Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 If anyone thought my last post was spam, or is non-plussed because it didn't have anything to do with the official Vidya thing, no apologies!! We have a dangerous child (and his dangerous grown-up pals) playing soldier in the White House. Best, JIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Jesse Never mind, I found it. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 He IS doing a decent job. Mistakes have been made by him (and his crew) and I don't like EVERYTHING about his policies. (For instance, I think we should be at least somewhat patient regarding Iraq and Saddam Hussein. I also think he should have been "removed" in 1991.) BUT, I would rather have THIS man in office than that professional politician Al Gore (who is NOT, by the way half the man his father was). As to Rep. Paul's questions - and in truth, I think they are fair, if somewhat leading : 1) Yes, that is true. But that is only PART of the reason. We simply did not want a war. It would have made no sense. 2) Here it is a bit more complicated. As far as PUBLIC information is concerned, Iraq cannot (at this time) use nuclear or biochemical weapons. BUT - and this is a BIG, Saddam IS trying very hard to get to that point. How close he is to it, we aren't sure. In essence, I'll ask this: Would you rather wait until Saddam CAN use these "big ones?" I, for one, would not. 3) I would say that on the surface, that seems a reasonable assessment. (Another BUT, here) BUT, if there ARE no weapons or facilities for building them, WHY does Saddam continually flout the will of the UN by denying access for those inspection. It seems reasonable to me that if you have nothing to hide, let EVERYONE know that by allowing the inspections. 4) That inspection is NOT a weapons facility inspection. It is effectively a cursory glance at best. 5) If you were going to perform a covert destructive "mission" in a foreign country, where by the way you stick out like a sore thumb, would YOU use Americans to say blow up Baghdad. No, you would use a team of people who from somewhere NOT from where YOU are from. This question doesn't even make sense. 6) I never believe the reports from CIA/FBI/NSA etc. that say they "have no information regarding..." Why?? It's very simple - If you know something like that, you don't want the other side to know that you know it. The reason is, if they know you know, they will try to change their plans, location, whatever. In other words, whatever WAS true will be made to NOT be true any longer. Rep. Paul should know this. 7) That might be true, but it is ALSO true that Saddam met PERSONALLY with Osama bin Laden - AND gave him a large amount of money. 8) Isn't it true also that Al Qaeda is in Pakistan - another ally. This is also a stupid question. 9) See my answer above. and they (Pakistan) ARE helping to find them. 10) Iraq has been in chaos ever since this Hussein took power. Iraq is just one more country where a power monger with an ego bigger than Texas controls everything that happens in that country. 11) See Answer #7 12) That is why cooler heads are prevailing. In fact, Saudi Arabia wants Saddam out as well. Patience is now being exercised. Saddam will trap himself. He DOES have a pattern of "Delay & Deceive" 13) The comparison is one of intent, not of ability (Thank God!) 14) Again, this is something the Rep. should know - The President MAY (and has ALWAYS had this ability) send troops for up to 180 days WITHOUT consulting Congress at all. These powers were expanded at the time of the first Iraq incident. 15) Saddam has gassed his OWN people, and not just in the northern Kurd territories. And he WANTS people to know he did it. It makes them FEAR him more. And if he WASN'T responsible for it, he should be tarred-and-feathered for ALLOWING it. 16) Just one more reason to get rid of Saddam. 17) What I want - and I am a combat veteran - is peace. Nothing would please me more than to not have to send troops to Iraq or anywhere else for that matter. But, being realistic, requires me to commit to seeing Saddam ousted - before he CAN attack the US. I had friends in those towers. 18) I hate to tell you this, but our economy booms in war, so this is not a consideration. The economy WILL turn around though whether we sends troops to Iraq or not. But yes, I would send troops ( I DO still want to wait for the inspections to take place.) However, any sleight-of-hand, and I think we should go in. This would be clear evidence of "hanky- panky". 19) That is the whole point - if they are not enforced, what is the point of having them? 20) Read the resolution - I have. 21) The US and Britain WERE granted "discretion" in the police action. 22) That would be true for anyone - but, the US and most of it's allies seem to be the ones actually playing by the rules. 23) We also supported Osama bin Laden at one time -- bin Laden became a terrorist, Musharaff become a partner. What is your point? That has NOTHING to do with this situation. 24) We have not supplied "chemical weapons" to anyone - unless you count antitoxins and gas masks... 25) Saddam's true nature was not revealed until later - See Ans 23. 26) The US had always had a "lassez-faire" policy until World War I - and tried to prior to World War II - didn't work. Or don't you study history? 27) Of course, there will be some gains for the Oil industry. And we don't "plan to take over Iraq" - just remove Saddam. 28) Good question. I have three tours behind me. Why didn't someone ever question Clinton (draft-dodger) or Al Gore (week-end draft-dodger). the same question. NEITHER actually knew a thing about the military. 29) A repeated question which has already been answered. 30) Also already answered... 31) Actually the Treaty of Westphalia had more to do with being tired of war than anything else (It ended the "30-years War"), as neither the Catholics or Protestants could gain a decisive victory. The other main thing it did was establish Holland and Switzerland as independent states. Again, read your history. 32) I agree, but when you have a bully in the schoolyard, even if he isn't picking on you, he eventually he has to be stopped. Sooner or later, he WILL come after you. And he is likely to bring friends if he fears you. And I for one, worry about a coward, much more than I do a brave man. Normally, the brave man will be reasonable. Saddam and his ilk are cowards. 33) Oh! we won in Iraq. But like Vietnam, we were not allowed to COMPLETE the job. And it was you DAMNED politicians that prevented it - so shut up! 34) Not Pakistan - Pakistanis! 35) A police action is all that is needed here.. Now, Rep. Paul, and anyone else interested - I will listen. Best regards, Martin Michaels Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com [Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com]Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AMgjlistSubject: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Dear Friends, What I would prefer instead of quoted articles cluttering up our List, is a URL address pointing to the article whenever possible, in case I wish to read more of the topic, or less. Thanks! have a happy weekend, everyone. