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Astrology, destiny, determinism

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In my opinion, astrology as we know it, as we practice it, is certainly

fallible, so much so, that we can assuredly say, that no human knows the

future for sure. That means, only the unseen know the future. So we don't.

So we can't know the future, so there really is no such thing as astrology

proving itself enough, at this time, for the totally obstinate to see that

there is determinism.

 

You have to "give it" to astrology, to see determinism. You have to see more

than it is showing, through astrologers, at this time. That's true.

 

So it leaves room for people to have varying views on how things work as

regards determinism and free willy, and the balance of the two.

 

I've considered it extensively, and conclude that there probably is full

pre-determinism, existing actually, and that the explanation is that we are

all in God. I could go into more detail. But that's the bottom line. It's

one entity doing it's thing, and we are parts, and we have our own

perception ability, which gets misled, and sees independence, and suffers

those visions.

 

But the fact is, we do think like that, independent, and we do suffer it,

and we consider "How fully are we controlled, and how much are we free".

Kindof cute, how we behave.

 

It's useless to think that determinism is full, though it may be. It's a

useless thought, in this life, as this life, is so full of what seems like

independent action and even "getting away with" things. It seems we're

independent, alone, and functioning as autonomous little units running

around our cities chasing our fancies.

 

To me, astrology shows this is wholly untrue, that we are indeed

combinations of archetypes which can be co-read in the planets, at the time

of major events, as there is alignment in all that is. It's co-reading...

it's not so much causal, but co-existing, we are reading one thing, to know

another. The planets too, that we see, those balls, they are also under the

laws of gravity and physics, and hence they stay in orbit. The planets we

look at, are physical, like our bodies, and hence come and go within a

greater set of parameters which cause them and us combined.

 

The archetypes ascribed to things by scripture, work. That's what's imortant

moreso. The findings of ancient man, and modern man, and Gods and Saints

portrayed in the books, all say the same thing, about, Mars, Saturn, Taurus,

the zodiac, physics, etc. The facts are the facts, and co reading one set of

parameters usually works to clue us into others which coexist

simultaneously, such as at a birth.

 

Astrology does not cause anything actually, neither do the planet balls,

unless you can see that it is planetary gravity that drives small life on

earth, like us, as I can, but that¹s another thing. It is the archetypes

that cause things. The archetypes come from the source of all that is, they

are riddled throughout everything, fully, and only, they are all that exist,

and they are playing themselves out. They are nine planets and 12 signs

readable, or 108 multiplied, hence the sacredness of this number in

Matriarchal ancient cultures such as Celtic and Vedic.

 

So astrology is for reading your part in the play. It is pretty insensitive

and faceless as it does this. In other words, it's accurate. There's no real

compassion shown. It reads blindly and it can be heavy. It can be relatively

happy too.

 

Let me explain that last statement. Relatively happy means, that relative to

others, you will be happier.

 

For example, if someone has a ³great chart², then what does that mean?

 

It means things like they will be healthy, rich, happy, comfortable, famous,

long lived, have a great career, and so on. All things in RELATION to the

norm on this world. The planets were at ³special² places, and from the lagna

at that moment they were ³nicely tilted² which gives the houses, and whammo,

we have someone who¹s life is also ³nicely adorned². Period.

 

What does that mean? It means that in relative perspective from the norm of

attainment of the objects of the senses, the persons life will be ³better²,

with ³more².

 

This shows insecurity. We humans feel vulnerable and insecure, in the

elements, when we¹re out of money, or the ability to trade for goods, for

the senses to get satisfaction, pleasure, comfort, life force. We are

gatherers of things, and needs, and so, a good chart shows more incoming

stuff, more of the stuff of life, than others, relatively, and that¹s all.

 

It doesn¹t make someone free from this place, nor does it make them free

from facing life. They still have to face all of life just like everybody

else.

 

When we go into what life is for, how to live it, how to be happy, then we

start to go to the place which nobody ever, at all, is ever protected from.

We start to talk about death, life, meaning, service, purpose, dharma,

habits, activities, emotions, mind... and everybody has to deal with these

things.

