> > > >certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it

would

> > make

> > > >for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going

to

> be

> > a

> > > >perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the time

> is

> > not

> > > >recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of

> this

> > > >lack.

> > > >

> > > >Om Tat Sat

> > > >Robyn

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >-

> > > >"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> > > ><gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> > > >Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> > > >Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > > >>Dear Robin and John,

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > > >>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > > >>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > > >>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > > >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > > >>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > > >>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > > >>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > > >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > > >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > > >>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > > >>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > > >>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > > >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > > >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > > >>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > > >>>the process of knowing and the known.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in

> christian

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >way. We cannot expect

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My

path

> > is

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >better than yours"

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and unbounded.

> > > >>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology, corresponding

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Deities in Christian tradition.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji who

> is

> > my

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Diksha Guru states that

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both

> Christian

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >and Vedic Tradition are

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > > >>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother

Marry

> > or

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Christ or specific Saints,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the procedure

of

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Ishta Devata..

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe

was

> > even

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >given a TM mantra of Shri

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she

> painted

> > a

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >female Goddess of water which

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint

Iliah

> > who

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >is the saint(messanger of God)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker, he/she

> > will

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries

old).

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>I personally beleive that there is no difference between the

> religions.

> > > >>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari), and

by

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >means of sound one can experience a state

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the context,

> and

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect to

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has come

to

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none

other

> > than

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama sugested

> in

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra of

> > Hare

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

> > Prabhupada

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

> > return

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God,

pardon

> > my

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some very

> old

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is

> indeed

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > > >>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > > >>Best wishes

> > > >>Zoran

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > > >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > > >>email: ahimsa

> > > >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > >>: gjlist-

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>Your use of is subject to

> >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > >: gjlist-

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Your use of is subject to

>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > > email: ahimsa

> > > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > : gjlist-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Your use of is subject to

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

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Dear Robyn,

Yes, most of my clients are Christians, although only a few could be called

fundamentalists. I'll try to answer your questions one-by-one

---- Original Message -----

 

> Hi Cynthia,

>

> You obviously must have a number of Christians who come to you for advice.

> What do you tell them about reincarnation? How do you get over the

pervasive

> horror that many have of astrology?

 

If they are coming to see me they are not horrified. I would guess that

most Christians are more tolerant. I have my Moon in Purva Ashada (Abijit)

and the words "all gods" would describe my clients. I have had a Catholic

priest and a couple of nuns; a buddhist monk, a few Baptist music ministers

as well as the Hari Krishnas. Most people have faith without being

religious or they simply do not come to me.

 

When someone is fearful, typically they want to come but they were told by

their fundamentalist minister as a child or adult that astrology is

virtually every other religion is evil. This is ignorance in my opinion. I

usually tell them the truth, I am not a fortune teller. In Deuteronomy, the

passage most quoted to induce fear, they are advised not to go to fortune

tellers. Literally, he says: bring them to me and I will test them. This

is also not a problem for me. I tell anyone, if you do not feel you will

get a valuable session you can walk away after 10 minutes and not pay me

anything. AGain, this helps allay the fears.

 

>

> I once completed the Alpha course in RSA and was prayed over (by my course

> leader) because I was studying Hinduism, my grandfather had been a

freemason

> (very good, solid, sound man), and that I had an interest in astrology (ie

> put it in my magazine) . I was told that unless I rid myself of these

'sins'

> there was little hope for my redemption.

 

In my experience this is not the rule. However, Buz Myers and other

prominent astrologers have had the same experience so you are in good

company. USually these folks are not coming for a consultation so you are

safe. If I think about any religion too long my thoughts are soured. My

experience of most people is acceptance and tolerance. The longer I have

done this the more confident and so the fewer words upset me. One engineer

at a singles mixer about 9 years ago announced that I could do his chart for

him and he would write down many things about himself and so I could be

tested. My response went something like this: "Let me get this straight, I

should do a free consultation for you so you can have the satisfaction of

testing me?" He slunk away into a corner.

 

I write astrologer as my profession most of the time, but confess to using

"consultant" with the mortgage company. It took me years to tell my

sweetie's Baptist family members what I really did for a living, and then

only when I was asked directly. They were interested and accepting. Why go

there until you are ready. Let the people who are inclined or led to you

come to you.

 

I know I'm babbling, but I remember how difficult this can be. My experience

has been that whenever I define a groups as "those" people I would have a

member of that group come for a session and I would abruptly learn how

judgemental I can be and how wrong that is. People are people. One on one,

heart to heart. The concern comes when there is a tribe or a mob. I live

in the south where there are many fundamentalist groups. I advertise in

holistic paper and trust word of mouth.

