MY RIGHT TO SPEAK--my thoughts about your post -- MD

[Guest guest]

Robert:

 

I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

anyone with physical harm. What Dina has stated appear to be

statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges, etc.--

If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt them.

In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

 

You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

physical harm.

 

Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this dispute.

Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you however,

should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

Dina with physical harm.

 

You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has the

character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

legal liability to the organization.

 

I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally. I'm

just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

 

MD

 

 

 

 

 

gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> MY RIGHT TO SPEAK

>

> Now, all this week I have been sitting in my office in a Gandhian-

like

> silence, while a certain individual by the name of Dinanath das has

had a

> free run to drop the contents of his bowels on the Internet about

me. I

> don't know what he's been eating this week, but I can tell you here

and

> now, I will not sit here and eat the remnants of his lunch

anymore. Now I

> want to say something for myself, and all the persons who have been

> maliciously and mercilessly slimed by this boy this week. This is

> something a man has to do, apart from his Arudha (whatever it may

be), so

> pardon me if anybody feels this is too harsh, or you would rather

me tell

> you about Jyotish, or whatever. If you are not willing or ready to

hear

> this, then don't read from here on:

>

> TO DINANATH DAS

>

> You do not know me, have never met me, yet you have trashed my

reputation

> and name based on here-say, lies, and complete misinformation.

You have

> maligned good people, all spiritualists and Jyotish teachers; have

trashed

> your Jyotish guru, disgraced a lady on the Internet, committed

fraud and

> self-misrepresentation, hi-jacked a whole organization, stolen its

web

> site, and all the while sanctimoniously sitting on the throne of

judgment

> of others, setting yourself up as some kind of perfect holy man and

the

> emblem of truth. You have broken the hearts of my friends,

clients, and

> students. You have made my wife and my mother cry.

>

> Well this is my message for you: YOU ARE A WEASEL AND A COWARD.

Come out

> from behind your computer screen for one moment, and stop

terrorizing

> people whose sincerity bears itself out by its own example. Come

and meet

> with me. Here where I live near the Oregon mountains, there are

lots of

> meadows and open spaces where we can meet. Or, lets meet in a

place of

> your choosing, yet where its just you and me. Do this like a man,

instead

> of like a whiny little boy who couldn't get his way. Come and meet

with

> me, and TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK TO MY FACE, YOU SON OF A

BITCH.

>

>

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

Dear Monmuk 111,

 

If you are as impartial as you say in this dispute:

 

"I'm

just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

completely impartial in posting my thoughts."

 

 

Would you mind telling us who you are? Everybody else has had to write under

their real names.

 

And I noticed something interesting. Are you from South Africa? You used the

word "Ya" for "yes".

 

Robyn

 

 

 

-

"monmuk111" <monmuk111

<gjlist>

Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:50 PM

[GJ] Re: MY RIGHT TO SPEAK--my thoughts about your post -- MD

 

 

> Robert:

>

> I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

> Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

> anyone with physical harm. What Dina has stated appear to be

> statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

> Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges, etc.--

> If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt them.

> In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

>

> You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

> physical harm.

>

> Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this dispute.

> Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you however,

> should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

> Dina with physical harm.

>

> You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has the

> character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

> want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

> profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

> legal liability to the organization.

>

> I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally. I'm

> just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

>

> MD

>

>

>

>

>

> gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> > MY RIGHT TO SPEAK

> >

> > Now, all this week I have been sitting in my office in a Gandhian-

> like

> > silence, while a certain individual by the name of Dinanath das has

> had a

> > free run to drop the contents of his bowels on the Internet about

> me. I

> > don't know what he's been eating this week, but I can tell you here

> and

> > now, I will not sit here and eat the remnants of his lunch

> anymore. Now I

> > want to say something for myself, and all the persons who have been

> > maliciously and mercilessly slimed by this boy this week. This is

> > something a man has to do, apart from his Arudha (whatever it may

> be), so

> > pardon me if anybody feels this is too harsh, or you would rather

> me tell

> > you about Jyotish, or whatever. If you are not willing or ready to

> hear

> > this, then don't read from here on:

> >

> > TO DINANATH DAS

> >

> > You do not know me, have never met me, yet you have trashed my

> reputation

> > and name based on here-say, lies, and complete misinformation.

> You have

> > maligned good people, all spiritualists and Jyotish teachers; have

> trashed

> > your Jyotish guru, disgraced a lady on the Internet, committed

> fraud and

> > self-misrepresentation, hi-jacked a whole organization, stolen its

> web

> > site, and all the while sanctimoniously sitting on the throne of

> judgment

> > of others, setting yourself up as some kind of perfect holy man and

> the

> > emblem of truth. You have broken the hearts of my friends,

> clients, and

> > students. You have made my wife and my mother cry.

