Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Hello idg and others, There is a verse in the Bhagvad Gita which goes something like this--- "Bewildered by the three modes of nature,the soul thinks itself to be the doer of activities which are in actuality carried out by material nature.In reality,the self does nothing nor causes anything to be done" Now someone may ask-- how come I am not the doer of activity?I have a choice regarding what I do.Right now I am in a position to choose-- I can raise my left hand or right hand,I can either stand up or sit down,etc. The answer is that it is your mind that is deciding. But you are not the mind.You are the soul,the perceiver, who is different from the mind which is the subtle body. What the gross body and subtle body will do is predestined.the soul just experiences. That you will become an astrologer or not is also predestined. I remember one story regarding PREDETERMINISM. There was a king whose son,the prince was about to return home after finishing his education at a gurukul. It so happened that long back a sage had prophesised that the king will die at his sons hand.The period when that will happen was also predicted.It coincided with the time when the prince would be back. The king was very scared-- so he decided to stay away from his kingdom till the danger period was over. At that time a sports festival was going on in a neighbouring kingdom and the king decided to go there and watch the games. It so happened that the prince on his return journey came to know about the prophecy.Of course he wouldnt kill the king deliberately-- but fearing some sort of accident,he decided to delay his return till the period was over. The prince was good at sports and he had heard about the festival.so he decided to try his hand at the games ..One of the games he participated in was a spear throwing contest.He missed the mark and the spear went into the crowds.Guess whom it killed? Best regards, vivek. --- idasgupta98 <idasgupta98 wrote: > "Krsna allowed Arjuna saw the whole battle of > Kuruksetra before it > happened but he did not see the death of his son > Abhimanya because if > he had he would have been able to prevent it. So > astrolgers may also > be limited in seeing the future." > > > does this mean that we all (incl. astrologers) see > only what we want > to see and somehow subconsciously maybe, ignore the > obvious? > > that is indeed fearsome. and not very encouraging. > > idg. > > gjlist, "Piotr Tomiak" <param@p...> > wrote: > > Dear Nicholas, > > > > Nice written- I really enjoyed it: > > > > "Ultimately it is up to Krsna what the astrologer > can see or cannot > see > > because in Bhagavad Gita Krsna says that from him > comes knowledge , > memory > > and forgetfulness . So if an astrologer aspires to > be succeeful and > helpful > > to his/her clients some sadhana is advised as well > as being careful > to keep > > the consciousness Satvic which is pleasing to > Krishna . I have > mentioned > > before that in Bhagavad Gita Krsna allowed Arjuna > saw the whole > battle of > > Kuruksetra before it happened but he did not see > the death of his > son > > Abhimanya because if he had he would have been > able to prevent > it .So > > astrolgers may also be limited in seeing the > future ." > > > > Best wishes > > Paramjyoti dasa > > > > > > Nicholas [jyotish108@h...] > > Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:09 PM > > gjlist > > Re: [GJ] Help needed: Ketu Mahadasha - > Visti > > > > > > Dear Jay > > > > > > You wrote: <"astrologer directs the client > towards the > potentialities "> > > > Me: Indeed this is the major target for a > serious astrologer > but how > > > would you explain that one astrologer will > advice his client due > to some > > > specific indications in a chart HE produced, > while another will > see no > > issue > > > there due to the use of a different ayanamsa (or > any other > disputable > > > factor) which will place planet(s) in a > different > house/sign/Nakshatra > > etc. > > > etc. ... ? > > > > > > Kind regards > > > Jay > > > > This is probably another long discussion subject > but it is an > excellent > > query and good to keep in mind how jyotish fits > into the overall > scheme of > > things . > > > > . My reply would be that there is a lot in a chart > ,just as their > is a lot > > to a person and their lives .So looking at a chart > one astrologer > will see > > something and another astrologer will see > something else .There is > the > > individuality of the astrologer also .There are a > lot of techniques > out > > there and some jyotishis prefer some and some > prefer others .And > some are > > good with some and good with others . There are > different > perspectives of > > different astrologers to also like the famous half > full half empty > example . > > Occasionally my own chart comes up for discussion > and I am often > surprised > > (although I shouldn't be ! ) that someone comes up > with something > that I'd > > never seen or noticed before . The understanding > of a chart tends > to grow > > over time .Another point here is that the > astrologer himself is > subject to > > karma ,dashas and transits and may have better and > weaker days and > periods . > > > > Ultimately it is up to Krsna what the astrologer > can see or cannot > see > > because in Bhagavad Gita Krsna says that from him > comes knowledge , > memory > > and forgetfulness . So if an astrologer aspires to > be succeeful and > helpful > > to his/her clients some sadhana is advised as well > as being careful > to keep > > the consciousness Satvic which is pleasing to > Krishna . I have > mentioned > > before that in Bhagavad Gita Krsna allowed Arjuna > saw the whole > battle of > > Kuruksetra before it happened but he did not see > the death of his > son > > Abhimanya because if he had he would have been > able to prevent > it .So > > astrolgers may also be limited in seeing the > future . > > > > Kind regards > > Nicholas > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > Sat > > : > gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > Sat > : > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > ______________________ Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, TV. visit http://in.tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 I do understand what you are talking about. but my question was a bit different. I am inherently uncomfortable with divine intervention our and perception of it, be it in Jyotish or anything. as such, as I am learning jyotish, if you tell me that I have to perceive the truth that Krishna has determined, I am at a loss. So while I understand that Nicolas or Visti or you might be able to have the heightened sense of action and reaction that I don't, it still handicaps me in terms of my supposed knowledge in deciphering charts. because this is extraneous information that I just don't have. please, I am not doubting you or anyone