RE: ASG-Angular planets

February 22, 2003

Dear Ron,

It’s well know

that ‘angularity’ in any chart- natal, event…- is the most

important. And yes, it does make sense that planet which is malefic for the

chart, as per jyotish chart,

when angular would be harmful-

that’s valuable tool, indeed. There is a tendency in western astrology,

as you said, to consider Venus and Jupiter line the most beneficial ones- but

it’s been questioned by many /Donna Cunningham, for ex/ already.

I am surprised that

you found Minor Progressions work, and ‘Majors’ don’t-

Do you consider direct

and conversed /majors/? They work, powerfully- Richard Houck had a very good

reason to use them. Have you ever seen progressed planet conj. with an angle

/MC, IC, ASC/DESC/ not working? Or Progr. Sun sign change not bringing tangible

results? I haven’t.

Yes MP, as a derivate

of Majors, do work- effects are on the small scale- of course- perhaps, if you

are studying events, MP, covering the short time span, will work better- as

they are meant to work in small time frame, only.

But it seems we are

too much into western for this jyotish forum-

important thing is that vedic adds valuable tool in

interpreting initially western /valuable/ technique, as your experience seems

to confirm.

A.

10.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">

RonGaunt [rongaunt (AT) optushome (DOT) com.au]

Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:01 AM

gjlist

Re: [GJ] ASG-Angular plannets

Anna,

Please see comments ** .......... **

Ron Gaunt

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:20:03 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Ron,

>

>Thanks for the message. I understand you better

now /I was on a

>different side, I see now/- oh, I've been quite

aware of the fact that

>parans in

astrology ARE most powerful. And critical happenings do

>happen /J.F Kennedy/ on locations, where angular

placement for the

>crucial planet happens. It follows Gaugelin work

on angularity- and

>indeed change in location, bringing planets on the

angles /J.Lewis

>work/, does change personal 'destiny'.. I don't

know if you are familiar

>with "Transcendental planets'

>Research, which powerfully demonstrates how

transcendental planets- the

>least aspected planets in the chart, act

powerfully on certain locations

>when it's placed angularly. But that's just

further development from the

>basic research on angularity.

]

** No I have never studied 'transcendental

planets'. However,

I

am

not surprised when any planet acts powerfully when it is

angular.

**

>

>That made me get AGC Software at the first place.

I've been very happy

>with results, although they are based on western

charts. And it can be

>done with sideral, too, as Rober Koch, whom I talk

to about this,

>suggests.

>Than we can consider angular planets for certain

locations, and

>choose/avoid certain locations based on their

nature in our own

>horoscope.

** Locality certainly works with Sidereal. In fact much better

than Tropical because one gets the correct Lordships. I have

frequently found a tragedy occurring on a marvelously benefic

Jupiter line by Tropical method, but which was actually a

functional malefic by the Sidereal method. **

>

>That's quite amazing area- and I do not have any

doubt that it really

>works.

>It doesn't seem to me that it's been dealt with in

jyotish.

** It is true that Hindu astrologers traditionally do

not take

into account re-location.

I suppose this is due to the fact

that in early days few people travelled very far afield. **

>

>------

>----

>Now that I am on locational- relocational side, I

would like to ask you

>and everyone, the question about Varshapal-

>

>Used to using 'current' location for solar return,

I was surprised to

>see that in V. no matter if you relocated far away

from the place of

>birth, birth location is used.

>

>What's your experience with this? Have anybody

tried to use sideral

>solar return for actual location where the person

live?

>

>I would appreciate more information on this.

>

>Thanks.

>Anna

** I use Sidereal Solar Returns and prefer to use the

relocated

location. **

>

>RonGaunt [rongaunt (AT) optushome (DOT) com.au]

>Friday, February 21, 2003 9:19 PM

>gjlistt

>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>

>Anna,

>

>I think that Parans are the MOST important of ALL

aspects. This

>includes close conjunctions, because of course

these are Parans

>in their own right with the added power of transit

to the angles.