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 This also prevents "misquotes"... Best regards, Martin Carolhook [Carolhook] Friday, September 20, 2002 11:01 AM gjlist Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Friends, What I would prefer instead of quoted articles cluttering up our List, is a URL address pointing to the article whenever possible, in case I wish to read more of the topic, or less. Thanks! have a happy weekend, everyone. Carol Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations. Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of 2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth. There is another time floating abound of 10:30am. Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little content. The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to the ground. To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there are few? Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological discussion. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Jesse Never mind, I found it. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Cynthia - I would be interested very much in this. You see, unlike many of the uninformed people who have blamed "Dubya" for our economic woes of late. I have actually MET the man (when he was Governor of Texas). My impression of him was that he was very ambitious, but that he was also a very decent and genuine human being. Like you, I like Laura Bush very much. She does appear to influence GW's thinking, or more correctly, I think she provides critique where it is needed. She, unlike the former first lady, actually seems to care about people and not just about how she is perceived. These are a decent couple we have living in the White House right now...not perfect certainly, but who is. And I would rather have someone who I know is at least trying to do the RIGHT thing, than someone who wants to do the POPULAR thing. I think we are the better for having George W. Bush in office, particularly with Laura Bush next to him. He has not always been the most articulate man, but he has good people working for him in Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. More importantly though he appears to listen to them. How do you read his ability to make sound judgments? Best regards, Martin cynthia novak [cynthianovak (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net]Friday, September 20, 2002 12:32 PMTo: gjlistSubject: Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations. Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of 2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth. There is another time floating abound of 10:30am. Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little content. The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to the ground. To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there are few? Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological discussion. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Jesse Never mind, I found it. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Dear Cynthia What time do you use for Saddam ? I use 9.30 AM giving a 19 degree Gemini rising chart thinking that Ardra Nakshata fitted .That would have him running Mars Mars since May 2002 and explains the current dispute . Kind regards Nicholas - cynthia novak gjlist Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:32 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations. Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of 2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth. There is another time floating abound of 10:30am. Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little content. The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to the ground. To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there are few? Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological discussion. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Jesse Never mind, I found it. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 I have 8:55am, supposedly given by his mother. There is another time of 10:30 that another astrologer told me she uses...a western astrologer. I have date of birth April 28, 1957 8:55am Tikrit Iraq. This shows Mars MD begins on October 12th or 15th. He has been Moon Sun period. Notice Moon with Rahu and MArs in the 6th and Moon lord of maraka 2nd. Sun lord of the 3rd. Did you know that Mars had just passed over the Moon, Rahu and Mars a few weeks before the nerve gas was released upon the Kurds? I really am concerned about the mans perceptions with this chart. Does not seem to be any compassion or even reflection. I know that age changes things, but I've heard that he has two sons that are even more brutal. Here Venus is lord of the 5th, retrograde but exalted in Pisces at 28 degrees. I've seen these Venus's be very compassionate or very detached from others. I've seen the retrograde Venus indicate a person who cannot feel love, or rather struggles tofeel love or to get enough love. It can be overcome, but this retrograde seems to be pretty problematic without a lot of spiritual worked as well as relationship work to understand that others need love too. If your time is correct that moon is even closer to Rahu and so to the eclipse on Dec. 4th. Any ideas what that eclipse might bring? The eclipse path is across Australia and the southern part of Africa. Still, I find it interesting that he invade Kuwait on an eclipse and we began bombing Iraq on an eclipse. please, all join the discussion. c - Nicholas gjlist Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:13 PM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Cynthia What time do you use for Saddam ? I use 9.30 AM giving a 19 degree Gemini rising chart thinking that Ardra Nakshata fitted .That would have him running Mars Mars since May 2002 and explains the current dispute . Kind regards Nicholas - cynthia novak gjlist Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:32 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Would anyone be interested in a discussion of the transits of SH and GWB? The one that concerns me the most is SH's natal Moon hemmed in between Rahu and Mars retrograde. This was transited by Mars just before Iraq began attacking the Kurds. If anyone caught the Wide Angle program devoted to this on PBS, there is substantial evidence that he and his administration were well aware of the destruction the nerve gas would do to this generation and those that would follow in terms of birth defects and cellular malformations. Did anyone happen to remember that Mars transited and stationed on these placements in SH's chart through the summer of 2001? Did you notice the eclipse triggering them on Dec. 2002? Did you notice that Mars again crosses them Jan. 2003? Anyone want to speculate about this. BTW, time of birth I posted before was given verbally by his mother when she was talking about her son's birth. There is another time floating abound of 10:30am. Anyone have any ideas or want to talk about this astrologically? What about the kala sarpa in the heavens now? TO me it seems that we are grabbed by an idea or concept and have trouble releasing it each month. I've taken a break from TV news and turned to online services lest I be grabbed by lower chakra fear with little content. The biggest concern it that we act too harshly or too late. That is a delicate tight rope to walk, either way you fall to the ground. To those of you who may see GWB filled with hate, how do you see that in his chart? I really like his wife and it is obvious that he relies upon her insights, it is also that he really loves his daughters. THis might have something to do with his passion. He does seem to treat women well according to flight attendants who have served him and the obvious attachment to his long-time aide. Do you think some of this might be a desire for women's rights where there are few? Just posing some ideas and hoping for astrological discussion. