Saddam Hussein GWB

September 22, 2002

Dear Nicholas, which chart do you use for Iraq? I've toyed with several

including the one when SH took power in a coupe de ta.

As I said before I really don't like Hussein's Moon hemmed in between Rahu in

Jyeshta and Mars in Anuradha where the Moon is also.the Jupiter station in late

November early December might help him but it does not look good. Pluto is

transiting Rahu in fact it makes its final pass soon, it stationed at 21

Scorpio for the 3rd time. I consider SH's chart to be a kala sarpa so the

transits to the nodes are very important as is an eclipse trigger. They seem

to be more important for KSY than for the average chart.

Speaking of KSY there is ol' W the last eclipse hit his nodal axis, on Rahu to

be exact in the house of groups and he has had a lot of trouble with groups.

The question about communication is a little complicated to answer. Mercury

close to Pluto can often give cutting or abrupt words that are insightful...a

sort of xray vision when you need it. Mars in the 2nd give impulsive speech.

Someone studying with David Frawley told me that David looks to the 5th house

to see if a person is a liar. Here we have Ketu in Jyeshta (betrayal) and

disposited by Mars in the 2nd. Looking at this chart I suspect that he is a

man who believes in what he is doing, Ketu in the 5th feels he is called to do

what he is doing, and as far as I can tell is indeed called in someway. I also

find that KSY can be swept into things. Now this is certainly not the case for

all, but I've got a number of clients with this placement and they struggle to

see what is around them. They can become very exuberant and certainty the Moon

Jupiter is that. This then leads them to grasp an idea or viewpoint tightly but

are also willing to let it go when they are shown another way. This is why I

believe that he is indeed influenced by his wife, they seem quite the team and

I have never heard an ill word spoken about her or her work. The question then

becomes how is he influenced by his team, I would say with this chart very

influenced.

I hope others will jump in even if you can show me I'm wrong. Please, show me

where you believe I'm wrong and why.

cynthia

-

Nicholas

gjlist

Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:39 PM

[GJ] Saddam Hussein

Dear Cynthia

Thanks for getting some astro dialogue going .

I'll use 8.55 A. M for consistency .

Regardless of which time Mars MD will soon be operating indicating 6th house type events .

He has just gone through a Rahu return so it is no wonder he is having a stressful year .

I have found that Venus retrograde is not good for relationships and that in

women's cases it is associated with frigidity .

With Moon Mars and Rahu in the 6th in Scorpio you have in Saddam a man obsessed

with anger at his enemies .

I haven't done enough work on eclipses to comment on what the effect of the

upcoming one will be on Saddam but the last one also fell on sensitive points

in the Iraq chart .

I made a prediction a while ago that Iraq as it is would collapse based on the

Iraqi chart within a year of the midyear(2002) eclipse .

Cheers

Nicholas

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:53 AM

Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

I have 8:55am, supposedly given by his mother. There is another time of 10:30

that another astrologer told me she uses...a western astrologer. I have date

of birth April 28, 1957 8:55am Tikrit Iraq. This shows Mars MD begins on

October 12th or 15th.

He has been Moon Sun period. Notice Moon with Rahu and MArs in the 6th and Moon

lord of maraka 2nd. Sun lord of the 3rd.

Did you know that Mars had just passed over the Moon, Rahu and Mars a few weeks

before the nerve gas was released upon the Kurds? I really am concerned about

the mans perceptions with this chart. Does not seem to be any compassion or

even reflection. I know that age changes things, but I've heard that he has

two sons that are even more brutal. Here Venus is lord of the 5th, retrograde

but exalted in Pisces at 28 degrees. I've seen these Venus's be very

compassionate or very detached from others. I've seen the retrograde Venus

indicate a person who cannot feel love, or rather struggles tofeel love or to

get enough love. It can be overcome, but this retrograde seems to be pretty

problematic without a lot of spiritual worked as well as relationship work to

understand that others need love too.

If your time is correct that moon is even closer to Rahu and so to the eclipse

on Dec. 4th. Any ideas what that eclipse might bring?

The eclipse path is across Australia and the southern part of Africa. Still, I

find it interesting that he invade Kuwait on an eclipse and we began bombing

Iraq on an eclipse.

please, all join the discussion.

c

-

Nicholas

gjlist

Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:13 PM

Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Dear Cynthia

What time do you use for Saddam ?

I use 9.30 AM giving a 19 degree Gemini rising chart thinking that Ardra

Nakshata fitted .That would have him running Mars Mars since May 2002 and

explains the current dispute .

Kind regards

Nicholas

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:32 AM

Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits of SH and GWB? The

one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon hemmed in between Rahu and

Mars retrograde. This was transited by Mars just before Iraq began attacking

the Kurds. If anyone caught the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS,

there is substantial evidence that he and his administration were well aware of

the destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that would

follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations.

Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and stationed on these

placements in SH's chart through the summer of 2001? Did you notice the

eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did you notice that Mars again crosses

them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I

posted before was given verbally by his mother when she was talking about her

son's birth. There is another time floating abound of 10:30am.

Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this astrologically? What about the

kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or

concept and have trouble releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV

news and turned to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with

little content.

The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too late. That is a delicate

tight rope to walk, either way you fall to the ground.