>

>Put up a chart and see on your ACG software

whether the paran is

>within orb of the birth place. If it is, it becomes MOST

>important.

Even paran planets not within orb of birthplace are

>important.

This is because at some stage they will come into

>conjunction with the angles. Also the need to ensure that if

>either planet is a functional malefic these must

be fully

>explored, to ensure that they do not centre on

some future town

>of domicile.

>

>Watch transiting parans they are very powerful

because of the

>dual transit to the angles.

>

>I have taken parans a step further. I look for the time that a

>planet contacts the four angles on the day of

birth. I then look

>for transits to the natal planet at that Mundane

point. My

>initial research suggests that these are more

accurate than

>zodiacal transits. Very often when there is an

appropriate

>planet aspecting a critical point for an event,

zodiacal orbs may

>be up to 5* from exact. By using what I call Mundane transits

>these

generally turn out to have an orb of less than 1* - mostly

>within 30'.

>

>I have demonstrated a number of these on the

Sidereal List.

>sidereal-

>

>Ron Gaunt

>

>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:43:36 -0500, you wrote:

>

>>Dear Ron,

>>

>>I agree completely. Pluto in particular is

fascinating, to me.

>>I also have a feeling, as it's been said in

literature, that outers are

>>more prominent nowadays because humans

'vibrate' on a higher level.

>>

>>It's good point, on parans- I do have ACG, but

wasn't experimenting on

>>that. Perhaps, I guess, because outers, Pluto

in particular, never miss

>>'to hit', and 'timing' is not the matter of a

day, since they are sooo

>>slow and persistent.

>>

>>Again as for parans, have you explored that?

With other planets, and

>>with progressions in particular-many opine that

parans /progression/

>are

>>less intensive, but longer lasting- I'd like

to hear your opinion.

>>

>>Thanks for your comment.

>>A.

>>

>>RonGaunt

[rongaunt (AT) optushome (DOT) com.au]

>>Friday, February 21, 2003 7:48 PM

>>gjlist

>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>

>>Anna and Sateesh,

>>

>>In my experience the outer planets are

extremely important -

>>particularly Pluto. One thing to watch is that with

the outers,

>>the orbs are sometimes not what they

seem. Due to latitude

an

>>apparent conjunction can be at times over 30*

away. If you have

>>Astrocartography software or some other

software such as Solar

>>Fire that shows parans to angles you can

easily see whether the 2

>>dimensional chart orb is anywhere near

correct.

>>

>>Ron Gaunt

>>

>>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:51:13 -0500, you wrote:

>>

>>>Hi Sateesh,

>>>

>>>Outers are very powerful, depending on the

position, of course. Even

>if

>>>not pronounced in birth chart /by aspect-

most powerful is

>>conjunction/,

>>>I have yet to see one who didn’t

experience their manifestations when

>>>Uranus, Pluto conjunct their luminaries.

>>>People never forget period when that

happened. Transit Pluto over

>Moon,

>>>Sun, is so intense, like

other-world-experience. Never to forget. I’ve

>>>experienced Pluto tr Moon, and Uranus tr

Sun- life is simply not same

>>>after their ‘visit’

>>>

>>>Moon conj. Pluto is a very powerful natal

configuration- Intensity,

>>>emotional power struggle, unusual, would

be the key words- however, it

>>>has to be triggered by transit for that

intensity to manifest fully,

>on

>>>the outside.

>>>

>>>Uranus on Asc. Brings touch of genius- or

it’s ‘craziness’ or both.

>Not

>>>to be ignored, though. In fact Uranus

never goes unnoticed, mental

>>speed

>>>is high, intellectual professions or at

least interests, strong

>>>individualism, intolerance for

restrictions, sometimes weirdness. But

>>>never neutral or unimportant. Uranus is

‘louder’ but ‘more innocent’

>>>than my friend Pluto, that I’m

obsessed with /and it does bring

>>>obsessions, big way...

