Zam's Possible Romance - My Thoughts...

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Zam, Chris, All,

 

Zam has told me of this girl he has met in recent

weeks, as well as the current circumstance. There are

a few things to consider before even going into this

girl's chart, which is important.

 

First off, in either of his chart's Zam has some

combinations that suggest a heightened degree of

difficulty insofar as finding the perfect ideal of

beauty/romance is concerned; Venus in the 12 house

almost always suggests this, all the moreso if it is

in the Signs of Libra (idealization) or Virgo (arch

discrimination). There is a "hard to please" quality

that goes along with this position, and I have seen

this many times. It explains, at least in part, why

Zam's search for "the one" has extended over many

years.

 

Secondly, in his Vedic chart, Saturn is debilitated in

the 7 house, and this repeats in the Navamsa. In his

Western chart, Zam has Venus conjunct Mercury, both in

Libra (extreme idealism) and both opposed Saturn.

Because Mercury and the 3 house is involved here, we

can expect more things along the lines of idealism in

thought and what not to be there. The Venus-Saturn

contacts also suggest a "late bloomer" effect, a

delayed maturation of emotional values and expression.

This in and of itself is not a bad thing, and

actually, it can suggest one that understands in a

very profound way what relationships are all about.

But it does require a good bit introspection, as any

contact involving Saturn does.

 

Saturn in the 7 house in the Vedic chart, and

debilitated, does not endear one towards

relationships, or if the person is interested, he or

she may find that they are constantly thrwarted in

some way. Sani is not a planet of togetherness, it the

planet of the ascetic, the loner, and it seeks to

divide, rather than bring together. However, in Zam's

case, Sani is the YK planet for him, meaning that it

can bring some measure of positive attributes. But

because of Saturn's intrinsic nature and because of

its state in his chart, he must work very hard

(Saturn) to get the relationship he seeks.

 

One thing that he will have to accept, and I know he

speaks to the contrary about this, but the signs are

all there in his charts - is that he will have to be

willing to take the good with the bad, as any

relationship has its ups and downs. No matter which

woman he eventually gets with, you can be certain that

she will have issues. Now, granted, you don't want to

unecessarily burden yourself with issues someone has,

but nonetheless, there WILL be issues. And especially

when you consider the American circumstance.

 

What I mean by that, and I have shared this with Zam,

is that the majority of American women, particuarly

Black women, have had to contend with issues of sex

and violence at the hands of some man in their

lifetime. All manner of studies and the like validates

this. And there are ways in which Astrology can be

used to see to what extent these issues will have an

impact on the woman in question. This brings me to the

girl Zam is talking about today.

 

If you look at this girl's chart, the Western one,

right away, you see the very close Mars-Pluto square,

Pluto ruling the 5 (Sex) and Mars ruling the 10

(Father, or some such figure). I have seen over and

over again that whenever Mars and Pluto are in aspect

to each other, and one of them rules the Parental

Axis, the probability is high that the woman (or in

some cases, it can occur in a man's chart) has been

sexually assaulted in the early home by one of the

parents or someone close to the family. This has

occured in this girl's case, and judging by the

closeness of Pluto to the IC here, I would guess that

it could have happened when she was about 11 or 12 (SA

Pluto opposed the MC).

 

With Pluto in the 3 house of the Mind, there is a lot

of anger from all of this, and the Chris is right to

point out the very strong declinational aspect between

Venus and Pluto; in fact, if you go a step further,

you will note that she also has Mars in extreme

degrees of declination. This is a very strongly sexual

horoscope.

 

But the problems come in when we see the

afore-mentioned abuse issues coming to light. If this

girl has received counseling (and I would have to

question that, as Zam has pointed out how she has been

snapping at him lately) she should be at least "ok"

with things now, and have some degree of trust with

the male species. On the other hand, if she has not,

it would make it very difficult, if not impossible for

her to have any close relationship with a man.

