Fw: Another apology/Bush's war on Iraq/sample from timeline

[Guest guest]

----------

> Christopher Kevill <christopher.kevill

> gjlist

> Re: [GJ] Another apology/Bush's war on Iraq/sample from timeline

> Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:10 PM

>

> Hi All,

>

> I know how it is with websites -- most of us just don't have the time to

> follow up every little thing. So I thought it would be interesting just

to

> post a few short excerpts from the Paul Thompson 9-11 timeline I referred

> to earlier. The extent of the detail here is a little mind-numbing but I

> think the author raises some relevant questions. It's sort of puzzling

why

> it falls to independent researchers to ask these questions rather than a

> full enquiry of the failure of the US armed forces to defend the country.

 

> The only official enquiry that has occurred thus far is a Senate enquiry

> about the intelligence community's failures. I wonder if there will ever

> be an enquiry into what actually happened that day.

>

> Chris

>

> {here begins the excerpts from the timeline]

>

> 8:52 A.M. Two F-15's take off from Otis ANG Base, 6 minutes after being

> ordered to go after Flight 11, which has already crashed. [8:52, NORAD,

> 9/18/01, 8:52, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:53, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:52,

> Washington Post, 9/15/01] This is 38 minutes after flight controllers

lost

> contact with the plane. They go after Flight 175 instead. According to

Maj.

> Gen. Paul Weaver, director of the Air National Guard, "the pilots flew

> 'like a scalded ape,' topping 500 mph but were unable to catch up to the

> airliner." [Dallas Morning News, 9/16/01] NORAD Major Gen. Larry Arnold

> says they were headed straight for New York City and traveling about 1100

> to 1200 mph. [slate, 1/16/02] "An F-15 departing from Otis can reach New

> York City in 10 to 12 minutes, according to an Otis spokewoman." [Cape

Cod

> Times, 9/16/01] According to Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, one of the pilots,

> before takeoff, a fellow officer had told him "This looks like the real

> thing." He says, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was

> in full-blower all the way." A NORAD commander has said the planes were

> stocked with extra fuel as well. [Aviation Week and Space Technology,

> 6/3/02] Full-blower is very rare - it means the fighters are going as

fast

> as they can go. F-15's can travel over 1875 mph. [Air Force News,

7/30/97]

> An at average speed of 1600 mph, they would have reached New York City in

7

> minutes - 8:59. An at average speed of 1125 mph, they would have reached

it

> in 10 minutes - 9:02 - still before Flight 175 crashes. Yet according to

> the NORAD timeline, these planes take about 19 minutes to reach New York

> City - less than 600 mph. Why so slow??

>

> (After 8:52) William Wibel, principal of a school inside Otis Air

National

> Guard Base in the Cape Cod region of Massachusetts, is inside the Otis

base

> preparing for a meeting. He hears about the WTC attack, and is told the

> meeting is canceled. He says, "As I drove away, and was listening to the

> news on the radio, the 102nd was scrambling into duty." [Cape Cod Times,

> 9/12/01] Given that the WTC story didn't break on local news and radio

> until about 8:52, and it must have taken him some time to learn the

meeting

> is cancel, go back to his car and so forth, he must have heard the

fighters

> take off well after 8:52. Yet NORAD says the fighters took off from Otis

at

> 8:52.

>

> (8:55 A.M.)  Flight 77 turns around over northeastern Kentucky, and heads

> back towards Washington. The plane has already started turning before the

> transponder signal is lost. [Washington Post, 9/12/01, Newsday, 9/23/01]

> This actually probably occurred about 5 minutes later, if one looks at

the

> flight path and calculates the timing. [see USA Today's Flight 77 flight

> path]

>

> (8:56 A.M.)  Flight 77's transponder signal is turned off. [8:56,

Guardian,

> 10/17/01, 8:56, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, "six minutes before" Flight 175

> hits WTC, Newsday, 9/23/01] For some minutes the plane is missing because

> flight controllers are looking for the radar signal towards the west and

> don't realize the plane is headed east. Rumors circulate that the plane

> might have exploded in midair. [Newsday, 9/23/01]

>

> (8:56 A.M.) According to the New York Times, by this time (if not

earlier),

> it is clear Flight 77 has gone missing. Yet the same newspaper points out

> NORAD is not notified about it for another 28 minutes! [New York Times,

> 10/16/01] Why were fighters not scrambled now to find Flight 77?

>

> (9:01 A.M.) Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting

> outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the

tower

> -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, 'There's

> one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.'

> But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about

it."