>>>

>>>One important point- Only very close orb

should be used. Uran on Asc.

>>>should be very close to it, to be felt

like Uranian Asc, no matter

>>which

>>>sigh rises. Pluto even more so. If for

example, Uranus, or Pluto is

>>just

>>>in the first house, it will be felt, but

more within the person that

>in

>>>it’s relation with the outside

world. Conjunct. with Moon is powerful,

>>>no matter where it’s placed.

>>>

>>>Lots of good books on outers are available

now

>>>

>>>Anna

>>>

>>>Sateesh Batas

[makara (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com]

>>>Friday, February 21, 2003 1:44 PM

>>>gjlist

>>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>>

>>>Dear Cynthia,

>>>

>>>Thank you for your comments on the outers

- very enlightening.

>>>

>>>What would the combos. in my chart (see

bottom of post) indicate?

>>>

>>>1) Moon and Pluto are closely

conjunct, BUT Moon is in Hasta

>whereas

>>>Pluto is in UttaraP. Pluto in 1st closely aspects 1st Lord

Mercury in

>>>7th too. Can you give a brief interpreation?

>>>

>>>2) Uranus is on the Ascendant,

aspecting the Descendent. Any

>>>pointers as tho the manifestation? Since Uranus is NOT with any Inner

>>>planets, not sure what this means...

>>>

>>>Thanks in advance - I am trying to pick up

the Outers as they seem

>>quite

>>>valid.

>>>

>>>Sateesh.

>>>

>>>========

>>>

>>>-

>>>"cynthianovak"

<HYPERLINK

>>>"cynthianovak (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net"cynthianovak (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>

>>><HYPERLINK

"gjlist"gjlist>

>>>Friday, February 21, 2003 5:53 PM

>>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>>

>>>An outer planet alone is impersonal. An outer planet with a personal

>>>planet becomes intensely personal.

>>>

>>>Moon with Pluto gives the quality of

"going to the underworld" no

>>matter

>>>where that Moon falls.

>>>

>>>I have found that when an outer planet

even comes to the same

>>>degree...no matter where in the chart...of

a personal planet, the

>>>person's whole session will have the

flavor of that outer planet:

>>>

>>>Uranus theme is the desire to be

free. Any and everything is

>annoying.

>>>Your pulse goes up and if often feels as

if you have a finger stuck in

>>>an electrical current. You need to be grounded, but may not

know how

>>>

>>>Pluto may be to confront mortality or at

least to be pulled as if by

>an

>>>invisible current toward big life change.

>>>

>>>========

>>>

>>>*******************************************************

>>>**

* *

**

>>>*

*

* *

>>>* *

*

* *

>>>* *

*

* *

>>>*

* 7 * PL 08:59 * 5 *

*

>>>*NE 13:35 * * MO

11:07

* *

*

>>>*

8 *

AS 27:54

* 4

*

>>>*

* * UR 27:21

* *

*

>>>*

*

* *

>>>* *

*

>>>* *

*

* *

>>>*

*

* 6 *

* *

>>>**

* *

**

>>>* RA

17:27

9 * 3 KE 17:27

*

>>>**

* *

**

>>>*

*

* 12 *

* *

>>>* *

*

* *

>>>* * *

*

>>>*

*

* *

>>>*JU 15:35 * *

* *

*

>>>*MA 20:38 10*

ME 05:08

* 2 SA 23:24*

>>>*

* * * *

*

>>>*

* 11 *

SU 02:09*

*

>>>* *

*

* VE 03:42 * *

>>>* *

*

* *

>>>*

*

* *

>>>**

* *

**

>>>*******************************************************

>>>

>>>---

>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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>>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>>>:

gjlist-

>>>HYPERLINK

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>>

>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om

Tat Sat

>>:

gjlist-

>>

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Release 2/10/2003

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>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om

Tat Sat

>>:

gjlist-

>>

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>

>>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

Sat

>:

gjlist-

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2/10/2003

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February 23, 2003

Anna,

My main interest in astrology is trying to find what

techniques work the most consistently. I have done extensive

work on a number of areas, but I must admit I have never

specifically set out to do large scale investigation of

Majors. I suppose the reason for this is that they were

the main source of prediction used in my Western training,

and early on I found them unsatisfactory. Now this may

have simply been due to my relative inexperience at that

time. But the prejudice lingered, and was strengthened every

time I occasionally glanced again at particular cases using

secondaries.