> >

> > Well this is my message for you: YOU ARE A WEASEL AND A COWARD.

> Come out

> > from behind your computer screen for one moment, and stop

> terrorizing

> > people whose sincerity bears itself out by its own example. Come

> and meet

> > with me. Here where I live near the Oregon mountains, there are

> lots of

> > meadows and open spaces where we can meet. Or, lets meet in a

> place of

> > your choosing, yet where its just you and me. Do this like a man,

> instead

> > of like a whiny little boy who couldn't get his way. Come and meet

> with

> > me, and TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK TO MY FACE, YOU SON OF A

> BITCH.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> > Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> > Ph: 541.318.0248

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find that Dina and crew are using again, the act of being all Mercurial,

politically correct, Roman to a T, rhetoric, and not saying anything either,

nothing substantial. Please would anyone commenting here give their full

names and addresses, as I always do, please.

 

Thank you.

 

If you don't, then don't speak. No chickens in this assembly today. This is

for real people who can stand and be counted.

 

Das Goravani

[Guest guest]

Dear Michael,

 

Yes, that makes it much, much better. Let's get the thing out into the open

about who we are and what we are doing here. I am sure Das won't mind. His

posts crack me up a lot of the time and relieve the tension.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for. I certainly did with Jyotish.

Provided one takes in the right frame of mind it certainly gives one vast

amount of information about oneself primarily and thus makes one a stronger

person and more easily able to relate to the pain of others.

 

If you want any more good articles go to my website at

www.jyotishdiscovery.com. I am sure you will find a lot more there to

interest you.

 

Best wishes

Robyn

 

 

-

"monmuk111" <monmuk111

<gjlist>

Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:11 PM

[GJ] Re: MY RIGHT TO SPEAK--my thoughts about your post -- MD

 

 

> Hello Robyn:

>

> My name is Mike Desai. I grew up in San Francisco, CA and I currently

> live in Bellevue, Washington.

>

> I was highly successful academically, professionally and financially

> in my life; however, my family life (marital) was a nightmare--I've

> had two divorces--last one was very painful.

>

> In order to find an answer to repeated faliures of my marriages, I

> sought out help from Vedic Atrologers. Each and every one of the

> astrologers I contacted used a software to pop out a standard reading

> that didn't help me at all.

>

> Therefore, I decided to learn Vedic Astrology myself and figure why

> God wasn't willing to let me have a happy family life. I was

> searching for a book "Vaults of Heaven" by Ernst Wilhelm on the net

> and ran into the Vedic-Astrology group and Das Goravani board and

> I've been lurking on these boards for about a month.

>

> Hope I've answered your question.

>

> MD

>

> gjlist, "Robyn" <resimpson@w...> wrote:

> > Dear Monmuk 111,

> >

> > If you are as impartial as you say in this dispute:

> >

> > "I'm

> > just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> > this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> > completely impartial in posting my thoughts."

> >

> >

> > Would you mind telling us who you are? Everybody else has had to

> write under

> > their real names.

> >

> > And I noticed something interesting. Are you from South Africa? You

> used the

> > word "Ya" for "yes".

> >

> > Robyn

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> > <gjlist>

> > Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:50 PM

> > [GJ] Re: MY RIGHT TO SPEAK--my thoughts about your post --

> MD

> >

> >

> > > Robert:

> > >

> > > I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and

> Dina.

> > > Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

> > > anyone with physical harm. What Dina has stated appear to be

> > > statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

> > > Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges,

> etc.--

> > > If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt

> them.

> > > In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

> > >

> > > You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina

> with

> > > physical harm.

> > >

> > > Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this

> dispute.

> > > Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you

> however,

> > > should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

> > > Dina with physical harm.

> > >

> > > You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has

> the

> > > character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

> > > want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

> > > profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

> > > legal liability to the organization.

> > >

> > > I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally.

> I'm

> > > just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> > > this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> > > completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

> > >

> > > MD

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> > > > MY RIGHT TO SPEAK

> > > >

> > > > Now, all this week I have been sitting in my office in a

> Gandhian-

> > > like

> > > > silence, while a certain individual by the name of Dinanath das

> has

> > > had a

> > > > free run to drop the contents of his bowels on the Internet

> about

> > > me. I

> > > > don't know what he's been eating this week, but I can tell you

> here

> > > and

> > > > now, I will not sit here and eat the remnants of his lunch

> > > anymore. Now I

> > > > want to say something for myself, and all the persons who have

> been

> > > > maliciously and mercilessly slimed by this boy this week. This

> is

> > > > something a man has to do, apart from his Arudha (whatever it

> may

> > > be), so

> > > > pardon me if anybody feels this is too harsh, or you would

> rather

> > > me tell

> > > > you about Jyotish, or whatever. If you are not willing or

> ready to

> > > hear

> > > > this, then don't read from here on:

> > > >

> > > > TO DINANATH DAS

> > > >

> > > > You do not know me, have never met me, yet you have trashed my

> > > reputation

> > > > and name based on here-say, lies, and complete misinformation.