To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do you see that in his

chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious that he relies upon her

insights, it is also that he really loves his daughters. THis might have

something to do with his passion. He does seem to treat women well according

to flight attendants who have served him and the obvious attachment to his

long-time aide. Do you think some of this might be a desire for women's rights

where there are few?

Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological discussion.

c

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM

Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Jesse

Never mind, I found it.

c

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM

Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Dear Jesee

What is the source of this? I'd like to know more.

c

-

Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com

gjlist

Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM

[GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow,

incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my

reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found

quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican

Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the

House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings

on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that

won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some

questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1.

Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of

the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true

that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate --

which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those

who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be

hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons

exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's

International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification

mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that

the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to

global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year?

Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and

that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent

Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of

Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there

is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi

intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the

administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our

"allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda

leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another

of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly

sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily

occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all

accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where

it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence

resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and

who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries

that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just

confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what

bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy

or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even

then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the

constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should

presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when

pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for

permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying

charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which

found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the

very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more

likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between

100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome

from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared

for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that

does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to

bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil

prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American

economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have

deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of

UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true

that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without

penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as

the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new

attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it

not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by

Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United

Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform

to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine

our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can

our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up

dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf

in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you

familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly

supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and

as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish

village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting

and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now

for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it

not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has

never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil

company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we

plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and

are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more

anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for

attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not

if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war

for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against

Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly

400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of

regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the

less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since

World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have

not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan,

especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key

organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal

declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate

Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

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is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

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is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

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is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

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is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare

Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to the

September 22, 2002

Interesting discussion you have initiated cynthia. and I have felt

from GWBs chart there is much more to the man that seems to be

popularly accepted so I was interested to see that perhaps I am not

alone in that opinion. The charts of those involved in current world

dramas are indeed interesting.

I feel theres a strong destiny element in the chart of GWB----. for a

whole host of factor including, the combination of Saturn Mercury and

Venus in Lagna which manage to be the dharma lords from both Sun and

Moon. well placed from Sun and Moon. Pluto will definately give

intensity. and the sign placement is one of patriotism. ie cancer.

The Navamsa, Dasamsa and Drekkana charts are some quite interesting

features which suggest destiny at work. This combination of dharma

lords unafflicted by aspects from enemy planets and incidentally

placed in their own Nakshatras (saturn Mercury) or friends (venus)

makes an unusual chart. Jupiter Sun moon mars are friendly to each

other. Saturn Mercury Venus are the other group of friends. So the

parivatana yoga (and saturn aspect to Moon jupiter) between the lord

of the sun and moon mercury with the lord of lagna moon links the two

groups. I feel the combination of dharma lords (from Sun and Moon) is

a strong indication of GWBs spirituality and has a lot to do with his

destiny. the rajayoga in the 10th house in navamsa is quite powerful

and mars saturn jupiter there is all about war.

The 12th house Sun accounts for the digression with public

perception, or you might say the moon neptune combo....

In many ways one of the things it made me think of was that we tend

to be more impressed by the manner in which a person speaks rather

than the message they are delivering. The Mars in 2nd will give

bluntness, simplicity. Mars is not a complicated planet. 2nd lord in

12th Sun. Spiritual side to speech.

GWB has been remarkably frank in his speech and not given to

embellishment in complexities. Which has been universally ridiculed.

But his 2nd lord Sun is exalted in Namamsa. So is the 2nd lord from

Moon Venus.

In terms of Saddam and eclipses. two weeks prior to US announcment to

go after Saddam Lunar eclipse hit at 11 scorpio- may 26 2002. smack

on saddams mars and close to moon. = violence possible assassination.

shortly afterwards GWB. from memory in a few months his ascendant

lord mercury will be hit by eclipse..

-----interestingly at the time of GWBs speech to UN moon was on the

lunar eclipse point that hit saddams mars ie 11 scorpio... nice

statement that....

using 5.15pm time for usa 4th july etc. varshaphala for this year for

GWB and USA is remarkably similar with Mars Jupiter in 10th house.

Not to mention Mars Saturn Rahu in 10th of Chaitra Shukla for

Washington location for 2002. All indicate war.

moon was conjunct neptune and mercury had just gone retrograde in

trine to neptune when saddam announced he would accept UN going into

Baghdad... So immiediately discrediting him was accurate response.

expect more flip flops in next month

The full moon on the 21st september over Baghdad gives aquarius asc

with Pluto and MC both at 21 scorpio with mars closing at 20 Leo. the

neptune jupiter venus in close squares and saturn in square to full

moon shows the complexities of the current situation. deception

diplomacy confusion not to mention obstacles with saturn.

Saddams chart is pretty nasty. As you say the Moon hemmed in between

Mars and Rahu opposing asc lord mercury in 12th suggests pretty

warped mentality. No benefic aspects to planets ruling mentality at

all. unless you count debiliated Jupiter in 8th - asura yoga (how

apt) ie 4th and 5th houses and lords all malefically placed. both

moon and mercury in dusthanas with debiltated nodes and mars. Scorpio

moon. Venus with saturn in 10 is giving him the power he has

saturn in 8th transit to Saddams moon is a troublesome period for

him. luckily. and its on his ascendant.