Yes I have looked at converse and have seen some good

hits. However, I feel I must draw the line at using some

techniques that have proven consistent for me; because I am

only too aware that you can see anything you want to see by

just about any method after the event.

Unfortunately most of us astrologers are not aware of the

subject of 'random effect'. Example. I could say something

like:

" I have examined the life of Queen Elizabeth II. I have

looked at hundreds of events in her life and in her 77

years of living she has not died once. I therefore

pronounce her immortal."

Now this is a much stronger case than most of us astrologers

bring to bear on our practice of astrology, but it is

obviously wrong. It is simply an example of random effect

which outcome even a child would recognize. Where we, and

even many scientists have problems, is that there are many

subtle circumstances clouding our discrimination. We do not

see that we are being hoodwinked by the random effect. We tend

to look at a particular astrological case with one technique

and claim its viability when we have seen say three correct or

near correct results, ignoring the equal number of misses.

The "random effect" is of course compounded when we use a

number of different techniques; hence I tend to jettison those

that do not work consistently, whilst keeping an eye on those

that seem to work better than others. I do this because in my

ignorance there could be something I am not seeing on the

misses.

Ron Gaunt

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:51:12 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Ron,

>

>It’s well know that ‘angularity’ in any chart- natal, event…- is the

>most important. And yes, it does make sense that planet which is malefic

>for the chart, as per jyotish chart,

>when angular would be harmful- that’s valuable tool, indeed. There is a

>tendency in western astrology, as you said, to consider Venus and

>Jupiter line the most beneficial ones- but it’s been questioned by many

>/Donna Cunningham, for ex/ already.

>

>I am surprised that you found Minor Progressions work, and ‘Majors’

>don’t-

>Do you consider direct and conversed /majors/? They work, powerfully-

>Richard Houck had a very good reason to use them. Have you ever seen

>progressed planet conj. with an angle /MC, IC, ASC/DESC/ not working? Or

>Progr. Sun sign change not bringing tangible results? I haven’t.

>

>Yes MP, as a derivate of Majors, do work- effects are on the small

>scale- of course- perhaps, if you are studying events, MP, covering the

>short time span, will work better- as they are meant to work in small

>time frame, only.

>

>But it seems we are too much into western for this jyotish forum-

>important thing is that vedic adds valuable tool in interpreting

>initially western /valuable/ technique, as your experience seems to

>confirm.

>

>A.

>

>RonGaunt [rongaunt]

>Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:01 AM

>gjlist

>Re: [GJ] ASG-Angular plannets

>

>Anna,

>

>Please see comments ** .......... **

>

>Ron Gaunt

>

>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:20:03 -0500, you wrote:

>

>>Dear Ron,

>>

>>Thanks for the message. I understand you better now /I was on a

>>different side, I see now/- oh, I've been quite aware of the fact that

>>parans in astrology ARE most powerful. And critical happenings do

>>happen /J.F Kennedy/ on locations, where angular placement for the

>>crucial planet happens. It follows Gaugelin work on angularity- and

>>indeed change in location, bringing planets on the angles /J.Lewis

>>work/, does change personal 'destiny'.. I don't know if you are

>familiar

>>with "Transcendental planets'

>>Research, which powerfully demonstrates how transcendental planets- the

>>least aspected planets in the chart, act powerfully on certain

>locations

>>when it's placed angularly. But that's just further development from

>the

>>basic research on angularity.