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:18 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Jesse Never mind, I found it. c - cynthia novak gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 7:13 AM Re: [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear Jesee What is the source of this? I'd like to know more. c - Jiabbot (AT) cs (DOT) com gjlist Friday, September 20, 2002 12:00 AM [GJ] Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul Dear friends on the list,I know there are some on GJ List who somehow, incredibly, think Dubya is doing a decent job. This is simply beyond my reckoning; nonetheless, I wanted to share the following email, which I found quite on the mark.Best,Jesse Abbot>Re: Fwd: War in Iraq>>Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from>Texas.>>In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002:>>>"Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned>there are some questions that won't be asked -- and maybe will not even be>allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by>those who are urging us to start this war.>1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the>height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?>2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we>know>it cannot retaliate -- which just confirms that there is no real threat?>3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we>cannot>be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that>we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?>4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was>able>to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with>Iraqi cooperation?>5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to>develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the>attacks>on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19>hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?>6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when>he>recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?>7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a>Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took>place?>>8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed>al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?>9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped>appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called>allies?>10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total>chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and>that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts,>alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it>chooses.">>11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away>from tracking down those who did attack the United States -- and who may>again attack the United States -- and using them to invade countries that>have not attacked the United States?>12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst>suspicions about the USA?" and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?>13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air>force,>and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then>proved totally inept at defending the country?>14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is>exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the>Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public>opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go>to>war?>15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of>Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive>evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city>involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely>controlled by Iran not Iraq?>16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers>have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and>that thousands may have died?>17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war>against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United>States?>18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war>against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an>already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation>of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?>19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to>initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions>have>been ignored by various countries without penalty?>20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the>reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack>assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?>21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were>set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the>United Nations?>22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to>its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our>position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?>23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable>when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military>tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected>president?>24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S.>knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the>Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 -- including after the alleged Iraqi gas>attack on a Kurdish village?>25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and>encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for>his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?>26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of>aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?>27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is>not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?>28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that>they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war>than our generals?>29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not>initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?>30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any>reason other than self-defense?>31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the>time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries>should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?>32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely>disagreements will be settled by war?>33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war>and -- not coincidentally -- we have not since then had a clear-cut>victory?>>34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence>services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?>35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war>resolution to the floor of Congress?>--Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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