An Open Invite and Request to Continue Debate Offline...

[Guest guest]

Martin, All,

 

As I said in my last response to Martin (Patriotism,

Sep 11 and Martin Michaels), I think it best that we

continue this colloquiy offline. Dasji has set this

list up the express purpose of discussing Vedic

Astrology, and I don't want to compromise that

proposition; nor do I want to see him come on and

state any of this. The topic, while most important,

has morphed a bit into something that in my view,

strays a bit from Dasji's list objective.

 

Additionally, my current emailbox is full - almost

always is - and so I would enjoin all those so

inclined to please send emails on this subject to:

jedimu2001. That box is nowhere near as full

as this one, and I'll be able to receive all emails.

I'll forward Martin's and anyone else's emails to that

addy and address them from there. Again, anyone

wishing to join in is most welcome.

 

Lastly, Martin, in his most recent to the thread, said

his wife suggested that I was fearful of losing the

debate, hence my "real" reason for wanting to take it

offline. Nothing could be further from the truth, and

anyone that knows me knows this. I can see that the

fruit does not fall far from the tree. Ridiculous.

 

While Martin contends that I have not offered anything

substantive and he has by contrast, in fact, it is HE

that has engaged in hyperbole, op/ed and speculation,

all the while trying to adopt a superior attitude. I

have not seen Martin refute, with any evidence to the

contrary, any of my assertions. Perhaps he will in the

offline debate. If I knew you were coming to the

table, Martin, I'd have baked a cake.

 

See all of you offline.

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western and Vedic Astrologer

mumin_bey

AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu

2Way Pager: 1-877-345-6499/8773456499; Cell phone:

267-978-2812

Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives!

Just send a blank email to panastroforum-

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

On the contrary, I have quoted (corrected) historical assertions

made by both you and Curtis. I understand about the mailbox issue

though - I will set up a list on and let you all know where

it will be. It probably won't be done before later this afternoon

though, so please bear with me.

 

I really do enjoy the debates, Mu. And I think, honestly, were we

to meet, face to face, we might be friends. Unitl later then...

 

Best to all,

Martin

 

 

Mu'Min Bey [mumin_bey]

Monday, September 30, 2002 11:17 AM

gjlist

Cc: jedimu2001

[GJ] An Open Invite and Request to Continue Debate Offline...

 

 

Martin, All,

 

As I said in my last response to Martin (Patriotism,

Sep 11 and Martin Michaels), I think it best that we

continue this colloquiy offline. Dasji has set this

list up the express purpose of discussing Vedic

Astrology, and I don't want to compromise that

proposition; nor do I want to see him come on and

state any of this. The topic, while most important,

has morphed a bit into something that in my view,

strays a bit from Dasji's list objective.

 

Additionally, my current emailbox is full - almost

always is - and so I would enjoin all those so

inclined to please send emails on this subject to:

jedimu2001. That box is nowhere near as full

as this one, and I'll be able to receive all emails.

I'll forward Martin's and anyone else's emails to that

addy and address them from there. Again, anyone

wishing to join in is most welcome.

 

Lastly, Martin, in his most recent to the thread, said

his wife suggested that I was fearful of losing the

debate, hence my "real" reason for wanting to take it

offline. Nothing could be further from the truth, and

anyone that knows me knows this. I can see that the

fruit does not fall far from the tree. Ridiculous.

 

While Martin contends that I have not offered anything

substantive and he has by contrast, in fact, it is HE

that has engaged in hyperbole, op/ed and speculation,

all the while trying to adopt a superior attitude. I

have not seen Martin refute, with any evidence to the

contrary, any of my assertions. Perhaps he will in the

offline debate. If I knew you were coming to the

table, Martin, I'd have baked a cake.

 

See all of you offline.

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western and Vedic Astrologer

mumin_bey

AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu

2Way Pager: 1-877-345-6499/8773456499; Cell phone:

267-978-2812

Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought

Lives! Just send a blank email to panastroforum-

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Include me in witnessing the debate. I find it interesting.

 

Renee

 

>>> mumin_bey 09/30/02 09:16AM >>>

Martin, All,

 

As I said in my last response to Martin (Patriotism,

Sep 11 and Martin Michaels), I think it best that we

continue this colloquiy offline. Dasji has set this

list up the express purpose of discussing Vedic

Astrology, and I don't want to compromise that

proposition; nor do I want to see him come on and

state any of this. The topic, while most important,

has morphed a bit into something that in my view,

strays a bit from Dasji's list objective.

 

Additionally, my current emailbox is full - almost

always is - and so I would enjoin all those so

inclined to please send emails on this subject to:

jedimu2001. That box is nowhere near as full

as this one, and I'll be able to receive all emails.

I'll forward Martin's and anyone else's emails to that

addy and address them from there. Again, anyone

wishing to join in is most welcome.

 

Lastly, Martin, in his most recent to the thread, said

his wife suggested that I was fearful of losing the

debate, hence my "real" reason for wanting to take it

offline. Nothing could be further from the truth, and

anyone that knows me knows this. I can see that the

fruit does not fall far from the tree. Ridiculous.

 

While Martin contends that I have not offered anything

substantive and he has by contrast, in fact, it is HE

that has engaged in hyperbole, op/ed and speculation,

all the while trying to adopt a superior attitude. I

have not seen Martin refute, with any evidence to the

contrary, any of my assertions. Perhaps he will in the

offline debate. If I knew you were coming to the

table, Martin, I'd have baked a cake.

 

See all of you offline.

 

Salaam,

Mu

 

=====

Mu'Min M. Bey

Western and Vedic Astrologer

mumin_bey

AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu

2Way Pager: 1-877-345-6499/8773456499; Cell phone:

267-978-2812

Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives!