>]

>** No I have never studied 'transcendental planets'. However,

>I

> am not surprised when any planet acts powerfully when it is

> angular. **

>>

>>That made me get AGC Software at the first place. I've been very happy

>>with results, although they are based on western charts. And it can be

>>done with sideral, too, as Rober Koch, whom I talk to about this,

>>suggests.

>>Than we can consider angular planets for certain locations, and

>>choose/avoid certain locations based on their nature in our own

>>horoscope.

>

>** Locality certainly works with Sidereal. In fact much better

> than Tropical because one gets the correct Lordships. I have

> frequently found a tragedy occurring on a marvelously benefic

> Jupiter line by Tropical method, but which was actually a

> functional malefic by the Sidereal method. **

>

>>

>>That's quite amazing area- and I do not have any doubt that it really

>>works.

>>It doesn't seem to me that it's been dealt with in jyotish.

>

>** It is true that Hindu astrologers traditionally do not take

> into account re-location. I suppose this is due to the fact

> that in early days few people travelled very far afield. **

>

>>

>>-----

>-

>>----

>>Now that I am on locational- relocational side, I would like to ask you

>>and everyone, the question about Varshapal-

>>

>>Used to using 'current' location for solar return, I was surprised to

>>see that in V. no matter if you relocated far away from the place of

>>birth, birth location is used.

>>

>>What's your experience with this? Have anybody tried to use sideral

>>solar return for actual location where the person live?

>>

>>I would appreciate more information on this.

>>

>>Thanks.

>>Anna

>

>** I use Sidereal Solar Returns and prefer to use the relocated

> location. **

>>

>>RonGaunt [rongaunt]

>>Friday, February 21, 2003 9:19 PM

>>gjlist

>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>

>>Anna,

>>

>>I think that Parans are the MOST important of ALL aspects. This

>>includes close conjunctions, because of course these are Parans

>>in their own right with the added power of transit to the angles.

>>

>>Put up a chart and see on your ACG software whether the paran is

>>within orb of the birth place. If it is, it becomes MOST

>>important. Even paran planets not within orb of birthplace are

>>important. This is because at some stage they will come into

>>conjunction with the angles. Also the need to ensure that if

>>either planet is a functional malefic these must be fully

>>explored, to ensure that they do not centre on some future town

>>of domicile.

>>

>>Watch transiting parans they are very powerful because of the

>>dual transit to the angles.

>>

>>I have taken parans a step further. I look for the time that a

>>planet contacts the four angles on the day of birth. I then look

>>for transits to the natal planet at that Mundane point. My

>>initial research suggests that these are more accurate than

>>zodiacal transits. Very often when there is an appropriate

>>planet aspecting a critical point for an event, zodiacal orbs may

>>be up to 5* from exact. By using what I call Mundane transits

>>these generally turn out to have an orb of less than 1* - mostly

>>within 30'.

>>

>>I have demonstrated a number of these on the Sidereal List.

>>sidereal-

>>

>>Ron Gaunt

>>

>>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:43:36 -0500, you wrote:

>>

>>>Dear Ron,

>>>

>>>I agree completely. Pluto in particular is fascinating, to me.

>>>I also have a feeling, as it's been said in literature, that outers

>are

>>>more prominent nowadays because humans 'vibrate' on a higher level.

>>>

>>>It's good point, on parans- I do have ACG, but wasn't experimenting on

>>>that. Perhaps, I guess, because outers, Pluto in particular, never

>miss

>>>'to hit', and 'timing' is not the matter of a day, since they are sooo

>>>slow and persistent.

>>>

>>>Again as for parans, have you explored that? With other planets, and

>>>with progressions in particular-many opine that parans /progression/

>>are

>>>less intensive, but longer lasting- I'd like to hear your opinion.

>>>

>>>Thanks for your comment.

>>>A.