 

There are many positive contacts in both horoscope

formats between Zam and this girl, but that is not

enough. Far too many people focus on the quantity of

contacts instead of focusing on the quality of the two

people involved. I have seen many relationships that

have extremely high Kuta scores and the like fall by

the wayside, and I have also seen relationships that

have precious little working for it Astrologically,

and the couple stays to together for decades. My

dearly departed Mom and Dad are a case in point, and

if you take the time to see, you will find many such

cases yourself. Granted, you do want things to be a

smooth as possible, but what I fear is happening in

the world of Astrology is what has happened in America

overall - instead of grappling with the root of the

problems, you simply take a pill, and the problem

"goes away". Only, such approaches don't work, because

you cannot BS Reality itself. That is what Saturn

represents.

 

Which is most fitting here, as both Zam and this girl

is running the Dasa of Saturn. According to the

classical canons of Vedic Astrology on these matters,

when two people are having the same Dasa, it is

usually a good indication that things can work out

between them. However, we should keep in mind that

there are always exceptions. This woman is nearing the

end of her Saturn Dasa, Dasa-Sandhi it is called.

Because the sub-period of Jupiter is in operation, we

see relationship concerns at work, as Jupiter is the 7

lord. But again, Dasa Sandhi is at work. Such times

are not good for starting anything wherein which you

want them to grow in a positive way. It IS a great

time however, to get all of one's affairs in order, to

clear the decks for the upcoming Dasa, that of Mercury

for this woman, which will be the best 17 years of her

life. As per my calculations, this will begin in early

Sep of 2003, not far away. It will be a much better

time for her to entertain serious relationship or

marriage, as this Mercury Dasa will have a very good

effect on Jupiter, which again is the 7 lord. This

period, should Zam decide to stick it out, will be a

very prosperous one for him as well, as this woman's

chart will greatly benefit any man she gets with.

 

That is another key consideration in Classical India,

you know. Men were paired up with women who not only

had the proper alignments with their charts, but who

also had combinations that promised success for thier

husbands. Although today, women are accomplished

people in their own right, this principle still

applies. If you look at this woman's chart, you will

see right away that her Bhadra Yoga in association

with 7 lord Jupiter is very good for success overall,

and for the husband in particular. In fact, this is a

very good combination for maritial bliss, as this goes

under the name of Satkalatra Yoga. So, even with all

of this woman's past problems sexually, she can still

have a very satisfying relationship.

 

Now, going over to Zam's Vedic chart, we see that he

is running Dasas of two planets that are intimately

connected to his 7 house: Saturn major period and Mars

sub-period. One is in the 7 house and the other rules

it. These certainly points to relationship concerns

for sure, BUT because Mars and Saturn are both natural

malefics AND enemies, there are problems to contend

with here as well.

 

But, I think this is the most perfect thing for Zam.

Because, for any of us, the Malefics are our greatest

teachers. And in this case, Zam's greatest lessons in

this life will come in the form of relationships.

Saturn represents Maturity and Responsibility, and its

placement in his 7 house suggests major life lessons

to be learned here. I think it is a great opportunity

for him to grow in this relationship.

 

For both people here, Zam and his lady friend, Sade

Sati has just begun; in Zam's case, it involves his

Moon, and in his lady's case, it involves her Asc.

Sade Sati demands that one confront issues that one

was very afraid of, that they want to hide of keep

away from sight. But Saturn will allow them to do

this. It will bring up those issues for the person to

take a long look at, to deal with in a forthright way.

This is why Zam's lady has been snapping out lately,

and why I said that I'm not sure that she has had the

proper counseling to deal with it. It is a perfect

time for her to get that help, to really root all of

that stuff out of her psyche.

 

Sade Sati also is demanding that Zam "grow up", if not

here, than at some point before its 7.5 year transit

is up. His Saturn Dasa almost extends through that

entire time frame. Interesting. In many ways, the

Saturn Dasa will prove to be Zam's most profound in

his life. He too will have the Mercury Dasa, and it is

interesting to see that both he and his lady have it

exalted.

 

For some time, I have been wanting to write some

thoughts down on the area of relationships, and

Inshallah, I will do so soon. But what I will say

right now, is this: women in general will have issues

with men, as a result of the assaults and the like

that many men have visited on them. Further, it is no

accident that women are linked to the Moon and Venus,

to two fastest planets in the sky. This suggests their

inherent changability and fickle nature, and this is

not to say that is a bad thing, but it is to say men

should understand and respect this, and plan

accordingly.