> [CNN, 12/4/01] He has repeated the story on other occasions. [White

House,

> 1/5/02, CBS, 9/11/02] Given that there actually was no film footage of

the

> first attack on TV until much later (and no footage of the plane actually

> hitting the tower), isn't this a clear lie to make it seem he didn't know

> what was happening? By 8:38, NORAD knew that Flight 11 was hijacked, and

by

> 8:43, they knew Flight 175 was hijacked. As the New York Times points

out,

> they also probably knew Flight 77 was hijacked a few minutes after 8:48.

> [New York Times, 9/15/01] He's had time to think about it - he's been

> briefed by his National Security Advisor on the situation. So by this

time

> Bush certainly knew two planes were hijacked and headed towards New York

> City, and probably knew of a third hijacking. Yet he can only think

> "There's one terrible pilot"?

>

> (9:03 A.M. and After) The minute Flight 175 hits the south tower, F-15

> pilot Maj. Daniel Nash says that clear visibility allows him to see smoke

> pour out of Manhattan, even though he is 71 miles away. However, he says

he

> can't recall actually being told of the Flight 11 hit. And he isn't told

> about the danger of Flight 175 until after it too has crashed. And

instead

> of being ordered to New York City, the two F-15's are ordered to hover in

a

> 150-mile chunk of air space off the coast of Long Island. "Neither the

> civilian controller or the military controller knew what they wanted us

to

> do." But then a few minutes later, they receive orders to head to

Manhattan

> for combat air patrol, and they do that for the next four hours. At no

> point are these pilots given permission to shoot down any airliners. Nash

> points out that even if he had reached New York City before Flight 175,

he

> couldn't shoot it down because only the President could make that

decision

> and he was indisposed at a public event. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02] Why

are

> the pilots not being told of their targets? Why are they being sent out

> into the ocean? Why IS Bush reading a book about a goat when all this is

> happening?

>

> (After 9:03 A.M.) Shortly after the second WTC crash, calls from fighter

> units start "pouring into NORAD and sector operations centers, asking,

> 'What can we do to help?' At Syracuse, New York, an ANG commander [tells

> Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) commander Robert] Marr, 'Give me 10

> min. and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 min. and I'll have

heat-seeker

> [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams].'" Marr

> replies, "I want it all." [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02]

Yet

> supposedly, the first fighters don't take off from Syracuse until 10:44 -

> over an hour and a half later. These are supposedly the first fighters

> scrambled from the ground aside from three at Langley, two at Otis, and

two

> fighters that took off from Toledo at 10:16. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/01] What

> happened to all these volunteer fighters? Armed fighters could have been

in

> the air from Syracuse by 9:20 or so, yet supposedly, when NORAD needed

> fighters to go after Flight 93 at least 20 minutes after that, the only

> ones they sent were two completely unarmed fighters on a training mission

> near Detroit! [ABC News, 8/30/02] The only likely explanation is that

these

> fighters were prohibited from taking off. Aircraft cannon (the "hot guns"

> mentioned) would have been all that was needed in such a situation, since

> any fighter would presumably follow procedure and intercept visually

first,

> tip their wings from a very short distance away, fire a warning shot, and

> so on, before firing on the plane.

>

> (After 9:03 A.M.) A few minutes after 9:03, the Secret Service calls

> Andrews Air Force Base, located 10 miles from Washington. They are

notified

> to get F-16's armed and ready to fly. Missiles are still being loaded

onto

> the F-16's when the Pentagon is hit over half an hour later. [Aviation

Week

> and Space Technology, 9/9/02] The problem with this account is that prior

> to 9/11, The District of Columbia Air National Guard (located at Andrews)

> had a publicly stated mission "to provide combat units in the highest

> possible state of readiness." Shortly after 9/11 this mission statement

on

> its website is changed, so it merely has a "vision" to "provide peacetime

> command and control and administrative mission oversight to support

> customers, DCANG units, and NGB in achieving the highest levels of

> readiness." [DCANG Home Page (before and after the change)] Either

Andrews

> failed in its stated mission, or fighters were not ordered to scramble so

> early.

>

> 9:09 A.M. Supposedly, NORAD orders F-16's at Langley Air Force Base,

> Virginia, on battle stations alert. Yet the order to scramble won't come

> till 9:27 or so, and they won't take off until 9:30. Around this time,

the

> FAA command center reports 11 aircraft either not in communication with

FAA

> facilities, or flying unexpected routes. [Aviation Week and Space

> Technology, 6/3/02] So why aren't planes scrambled immediately, at 9:09

or

> even before, to find out what's going on? One of the pilots who actually

> took off from Langley says the battle stations alert isn't sounded until

> 9:24. [The book Among the Heroes, 8/02, p. 64-65]

>

> 9:15 A.M. American Airlines orders no new takeoffs in the US, United

> Airlines follows suit 5 minutes later.[Wall Street Journal, 10/15/01]

>

>

> 9:16 A.M.  The FAA informs NORAD that Flight 93 may have been hijacked.