 

Oh, I did have a man offer to pray for me. I said "that sounds nice, I

would appreciate the positive energy." He coorected me and advised that

this would be to save my soul and so give him big points at his judgement

day!

I usually allow the client to bring up reincarnation if they are so

inclined. There is plenty to work with in this life.

Great smiles. cynthia

>

> These actions of this leader bear no relation on the soundness of the

Alpha

> course. It was the actions of one particular personality. However, it

really

> soured my relationship with that particular church and I did not go back.

> Hardly a recipe for encouraging the spread of Christianity.

>

> Needless to say, I did not return.

>

> I would be very interested to know how you deal with these things.

> Robyn

>

>

> -

> "cynthianovak" <cynthianovak

> <gjlist>

> Monday, March 17, 2003 3:41 AM

> Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

>

>

> > Hi all

> > I've been out of town and have not read all of these interesting posts.

I

> > would offer a couple of ideas.

> >

> > First, in its most simple state, Christianity offered a revolutionary

> idea:

> > One lifetime. You can live a good life of love, charity and faith then

go

> to

> > heaven regardless of your past, past lives or family. With that in

mind,

> > how could a system of knowledge that asserts anything about predestiny

fit

> > with the church's teachings? Perhaps they knew the potential limitation

> of

> > astrologers and the potential for astrology to limit a person's faith?

> >

> > Just a few thoughts.

> >

> > I believe that the church allowed astrology to coexist as a tool for

> medical

> > diagnosis. Still, it is difficult to make sense of the fearful and

> > egotistical actions of zealous religious leaders. The teachings of

Christ

> > should not be confused with the power-crazed leaders and bloody hands of

> > zealots.

> >

> > I realize I am too tiered to string words together.

> > look forward to more of this discussion.

> > c

> >

> >

> > -

> > "Ms RE Simpson" <robyn12

> > <gjlist>

> > Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:21 PM

> > Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> >

> >

> > > Dear Zoran,

> > >

> > > Thanks. yes, it makes sense that western astrology lost its

credibility

> > > within the church because of its moving away from its religious base.

> > >

> > > I have much reading to do!

> > >

> > > Take care and lets pray for peace over the next few days

> > > Robyn

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > "Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> > > <gjlist>

> > > Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:28 AM

> > > Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> > >

> > >

> > > > Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > > > Dear Robyn,

> > > >

> > > > >Unfortunately, Zoran, I have had to leave all my books in RSA

> including

> > > my

> > > > >invaluable Crux. I shall pursue this when i get to USA and can

remedy

> > the

> > > > >lack.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > I think it is either in delination of 5th/12th houses

> > > >

> > > > >Ever since I began my studies of Jyotish this question of how to

> convey

> > > the

> > > > >depth and spirituality of Jyotish to Christians has been an abiding

> > > interest

> > > > >of mine. The big stumbling block of course is that the Christian

> faith

> > > (in

> > > > >its doctrine as currently stated) does not accept reincarnation.

And

> so

> > > it

> > > > >becomes an almost impossible hurdle to get over. And thus deprive

so

> > many

> > > > >people of the remedial efficacy of Jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > We people here are born as sinners according to Chritianity. In

Vedic

> > > > tradition, we are said to have many

> > > > Asuric(demonical) traits which is the same. So humans predominate in

> > > > Jeevaatmamsa (or human qualities) in

> > > > comparison to Grahas who predominate in Paramatmamsa (divine

> qualities).

> > > > Remember that Parashara states that

> > > > it was God who created NavaGrahas to deliver the humans good and bad

> > > > karmas..So we iqual in Asuric (demonical)

> > > > and Suric (divine) qualities. Now, there is a big difference

between

> > > > Jyotish and Astrology practised in the West.

> > > > Jyotisha belongs to Ascending Suric practice, while Astrology

belongs

> to

> > > > Descending Suric practice or going away from

> > > > Divine. Why is so? Today in western system, a strong link of

Astrology

> > > > with God is missing. For that reason, it is normal that

> > > > the Church would not recognize it. (This is a general statement, and

> > > > there are individuals who try to link Astrology to God here

> > > > in the west, yet the problem is the lack of traditional base and

> system

> > > > which would prove astrological divine origin)

> > > > The problem here in the west is the lack of faith/beleif in God.