 

A good chart means they may deal, and be successful at those things, and

learn alot about them, and master themselves. This may seem great. But it¹s

probably going to also give the intense need to make those strides, which

may not feel good.

 

To be Bill Gates, is a high achievement financially, but I bet you he has

some gripping strong gripes about the negative sides of his life. I bet you

they really hurt bad, like everybody else¹s.

 

Astrology does work. It shows us alot about our life. It¹s hard to face,

when we¹re attached to controlling life to a certain direction, end, or set

of conditions. It may say ³nope², and that¹s all. I¹ve been amazed basically

at how good it does work.

 

Feeling good though, is inside us, in an inner struggle to not struggle, to

not endevour, to rather instead let go and hang onto what is, what is

happening for real, not dreams. This is my trip anyway. That¹s my particular

set of path dimensions. It¹s different if you don¹t have moon in 11 and

aren¹t with a shad bala mars of 1.8 and Venus in lagna in mars ruled sign.

Fire cases need anti pitta tonics, whereas other doshas need other doses.

 

123, 123, 123, 123... repeat

 

there is alot of truth in that last line

 

drg

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BRAVO!

 

 

 

 

 

>Das Goravani <>

>gjlist

><gjlist>

>[GJ] Astrology, destiny, determinism

>Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:12:52 -0800

>

>

>In my opinion, astrology as we know it, as we practice it, is certainly

>fallible, so much so, that we can assuredly say, that no human knows the

>future for sure. That means, only the unseen know the future. So we don't.

>So we can't know the future, so there really is no such thing as astrology

>proving itself enough, at this time, for the totally obstinate to see that

>there is determinism.

>

>You have to "give it" to astrology, to see determinism. You have to see

>more

>than it is showing, through astrologers, at this time. That's true.

>

>So it leaves room for people to have varying views on how things work as

>regards determinism and free willy, and the balance of the two.

>

>I've considered it extensively, and conclude that there probably is full

>pre-determinism, existing actually, and that the explanation is that we are

>all in God. I could go into more detail. But that's the bottom line. It's

>one entity doing it's thing, and we are parts, and we have our own

>perception ability, which gets misled, and sees independence, and suffers

>those visions.

>

>But the fact is, we do think like that, independent, and we do suffer it,

>and we consider "How fully are we controlled, and how much are we free".

>Kindof cute, how we behave.

>

>It's useless to think that determinism is full, though it may be. It's a

>useless thought, in this life, as this life, is so full of what seems like

>independent action and even "getting away with" things. It seems we're

>independent, alone, and functioning as autonomous little units running

>around our cities chasing our fancies.

>

>To me, astrology shows this is wholly untrue, that we are indeed

>combinations of archetypes which can be co-read in the planets, at the time

>of major events, as there is alignment in all that is. It's co-reading...

>it's not so much causal, but co-existing, we are reading one thing, to know

>another. The planets too, that we see, those balls, they are also under the

>laws of gravity and physics, and hence they stay in orbit. The planets we

>look at, are physical, like our bodies, and hence come and go within a

>greater set of parameters which cause them and us combined.

>

>The archetypes ascribed to things by scripture, work. That's what's

>imortant

>moreso. The findings of ancient man, and modern man, and Gods and Saints

>portrayed in the books, all say the same thing, about, Mars, Saturn,

>Taurus,

>the zodiac, physics, etc. The facts are the facts, and co reading one set

>of

>parameters usually works to clue us into others which coexist

>simultaneously, such as at a birth.

>

>Astrology does not cause anything actually, neither do the planet balls,

>unless you can see that it is planetary gravity that drives small life on

>earth, like us, as I can, but that¹s another thing. It is the archetypes

>that cause things. The archetypes come from the source of all that is, they

>are riddled throughout everything, fully, and only, they are all that

>exist,

>and they are playing themselves out. They are nine planets and 12 signs

>readable, or 108 multiplied, hence the sacredness of this number in

>Matriarchal ancient cultures such as Celtic and Vedic.

>

>So astrology is for reading your part in the play. It is pretty insensitive

>and faceless as it does this. In other words, it's accurate. There's no

>real

>compassion shown. It reads blindly and it can be heavy. It can be

>relatively

>happy too.