No

> fighters are scrambled in specific response, now or later (there is the

> possibility some fighters sent after Flight 77 later headed towards

Flight

> 93). Although this is what CNN learned from NORAD, its not clear why

NORAD

> claims it was hijacked at this time (NORAD's own timeline inexplicably

> fails to say when the FAA told them about the hijack, the only flight

they

> fail to provide this data for). [CNN, 9/17/01 , NORAD, 9/18/01] However,

> there may be one explanation: Fox News TV reported that "Investigators

> believe that on at least one flight, one of the hijackers was already

> inside the cockpit before takeoff." Cockpit voice recordings indicate

that

> Flight 93's pilots believed their guest was a colleague "and was thereby

> extended the typical airline courtesy of allowing any pilot from any

> airline to join a flight by sitting in the jumpseat, the folded over

extra

> seat located inside the cockpit." [NewsMax, 9/25/01] Note that all

> witnesses later report seeing only 3 hijackers, not 4. So perhaps one

> hijacker tenuously held control of the cockpit as the original pilots

still

> flew it, while waiting for reinforcements? Could this have happened

before

> 9:01, when Flight 93 got a warning to beware of cockpit intrusions? Note

> that the crash of Flight 77 is still 25 minutes away. F-16 fighters from

> the far off Langley Air Force Base could have reached Washington in 6

> minutes if they traveled at 1300 mph (maximum speed for an F-16 is 1500

> mph). Even if the fighters were traveling slower and it took some minutes

> to get the plane off the ground, they still could easily have made it to

> Washington in those 25 minutes and prevented the Flight 77 crash.

>

> 9:24 A.M. The FAA notifies NORAD that Flight 77 "may" have been hijacked

> and appears to be headed towards Washington. [9:24, NORAD, 9/18/01, 9:24,

> AP, 8/19/02, 9:25, CNN, 9/17/01, 9:25, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 9:25,

> Guardian, 10/17/01] This notification is 34 MINUTES after flight control

> lost contact with the plane and well after two planes have crashed, and

> even then the FAA only says "may"? Is such a long delay believable, or

has

> that information been doctored to cover the lack of any scrambling of

> fighters? Additionally, with the exception of Vice President Cheney and

> possibility a few others, no one is evacuated in Washington until after

the

> Pentagon crash. A Pentagon spokesman says, "The Pentagon was simply not

> aware that this aircraft was coming our way." Even Defense Secretary

> Rumsfeld and his top aides in the Pentagon remain unaware of any danger

up

> to the moment of impact 17 minutes later. [Newsday, 9/23/01] Yet since at

> least the Flight 11 crash, "military officials in a command center [the

> National Military Command Center] on the east side of the [Pentagon] were

> urgently talking to law enforcement and air traffic control officials

about

> what to do." [New York Times, 9/15/01] Is it believable that everyone in

> the Pentagon outside of that command center, even the Secretary of

Defense,

> would remain uniformed?

>

> (9:27 A.M.)  NORAD orders 3 F-16 fighters scrambled from Langley Air

Force

> Base in Virginia to intercept Flight 77. Langley is 129 miles from

> Washington. Ready aircraft at Andrews Air Force Base, 15 miles away, are

> not scrambled. [Newsday, 9/23/01] [9:24, NORAD, 9/18/01, 9:27, CNN,

> 9/17/01, 9:25, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 9:35, CNN, 9/17/01, 9:35,

> Washington Post, 9/15/01] Note that according to the official NORAD

> timeline, they ordered the F-16's scrambled the same minute they were

told

> about the hijacking. A rare example of competence. But earlier, according

> to their own timeline, they waited 6 minutes before scrambling fighters

> after Flight 11. Why? Flight 77 had supposedly been missing from the

radar

> screen since 8:56. Why wait 31 minutes to send a plane and find out where

> it is?

>

> (9:41 A.M.)  Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. The section of the

> Pentagon hit consists mainly of newly renovated, unoccupied offices.

> Approximately 125 are later determined killed or missing. The surface to

> air missiles presumably surrounding the Pentagon are not fired in

defense.

> Fighters are supposedly still 105 miles or 12 minutes away. [Newsday,

> 9/23/01, NORAD, 9/18/01] [9:37, NORAD, 9/18/01, 9:37, Washington Post,

> 9/12/01, 9:38, CNN, 9/17/01, 9:38, Guardian, 10/17/01, 9:39, Washington

> Post, 1/27/02, 9:40, AP, 8/19/02, 9:43, CNN, 9/12/01, 9:43, MSNBC,

9/22/01,

> 9:43, MSNBC, 9/3/02, 9:43, New York Times, 9/12/01, 9:45, Boston Globe,

> 11/23/01] NORAD states the fighters took off from Langley at 9:30, 129

> miles away, yet when Flight 77 crashes they are still 105 miles away.