or anything else. I am just saying that it is difficult for me to grasp the "hows" of this kind of analysis. thanks for your time. indrani. gjlist, vivek <keviv90> wrote: > Hello idg and others, > There is a verse in the Bhagvad Gita which goes > something like this--- "Bewildered by the three modes > of nature,the soul thinks itself to be the doer of > activities which are in actuality carried out by > material nature.In reality,the self does nothing nor > causes anything to be done" > Now someone may ask-- how come I am not the doer of > activity?I have a choice regarding what I do.Right now > I am in a position to choose-- I can raise my left > hand > or right hand,I can either stand up or sit down,etc. > The answer is that it is your mind that is deciding. > But you are not the mind.You are the soul,the > perceiver, who is different from the mind which is the > subtle body. > What the gross body and subtle body will do is > predestined.the soul just experiences. > That you will become an astrologer or not is also > predestined. > I remember one story regarding PREDETERMINISM. > There was a king whose son,the prince was about to > return home after finishing his education at a > gurukul. > It so happened that long back a sage had prophesised > that the king will die at his sons hand.The period > when > that will happen was also predicted.It coincided with > the time when the prince would be back. > The king was very scared-- so he decided to stay away > from his kingdom till the danger period was over. At > that time a sports festival was going on in a > neighbouring kingdom and the king decided to go there > and watch the games. > It so happened that the prince on his return journey > came to know about the prophecy.Of course he wouldnt > kill the king deliberately-- but fearing some sort of > accident,he decided to delay his return till the > period was over. > The prince was good at sports and he had heard about > the festival.so he decided to try his hand at the > games > .One of the games he participated in was a spear > throwing contest.He missed the mark and the spear went > into the crowds.Guess whom it killed? > Best regards, > vivek. > > > --- idasgupta98 <idasgupta98> wrote: > > "Krsna allowed Arjuna saw the whole battle of > > Kuruksetra before it > > happened but he did not see the death of his son > > Abhimanya because if > > he had he would have been able to prevent it. So > > astrolgers may also > > be limited in seeing the future." > > > > > > does this mean that we all (incl. astrologers) see > > only what we want > > to see and somehow subconsciously maybe, ignore the > > obvious? > > > > that is indeed fearsome. and not very encouraging. > > > > idg. > > > > gjlist, "Piotr Tomiak" <param@p...> > > wrote: > > > Dear Nicholas, > > > > > > Nice written- I really enjoyed it: > > > > > > "Ultimately it is up to Krsna what the astrologer > > can see or cannot > > see > > > because in Bhagavad Gita Krsna says that from him > > comes knowledge , > > memory > > > and forgetfulness . So if an astrologer aspires to > > be succeeful and > > helpful > > > to his/her clients some sadhana is advised as well > > as being careful > > to keep > > > the consciousness Satvic which is pleasing to > > Krishna . I have > > mentioned > > > before that in Bhagavad Gita Krsna allowed Arjuna > > saw the whole > > battle of > > > Kuruksetra before it happened but he did not see > > the death of his > > son > > > Abhimanya because if he had he would have been > > able to prevent > > it .So > > > astrolgers may also be limited in seeing the > > future ." > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Paramjyoti dasa > > > > > > > > > Nicholas [jyotish108@h...] > > > Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:09 PM > > > gjlist > > > Re: [GJ] Help needed: Ketu Mahadasha - > > Visti > > > > > > > > > Dear Jay > > > > > > > > You wrote: <"astrologer directs the client > > towards the > > potentialities "> > > > > Me: Indeed this is the major target for a > > serious astrologer > > but how > > > > would you explain that one astrologer will > > advice his client due > > to some > > > > specific indications in a chart HE produced, > > while another will > > see no > > > issue > > > > there due to the use of a different ayanamsa (or > > any other > > disputable > > > > factor) which will place planet(s) in a > > different > > house/sign/Nakshatra > > > etc. > > > > etc. ... ? > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > Jay > > > > > > This is probably another long discussion subject > > but it is an > > excellent > > > query and good to keep in mind how jyotish fits > > into the overall > > scheme of > > > things . > > > > > > . My reply would be that there is a lot in a chart > > ,just as their > > is a lot > > > to a person and their lives .So looking at a chart > > one astrologer > > will see > > > something and another astrologer will see > > something else .There is > > the > > > individuality of the astrologer also .There are a > > lot of techniques > > out > > > there and some jyotishis prefer some and some > > prefer others .And > > some are > > > good with some and good with others . There are > > different > > perspectives of > > > different astrologers to also like the famous half > > full half empty > > example . > > > Occasionally my own chart comes up for discussion > > and I am often > > surprised > > > (although I shouldn't be ! ) that someone comes up > > with something > > that I'd > > > never seen or noticed before . The understanding > > of a chart tends > > to grow > > > over time .Another point here is that the > > astrologer himself is > > subject to > > > karma ,dashas and transits and may have better and > > weaker days and > > periods . > > > > > > Ultimately it is up to Krsna what the astrologer > > can see or cannot > > see > > > because in Bhagavad Gita Krsna says that from him > > comes knowledge , > > memory > > > and forgetfulness . So if an astrologer aspires to > > be succeeful and > > helpful > > > to his/her clients some sadhana is advised as well > > as being careful > > to keep > > > the consciousness Satvic which is pleasing to > > Krishna . I have > > mentioned > > > before that in Bhagavad Gita Krsna allowed Arjuna > > saw the whole > > battle of > > > Kuruksetra before it happened but he did not see > > the death of his > > son > > > Abhimanya because if he had he would have been > > able to prevent > > it .So > > > astrolgers may also be limited in seeing the > > future . > > > > > > Kind regards > > > Nicholas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > > Sat > > > : > > gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > > Sat > > : > > gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ __ > Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, TV. > visit http://in.tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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