>>>

>>>RonGaunt [rongaunt]

>>>Friday, February 21, 2003 7:48 PM

>>>gjlist

>>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>>

>>>Anna and Sateesh,

>>>

>>>In my experience the outer planets are extremely important -

>>>particularly Pluto. One thing to watch is that with the outers,

>>>the orbs are sometimes not what they seem. Due to latitude an

>>>apparent conjunction can be at times over 30* away. If you have

>>>Astrocartography software or some other software such as Solar

>>>Fire that shows parans to angles you can easily see whether the 2

>>>dimensional chart orb is anywhere near correct.

>>>

>>>Ron Gaunt

>>>

>>>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:51:13 -0500, you wrote:

>>>

>>>>Hi Sateesh,

>>>>

>>>>Outers are very powerful, depending on the position, of course. Even

>>if

>>>>not pronounced in birth chart /by aspect- most powerful is

>>>conjunction/,

>>>>I have yet to see one who didn’t experience their manifestations when

>>>>Uranus, Pluto conjunct their luminaries.

>>>>People never forget period when that happened. Transit Pluto over

>>Moon,

>>>>Sun, is so intense, like other-world-experience. Never to forget.

>I’ve

>>>>experienced Pluto tr Moon, and Uranus tr Sun- life is simply not same

>>>>after their ‘visit’

>>>>

>>>>Moon conj. Pluto is a very powerful natal configuration- Intensity,

>>>>emotional power struggle, unusual, would be the key words- however,

>it

>>>>has to be triggered by transit for that intensity to manifest fully,

>>on

>>>>the outside.

>>>>

>>>>Uranus on Asc. Brings touch of genius- or it’s ‘craziness’ or both.

>>Not

>>>>to be ignored, though. In fact Uranus never goes unnoticed, mental

>>>speed

>>>>is high, intellectual professions or at least interests, strong

>>>>individualism, intolerance for restrictions, sometimes weirdness. But

>>>>never neutral or unimportant. Uranus is ‘louder’ but ‘more innocent’

>>>>than my friend Pluto, that I’m obsessed with /and it does bring

>>>>obsessions, big way...

>>>>

>>>>One important point- Only very close orb should be used. Uran on Asc.

>>>>should be very close to it, to be felt like Uranian Asc, no matter

>>>which

>>>>sigh rises. Pluto even more so. If for example, Uranus, or Pluto is

>>>just

>>>>in the first house, it will be felt, but more within the person that

>>in

>>>>it’s relation with the outside world. Conjunct. with Moon is

>powerful,

>>>>no matter where it’s placed.

>>>>

>>>>Lots of good books on outers are available now

>>>>

>>>>Anna

>>>>

>>>>Sateesh Batas [makara]

>>>>Friday, February 21, 2003 1:44 PM

>>>>gjlist

>>>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>>>

>>>>Dear Cynthia,

>>>>

>>>>Thank you for your comments on the outers - very enlightening.

>>>>

>>>>What would the combos. in my chart (see bottom of post) indicate?

>>>>

>>>>1) Moon and Pluto are closely conjunct, BUT Moon is in Hasta

>>whereas

>>>>Pluto is in UttaraP. Pluto in 1st closely aspects 1st Lord Mercury

>in

>>>>7th too. Can you give a brief interpreation?

>>>>

>>>>2) Uranus is on the Ascendant, aspecting the Descendent. Any

>>>>pointers as tho the manifestation? Since Uranus is NOT with any

>Inner

>>>>planets, not sure what this means...

>>>>

>>>>Thanks in advance - I am trying to pick up the Outers as they seem

>>>quite

>>>>valid.

>>>>

>>>>Sateesh.

>>>>

>>>>========

>>>>

>>>>-

>>>>"cynthianovak" <HYPERLINK

>>>>"cynthianovak"cynthianovak

>>>><HYPERLINK "gjlist"gjlist>

>>>>Friday, February 21, 2003 5:53 PM

>>>>Re: [GJ] Definition of stellium

>>>>

>>>>An outer planet alone is impersonal. An outer planet with a personal

>>>>planet becomes intensely personal.

>>>>

>>>>Moon with Pluto gives the quality of "going to the underworld" no

>>>matter

>>>>where that Moon falls.