Mars dasa...... which would tend to increase his aggressiveness and

ruthless streak. It afflicts Mercury and Moon. Moon is significator

of the masses, and 4th lord mercury rules people. Holocausts are 4th

and 12th lord - see 4th lord in 12th mercury afflicted... So Saddam

is more than capable of mass murder. Even Sun conjunct Uranus in

Aries will make him full of himself and not likely to listen to

anyone. He respects freedom only for himself. Viewed in combination

with such a terrible situation with Moon and Mercury you see a

confident person with no religion (jupiter) in power. (sun exalted

and venus saturn rajayoga in 10th) but pure evil and hatred of

people. (moon jupiter mercury afflictions)

using 8.55time Saddams varshapal looks worse in a 1 or 2 years in

terms of what he will do... I cant recall offhand. but I looked and I

felt GWB was right to be concerned about what he WILL get up to.

Its better just to be rid of Saddam. eclipse on GWBs exalted Rahu

near Uranus... possible sudden and unexpected developments...

The US war plans suggested seem to be looking for a way to remove

Saddam with as little damage as possible. They are expecting that

Saddams troops may NOT actually fight and are looking for loop holes

so they do not fight them if possible. Minimum disruption to Iraqis.

After all we would hate to have to live in a regime where you could

get murdered for saying the wrong thing

I would not be surprised at some innovative or surprising military

strategies in this regard by the US. Saddam will get a full

opportunity to let inspectors in and avoid this but he wont take it.

And the US will go in. GWBs 'go it alone' stance is in his varshaphal

(moon saturn in 8th) but its NOT in the USA varshaphal.... Whether

that means its just a stance and they wont do it alone......mmmm.

Its a very interesting drama unfolding. A lot more will come out

about wat Saddam has been up to gradually.. So I found your posts

discussing this interesting.

Dawn W.

gjlist, "cynthia novak" <cynthianovak@s...> wrote:

> Dear Nicholas, which chart do you use for Iraq? I've toyed with

several including the one when SH took power in a coupe de ta.

>

> As I said before I really don't like Hussein's Moon hemmed in

between Rahu in Jyeshta and Mars in Anuradha where the Moon is

also.the Jupiter station in late November early December might help

him but it does not look good. Pluto is transiting Rahu in fact it

makes its final pass soon, it stationed at 21 Scorpio for the 3rd

time. I consider SH's chart to be a kala sarpa so the transits to

the nodes are very important as is an eclipse trigger. They seem to

be more important for KSY than for the average chart.

>

> Speaking of KSY there is ol' W the last eclipse hit his nodal axis,

on Rahu to be exact in the house of groups and he has had a lot of

trouble with groups. The question about communication is a little

complicated to answer. Mercury close to Pluto can often give cutting

or abrupt words that are insightful...a sort of xray vision when you

need it. Mars in the 2nd give impulsive speech. Someone studying

with David Frawley told me that David looks to the 5th house to see

if a person is a liar. Here we have Ketu in Jyeshta (betrayal) and

disposited by Mars in the 2nd. Looking at this chart I suspect that

he is a man who believes in what he is doing, Ketu in the 5th feels

he is called to do what he is doing, and as far as I can tell is

indeed called in someway. I also find that KSY can be swept into

things. Now this is certainly not the case for all, but I've got a

number of clients with this placement and they struggle to see what

is around them. They can become very exuberant and certainty the

Moon Jupiter is that. This then leads them to grasp an idea or

viewpoint tightly but are also willing to let it go when they are

shown another way. This is why I believe that he is indeed

influenced by his wife, they seem quite the team and I have never

heard an ill word spoken about her or her work. The question then

becomes how is he influenced by his team, I would say with this chart

very influenced.

>

> I hope others will jump in even if you can show me I'm wrong.

Please, show me where you believe I'm wrong and why.

>

> cynthia

> -

> Nicholas

> gjlist

> Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:39 PM

> [GJ] Saddam Hussein

>

> Dear Cynthia

> Thanks for getting some astro dialogue going .

> I'll use 8.55 A. M for consistency .

> Regardless of which time Mars MD will soon be operating

indicating 6th house type events .

> He has just gone through a Rahu return so it is no wonder he is

having a stressful year .

> I have found that Venus retrograde is not good for relationships

and that in women's cases it is associated with frigidity .

> With Moon Mars and Rahu in the 6th in Scorpio you have in Saddam

a man obsessed with anger at his enemies .

> I haven't done enough work on eclipses to comment on what the

effect of the upcoming one will be on Saddam but the last one also

fell on sensitive points in the Iraq chart .

> I made a prediction a while ago that Iraq as it is would collapse

based on the Iraqi chart within a year of the midyear(2002) eclipse .

> Cheers

> Nicholas

> -

> cynthia novak

> gjlist

> Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:53 AM

> Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> I have 8:55am, supposedly given by his mother. There is

another time of 10:30 that another astrologer told me she uses...a

western astrologer. I have date of birth April 28, 1957 8:55am

Tikrit Iraq. This shows Mars MD begins on October 12th or 15th.

>

> He has been Moon Sun period. Notice Moon with Rahu and MArs in

the 6th and Moon lord of maraka 2nd. Sun lord of the 3rd.