Just send a blank email to panastroforum-

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Mu,

 

I was really starting to think that by the previous emails, where no-one

actually attacked anyone, that maybe politics could be discussed between

grown-ups. Yes there was a great deal of disagreement within the discussions,

but it was civil. That was until your previous email (Patriotism, Sep 11 and

Martin Michaels) which was obviously directed solely as an attack at Martin. It

was full of attack, innuendo, and so much self righteousness that you are the

one that seems to be very racial.

 

Then in the same letter of attack you want to take this matter off list. Now I

can understand taking the discussion off list, but to request such in the same

letter as one full of such content, well it does seem to read questionable on

what really is the true reason - can be read either way. It is like you are

expressing that you are allowed to initiate and attack Martin in front of people

who have been watching a healthy public debate, but then requesting that you not

be put through the same, please do it in private. This may not be the case, but

it can and is read that way.

 

Do you think that Martin is the only one of the list that has served their

country and had wondered as to who else within the discussion had military

experience? I have served - and within Intelligence - so I also wondered if a

lot of the comments that people were making were from those that actually had

inside knowledge and experience as to what really can and does go on as opposed

to what is actually released to the media for the publics sake.

 

Now, before you go off at me for my next comment, please understand that I have

black heritage. Your email had stated that "Your People have done more than

ANYONE else to defend what this country obstensibly stands for, often times,

when this country could not, and more-often-than-not, WOULD NOT, defend us...I

don't feel I have anything to prove to you, or anyone else." Yes, the African

Americans have lived through the humility and indignity of slavery, yes they

have fought, defended, and died for this country, yes they have been treated

insufferably, murdered, raped, and I could go on and on and on. At least here

it is in the past. But it is people like you that cannot leave it there. How

do you expect people to work at trying to live together in peace, when there are

so many like you that cannot leave the past where it belongs. You cannot expect

people to pay for what their ancestors have done. If that were so then why are

we still not irate with Julius Caesar? Attila The Hun? And many others from the

past thousands of years of world hostilities?

 

African Americans have come a very long way. And you should be proud of that.

African Americans really have more rights than do any other breed of Americans

now. And yet some of you still are not happy. When are you going to let the

past stay where it belongs. Maybe you should look at other countries and how

the whites are treating their blacks. Then you may see how lucky the African

American really is here. Have you ever even considered the blacks in other

countries? Maybe you should start with the Aborigines in Australia. How many

African American complete societies (not just families) were rounded up and then

ran off a cliff? And the "deaths in custody" issues - yes America has problems

with the safety and care of blacks in custody - but it is nothing compared to

the ratio in Australia. The racial discrimination laws - well I think if you

gave the Australian Aborigines a ride to the USA and told them how the black

were treated here - I think you would find most of them not even waiting for the

ride. Australia's problems are not in the past as it is here where it could be

and should be - they are still struggling.

 

I have great respect for those that help guide their people to a better life and

are proud to stand up and say "Look how far we have come", but little for those

that wallow in the tragedies of the generations past and that tend to blame and

carry their current lives misgivings or lackings, because of it.

 

Mu, your daddy and your granddaddy may have served and had a hell of a time by

the racism of their times, but that is exactly that - their times. And what is

time? Is it not a continuum in which things can and do change? They do not

serve now so they cannot tell you what it is like to serve now. Military units

have been around for thousands of years. It is a harsh reality. Because we are

all human and there will always be conflict. To say that a father fought so

that a son wouldn't have to, is how all those who serve and have served feel -

we serve to protect our land, people and country. But to sit back and take it

literally and say that I don't have to because my daddy did it for me, and then

pass judgement on those that have personally served for their views based on

military experience, that is sheer arrogance.

 

Yes, as one who has a black heritage, who has served for their country, has lost

family/loved ones to government bureaucracy, who has travelled and lived in and

experienced other countries, I too rightfully have my own views on life and what

it means to be human.

 

I am feeling rather protective right now, such strong impulses for a woman. My

chart must be very interesting at the moment.

 

For such a social species, we sure do live too many times in a disorder of hate.

Is this really what was planned for us, or have we messed it up horribly.

 

Harmony in Life,

Tracy

 

 

-

 

> Martin, All,

>

> As I said in my last response to Martin (Patriotism,

> Sep 11 and Martin Michaels), I think it best that we

> continue this colloquiy offline. Dasji has set this

> list up the express purpose of discussing Vedic

> Astrology, and I don't want to compromise that

> proposition; nor do I want to see him come on and

> state any of this. The topic, while most important,

> has morphed a bit into something that in my view,

> strays a bit from Dasji's list objective.

>

> Additionally, my current emailbox is full - almost

> always is - and so I would enjoin all those so

> inclined to please send emails on this subject to:

> jedimu2001. That box is nowhere near as full

> as this one, and I'll be able to receive all emails.

> I'll forward Martin's and anyone else's emails to that

> addy and address them from there. Again, anyone

> wishing to join in is most welcome.

>

> Lastly, Martin, in his most recent to the thread, said

> his wife suggested that I was fearful of losing the

> debate, hence my "real" reason for wanting to take it

> offline. Nothing could be further from the truth, and

> anyone that knows me knows this. I can see that the

> fruit does not fall far from the tree. Ridiculous.

>

> While Martin contends that I have not offered anything

> substantive and he has by contrast, in fact, it is HE

> that has engaged in hyperbole, op/ed and speculation,

> all the while trying to adopt a superior attitude. I

> have not seen Martin refute, with any evidence to the

> contrary, any of my assertions. Perhaps he will in the

> offline debate. If I knew you were coming to the

> table, Martin, I'd have baked a cake.

>

> See all of you offline.

>

> Salaam,

> Mu

>

>