Research and tradition-to Andy Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy, long time, no hear...

 

Very interesting comments.

 

I think there is a good bit that I can go along with

here; the mention of house cusps, or starting and

ending points being significant for a planet, is

important. I have found, and I got this from the

Systems' Approach school of thought, that any planet

on or near (within a few degrees) of the Maximum

Effective Point (the degree of the Asc) in any house,

will tend to be strong, for good or bad.

 

While I am not conversant to any great degree with the

KP system, I do think that there is plenty of room in

Vedic Astrology for newer, more modern techniques. I,

for one, am a huge advocate of using such things that,

while not necessarily spelled out in the classics, are

valuable nonetheless.

 

For example, for the past 2 or 3 years, I have

calculated Dasas from the Asc position ONLY, not from

the Moon, as per the classics. This has gotten me into

a good bit of trouble from the more hardened Vedics,

but I maintain my position - Dasa from the Asc degree

has proven to be most accurate in my work. I would

stake my life on it.

 

This is what I think VA sorely needs, and is woefully

missing from the discussion on a daily basis - the

NEED for VA to be modernized, for it to "get with the

program". You may have seen my posts in as many days

towards this topic, specifically, about taking modern

approaches towards solving problems and so on.

 

I am hopeful that this sort of discussion happens

soon, lest we run the risk of keeping Vedic Astrology

in the dungeon of ancient history!

 

I'm hopeful things will turn around.

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

--- Andrew Lynn <skinbags wrote:

> Dear Manoj

>

> The following was posted to Wendy and Nicholas in

> regards to their

> statements that the KP system is not a part of Vedic

> astrology. I too

> thought some of their comments were very closed

> minded and the following

> while not meant to upset anybody, was worded

> strongly as I have a very big

> dislike of any form a "Jyotish fundamentalism". I

> was just going to let

> their comments pass but my Jyotish mentor K.N

> Navaratnam urged me to post a

> very strong response in defence of Krishnamurti and

> his system.

>

> The following will be my last comments on all this.

> Firstly I would not

> consider any chart to be correct based on Rasi chart

> alone. Also in this

> chart, so many planets either sit on a house cusp or

> very close to one, even

> a few minutes of time rectification could alter it

> very drastically. I give

> no reliability to the mothers time to be exact. This

> is the KP systems

> biggest drawback but also its greatest strength. The

> time must be totally

> accurate for it to work clearly. I could not give

> two hoots for general

> broad definitions of a chart, I want to see events

> seen or foretold very

> clearly as given by the chart.

>

> As a general principal you can say things like

> transit Saturn is in the 8th

> house from Moon, so it may be a bad period for you

> mentally for the next 2

> and a half years. Mars Bhukti will be a difficult

> one for 3 months. This is

> just so general!! Most people want to know what is

> going to happen in the

> future and EXACTLY when it will unfold. My goal in

> astrology is to try to

> get events to the EXACT day as shown by either rasi,

> KP or progressions.

>

> To know a person and their chart and then go back

> over a chart to justify

> technique is one way to learn, but it is actually a

> flawed science as the

> only real true test of skill and technique in

> astrology is a blind chart and

> predictions of events or potential events that might

> unfold. Krishnamurti

> would often make a prediction giving the EXACT day a

> marriage or death might

> take place and in a lot of cases he was totally

> correct. He was not always

> right but he was better than most astrologers.

>

> I mentioned to Pundit today that you say KP is not

> Vedic astrology and he

> was quite amused. He asked me to pose this question

> to you. "In KP you are

> using the 12 signs of the zodiac, you are using the

> 27 lunar nakshatras, you

> are calculating 12 bhavas with correct astronomical

> calculations. If this is

> not practicing Vedic astrology what is???"

>

> In all my posts I have been careful to mention that

> I consider KP just a

> form of putting a chart under a microscope for

> clarification. In the blind

> chart tests on my group, we all have suffered with

> the dilemma of looking at

> the dasha running at an event and trying to figure

> out exactly how to

> clarify the many permutations of what the said

> planets and houses can

> actually bring. This lead me to see how powerful the

> KP system is at

> actually getting down to the nitty gritty of what a

> planet or house will

> indicate.