>

> Did you know that Mars had just passed over the Moon, Rahu and

Mars a few weeks before the nerve gas was released upon the Kurds? I

really am concerned about the mans perceptions with this chart. Does

not seem to be any compassion or even reflection. I know that age

changes things, but I've heard that he has two sons that are even

more brutal. Here Venus is lord of the 5th, retrograde but exalted in

Pisces at 28 degrees. I've seen these Venus's be very compassionate

or very detached from others. I've seen the retrograde Venus

indicate a person who cannot feel love, or rather struggles tofeel

love or to get enough love. It can be overcome, but this retrograde

seems to be pretty problematic without a lot of spiritual worked as

well as relationship work to understand that others need love too.

>

> If your time is correct that moon is even closer to Rahu and so

to the eclipse on Dec. 4th. Any ideas what that eclipse might bring?

>

> The eclipse path is across Australia and the southern part of

Africa. Still, I find it interesting that he invade Kuwait on an

eclipse and we began bombing Iraq on an eclipse.

>

> please, all join the discussion.

>

> c

>

> -

> Nicholas

> gjlist

> Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:13 PM

> Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Dear Cynthia

> What time do you use for Saddam ?

> I use 9.30 AM giving a 19 degree Gemini rising chart thinking

that Ardra Nakshata fitted .That would have him running Mars Mars

since May 2002 and explains the current dispute .

> Kind regards

> Nicholas

> -

> cynthia novak

> gjlist

> Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:32 AM

> Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits

of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon

hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by

Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught

the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial

evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the

destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that

would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations.

>

> Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and

stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of

2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did

you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to

speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given

verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth.

There is another time floating abound of 10:30am.

>

> Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this

astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me

it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble

releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned

to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little

content.

>

> The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too

late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to

the ground.

>

> To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do

you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious

that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his

daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He

does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have

served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you

think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there

are few?

>

> Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological

discussion.

> c

>

> -

> cynthia novak

> gjlist

> Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM

> Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Jesse

> Never mind, I found it.

> c

>

> -

> cynthia novak

> gjlist

> Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM

> Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Dear Jesee

> What is the source of this? I'd like to know more.

> c

>

> -

> Jiabbot@c...

> gjlist

> Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM

> [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Dear friends on the list,

>

> I know there are some on GJ List who somehow,

incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond

my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email,

which I found quite on the mark.

>

> Best,

>

> Jesse Abbot

>

> >Re: Fwd: War in Iraq

> >

> >Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican

member of Congress from

> >Texas.

> >

> >In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:

> >

> >"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war

with Iraq. I am concerned

> >there are some questions that won't be asked -- and

maybe will not even be

> >allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would

like answered by

> >those who are urging us to start this war.

> >1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb

the Soviet Union at the

> >height of the Cold War was because we knew they

could retaliate?

> >2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb

Iraq now because we

>

> >know

> >it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that

there is no real threat?

> >3. Is it not true that those who argue that even

with inspections we

> >cannot

> >be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the

same time imply that

> >we can be more sure that weapons exist in the

absence of inspections?

> >4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic

Energy Agency was

> >able

> >to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq

just this year with

> >Iraqi cooperation?

> >5. Is it not true that the intelligence community

has been unable to

> >develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at

all, much less the

> >attacks

> >on the United States last year? Does anyone remember

that 15 of the 19

> >hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came

from Iraq?

> >6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent

Cannistraro wrong when

> >he

> >recently said there is no confirmed evidence of

Iraq's links to terrorism?

> >7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there

is no evidence that a

> >Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi

intelligence took

> >place?

> >

> >8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the

administration claimed

> >al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of

our "allies," the Kurds?

> >9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda

leaders who escaped

> >appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan,

another of our so-called

> >allies?

> >10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly

sinking into total

> >chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming

daily occurrences; and

> >that according to a recent UN report the al-

Qaeda "is, by all accounts,

> >alive and well and poised to strike again, how,

when, and where it

> >chooses."

> >

> >11. Why are we taking precious military and

intelligence resources away

> >from tracking down those who did attack the United

States -- and who may

> >again attack the United States -- and using them to

in

> vade countries that

> >have not attacked the United States?

> >12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the

Arab world's worst

> >suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin

Laden wanted?

> >13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he

has no navy or air

> >force,

> >and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years

ago, which even then

> >proved totally inept at defending the country?

> >14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to

declare war is

> >exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents,

contrary to the

> >Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when

pressured by public

> >opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN

for permission to go

> >to

> >war?

> >15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying

charges that thousands of

> >Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis,

which found no conclusive

> >evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran

occupied the very city

> >involved, and that evidence indicate

> d the type of gas used was more likely

> >controlled by Iran not Iraq?

> >16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and

300,000 US soldiers

> >have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from

the first Gulf War, and

> >that thousands may have died?

> >17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of

American casualties in a war

> >against a country that does not have the capacity to

attack the United

> >States?

> >18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a

100 billion dollar war

> >against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket

and further rattle an

> >already shaky American economy? How about an

estimated 30 years occupation

> >of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build

democracy" there?

> >19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are

given as reason to

> >initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds

of UN Resolutions

> >have

> >been ignored by various countries without penalty?

> >20. Did former President Bush not cit

> e the UN Resolution of 1990 as the

> >reason he could not march into Baghdad, while

supporters of a new attack

> >assert that it is the very reason we can march into

Baghdad?