> > > You have

> > > > maligned good people, all spiritualists and Jyotish teachers;

> have

> > > trashed

> > > > your Jyotish guru, disgraced a lady on the Internet, committed

> > > fraud and

> > > > self-misrepresentation, hi-jacked a whole organization, stolen

> its

> > > web

> > > > site, and all the while sanctimoniously sitting on the throne of

> > > judgment

> > > > of others, setting yourself up as some kind of perfect holy man

> and

> > > the

> > > > emblem of truth. You have broken the hearts of my friends,

> > > clients, and

> > > > students. You have made my wife and my mother cry.

> > > >

> > > > Well this is my message for you: YOU ARE A WEASEL AND A COWARD.

> > > Come out

> > > > from behind your computer screen for one moment, and stop

> > > terrorizing

> > > > people whose sincerity bears itself out by its own example.

> Come

> > > and meet

> > > > with me. Here where I live near the Oregon mountains, there are

> > > lots of

> > > > meadows and open spaces where we can meet. Or, lets meet in a

> > > place of

> > > > your choosing, yet where its just you and me. Do this like a

> man,

> > > instead

> > > > of like a whiny little boy who couldn't get his way. Come and

> meet

> > > with

> > > > me, and TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK TO MY FACE, YOU SON OF A

> > > BITCH.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> > > > Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> > > > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> > > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> > > > Ph: 541.318.0248

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > > : gjlist-@e...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Your use of is subject to

>

> > >

> > >

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vatal,

 

Jaya Jagannatha.

 

Let me reply to your questions although I know that you know the asnwers but

for the benefit of others.

 

> 1. Who started this war on these public forums--either

> Vedic Astrology/gjlist

 

Robert Koch

 

> 2.People started on VA list saying "SJVC hacked?--and I know who are

> behind these". And Robert replied publicly saying that "Dinanath Das

> & Co were doing this etc".

 

Again Robert started this by accusing me that I hacked SJVC's web site.

 

> 3. SJVC founder Pandit Sanjay Rath in these either VA/SJVC groups

> asked for help regarding subscription fees for websites(sjvc.org etc)

> and he also mentioned that Dinanath/his sjvc office, was bearing

> these charges. Sanjay thus confirmed that legality of these sites and

> dinanath is legal owner of these sites. Why do we call this as

> hacking/hijacking. Of course, you people could have discussed on

> adminsTrivia lists rather than ranting on public forums saying

> dinanath hacked these sites.

 

Yes, I am legal owner of www.sjvcusa.org and that was clear from the

beginning but Robert decided that I am not and started blasting me on all

Jyotish forums. Before this we were discussing our differences on Achyuta

list on which is reserved for SJVC gurus only and discussion

was on private forum known to only few concerned Jyotish Gurus of SJVC.

 

> 4. Thus dina das defending himself publicly. Who is at fault. It is

> WHO, started on Vedic astrology saying "SJVC hacked". You people

> could have kept this privately in admin lists. Who exposed Dinanth to

> public.

 

I agree with you, this should've been kept in private like before where

concerned persons could discuss it. Robert started blaspheming me on all

Jyotish list that he could find. At the same time he removed me from

varahamihira lists and vedic astrology so I cannot defend myself and started

his war on gjlist. So it was Robert who started all this.

 

> 5.In my view, Jyotish become another profession to make money. Not

> for scholarship. How many on these lists are pursuing jyotish

> honestly for scholarship. None. No need to talk about charges, fees

> etc. It would be fine to put on sjvc site with various fees structure

> for different classes(yoga-s, introduction etc) like in US

> universities in terms of $100/some money per 1 quarter credit. In

> this way, one can start business. It is good :-)

 

Traditionally Jyotish and all Vedic sciences should be taught free. A

sincere sisyha should render service to his guru. In today's fast moving

world this may not be always possible, but it is a goal that we should

strive for.

 

Hare Krishna,

Dinanatha Das.

 

>

>

> Vatal Nagaraj.

>

>

> gjlist, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> > Robert:

> >

> > I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

> > Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

> > anyone with physical harm. What Dina has stated appear to be

> > statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

> > Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges,

> etc.--

> > If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt

> them.

> > In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

> >

> > You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

> > physical harm.

> >

> > Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this

> dispute.

> > Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you

> however,

> > should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

> > Dina with physical harm.

> >

> > You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has

> the

> > character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

> > want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

> > profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

> > legal liability to the organization.

> >

> > I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally.