>

> Firstly, I have shown what I thought was very clear

> in my chart. Venus,

> while exalted in the 2nd house in rashi, is actually

> a 12th house

> significator and activates my Mars/Mercury

> conjunction that is in the 12th

> Bhava via KP. My Venus has brought car accidents and

> thefts, violence,

> hospitalisation and jail. All Mars related events.

> Now you said Venus is in

> the 8th house from Moon in the nakshatra of Mercury

> the 8th lord and Mercury

> is afflicted by Mars in lagna. This has brought bad

> results for me

> physically. This is quite correct generally but the

> KP system clarifies this

> to explain the events are related to the

> significations of the 12th house.

>

> Under Mars/Rahu/Venus I was in jail but also my feet

> were so badly inflamed

> by plantar fasciaitis I could barely walk. Now this

> is all functionally 12th

> house stuff and inflammation is ruled by Mars. In

> Rasi I have Saturn and

> Ketu in the 12th house so as a GENERAL principal it

> would indicate feet

> trouble. Under KP it indicates it will be severe in

> Rahu/ Venus Bhuktis or

> antars as they are powerful indicators of the 12th

> house.

>

> Pundit has Saturn in the lagna this shows his

> general bad health with

> diabetes, heart problems and general Vata diseases

> like constipation and dry

> skin. Under KP his Saturn is in the 12th house and

> by far his biggest

> problems are with his feet, he is totally lame and

> can only shuffle. His

> feet are so dry and have sores all over them. (this

> is a side effect of

> diabetes of course).

>

> Sign wise his Saturn is in the sign of Scorpio which

> relates to the genitals

> and he has been impotent since 1970. So both are

> correct one generally and

> one specifically. Another very good example from

> Pundits chart is the fact

> he was born in Scorpio and Mars is in the 7th house

> in Taurus. As a general

> principal this may indicate foreign relocation but

> otherwise I see little

> Taurus in him except physically as shown by the sign

> as he is short and slow

> moving.

>

> Now the KP system gives some very clear and precise

> evaluations of Pundits

> chart. In his rashi chart Mercury is stationary in

> the 5th house with Uranus

> showing his powerful intellect, memory and skill as

> an astrologer.

> Functionally, Mercury rules the 4th house cusp.

> Mercury is in the nakshatra

> of Saturn who is a 12th house occupant. This can

> show moving to a foreign

> country. Under KP Saturn is 4th lord in the 12th

> house so immigration in old

> age is shown as Saturn represents old age.

>

> Now he has Ketu in the lagna in its own nakshatra,

> Ketu is a powerful

> significator of himself. Saturn is a powerful

> significator of the 12th house

> of foreign countries by being in its own nakshatra

> in the 12th house. When

> he ran Ketu/Sat/Sat period he moved to Australia in

> 1985. Now go back to

> rashi and ask me how you can say Ketu/Sat/Sat will

> bring emigration. Can't.

>

> Another example is the chart of Richard Houck. I

> just bought a book called

> "Eastern Systems for Western Astrologers" and in it

> he says how he thought

> he would live to 84 as his chart had Saturn in the

> 8th house and this gave

> long life. He had also consulted a Nadi reader he

> said he would live to 84.

> (Any comment on this would be superfluous).

>

> Now, without going into great detail, when I found

> out he had cancer I said

> he would die under Jupiter/Moon/Saturn. Saturn in

> his chart is in the 8th

> house in rashi in Cancer. This is a general

> indication of chronic disease in

> the stomach and bowel. Saturn was EXACTLY on a death

> inflicting Mrityu Bhaga

> degree at birth. Now under KP Saturn is in the

> maraka 7th house as lord of

> other maraka, the 2nd. Under KP Saturn was a deadly

> killer for him. It was

> no coincidence Saturn was 2 minutes from an EXACT

> Mrityu Bhaga degree when

> he died.