> >21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims,

the no-fly zones were

> >set up by Britain and the United States without

specific approval from the

> >United Nations?

> >22. If we claim membership in the international

community and conform to

> >its rules only when it pleases us, does this not

serve to undermine our

> >position, directing animosity toward us by both

friend and foe?

> >23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy

to Iraq be believable

> >when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East

and support military

> >tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a

democratically-elected

> >president?

> >24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings

that revealed the U.S.

> >knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials

to Iraq during the

> >Iran-Ir

> aq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the

alleged Iraqi gas

> >attack on a Kurdish village?

> >25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power

by supporting and

> >encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to

criticize Saddam now for

> >his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively

supported?

> >26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous

with an act of

> >aggression, and has never been considered a moral or

legitimate US policy?

> >27. Why do the oil company executives strongly

support this war if oil is

> >not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

> >28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform

and are confident that

> >they won't have to personally fight this war are

more anxious for this war

> >than our generals?

> >29. What is the moral argument for attacking a

nation that has not

> >initiated aggression against us, and could not if it

wanted?

> >30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission

to wage war for a

> ny

> >reason other than self-defense?

> >31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects

the sentiments of the

> >time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years

ago, that countries

> >should never go into another for the purpose of

regime change?

> >32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society

is, the less likely

> >disagreements will be settled by war?

> >33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress

has not declared war

> >and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then

had a clear-cut

> >victory?

> >

> >34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through

its intelligence

> >services, was an active supporter and key organizer

of the Taliban?

> >35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal

declaration of war

> >resolution to the floor of Congress?

> >--

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

@e...

>

Terms of Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

@e...

>

Terms of Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-@e...

>

> Terms

of Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-@e...

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-@e...

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-@e...

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-@e...

>

> Terms of

Service.

September 22, 2002

Dear Dawn

Thank you for taking the time to go to such detail here. Your post is

thoughtful and well described. I do not use the varshaphal, but am hoping

to learn. I have wondered if the current administration might have a Vedic

astrologer on the payroll, or at least one to help them determine what SH

might do and when. I'm very concerned about what he might do in Jan and

Feb. and the current administration seems intent on stopping him before

this.

Did you happen to notice on the 4th of July that SH's stepson was said to be

picked up at an airport in the US? Supposedly this step-son who lives in

New Zealand was here to take flight training school. He was held for 2weeks

then released to return to NZ.

There is something suspicious about this story. I suspect that his step son

is helping the US in some way, We know that SH killed a son-in-law when he

talked then returned to Iraq. Looking as Hussein's chart, we see possible

surprises from the 5th from the 7th, the child of his spouse.

Notice that the Sun lord of the 3rd and Uranus the planet of surprises and

revolution are there. Mars is lord and there is not much left to say about

that Mars.

thank you for the discussion, all are welcome

cynthia

-

"Dream Kindler" <astrodawnau

Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:15 PM

Re: [GJ] Saddam Hussein GWB

> Interesting discussion you have initiated cynthia. and I have felt

> from GWBs chart there is much more to the man that seems to be

> popularly accepted so I was interested to see that perhaps I am not

> alone in that opinion. The charts of those involved in current world

> dramas are indeed interesting.

>

> I feel theres a strong destiny element in the chart of GWB----. for a

> whole host of factor including, the combination of Saturn Mercury and

> Venus in Lagna which manage to be the dharma lords from both Sun and

> Moon. well placed from Sun and Moon. Pluto will definately give

> intensity. and the sign placement is one of patriotism. ie cancer.

> The Navamsa, Dasamsa and Drekkana charts are some quite interesting

> features which suggest destiny at work. This combination of dharma

> lords unafflicted by aspects from enemy planets and incidentally

> placed in their own Nakshatras (saturn Mercury) or friends (venus)

> makes an unusual chart. Jupiter Sun moon mars are friendly to each

> other. Saturn Mercury Venus are the other group of friends. So the

> parivatana yoga (and saturn aspect to Moon jupiter) between the lord

> of the sun and moon mercury with the lord of lagna moon links the two

> groups. I feel the combination of dharma lords (from Sun and Moon) is

> a strong indication of GWBs spirituality and has a lot to do with his

> destiny. the rajayoga in the 10th house in navamsa is quite powerful

> and mars saturn jupiter there is all about war.

>

> The 12th house Sun accounts for the digression with public

> perception, or you might say the moon neptune combo....

>

> In many ways one of the things it made me think of was that we tend

> to be more impressed by the manner in which a person speaks rather

> than the message they are delivering. The Mars in 2nd will give

> bluntness, simplicity. Mars is not a complicated planet. 2nd lord in

> 12th Sun. Spiritual side to speech.

>

> GWB has been remarkably frank in his speech and not given to

> embellishment in complexities. Which has been universally ridiculed.

> But his 2nd lord Sun is exalted in Namamsa. So is the 2nd lord from

> Moon Venus.

>

> In terms of Saddam and eclipses. two weeks prior to US announcment to

> go after Saddam Lunar eclipse hit at 11 scorpio- may 26 2002. smack

> on saddams mars and close to moon. = violence possible assassination.

> shortly afterwards GWB. from memory in a few months his ascendant

> lord mercury will be hit by eclipse..