> I'm

> > just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> > this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> > completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

> >

> > MD

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> > > MY RIGHT TO SPEAK

> > >

> > > Now, all this week I have been sitting in my office in a Gandhian-

> > like

> > > silence, while a certain individual by the name of Dinanath das

> has

> > had a

> > > free run to drop the contents of his bowels on the Internet about

> > me. I

> > > don't know what he's been eating this week, but I can tell you

> here

> > and

> > > now, I will not sit here and eat the remnants of his lunch

> > anymore. Now I

> > > want to say something for myself, and all the persons who have

> been

> > > maliciously and mercilessly slimed by this boy this week. This

> is

> > > something a man has to do, apart from his Arudha (whatever it may

> > be), so

> > > pardon me if anybody feels this is too harsh, or you would rather

> > me tell

> > > you about Jyotish, or whatever. If you are not willing or ready

> to

> > hear

> > > this, then don't read from here on:

> > >

> > > TO DINANATH DAS

> > >

> > > You do not know me, have never met me, yet you have trashed my

> > reputation

> > > and name based on here-say, lies, and complete misinformation.

> > You have

> > > maligned good people, all spiritualists and Jyotish teachers;

> have

> > trashed

> > > your Jyotish guru, disgraced a lady on the Internet, committed

> > fraud and

> > > self-misrepresentation, hi-jacked a whole organization, stolen

> its

> > web

> > > site, and all the while sanctimoniously sitting on the throne of

> > judgment

> > > of others, setting yourself up as some kind of perfect holy man

> and

> > the

> > > emblem of truth. You have broken the hearts of my friends,

> > clients, and

> > > students. You have made my wife and my mother cry.

> > >

> > > Well this is my message for you: YOU ARE A WEASEL AND A COWARD.

> > Come out

> > > from behind your computer screen for one moment, and stop

> > terrorizing

> > > people whose sincerity bears itself out by its own example.

> Come

> > and meet

> > > with me. Here where I live near the Oregon mountains, there are

> > lots of

> > > meadows and open spaces where we can meet. Or, lets meet in a

> > place of

> > > your choosing, yet where its just you and me. Do this like a

> man,

> > instead

> > > of like a whiny little boy who couldn't get his way. Come and

> meet

> > with

> > > me, and TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK TO MY FACE, YOU SON OF A

> > BITCH.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> > > Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> > > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> > > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> > > Ph: 541.318.0248

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mr. Goravani:

 

I just did give out info. about me and my background in an earlier

mail. Robyn had asked for the same information. I guess this answers

your question. And, I'm not Dina's crew. I don't know Dina or Robert

or Sanjay or yourself--the only association I have with you is I've

read your lessons posted on the web and the only association I have

with Sanjay is that I own one of his books.

 

MD

 

gjlist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

>

>

> I find that Dina and crew are using again, the act of being all

Mercurial,

> politically correct, Roman to a T, rhetoric, and not saying

anything either,

> nothing substantial. Please would anyone commenting here give their

full

> names and addresses, as I always do, please.

>

> Thank you.

>

> If you don't, then don't speak. No chickens in this assembly today.

This is

> for real people who can stand and be counted.

>

> Das Goravani

[Guest guest]

Dear Moderator,

I am not anybody's crew, as you claim. I knew that Jyotish is being

abused. Let it be. There is no need to talk about fees structures, or

somebody charging for teaching. I request Dinanath to stop talking

about mentoring charges, as it is common. Let me put wordly, SJVC

claims free mentoring on its website -- it is not the case in reality,

as I notice from these discussing.

 

Vedic astrology = another way to make money..Let it be in that state.

Dont equate this to any traditional veda stuff. Thus, we dont have any

problems.

 

To Dinanath: Anyway, you defended yourself. No need to extend this

conversation about who is vedic practioner or not. Just keep low about

the axiom: vedic astrology is sacred and free--Make it as another

mental therapy, $100 per hour. I know how these vedic astrologers and

their students operate. There is a vedic astrologer Mr X. He is

mentoring another student Mr Y ($100/hr). In mean time, Mr Y mentoring

another set of students($50/hour/student). Cyclic business. No need to

complain about this. It is common practice among ours in United

States. Somebody accusing Dinanath about his usage of email addy

gjlist (at) sjvcusa.org-- What is wrong with it. I have another email

addy karl_marx2000. Does it mean that I hacked karl_marx

website. What nonsense is this. Just picking him on something.

 

 

Address:

My name is Vatal Nagaraj, lives in Irvine, California.

Drop me a line, if you want a personal addy in private.

 

 

Vatal Nagaraj

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gjlist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

>

>

> I find that Dina and crew are using again, the act of being all

Mercurial,

> politically correct, Roman to a T, rhetoric, and not saying anything

either,

> nothing substantial. Please would anyone commenting here give their

full

> names and addresses, as I always do, please.

>

> Thank you.

>

> If you don't, then don't speak. No chickens in this assembly today.

This is

> for real people who can stand and be counted.

>

> Das Goravani