>

>Let me explain that last statement. Relatively happy means, that relative

>to

>others, you will be happier.

>

>For example, if someone has a ³great chart², then what does that mean?

>

>It means things like they will be healthy, rich, happy, comfortable,

>famous,

>long lived, have a great career, and so on. All things in RELATION to the

>norm on this world. The planets were at ³special² places, and from the

>lagna

>at that moment they were ³nicely tilted² which gives the houses, and

>whammo,

>we have someone who¹s life is also ³nicely adorned². Period.

>

>What does that mean? It means that in relative perspective from the norm

>of

>attainment of the objects of the senses, the persons life will be ³better²,

>with ³more².

>

>This shows insecurity. We humans feel vulnerable and insecure, in the

>elements, when we¹re out of money, or the ability to trade for goods, for

>the senses to get satisfaction, pleasure, comfort, life force. We are

>gatherers of things, and needs, and so, a good chart shows more incoming

>stuff, more of the stuff of life, than others, relatively, and that¹s all.

>

>It doesn¹t make someone free from this place, nor does it make them free

>from facing life. They still have to face all of life just like everybody

>else.

>

>When we go into what life is for, how to live it, how to be happy, then we

>start to go to the place which nobody ever, at all, is ever protected from.

>We start to talk about death, life, meaning, service, purpose, dharma,

>habits, activities, emotions, mind... and everybody has to deal with these

>things.

>

>A good chart means they may deal, and be successful at those things, and

>learn alot about them, and master themselves. This may seem great. But it¹s

>probably going to also give the intense need to make those strides, which

>may not feel good.

>

>To be Bill Gates, is a high achievement financially, but I bet you he has

>some gripping strong gripes about the negative sides of his life. I bet you

>they really hurt bad, like everybody else¹s.

>

>Astrology does work. It shows us alot about our life. It¹s hard to face,

>when we¹re attached to controlling life to a certain direction, end, or set

>of conditions. It may say ³nope², and that¹s all. I¹ve been amazed

>basically

>at how good it does work.

>

>Feeling good though, is inside us, in an inner struggle to not struggle, to

>not endevour, to rather instead let go and hang onto what is, what is

>happening for real, not dreams. This is my trip anyway. That¹s my

>particular

>set of path dimensions. It¹s different if you don¹t have moon in 11 and

>aren¹t with a shad bala mars of 1.8 and Venus in lagna in mars ruled sign.

>Fire cases need anti pitta tonics, whereas other doshas need other doses.

>

>123, 123, 123, 123... repeat

>

>there is alot of truth in that last line

>

>drg

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

BR

 

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Just another opinion… (till it becomes experienced reality)

 

The Horoscope of each and every of us is just a map of the creation

that surrounds us. In that it is a microcosm of the Creation itself.

Creation (or Nature, Prakrti or Maya) operates according to laws

(predetermined?) or rules that give it consistency. Can anyone change

it? Only the Creator perhaps.

 

The spark of the Creator in us (also called Jivatma) cannot accept

the fact that our "life" is predetermined, for its "nature" is beyond

rules or laws. It is pure Will (free or conditioned). This is the

reason the question of determinism and freewill comes up again and

again in all astrological lists.

 

Illusion binds the Jivatma such that it cannot differentiate between

the creation and the Creator. This illusion is the one that we all

have to somehow "overcome". This has been the goal of all the great

sages and saints who have preceded us in this earth.

 

We, who are bound by illusion, develop expectations based on our

vasanas (proclivities) and hence face disappointments. For all such

souls (Arjunas) Krishna has been singing the Gita eternally. Why? We

are His kith and kin, as we too carry His spark within us.

 

Can the Horoscope point this out to us? Yes it most probably can.

But, then by the time we develop the ability to read this in a chart,

it most probably is redundant and unnecessary.

 

Does it mean there is no cause and effect? No, it certainly exists in

nature. But, whether we want our experiences to be bound by them, is

left to us, our inner selves.

 

As far as becoming co-creators, the day we stop identifying ourselves

with this limited body, may be we can legitimately claim our birth

right as children of God or exercise it as God.

 

Love,

Arun

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