> -----interestingly at the time of GWBs speech to UN moon was on the

> lunar eclipse point that hit saddams mars ie 11 scorpio... nice

> statement that....

>

> using 5.15pm time for usa 4th july etc. varshaphala for this year for

> GWB and USA is remarkably similar with Mars Jupiter in 10th house.

> Not to mention Mars Saturn Rahu in 10th of Chaitra Shukla for

> Washington location for 2002. All indicate war.

>

> moon was conjunct neptune and mercury had just gone retrograde in

> trine to neptune when saddam announced he would accept UN going into

> Baghdad... So immiediately discrediting him was accurate response.

> expect more flip flops in next month

>

> The full moon on the 21st september over Baghdad gives aquarius asc

> with Pluto and MC both at 21 scorpio with mars closing at 20 Leo. the

> neptune jupiter venus in close squares and saturn in square to full

> moon shows the complexities of the current situation. deception

> diplomacy confusion not to mention obstacles with saturn.

>

> Saddams chart is pretty nasty. As you say the Moon hemmed in between

> Mars and Rahu opposing asc lord mercury in 12th suggests pretty

> warped mentality. No benefic aspects to planets ruling mentality at

> all. unless you count debiliated Jupiter in 8th - asura yoga (how

> apt) ie 4th and 5th houses and lords all malefically placed. both

> moon and mercury in dusthanas with debiltated nodes and mars. Scorpio

> moon. Venus with saturn in 10 is giving him the power he has

>

> saturn in 8th transit to Saddams moon is a troublesome period for

> him. luckily. and its on his ascendant.

>

> Mars dasa...... which would tend to increase his aggressiveness and

> ruthless streak. It afflicts Mercury and Moon. Moon is significator

> of the masses, and 4th lord mercury rules people. Holocausts are 4th

> and 12th lord - see 4th lord in 12th mercury afflicted... So Saddam

> is more than capable of mass murder. Even Sun conjunct Uranus in

> Aries will make him full of himself and not likely to listen to

> anyone. He respects freedom only for himself. Viewed in combination

> with such a terrible situation with Moon and Mercury you see a

> confident person with no religion (jupiter) in power. (sun exalted

> and venus saturn rajayoga in 10th) but pure evil and hatred of

> people. (moon jupiter mercury afflictions)

>

> using 8.55time Saddams varshapal looks worse in a 1 or 2 years in

> terms of what he will do... I cant recall offhand. but I looked and I

> felt GWB was right to be concerned about what he WILL get up to.

>

> Its better just to be rid of Saddam. eclipse on GWBs exalted Rahu

> near Uranus... possible sudden and unexpected developments...

>

> The US war plans suggested seem to be looking for a way to remove

> Saddam with as little damage as possible. They are expecting that

> Saddams troops may NOT actually fight and are looking for loop holes

> so they do not fight them if possible. Minimum disruption to Iraqis.

> After all we would hate to have to live in a regime where you could

> get murdered for saying the wrong thing

>

> I would not be surprised at some innovative or surprising military

> strategies in this regard by the US. Saddam will get a full

> opportunity to let inspectors in and avoid this but he wont take it.

> And the US will go in. GWBs 'go it alone' stance is in his varshaphal

> (moon saturn in 8th) but its NOT in the USA varshaphal.... Whether

> that means its just a stance and they wont do it alone......mmmm.

>

> Its a very interesting drama unfolding. A lot more will come out

> about wat Saddam has been up to gradually.. So I found your posts

> discussing this interesting.

>

> Dawn W.

>

> gjlist, "cynthia novak" <cynthianovak@s...> wrote:

> > Dear Nicholas, which chart do you use for Iraq? I've toyed with

> several including the one when SH took power in a coupe de ta.

> >

> > As I said before I really don't like Hussein's Moon hemmed in

> between Rahu in Jyeshta and Mars in Anuradha where the Moon is

> also.the Jupiter station in late November early December might help

> him but it does not look good. Pluto is transiting Rahu in fact it

> makes its final pass soon, it stationed at 21 Scorpio for the 3rd

> time. I consider SH's chart to be a kala sarpa so the transits to

> the nodes are very important as is an eclipse trigger. They seem to

> be more important for KSY than for the average chart.

> >

> > Speaking of KSY there is ol' W the last eclipse hit his nodal axis,

> on Rahu to be exact in the house of groups and he has had a lot of

> trouble with groups. The question about communication is a little

> complicated to answer. Mercury close to Pluto can often give cutting

> or abrupt words that are insightful...a sort of xray vision when you

> need it. Mars in the 2nd give impulsive speech. Someone studying

> with David Frawley told me that David looks to the 5th house to see

> if a person is a liar. Here we have Ketu in Jyeshta (betrayal) and

> disposited by Mars in the 2nd. Looking at this chart I suspect that

> he is a man who believes in what he is doing, Ketu in the 5th feels

> he is called to do what he is doing, and as far as I can tell is

> indeed called in someway. I also find that KSY can be swept into

> things. Now this is certainly not the case for all, but I've got a

> number of clients with this placement and they struggle to see what

> is around them. They can become very exuberant and certainty the

> Moon Jupiter is that. This then leads them to grasp an idea or

> viewpoint tightly but are also willing to let it go when they are

> shown another way. This is why I believe that he is indeed

> influenced by his wife, they seem quite the team and I have never

> heard an ill word spoken about her or her work. The question then

> becomes how is he influenced by his team, I would say with this chart

> very influenced.