> [NORAD, 9/18/01] So that means they must have been flying at an average

of

> about 130 mph! Even if one uses the NORAD crash time of 9:37 (which we

know

> is untrue), that still averages to only about 205 mph!

>

>

>

> <Picture>

> This photo was taken mere moments after the Pentagon crash. [sIPA]

>

> 9:41 A.M. The F-16 pilot codenamed Honey later offers a different

> explanation of where the F-16's are when Flight 77 crashes into the

> Pentagon. He says they are flying towards New York, when they see a black

> column of smoke coming from Washington, about 30 or 40 miles to the west.

> He is then asked over the radio by the North East Air Defense Sector of

> NORAD if he can confirm the Pentagon is burning. He confirms it. The

F-16's

> are then ordered to set up a defensive perimeter above Washington. [The

> book Among the Heroes, 8/02, p. 76] This contradicts the official NORAD

> claim that the F-16's were still 105 miles away when the Pentagon was

hit.

> [NORAD, 9/18/01] If his account is true, it shows that the F-16's would

> have been over Washington in time to shoot down Flight 77 if they had

been

> given orders to fly to Washington, and not to New York, which was already

> defended by 2 F-15's! (additionally, subtract 8-10 miles (Sidewinder

> missile) or 12-20 miles (Sparrow missile) from the flight distance

required

> for the fighters [slate, 1/16/02]) Well before these F-16's took off,

NORAD

> already knew there was a threat to Washington and that New York was being

> defended by F-15's, and yet they were ordered to New York and Washington

> was left undefended? At 9:36, a C-130, a slow and large transport plane,

> was ordered to intercept and identify Flight 77, and these F-16's were

not?

> If Honey's account is true, and the F-16's took off at, say, 9:34, they

> would have been averaging a speed of about 1100 mph up to the Pentagon

> crash, much more reasonable than the crazy speeds of 200 mph and the like

> if one follows the NORAD story. It would also explain eyewitness claims

of

> fighters over Washington only a couple of minutes after the Pentagon

crash,

> not at 9:56 when they supposedly arrived. At 1100 mph, it would have

taken

> about 3 minutes for Honey to reach Washington from where he says he was.

>

> (9:49 A.M.)  3 F-16's scrambled from Langley at 9:30 reach the Pentagon.

> The planes, armed with heat-seeking, Sidewinder missiles, are authorized

to

> knock down civilian aircraft. According to NORAD, they were flying at 650

> mph. The official maximum speed for F-16's is 1500 mph. [9:49, CNN,

> 9/17/01, 9:49, NORAD, 9/18/01, 9:56: "15 minutes after Flight 77 hit the

> Pentagon", New York Times, 9/15/01, "just before 10:00," CBS, 9/14/01]

> Using the New York Times arrival time and given that Langley is 129 miles

> away, this means the fighters were flying at an average speed of about

300

> mph! But using NORAD's official departure time of 9:30 and even the

> generous CNN arrival time, the journey takes 19 minutes, or a speed of

> about 410 mph!

>

> (Before 10:06 A.M.) Numerous eyewitnesses see and hear Flight 93 just

> before its crash:

> 1) Terry Butler, at Stoystown: he sees the plane come out of the clouds,

> low to the ground. "It was moving like you wouldn't believe. Next thing I

> knew it makes a heck of a sharp, right-hand turn." It banks to the right

> and appears to be trying to climb to clear one of the ridges, but it

> continues to turn to the right and then veers behind a ridge. About a

> second later it crashes. [st. Petersburg Times, 9/12/01]

> 2) Ernie Stuhl, the mayor of Shanksville: "I know of two people -- I will

> not mention names -- that heard a missile. They both live very close,

> within a couple of hundred yards... This one fellow's served in Vietnam

and

> he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." He adds that based

on

> what he has learned, F-16's were "very, very close." [Philadelphia Daily

> News, 11/15/01]

> Accounts of the plane making strange noises:

> 3) Laura Temyer of Hooversville: "I didn't see the plane but I heard the

> plane's engine. Then I heard a loud thump that echoed off the hills and

> then I heard the plane's engine. I heard two more loud thumps and didn't

> hear the plane's engine anymore after that" (she insists that people she

> knows in state law enforcement have privately told her the plane was shot

> down, and that decompression sucked objects from the aircraft, explaining

> why there was a wide debris field). [Philadelphia Daily News,

> 11/15/01]----------

>