 

It has been my experience that if a man shows a woman

patience, and takes time to understand her issues, she

will eventually come around. Because men in general

are ruled by the planet Sun and Mars, we tend to be

very direct and even abrupt; these planets are also

"cruel" and "harsh". They are malefics. The Moon and

Venus are benefics. They are inherently incompatible.

Therefore, relationship in and of itself is about

constantly learning how to manage conflict that will

arise beteen two people, between a man and woman.

 

It is also my opinion that is a couple can stay

together for a year, it is a good chance that they can

stay together for a lifetime. It makes no sense for

people to be together for 2, 3, 5, 7 years and not be

married. Women by and large, want, crave commitment.

And most men know, by the time a year has passed,

whether they want to be with that woman for the rest

of thier lives. Any man that does not, is a liar.

Period.

 

So therefore, it would behoove Zam to take a year with

this girl, and see where things go. If over the course

of that time, he has been able to assist her in

getting the help she needs and the rest of it, and

they still have feelings for each other, then they

should make plans to start a life together. If, on the

other hand, things fall apart, then he nor she, will

be the worse for it. This is what I not only tell my

clients in these matters, this is also what I have

applied in my own life.

 

I think if Zam is able to stay the course with this

girl, he will be enriched in a way that he is not

right now, and will have fulfilled his "classroom"

obligations.

 

Good Luck, Zam.

 

"This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds..."

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

--- Christopher Kevill

<christopher.kevill wrote:

> Zam,

>

> I took a look at you and your paramour's charts.

> There are a few nice hits there -- her 7L Jupiter

> conjunct your 1L Venus, your lagneshes are conjunct

> in Virgo -- but not a whole lot. The one really

> potentially huge hit was that your navamsha ruler

> Saturn 6Ar14 is exactly conjunct her navamsha ruler

> Mars 6 Ar21 -- only 7 minutes off! Maybe this is

> part of the deep attraction between you two. Still

> I can't help but wonder if you're floating on the

> temporary bliss of good sack time with her. She has

> the potential to be a dynamo there with the close

> Mars-Pluto square (Mars in the 7th) and the near

> exact declinational conjunction between Venus and

> Pluto. Those women can be like an addictive drug.

>

> I checked out the ashtaka varga scores. One thing

> that caught my eye was that she has a huge

> differential between her 1st house (39) and her 7th

> house (21). I recall something Houck said about

> such 1-7 differences in Digital Astrology: the

> people are usually like vampires that suck the

> energy from their partners. She could be a user, or

> as you have said, she may have been used by others.

> Either way, it's an area of concern.

>

> So without any massive connections between your

> charts and these caveats I've noted, I would resist

> moving down to Atlanta unless you wouldn't mind

> moving anyway. Wait and see if your feelings for

> her hold as the weeks pass. And definitely don't

> feel cowed by any ultimatums should there be any.

> Maybe your new Mercury bhuktie in Dec will help you

> decide with a clearer head. Until then, maybe

> arrange a couple of weekends down there with her to

> see how things are developing.

>

> Chris

>

> ----------

> > Zamani Feelings <zfeelings2

> > muruga

> > [muruga] Possible Romance

> > Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:09 AM

> >

>

> Hello everyone its Zamani .I need your assistance

> once again on a female that I am SERIOUSLY

> CONSIDERING getting romantically involved with ,

> possibly even relocating to be with .I like this

> girl tremendously and we have been getting along

> marvelously until recently.She just moved to Atlanta

> Georgia ( I live in Philadelphia PA) and is

> expressing an interest in me moving there with her.I

> am wondering how smart a move it might be now since

> as of late she has been acting rather strangely and

> snapping on me alot (ANGRILY SO).I understand that

> she is under a lot of stress, but I am also

> wondering if she doesnt have some mental

> problems.Shes a brilliant girl but at times seems a

> little mentally unstable and nasty..Shes a sweet

> person, shes been married before and she also

> suffered some sexual abuse at the hands of her

> grandfather.Please take a look at her chart as well

> as the synastry between us and let me know what you

> think.Im falling in love with her , but im starting

> to wonder if it will be to my own detriment

>

 

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western and Vedic Astrologer

mumin_bey

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mu

Great Post .Zamani is fortunate to have your good counsel

Salaam

Nicholas

-

"Mu'Min Bey" <mumin_bey