> >

> > I hope others will jump in even if you can show me I'm wrong.

> Please, show me where you believe I'm wrong and why.

> >

> > cynthia

> > -

> > Nicholas

> > gjlist

> > Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:39 PM

> > [GJ] Saddam Hussein

> >

> > Dear Cynthia

> > Thanks for getting some astro dialogue going .

> > I'll use 8.55 A. M for consistency .

> > Regardless of which time Mars MD will soon be operating

> indicating 6th house type events .

> > He has just gone through a Rahu return so it is no wonder he is

> having a stressful year .

> > I have found that Venus retrograde is not good for relationships

> and that in women's cases it is associated with frigidity .

> > With Moon Mars and Rahu in the 6th in Scorpio you have in Saddam

> a man obsessed with anger at his enemies .

> > I haven't done enough work on eclipses to comment on what the

> effect of the upcoming one will be on Saddam but the last one also

> fell on sensitive points in the Iraq chart .

> > I made a prediction a while ago that Iraq as it is would collapse

> based on the Iraqi chart within a year of the midyear(2002) eclipse .

> > Cheers

> > Nicholas

> > -

> > cynthia novak

> > gjlist

> > Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:53 AM

> > Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > I have 8:55am, supposedly given by his mother. There is

> another time of 10:30 that another astrologer told me she uses...a

> western astrologer. I have date of birth April 28, 1957 8:55am

> Tikrit Iraq. This shows Mars MD begins on October 12th or 15th.

> >

> > He has been Moon Sun period. Notice Moon with Rahu and MArs in

> the 6th and Moon lord of maraka 2nd. Sun lord of the 3rd.

> >

> > Did you know that Mars had just passed over the Moon, Rahu and

> Mars a few weeks before the nerve gas was released upon the Kurds? I

> really am concerned about the mans perceptions with this chart. Does

> not seem to be any compassion or even reflection. I know that age

> changes things, but I've heard that he has two sons that are even

> more brutal. Here Venus is lord of the 5th, retrograde but exalted in

> Pisces at 28 degrees. I've seen these Venus's be very compassionate

> or very detached from others. I've seen the retrograde Venus

> indicate a person who cannot feel love, or rather struggles tofeel

> love or to get enough love. It can be overcome, but this retrograde

> seems to be pretty problematic without a lot of spiritual worked as

> well as relationship work to understand that others need love too.

> >

> > If your time is correct that moon is even closer to Rahu and so

> to the eclipse on Dec. 4th. Any ideas what that eclipse might bring?

> >

> > The eclipse path is across Australia and the southern part of

> Africa. Still, I find it interesting that he invade Kuwait on an

> eclipse and we began bombing Iraq on an eclipse.

> >

> > please, all join the discussion.

> >

> > c

> >

> > -

> > Nicholas

> > gjlist

> > Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:13 PM

> > Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Dear Cynthia

> > What time do you use for Saddam ?

> > I use 9.30 AM giving a 19 degree Gemini rising chart thinking

> that Ardra Nakshata fitted .That would have him running Mars Mars

> since May 2002 and explains the current dispute .

> > Kind regards

> > Nicholas

> > -

> > cynthia novak

> > gjlist

> > Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:32 AM

> > Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits

> of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon

> hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by

> Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught

> the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial

> evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the

> destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that

> would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations.

> >

> > Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and

> stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of

> 2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did

> you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to

> speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given

> verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth.

> There is another time floating abound of 10:30am.

> >

> > Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this

> astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me

> it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble

> releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned

> to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little

> content.

> >

> > The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too

> late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to

> the ground.

> >

> > To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do

> you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious

> that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his

> daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He

> does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have

> served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you

> think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there

> are few?

> >

> > Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological

> discussion.

> > c

> >

> > -

> > cynthia novak

> > gjlist

> > Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM

> > Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Jesse

> > Never mind, I found it.

> > c

> >

> > -

> > cynthia novak

> > gjlist

> > Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM

> > Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Dear Jesee

> > What is the source of this? I'd like to know more.

> > c

> >

> > -

> > Jiabbot@c...

> > gjlist

> > Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM

> > [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Dear friends on the list,

> >

> > I know there are some on GJ List who somehow,

> incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond

> my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email,

> which I found quite on the mark.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Jesse Abbot

> >

> > >Re: Fwd: War in Iraq

> > >

> > >Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican

> member of Congress from

> > >Texas.

> > >

> > >In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:

> > >

> > >"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war

> with Iraq. I am concerned

> > >there are some questions that won't be asked -- and

> maybe will not even be

> > >allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would

> like answered by

> > >those who are urging us to start this war.

> > >1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb

> the Soviet Union at the

> > >height of the Cold War was because we knew they

> could retaliate?

> > >2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb

> Iraq now because we

> >

> > >know

> > >it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that

> there is no real threat?

> > >3. Is it not true that those who argue that even

> with inspections we

> > >cannot

> > >be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the

> same time imply that

> > >we can be more sure that weapons exist in the

> absence of inspections?

> > >4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic

> Energy Agency was

> > >able

> > >to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq

> just this year with

> > >Iraqi cooperation?

