Astrology, destiny, determinism - logical error ???

[Guest guest]

If we assume there is no such thing as free will (that is, what we

call free will is just an illusion)..........

 

Consider a child is born with a certain birth chart

 

1. "Paap" or sins lead to bad results. In particular, you will be

born with a "bad chart" in your next life.

 

2. A "bad chart" is afflicted with "Paap-Grahas", or malefics.

 

3. "Paap-Grahas" force you to commit sin ("Paap").

 

As you can all see, anybody who has strong malefic presence in

his/her chart is endlessly stuck in this infinite loop and will never

get out.

 

 

gjlist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

>

> In my opinion, astrology as we know it, as we practice it, is

certainly

> fallible, so much so, that we can assuredly say, that no human

knows the

> future for sure. That means, only the unseen know the future. So we

don't.

> So we can't know the future, so there really is no such thing as

astrology

> proving itself enough, at this time, for the totally obstinate to

see that

> there is determinism.

>

> You have to "give it" to astrology, to see determinism. You have to

see more

> than it is showing, through astrologers, at this time. That's true.

>

> So it leaves room for people to have varying views on how things

work as

> regards determinism and free willy, and the balance of the two.

>

> I've considered it extensively, and conclude that there probably is

full

> pre-determinism, existing actually, and that the explanation is

that we are

> all in God. I could go into more detail. But that's the bottom

line. It's

> one entity doing it's thing, and we are parts, and we have our own

> perception ability, which gets misled, and sees independence, and

suffers

> those visions.

>

> But the fact is, we do think like that, independent, and we do

suffer it,

> and we consider "How fully are we controlled, and how much are we

free".

> Kindof cute, how we behave.

>

> It's useless to think that determinism is full, though it may be.

It's a

> useless thought, in this life, as this life, is so full of what

seems like

> independent action and even "getting away with" things. It seems

we're

> independent, alone, and functioning as autonomous little units

running

> around our cities chasing our fancies.

>

> To me, astrology shows this is wholly untrue, that we are indeed

> combinations of archetypes which can be co-read in the planets, at

the time

> of major events, as there is alignment in all that is. It's co-

reading...

> it's not so much causal, but co-existing, we are reading one thing,

to know

> another. The planets too, that we see, those balls, they are also

under the

> laws of gravity and physics, and hence they stay in orbit. The

planets we

> look at, are physical, like our bodies, and hence come and go

within a

> greater set of parameters which cause them and us combined.

>

> The archetypes ascribed to things by scripture, work. That's what's

imortant

> moreso. The findings of ancient man, and modern man, and Gods and

Saints

> portrayed in the books, all say the same thing, about, Mars,

Saturn, Taurus,

> the zodiac, physics, etc. The facts are the facts, and co reading

one set of

> parameters usually works to clue us into others which coexist

> simultaneously, such as at a birth.

>

> Astrology does not cause anything actually, neither do the planet

balls,

> unless you can see that it is planetary gravity that drives small

life on

> earth, like us, as I can, but that¹s another thing. It is the

archetypes

> that cause things. The archetypes come from the source of all that

is, they

> are riddled throughout everything, fully, and only, they are all

that exist,

> and they are playing themselves out. They are nine planets and 12

signs

> readable, or 108 multiplied, hence the sacredness of this number in

> Matriarchal ancient cultures such as Celtic and Vedic.

>

> So astrology is for reading your part in the play. It is pretty

insensitive

> and faceless as it does this. In other words, it's accurate.

There's no real

> compassion shown. It reads blindly and it can be heavy. It can be

relatively

> happy too.

>

> Let me explain that last statement. Relatively happy means, that

relative to

> others, you will be happier.

>

> For example, if someone has a ³great chart², then what does that

mean?

>

> It means things like they will be healthy, rich, happy,

comfortable, famous,

> long lived, have a great career, and so on. All things in RELATION

to the

> norm on this world. The planets were at ³special² places, and from

the lagna

> at that moment they were ³nicely tilted² which gives the houses,

and whammo,

> we have someone who¹s life is also ³nicely adorned². Period.

>

> What does that mean? It means that in relative perspective from

the norm of

> attainment of the objects of the senses, the persons life will be

³better²,

> with ³more².

>

> This shows insecurity. We humans feel vulnerable and insecure, in

the

> elements, when we¹re out of money, or the ability to trade for

goods, for

> the senses to get satisfaction, pleasure, comfort, life force. We

are

> gatherers of things, and needs, and so, a good chart shows more

incoming

> stuff, more of the stuff of life, than others, relatively, and

that¹s all.

>

> It doesn¹t make someone free from this place, nor does it make them

free

> from facing life. They still have to face all of life just like

everybody

> else.

>

> When we go into what life is for, how to live it, how to be happy,

then we

> start to go to the place which nobody ever, at all, is ever

protected from.

> We start to talk about death, life, meaning, service, purpose,

dharma,

> habits, activities, emotions, mind... and everybody has to deal

with these

> things.

>

> A good chart means they may deal, and be successful at those

things, and

> learn alot about them, and master themselves. This may seem great.

But it¹s

> probably going to also give the intense need to make those strides,

which

> may not feel good.

>

> To be Bill Gates, is a high achievement financially, but I bet you

he has

> some gripping strong gripes about the negative sides of his life. I

bet you

> they really hurt bad, like everybody else¹s.

>

> Astrology does work. It shows us alot about our life. It¹s hard to

face,

> when we¹re attached to controlling life to a certain direction,

end, or set

> of conditions. It may say ³nope², and that¹s all. I¹ve been amazed

basically

> at how good it does work.

>

> Feeling good though, is inside us, in an inner struggle to not

struggle, to

> not endevour, to rather instead let go and hang onto what is, what

is

> happening for real, not dreams. This is my trip anyway. That¹s my

particular

> set of path dimensions. It¹s different if you don¹t have moon in 11

and

> aren¹t with a shad bala mars of 1.8 and Venus in lagna in mars

ruled sign.

> Fire cases need anti pitta tonics, whereas other doshas need other

doses.

>

> 123, 123, 123, 123... repeat

>

> there is alot of truth in that last line

>

> drg