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Christopher,

 

Martin,

 

Just so you know, I am no Democrat and not even American for that

matter.

There -- that ought to fuel your engines some! That is not really

the

point. I just wanted to offer you and other people on this list some

opportunities to access different sources of information regarding

recent

world events. You don't have to take up the offer.

It does not surprise me to find out (I suspected so) that you aren't

American - but, it does

nothing to "fuel my engines", other than to say it may just BE the point. I

have traveled the

world. And it always puzzles me to find how so many countries enjoy the

fruits of trade

with America, yet don't bother knowing the people. We are a relatively

young country, at

times uncouth and rough - but we take baths. Not once, but countless times,

the US has

been called to help stop some form of tyranny or the other (the 2 World

Wars, Korea, etc.).

These same ungrateful countries, refuse to pay their share of the UN dues,

debts to the

US from the endless aid paid for by Americans. The 'information" you speak

of is little

more than rumor and drivel, in the same class as the Enquirer.

 

We' re all free to get the amount of knowledge that we each need to

live.

Everybody is different on that score. But there are a number of

enduring

questions about 9-11 that are not answered by any big media outlet

that I

am aware of. Here are just a couple: why was there a meeting between

Bin

Laden and a CIA agent in Dubai in July 2001? The meeting was

originally

reported by a French newspaper and later denied by the State

Department.

But what wasn't reported in the US was that Le Figaro stood by their

account after the US official denial and said that the information

came

from French intelligence. Given Bin Laden's past affiliation with

the CIA, I think this is a cloud that hangs over a possible CIA link

to

Al Qaeda. And then there is the whole question of the slow response

by

the Air Force to defend Washington on 9-11. Why did it take over an

hour to

scramble jets from Andrews Air Force Base to intercept either Flight

93

or the plane that crashed into the Pentagon -- especially after the

WTC

had been hit and it was surmised that this was an attack? And why

did

these jets, once scrambled, fly so slowly (less than 1/4 of their

top

speed) that they could not intercept any of the hikacked aircraft?

This

whole question is far more complex than I can do it justice -- it's

best if

members go to the site I mentioned before with the Thompson timeline

and

check it for themselves. Yes, there is a possibility that there was

a system-wide failure of NORAD and the Air Force to respond. But is

that the only explanation? I don't buy it, if only because so many

things had to have gone wrong for that outcome to occur. So I do

think

that the notion of a "stand down" order given to the Air force on

9-11 has

to at least entertained more seriously. The problem is that there

is no real discussion of these questions anywhere in the media.

Where do you get this so-called information? if there was a meeting between

bin Laden and

some CIA agent (by the way, an "Agent" is someone of normally foreign-born

status, working

on behalf of the CIA, NOT an employee of the CIA), of course they would deny

it. That

doesn't in any way mean there was a connection to 9/11 events. You imply

that the US

government supported this event. Ridiculous! And where did you get the

idea that the AF

jets responding to the attacks flew at 1/4 speed?

 

Iraq is a belligerent state in the region and Hussain runs a

dictatorial

police state. No news there. But they have very little capability to

actually strike against other countries. Former US weapons inspector

Scott

Ritter has gone on record about this. And more importantly, there

has been

zero evidence of any Al Qaeda links with Iraq. For my money, it's

about

oil and creating a war atmosphere at home. The US has a long term

plan for

region that involves taking over several countries in order to

secure oil

supplies. They need some kind of pretext (weapons of mass

destruction) in

order to do this in some politically acceptable way of course,

because

statecraft and imperialism can no longer follow the old crude ways.

But

it's all the same game, only with a more sophisticated audience.

Yes, I partially agree. Iraq IS for the moment PROBABLY unable to do any

real harm. So

was Hitler in the years before he invaded the Sudetenland, then Poland,

etc... Despite the

warning signals (a warning is the horn signaling you to leave BEFORE the

tornado hits), he

was allowed to build up his military because he "couldn't really do any

harm". Well, guess

what? He WAS able to do a great deal of harm - 6,000,000 Jews alone,

countless soldiers

form nearly every nation on the planet died because Hitler ad very little

capability. You're

right, the audience IS more sophisticated, and therefore even more certain

of their surety.

And altogether wrong. But here's the scary part - my point of view can only

be proven

correct, as it was in the late 30's, when Saddam IS finally able to launch a

nerve gas missile

or a nuclear bomb or some other such idiocy, and we find out suddenly, that

he CAN cause

some pretty sever harm. And I repeat, we don't NEED the oil.

 

America your phone is ringing

it is destiny calling

 

Best Regards,

Martin Michaels

-----------------------

Sr. Consultant

SBC-Ameritech

317-265-1143

mm6365

------------------------------

Sr. Systems Analyst

Nirvana Consulting

317-902-9432

gadgetcoder

 

'This work we do,

It's not "rocket science"...

It's much, MUCH harder.'

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Dear MArtin

I for one appreciate your posts and your point of view. I look forward to

them and actually enjoy seeing the different points of view. I like the way

you offer information to support your views rather than emotional

antagonism.