> > >5. Is it not true that the intelligence community

> has been unable to

> > >develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at

> all, much less the

> > >attacks

> > >on the United States last year? Does anyone remember

> that 15 of the 19

> > >hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came

> from Iraq?

> > >6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent

> Cannistraro wrong when

> > >he

> > >recently said there is no confirmed evidence of

> Iraq's links to terrorism?

> > >7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there

> is no evidence that a

> > >Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi

> intelligence took

> > >place?

> > >

> > >8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the

> administration claimed

> > >al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of

> our "allies," the Kurds?

> > >9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda

> leaders who escaped

> > >appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan,

> another of our so-called

> > >allies?

> > >10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly

> sinking into total

> > >chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming

> daily occurrences; and

> > >that according to a recent UN report the al-

> Qaeda "is, by all accounts,

> > >alive and well and poised to strike again, how,

> when, and where it

> > >chooses."

> > >

> > >11. Why are we taking precious military and

> intelligence resources away

> > >from tracking down those who did attack the United

> States -- and who may

> > >again attack the United States -- and using them to

> in

> > vade countries that

> > >have not attacked the United States?

> > >12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the

> Arab world's worst

> > >suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin

> Laden wanted?

> > >13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he

> has no navy or air

> > >force,

> > >and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years

> ago, which even then

> > >proved totally inept at defending the country?

> > >14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to

> declare war is

> > >exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents,

> contrary to the

> > >Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when

> pressured by public

> > >opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN

> for permission to go

> > >to

> > >war?

> > >15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying

> charges that thousands of

> > >Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis,

> which found no conclusive

> > >evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran

> occupied the very city

> > >involved, and that evidence indicate

> > d the type of gas used was more likely

> > >controlled by Iran not Iraq?

> > >16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and

> 300,000 US soldiers

> > >have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from

> the first Gulf War, and

> > >that thousands may have died?

> > >17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of

> American casualties in a war

> > >against a country that does not have the capacity to

> attack the United

> > >States?

> > >18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a

> 100 billion dollar war

> > >against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket

> and further rattle an

> > >already shaky American economy? How about an

> estimated 30 years occupation

> > >of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build

> democracy" there?

> > >19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are

> given as reason to

> > >initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds

> of UN Resolutions

> > >have

> > >been ignored by various countries without penalty?

> > >20. Did former President Bush not cit

> > e the UN Resolution of 1990 as the

> > >reason he could not march into Baghdad, while

> supporters of a new attack

> > >assert that it is the very reason we can march into

> Baghdad?

> > >21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims,

> the no-fly zones were

> > >set up by Britain and the United States without

> specific approval from the

> > >United Nations?

> > >22. If we claim membership in the international

> community and conform to

> > >its rules only when it pleases us, does this not

> serve to undermine our

> > >position, directing animosity toward us by both

> friend and foe?

> > >23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy

> to Iraq be believable

> > >when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East

> and support military

> > >tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a

> democratically-elected

> > >president?

> > >24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings

> that revealed the U.S.

> > >knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials

> to Iraq during the

> > >Iran-Ir

> > aq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the

> alleged Iraqi gas

> > >attack on a Kurdish village?

> > >25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power

> by supporting and

> > >encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to

> criticize Saddam now for

> > >his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively

> supported?

> > >26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous

> with an act of

> > >aggression, and has never been considered a moral or

> legitimate US policy?

> > >27. Why do the oil company executives strongly

> support this war if oil is

> > >not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

> > >28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform

> and are confident that

> > >they won't have to personally fight this war are

> more anxious for this war

> > >than our generals?

> > >29. What is the moral argument for attacking a

> nation that has not

> > >initiated aggression against us, and could not if it

> wanted?

> > >30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission

> to wage war for a

> > ny

> > >reason other than self-defense?

> > >31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects

> the sentiments of the

> > >time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years

> ago, that countries

> > >should never go into another for the purpose of

> regime change?

> > >32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society

> is, the less likely

> > >disagreements will be settled by war?

> > >33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress

> has not declared war

> > >and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then

> had a clear-cut

> > >victory?

> > >

> > >34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through

> its intelligence

> > >services, was an active supporter and key organizer

> of the Taliban?

> > >35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal

> declaration of war

> > >resolution to the floor of Congress?

> > >--

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> @e...

> >

> Terms of Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> @e...

> >

> Terms of Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-@e...

> >

> > Terms

> of Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-@e...

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-@e...

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-@e...

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-@e...

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

September 23, 2002

Dear Cynthia

The chart I use for Iraq is the founding of the Baathist state July 14 1958 7.00

AM TZ 3 E Bagdhad Lagna Cancer 21.

The Lagna Lord Moon is at 25.44 Taurus .

The solar eclipse of June 10 2002 was at 26.10 Taurus .

Thus the solar eclipse hit a very sensitive point in the Iraq chart and in the 3

and a half months since th eclipse Iraq has seen a big military build up against

it .

The planetary period Saturn Mercury is not helpful for the Cancer Lagna .

I am still of the belief that the Baathist government is in it's last year .The

difficulty for the United States is how to remove a little loved government

without causing more harm to a long suffering people and also to get global

support for an action that will have elements of risk attached to it .

Kind regards

Nicholas

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Monday, September 23, 2002 10:00 AM