>

> He died under Jupiter/Moon/Saturn. Lagna lord

> Jupiter is 10th house karaka

> in Scorpio showing high occult knowledge and status

> in life, but its sub is

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western and Vedic Astrologer

mumin_bey

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[Guest guest]

OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Dear Mu,

 

At 05:15 PM 11/26/02 -0800, you wrote:

 

>For example, for the past 2 or 3 years, I have

>calculated Dasas from the Asc position ONLY, not from

>the Moon, as per the classics. This has gotten me into

>a good bit of trouble from the more hardened Vedics,

>but I maintain my position - Dasa from the Asc degree

>has proven to be most accurate in my work. I would

>stake my life on it.

 

Dear friend, you are not doing anything new here, by using the lagna

naksatra as the starting position for Vimsottari dasa. In fact, classical

Vedic literatures, particularly Jataka Parijata, give five different

starting naksatras, one of which is the lagna naksatra. Preference of use

is fine, absolutely, if you are getting good results.

 

Expanding on this, however, lets just say that there are various matters

that need to be born in mind when using a system of calculation for

Vimsottari dasa. Some of these are as follows:

 

1. Vimsottari dasas beginning with the lunar naksatra, show the

progression of feelings and perceptions (Moon) of the environment and

unfolding karmas, to various points in a native's life. Since as

conditioned souls Kali-yuga, we are mostly concerned with our subjective

realities, the lunar generated Vimsottari dasa works well most of the time.

 

2. The lagna represents "Dhi shakti", or intelligence. This is because

the Deity Brahma sits at the ascendant cusp astrologically. By way of

joining with the material mode of passion (Raja-guna), and his shakti of

creation (sristi-shakti), who is personified by the Goddess Saraswati,

Brahma carries out the creation of the universes. Brahma (the lagna) thus

represents intelligence, while Saraswati, his wife, is the goddess of

learning. If anybody knows anything about anything, it results from the

blessings of the goddess. Correspondingly, the Vim. dasa calculated from

the lagna naksatra, shows evolving levels of discernment and creative

intelligence on the part of the native as regard his experience of

life. Experience of life as perceived subjectively through the mind and

emotions, might thus be different than those experienced by way of

objectivity and inspection.

 

If we take these themes a bit higher, the energy necessary to bring

physical realities into manifestation is a matter of one level of

intelligence. Higher levels of intelligence, combine both the intuitive,

as well as the rational, and these are what are represented by goddess

Saraswati. So you see, with this in mind, the lunar generated as well as

lagna generated Vimsottari dasas are really one and the same, although

representing differing cognitive functions as they concern the experience

of the native. Either way, the events or experiences of life are really a

matter of perception in the world of form (Maya), as those who are advanced

in consciousness do not even experience pain or pleasure, what then to

speak of desire to improve themselves materially.

 

Bottom line: Use what works, because both approaches were outlined by the

sage Vaidyanatha Diksita, who put the Jataka Parijata together centuries ago.

 

One more thing: There are many details regarding Vimsottari dasa that are

not emphasized by authors of most books. It is good to experiment, as you

are doing, as by trial and error, we can sometimes discover some really

spectacular things. Sanjay Rath has recently released many heretofore

little known details regarding naksatra dasas in his book "Udu and

Vimsottari dasa". Get it - its a good read, I'll guarantee you.

 

* BTW, let me take the opportunity to plug my new book, which is scheduled

to go to the publisher this coming February: "Drig dasa, and the Spiritual

Dimensions of Jyotish". In that book, I have expanded on many of the

themes mentioned above vis a vis creation, the application of the Virata

Pursusa (universal form of God) to the astrological chart according to

Vedic literatures such as Srimad Bhagavatam, how to time the periods of

spiritual illumination, and many other things, plus my rectifications of

the charts of Sri Krsna, Sri Caitanya, Jesus Christ, and many others. Its

been exciting putting all that together - I'll let you know when its ready

to ship.

 

OK, I'm out for today. Happy Thanksgiving - (But please spare the poor

Turkey)!

All the best,

Robert

 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

Dear Robert and group,

 

Thank you for that. It was really great to read it tonight sitting in

cold, wet southern England! It's really good to be back online again.

 

Good luck with the book and have a good thanksgiving.