 

Astrologically, I do not see how a Vedic astrologer could find Hussein

benign.

cynthia

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Cynthia -

 

I don't see how ANYONE could Hussein benign. Oil or no oil, he needs

his claws clipped at the least.

 

Best Regards,

Martin Michaels

-----------------------

Sr. Consultant

SBC-Ameritech

317-265-1143

mm6365

------------------------------

Sr. Systems Analyst

Nirvana Consulting

317-902-9432

gadgetcoder

 

'This work we do,

It's not "rocket science"...

It's much, MUCH harder.'

 

 

>

> cynthia novak [cynthianovak]

> Monday, October 21, 2002 8:58 PM

> gjlist

> Re: [GJ] Bush/Saddam, etc.

>

>

> Dear MArtin

> I for one appreciate your posts and your point of view. I

> look forward to

> them and actually enjoy seeing the different points of view.

> I like the way

> you offer information to support your views rather than emotional

> antagonism.

>

> Astrologically, I do not see how a Vedic astrologer could find Hussein

> benign.

> cynthia

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

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Cynthia and Martin,

 

I don't think there is much argument from anybody that Saddam is a bad

person, astrology or not. Surely one doesn't go around threatening people

because they have Mars Rahu conjunctions! There are lots of nasty

dictators in the world that the US doesn't bother with. So is Saddam

really such a threat to the US? Beats me -- the only two times he invaded

another country, he ASKED the US if it was OK. Doesn't sound like the

behaviour of a Hitler-like madman. He invaded Iran 20 years ago and was

given extensive support by the US. In fact, the US helped him set up his

chemical and biological weapons programs. That's because the US regarded

Iran as a bigger threat. You see, your country likes to the rest of the

world as pawns in its ultimate power games. He invaded Kuwait after

requesting permission from the US. This is where the US pulled a fast one.

They tricked him by giving the OK but in effect they wanted him out. So

he invaded Kuwait and crossed that famous line in the sand and the Empire

got their justice done.

 

 

Not too many people know that Saddam was on the CIA payroll for over 20

years. He was part of the insurgent movement that overthrew the

democratically elected government in Iraq back in the 50s. So all these

guys are blowback -- former employees of the Holy Realm of the Eagle that

have got better ideas than to sit on Uncle Sam's knee.

 

Das, I know we're drifting into the non-astrological world here, but I feel

there are real implications for doing charts. We need to know what is

really going on before he can understand horoscopes of countries or their

leaders. So the 9-11 attacks need to assessed for the degree to which

they might have been an "inside job" -- and not simply an attack. Here I

would suggest that an out and out attack would have more 6th house flavour.

The possibility of a conspiracy implies the 8th house and the nodes, as

well as Neptune and Pluto. More on this as it occurs to me.

 

On the what really happened on 9-11 question, the excerpts from the

timeline I posted come from a number of different sources, including jet

pilots, newspapers, and television broadcasts. I know there is zero chance

of convincing either of you of the possibility that your government might

be concealing the truth from you (here's another one, was flight 93 shot

down? Contradictory evidence exists on that one too. Go to

http://www.flight93crash.com), but I post my opinions to let others in the

silent majority know that reality is more like a prism than a window. What

you see depends on what side you are looking through. The truth (!) is

that there is likely no amount of evidence that one could give that would

convince you that Saddam was not a real threat, or that Bush is conducting

the war to help his oil sponsors, or that elements in USA had something to

gain from 9-11 and indeed they allowed it happen. Hmm. Sounds like the

same attitude one gets from the Skeptical Inquirer types who debunk

astrology! One knows that there is certainly no amount of evidence we

could give them that might make them accept that there is something to

astrology after all. Some things just aren't open to reason.

 

best wishes,

Chris

 

 

 

----------

> MICHAELS, MARTIN (AIT) <mm6365

> 'gjlist'

> RE: [GJ] Bush/Saddam, etc.

> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:41 AM

>

> Cynthia -

>

> I don't see how ANYONE could Hussein benign. Oil or no oil, he needs

> his claws clipped at the least.

>

> Best Regards,

> Martin Michaels

> -----------------------

> Sr. Consultant

> SBC-Ameritech

> 317-265-1143

> mm6365

> ------------------------------

> Sr. Systems Analyst

> Nirvana Consulting

> 317-902-9432

> gadgetcoder

>

> 'This work we do,

> It's not "rocket science"...

> It's much, MUCH harder.'

>

>

> >

> > cynthia novak [cynthianovak]

> > Monday, October 21, 2002 8:58 PM

> > gjlist

> > Re: [GJ] Bush/Saddam, etc.

> >

> >

> > Dear MArtin

> > I for one appreciate your posts and your point of view. I

> > look forward to

> > them and actually enjoy seeing the different points of view.

> > I like the way

> > you offer information to support your views rather than emotional

> > antagonism.

> >

> > Astrologically, I do not see how a Vedic astrologer could find Hussein

> > benign.

> > cynthia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

 

>

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