Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

[Guest guest]

You may have heard the story about a Nigerian woman sentenced to death for

having a child out of wedlock. She will be buried up to her neck. Then be

her punishers will surround her and throw rocks at her head until her skull

is crushed and she dies a painful and horrible death

 

I have attached the link to the Amnesty

International site. On the right hand side, there is a letter to the

Nigerian president which you can sign. The woman has 30 days to appeal

against her sentence. It takes less than one minute to sign the letter. It

may be worth forwarding this on to all your friends - I have signed it.

 

 

 

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/

 

 

 

 

I got the above in my email. I'm posting it here since we use GJLIST as

a cultural shakeout point quite often as well.

 

I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

 

 

 

Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

 

 

 

--

 

 

Das Goravani , President

 

2852 Willamette St, #353

Eugene, Oregon, 97405

USA

 

Voice:

 

or

 

<>

 

 

Home of "Goravani Jyotish"

 

Vedic Astrology Software , and more...

[Guest guest]

On 9/10/02 at 3:01 PM Das Goravani wrote:

 

>I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

>

>

>

>Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

>

>

The answer is not whether, but how. If I (the government) told you it

was against the law, nay a capital offense, to spit on the sidewalk,

and you did it, you would be guilty of a capital offense.

 

If you were to be given a lethal injection (although we can debate

the morality of capital punishment) this would be a humane

sentence. You would pass out and expire.

 

If, on the other hand, you were to have your spinal fluid removed so

that your brain slowly collapsed of its weight in your skull and every

movement was agony until you finally expired, this would be most

inhumane.

 

Again the question is how, now why.

 

The morality of it can also be debated, as to whether a male should

suffer the same fate (or would) and whether the fetus should suffer the

fate of its parent.

 

As for me, the question of how is sufficient.

 

-- John M

[Guest guest]

All, and John,

 

We part company here...

 

I agree that (within certain bounds of reasonability) each

country should make and enforce its own laws. BUT, there IS

that little question of what is reasonable...

 

1) I am FOR Capital Punishment. BUT...

2) The punishment should fit the crime (that is be reasonable

generally speaking).

3) The punishment should be humane, regardless.

 

It is my considered opinion, based on what I know of this case,

that the crime is not worthy of death; that the punishment itself

is unreasonable; and that the punishment is brutally cruel.

 

This clearly is not reasonable...

 

I urge everyone to join me in signing the letter in Mr. Goravani's

note.

 

Best Regards,

Martin

 

 

John Melka [johnm]

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:25 PM

gjlist

Re: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

 

 

On 9/10/02 at 3:01 PM Das Goravani wrote:

 

>I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

>

>

>

>Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

>

>

The answer is not whether, but how. If I (the government) told you it

was against the law, nay a capital offense, to spit on the sidewalk,

and you did it, you would be guilty of a capital offense.

 

If you were to be given a lethal injection (although we can debate

the morality of capital punishment) this would be a humane

sentence. You would pass out and expire.

 

If, on the other hand, you were to have your spinal fluid removed so

that your brain slowly collapsed of its weight in your skull and every

movement was agony until you finally expired, this would be most

inhumane.

 

Again the question is how, now why.

 

The morality of it can also be debated, as to whether a male should

suffer the same fate (or would) and whether the fetus should suffer the

fate of its parent.

 

As for me, the question of how is sufficient.

 

-- John M

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

An addendum...

 

I forgot to include what I personally consider crimes that

deserve the death penalty. These would be, but not necessarily

limited to:

 

Murder (NOT accidentally caused deaths)

Rape (particularly of children)

Kidnapping (particularly involving terrorism)

Drug Sales to Children (of hard drugs, narcotics, etc.)

 

The creation of life is definitely NOT one of these things.

 

Best regards,

Martin

 

 

MICHAELS, MARTIN (AIT)

[sentto-490438-13227-1031697234-mm6365=sbc.com

oo.com]

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:34 PM

'gjlist'

RE: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

 

 

All, and John,

 

We part company here...

 

I agree that (within certain bounds of reasonability) each

country should make and enforce its own laws. BUT, there IS

that little question of what is reasonable...

 

1) I am FOR Capital Punishment. BUT...

2) The punishment should fit the crime (that is be reasonable

generally speaking).

3) The punishment should be humane, regardless.

 

It is my considered opinion, based on what I know of this case,

that the crime is not worthy of death; that the punishment itself

is unreasonable; and that the punishment is brutally cruel.