 

Om Tat Sat

Robyn

 

 

gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> OM VISHNAVE NAMAH

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Dear Mu,

>

> At 05:15 PM 11/26/02 -0800, you wrote:

>

> >For example, for the past 2 or 3 years, I have

> >calculated Dasas from the Asc position ONLY, not from

> >the Moon, as per the classics. This has gotten me into

> >a good bit of trouble from the more hardened Vedics,

> >but I maintain my position - Dasa from the Asc degree

> >has proven to be most accurate in my work. I would

> >stake my life on it.

>

> Dear friend, you are not doing anything new here, by using the

lagna

> naksatra as the starting position for Vimsottari dasa. In fact,

classical

> Vedic literatures, particularly Jataka Parijata, give five

different

> starting naksatras, one of which is the lagna naksatra. Preference

of use

> is fine, absolutely, if you are getting good results.

>

> Expanding on this, however, lets just say that there are various

matters

> that need to be born in mind when using a system of calculation for

> Vimsottari dasa. Some of these are as follows:

>

> 1. Vimsottari dasas beginning with the lunar naksatra, show the

> progression of feelings and perceptions (Moon) of the environment

and

> unfolding karmas, to various points in a native's life. Since as

> conditioned souls Kali-yuga, we are mostly concerned with our

subjective

> realities, the lunar generated Vimsottari dasa works well most of

the time.

>

> 2. The lagna represents "Dhi shakti", or intelligence. This is

because

> the Deity Brahma sits at the ascendant cusp astrologically. By way

of

> joining with the material mode of passion (Raja-guna), and his

shakti of

> creation (sristi-shakti), who is personified by the Goddess

Saraswati,

> Brahma carries out the creation of the universes. Brahma (the

lagna) thus

> represents intelligence, while Saraswati, his wife, is the goddess

of

> learning. If anybody knows anything about anything, it results

from the

> blessings of the goddess. Correspondingly, the Vim. dasa

calculated from

> the lagna naksatra, shows evolving levels of discernment and

creative

> intelligence on the part of the native as regard his experience of

> life. Experience of life as perceived subjectively through the

mind and

> emotions, might thus be different than those experienced by way of

> objectivity and inspection.

>

> If we take these themes a bit higher, the energy necessary to bring

> physical realities into manifestation is a matter of one level of

> intelligence. Higher levels of intelligence, combine both the

intuitive,

> as well as the rational, and these are what are represented by

goddess

> Saraswati. So you see, with this in mind, the lunar generated as

well as

> lagna generated Vimsottari dasas are really one and the same,

although

> representing differing cognitive functions as they concern the

experience

> of the native. Either way, the events or experiences of life are

really a

> matter of perception in the world of form (Maya), as those who are

advanced

> in consciousness do not even experience pain or pleasure, what then

to

> speak of desire to improve themselves materially.

>

> Bottom line: Use what works, because both approaches were outlined

by the

> sage Vaidyanatha Diksita, who put the Jataka Parijata together

centuries ago.

>

> One more thing: There are many details regarding Vimsottari dasa

that are

> not emphasized by authors of most books. It is good to experiment,

as you

> are doing, as by trial and error, we can sometimes discover some

really

> spectacular things. Sanjay Rath has recently released many

heretofore

> little known details regarding naksatra dasas in his book "Udu and

> Vimsottari dasa". Get it - its a good read, I'll guarantee you.

>

> * BTW, let me take the opportunity to plug my new book, which is

scheduled

> to go to the publisher this coming February: "Drig dasa, and the

Spiritual

> Dimensions of Jyotish". In that book, I have expanded on many of

the

> themes mentioned above vis a vis creation, the application of the

Virata

> Pursusa (universal form of God) to the astrological chart according

to

> Vedic literatures such as Srimad Bhagavatam, how to time the

periods of

> spiritual illumination, and many other things, plus my

rectifications of

> the charts of Sri Krsna, Sri Caitanya, Jesus Christ, and many

others. Its

> been exciting putting all that together - I'll let you know when

its ready

> to ship.

>

> OK, I'm out for today. Happy Thanksgiving - (But please spare the

poor

> Turkey)!

> All the best,

> Robert

>

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> Ph: 541.318.0248