>>>>

>>>>I have found that when an outer planet even comes to the same

>>>>degree...no matter where in the chart...of a personal planet, the

>>>>person's whole session will have the flavor of that outer planet:

>>>>

>>>>Uranus theme is the desire to be free. Any and everything is

>>annoying.

>>>>Your pulse goes up and if often feels as if you have a finger stuck

>in

>>>>an electrical current. You need to be grounded, but may not know how

>>>>

>>>>Pluto may be to confront mortality or at least to be pulled as if by

>>an

>>>>invisible current toward big life change.

>>>>

>>>>========

>>>>

>>>>*******************************************************

>>>>** * * **

>>>>* * * * * *

>>>>* * 7 * PL 08:59 * 5 * *

>>>>*NE 13:35 * * MO 11:07 * * *

>>>>* 8 * AS 27:54 * 4 *

>>>>* * * UR 27:21 * * *

>>>>* * * * * *

>>>>* * * 6 * * *

>>>>** * * **

>>>>* RA 17:27 9 * 3 KE 17:27 *

>>>>** * * **

>>>>* * * 12 * * *

>>>>* * * * * *

>>>>*JU 15:35 * * * * *

>>>>*MA 20:38 10* ME 05:08 * 2 SA 23:24*

>>>>* * * * * *

>>>>* * 11 * SU 02:09* *

>>>>* * * * VE 03:42 * *

>>>>* * * * * *

>>>>** * * **

>>>>*******************************************************

>>>>

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>>>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>>>>: gjlist-

>>>>HYPERLINK "http://www.goravani.com"http://www.goravani.com

>>>>

>>>>HYPERLINK

>>>>""

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>>

>>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

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>: gjlist-

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February 23, 2003

Dear Ron,

More or less we all share your experience and concerns. We all expect

more, than 'it's revealed to us'- you've seen accuracy of prediction

with various techniques, on the List- tests.. Not impressive..But can

certainly improve.

For quick rewsult- MP work- but again, it's good if one has broader

picture in mind/my experience/ with them too

'Big Progressions' act 'on their own will'/my experience/- when THEY

'want' to form an aspect- it always works- you just have to acknowledge

what they say. And accept them as they are, for what they CAN offer-

they cannot tell you that this week you'll socialize more- Minors can.

And of course, failed predictions- one has to be modest and not get

overly obsessed with making earth-shaking predictions, and make planets

work in accordance with our will- they won't: WE are important

predictive tool- and not always reliable-

It would be easier for you, for ex. to 'accurately' interpret my chart

than your own- you've certainly noticed that-

one method, I am sure about that is not appropriate for everything- We

all study jyotish here- because we see value in it. And the more we

know, the better 'TOOL' we become.

They /approaches/ all speak about the same Universe, in a different way.

That's the beauty of our journey

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Good Luck,

Anna

RonGaunt [rongaunt]

Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:48 PM

gjlist

Cc: sidereal

Re: [GJ] ASG-Angular planets

Anna,

My main interest in astrology is trying to find what

techniques work the most consistently. I have done extensive

work on a number of areas, but I must admit I have never

specifically set out to do large scale investigation of

Majors. I suppose the reason for this is that they were

the main source of prediction used in my Western training,

and early on I found them unsatisfactory. Now this may

have simply been due to my relative inexperience at that

time. But the prejudice lingered, and was strengthened every

time I occasionally glanced again at particular cases using

secondaries.

Yes I have looked at converse and have seen some good

hits. However, I feel I must draw the line at using some

techniques that have proven consistent for me; because I am

only too aware that you can see anything you want to see by

just about any method after the event.

Unfortunately most of us astrologers are not aware of the

subject of 'random effect'. Example. I could say something

like:

" I have examined the life of Queen Elizabeth II. I have

looked at hundreds of events in her life and in her 77

years of living she has not died once. I therefore

pronounce her immortal."