Under

> > > > the circumstances, if reincarnation was induced by the Church,

> > > > (reincarnation is generally misunderstood concept among the

westerners

> > > > who are prone to logical thinking, and tend to "intellectualize"

> > > > the theory itself.) it would be probably misunderstood by common

> > > > people.The laws of Karma are unfathomable to human minds.. That is

> what

> > > > Saints say.

> > > > I have heard many examples of people saying: " If reincarnation

> exists,

> > > > let me enjoy all I can in this lifetime, and I shall pay its

> > consequences

> > > > in the lives to come" Such concepts which are beleive me quite

common

> > > > among ordinary westereners, are detrimental for Religion.

> > > > By adopting them, people loose faith and awe for God, which is bad.

> For

> > > > that reason, it is better for the general wellbeing of spirituality,

> > > > the attitude of the Church towards reincarnation. Otherwise, people

> who

> > > > are deeply involved in Christian practices must have met

> > > > with experiences of reincarnation through their own practices.

> > > > Hope this helps

> > > > Zoran

> > > >

> > > > >As can be seen in my own chart, I have always been open to new

> thought

> > no

> > > > >matter how controversial and so this did not stop my studies

despite

> > > having

> > > > >been brought up in the High Anglican Church. ( I personally believe

> > that

> > > the

> > > > >arena of high mystical thought and belief overrides all boundaries

of

> > > > >doctrine). But...it is proving to be a stumbling block when I speak

> to

> > > > >people who want help. Luckily, the new archbishop of Canterbury

seems

> > to

> > > be

> > > > >setting a new tone for anglicans around the world (having been

> recently

> > > made

> > > > >an honorary Druid and accepting it) and hopefully we can see a new

> wave

> > > of

> > > > >open-minded enquiry from the Church in future. On the personal

level

> my

> > > > >sister (a staunch anglican) is now even admitting to practising

> > > meditation

> > > > >(and is in fact now teaching it in her church) whereas 20 years ago

> she

> > > > >thought I was going straight to hell for doing it myself!

> > > > >

> > > > >Obviously this is an arena that is begging for research - to bridge

> the

> > > gap

> > > > >somehow - and I shall most certainly be attempting to study this in

> > > future.

> > > > >

> > > > >Zoran, if you come across, or know of, any solid, accepted academic

> > > research

> > > > >on the gnostic gospels (in which apparently re-incarnation was

> > accepted)

> > > or

> > > > >know of where I can find out where it is stated that during the

> Vatican

> > > II

> > > > >Council all references to reincarnation were removed, i would be

> > > grateful.

> > > > >

> > > > >In the meantime, I have set a tentative lagna for the person in

> > question

> > > of

> > > > >Aries with SaR/Ke in lagna and Moon under tremendous threat and

> > isolated

> > > in

> > > > >what appears to be a papakari yoga (please correct me if I am wrong

> > > here).He

> > > > >constantly complained (even in the short 24 hours that I knew him)

of

> > > > >laziness, lack of motivation, etc, etc and that SaR/Ke seems to fit

> the

> > > > >bill. This puts MeR/Su in the 8th house which also seems to fit on

a

> > > number

> > > > >of levels (inherited from the father, early death of father, inter

> > alia).

> > > > >

> > > > >I would like to put forward a suggestion if anyone has the time

> > > > >(LOL)....that we take this as the lagna and see what indications

> there

> > > are

> > > > >for schizophrenia. I would follow any reasoned analysis with great

> > > interest

> > > > >for future reference in my studies. I realise of course that there

is

> > no

> > > > >certainty in this analysis because of lack of birth time, but it

> would

> > > make

> > > > >for an interesting analysis if I could learn from this. It is going

> to

> > be

> > > a

> > > > >perennial problem this lack of birth time in a country where the

time

> > is

> > > not

> > > > >recorded at birth. I simply cannot stop analysing charts because of

> > this

> > > > >lack.

> > > > >

> > > > >Om Tat Sat

> > > > >Robyn

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >-

> > > > >"Zoran Radosavljevic" <ahimsa

> > > > ><gjlist>; <Vedic Astrology>

> > > > >Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:44 AM

> > > > >Re: [GJ] christianity and jyotish (for Robyn)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Om Namo Narayanaya,

> > > > >>Dear Robin and John,

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>>In more objective terms, one can interpret the planets

> > > > >>>as impulses of intelligence as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

> > > > >>>states. These impulses are generic (part of human

> > > > >>>nature) and are not confined to specific religious

> > > > >>>doctrine. As such, it is possible for one to be the

> > > > >>>master of natural law (the impulses from one's own

> > > > >>>self). You should read Maharishi's commentary on the

> > > > >>>Gita to fully understand his ideas.