Now this is a much stronger case than most of us astrologers

bring to bear on our practice of astrology, but it is

obviously wrong. It is simply an example of random effect

which outcome even a child would recognize. Where we, and

even many scientists have problems, is that there are many

subtle circumstances clouding our discrimination. We do not

see that we are being hoodwinked by the random effect. We tend

to look at a particular astrological case with one technique

and claim its viability when we have seen say three correct or

near correct results, ignoring the equal number of misses.

The "random effect" is of course compounded when we use a

number of different techniques; hence I tend to jettison those

that do not work consistently, whilst keeping an eye on those

that seem to work better than others. I do this because in my

ignorance there could be something I am not seeing on the

misses.

Ron Gaunt

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:51:12 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Ron,

>

>It’s well know that ‘angularity’ in any chart- natal, event…- is the

>most important. And yes, it does make sense that planet which is

malefic

>for the chart, as per jyotish chart,

>when angular would be harmful- that’s valuable tool, indeed. There is a

>tendency in western astrology, as you said, to consider Venus and

>Jupiter line the most beneficial ones- but it’s been questioned by many

>/Donna Cunningham, for ex/ already.

>

>I am surprised that you found Minor Progressions work, and ‘Majors’

>don’t-

>Do you consider direct and conversed /majors/? They work, powerfully-

>Richard Houck had a very good reason to use them. Have you ever seen

>progressed planet conj. with an angle /MC, IC, ASC/DESC/ not working?

Or

>Progr. Sun sign change not bringing tangible results? I haven’t.

>

>Yes MP, as a derivate of Majors, do work- effects are on the small

>scale- of course- perhaps, if you are studying events, MP, covering the

>short time span, will work better- as they are meant to work in small

>time frame, only.

>

>But it seems we are too much into western for this jyotish forum-

>important thing is that vedic adds valuable tool in interpreting

>initially western /valuable/ technique, as your experience seems to

>confirm.

>

>A.

>

>RonGaunt [rongaunt]

>Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:01 AM

>gjlist

>Re: [GJ] ASG-Angular plannets

>

>Anna,

>

>Please see comments ** .......... **

>

>Ron Gaunt

>

>On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:20:03 -0500, you wrote:

>

>>Dear Ron,

>>

>>Thanks for the message. I understand you better now /I was on a

>>different side, I see now/- oh, I've been quite aware of the fact that

>>parans in astrology ARE most powerful. And critical happenings do

>>happen /J.F Kennedy/ on locations, where angular placement for the

>>crucial planet happens. It follows Gaugelin work on angularity- and

>>indeed change in location, bringing planets on the angles /J.Lewis

>>work/, does change personal 'destiny'.. I don't know if you are

>familiar

>>with "Transcendental planets'

>>Research, which powerfully demonstrates how transcendental planets-

the

>>least aspected planets in the chart, act powerfully on certain

>locations

>>when it's placed angularly. But that's just further development from

>the

>>basic research on angularity.

>]

>** No I have never studied 'transcendental planets'. However,

>I

> am not surprised when any planet acts powerfully when it is

> angular. **

>>

>>That made me get AGC Software at the first place. I've been very happy

>>with results, although they are based on western charts. And it can be

>>done with sideral, too, as Rober Koch, whom I talk to about this,

>>suggests.

>>Than we can consider angular planets for certain locations, and

>>choose/avoid certain locations based on their nature in our own

>>horoscope.

>

>** Locality certainly works with Sidereal. In fact much better

> than Tropical because one gets the correct Lordships. I have

> frequently found a tragedy occurring on a marvelously benefic

> Jupiter line by Tropical method, but which was actually a

> functional malefic by the Sidereal method. **

>

>>

>>That's quite amazing area- and I do not have any doubt that it really

>>works.

>>It doesn't seem to me that it's been dealt with in jyotish.

>

>** It is true that Hindu astrologers traditionally do not take

> into account re-location. I suppose this is due to the fact

> that in early days few people travelled very far afield. **

>

>>

>>----

-

>-

>>----

>>Now that I am on locational- relocational side, I would like to ask

you