> > > > >>>Christian prayers (which relate to the Trinity) can be

> > > > >>>compared to the vedic concepts of Brahma, Vishnu and

> > > > >>>Shiva. In my opinion, the Trinity, aside from the

> > > > >>>accepted Christian theology, also refers to aspects of

> > > > >>>our self-- in that we are capable of experiencing the

> > > > >>>tiune dynamics of nature. Specifically, we are the

> > > > >>>experiencer, the process of the experience and the

> > > > >>>experienced. In another vein, we are the the knower,

> > > > >>>the process of knowing and the known.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>This is true.Yet,there are people who will prefer to do it in

> > christian

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >way. We cannot expect

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>everyone to accept Vedic knolwedge, nor should we try to say:" My

> path

> > > is

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >better than yours"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>This is opposite to nature of God who is omnipresent and

unbounded.

> > > > >>Pt. Sanjay Rath states in his Crux of Vedic Astrology,

corresponding

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Deities in Christian tradition.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>This works wonderfully (I applied it). Further even Maharishi Ji

who

> > is

> > > my

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Diksha Guru states that

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Christ was the latest Krishna Avatar (pure PARAMATMAMSA) Both

> > Christian

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >and Vedic Tradition are

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>awaiting the next appearance of new Avatar.

> > > > >>Beleive me, I have advised people to do prayers to either Mother

> Marry

> > > or

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Christ or specific Saints,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>which gave wonderful results, of course determined by the

procedure

> of

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Ishta Devata..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Yesterday I spoke to my friend whose Ishta Is Shri Saraswati. SHe

> was

> > > even

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >given a TM mantra of Shri

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Saraswati in initiation. She is an artist and some time back she

> > painted

> > > a

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >female Goddess of water which

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>was all alike Shri Saraswati.. However, she had a dream of Saint

> Iliah

> > > who

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >is the saint(messanger of God)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Does it sound as Mercury? So when a person is genuine Seeker,

he/she

> > > will

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >find thier ways no matter of Religion.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>In Serbia where I live, an ortodox religion is very strong, and is

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >beautiful. We have powerful temples/churches,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>where one can feel spritual upliftment(some are even 9 centuries

> old).

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Since we have touched this tricky subject

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>I personally beleive that there is no difference between the

> > religions.

> > > > >>In vedic tradition, the mantras have strong sound (devanagari),

and

> by

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >means of sound one can experience a state

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>of samadhi. In christian tradition focus is on rupa or the

context,

> > and

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >one must have strong inclinations for bhakti

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>(see Vimshams varga- where Chandra/shukra will strongly connect

to

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >trines) Mentioning the TM, that is the key to

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>success- Nama- vibration of God, and I think that the time has

come

> to

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >demistify the subject. Since you practice TM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>haven't you known that mantras used in this technique, are none

> other

> > > than

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >names of Krishna/Rama, and their Shaktis

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Radha, Lakshmi, Durga and Saraswati? Therefore as Lord Rama

sugested

> > in

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >his ephic-Ramayana. There can be salvation in

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>this Kali Yuga only by Name of God. For that reason Janaka Mantra

of

> > > Hare

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >Krishna is extremely powerful as well.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>Hare Rama Krishna-shadakshari-six lettered mantra. which Srila

> > > Prabhupada

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >evolved in his famous mantra. I am sad to

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>see that his teaching was misunderstood today by many.. But, let's

> > > return

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >to Christianity. In Ortodox tradition the

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>most saintly mantra or prayer says: " O Lord Jesus, son of God,

> pardon

> > > my

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >sinful personality" This mantra is best

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>thought in the heart area (hridaya chakra) as suggested in some

very

> > old

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >christian manuscripts. You can try this prayer

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>and will see the wonders.. So the phenomenal world of creation is

> > indeed

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >phenomanal. THe essence is the same, everwilling

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >>love of God offering numerous ways to attract us to HIM

> > > > >>I should stop now, otherwise this mail will take hours:))

> > > > >>Best wishes

> > > > >>Zoran

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > > > >>Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > > > >>email: ahimsa

> > > > >>web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > > >>: gjlist-

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>Your use of is subject to

> > >

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > > >: gjlist-

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Your use of is subject to

> >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > ZORAN RADOSAVLJEVIC

> > > > Jyotish Teacher of Shree Jagannath Vedic Centre

> > > > email: ahimsa

> > > > web: www.sjvc.co.yu

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > > : gjlist-

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your use of is subject to

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > : gjlist-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Your use of is subject to

>

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

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