 

This clearly is not reasonable...

 

I urge everyone to join me in signing the letter in Mr. Goravani's

note.

 

Best Regards,

Martin

 

 

John Melka [johnm]

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:25 PM

gjlist

Re: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

 

 

On 9/10/02 at 3:01 PM Das Goravani wrote:

 

>I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

>

>

>

>Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

>

>

The answer is not whether, but how. If I (the government) told you it

was against the law, nay a capital offense, to spit on the sidewalk,

and you did it, you would be guilty of a capital offense.

 

If you were to be given a lethal injection (although we can debate

the morality of capital punishment) this would be a humane

sentence. You would pass out and expire.

 

If, on the other hand, you were to have your spinal fluid removed so

that your brain slowly collapsed of its weight in your skull and every

movement was agony until you finally expired, this would be most

inhumane.

 

Again the question is how, now why.

 

The morality of it can also be debated, as to whether a male should

suffer the same fate (or would) and whether the fetus should suffer the

fate of its parent.

 

As for me, the question of how is sufficient.

 

-- John M

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Actually, we don't.

 

I believe that certain crimes are worthy of a death penalty and certain crimes

are not.

I do not believe that I can dictate to another culture what should and shouldn't

be

done within their country.

 

We can argue endlessly what should and shouldn't be capital crimes. I, for one,

believe

that single murder should not be a capital crime, but should be punished with a

long incarceration.

Very few single murders ever commit another crime except where there are death

penalties.

 

But this was not the point I was raising. The matter is immoral because of the

inhumanity of it.

 

-- John M

 

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

 

On 9/10/02 at 6:33 PM MICHAELS, MARTIN (AIT) wrote:

 

>All, and John,

>

>We part company here...

>

>I agree that (within certain bounds of reasonability) each

>country should make and enforce its own laws. BUT, there IS

>that little question of what is reasonable...

>

>1) I am FOR Capital Punishment. BUT...

>2) The punishment should fit the crime (that is be reasonable

> generally speaking).

>3) The punishment should be humane, regardless.

>

>It is my considered opinion, based on what I know of this case,

>that the crime is not worthy of death; that the punishment itself

>is unreasonable; and that the punishment is brutally cruel.

>

>This clearly is not reasonable...

>

>I urge everyone to join me in signing the letter in Mr. Goravani's

>note.

>

>Best Regards,

>Martin

>

>

>John Melka [johnm]

>Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:25 PM

>gjlist

>Re: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

>

>

>On 9/10/02 at 3:01 PM Das Goravani wrote:

>

>>I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

>>

>>

>>

>>Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

>>

>>

>The answer is not whether, but how. If I (the government) told you it

>was against the law, nay a capital offense, to spit on the sidewalk,

>and you did it, you would be guilty of a capital offense.

>

>If you were to be given a lethal injection (although we can debate

>the morality of capital punishment) this would be a humane

>sentence. You would pass out and expire.

>

>If, on the other hand, you were to have your spinal fluid removed so

>that your brain slowly collapsed of its weight in your skull and every

>movement was agony until you finally expired, this would be most

>inhumane.

>

>Again the question is how, now why.

>

>The morality of it can also be debated, as to whether a male should

>suffer the same fate (or would) and whether the fetus should suffer the

>fate of its parent.

>

>As for me, the question of how is sufficient.

>

>-- John M

>

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

Strange but stupid:

"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero,

they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs"

(Weren't Roman C programs always 500 lines long?)

John F (Jack) Melka

[Guest guest]

Dear Das,

"Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?"

 

No body, But the maximum we can do on humanity ground is the link you has

provided.

And why the hell we shall not tell Nigeria that they are doing it wrong , if

we have a way to tell.

 

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni

House No. 1351-HIG, Model Town,

Phase-1, Bhatinda-151001 Pb.<India>

hanskpvedic

[Guest guest]

John,

 

Actually, I understood your point. When I said we part company,

I was talking about the "let them run their own country" part.

And even that up to a point, I have no problem with. But I also

think that some of the "laws" other countries enforce go waaaay

beyond reasonable. That one for example... Why is it even necessary

to incarcerate a single mother. It is definitely beyond to sentence

her to death.

 

After all - other countries spend a lot of their time telling US how

idiotic OUR laws are. (And sometimes, they are right!)

 

Sorry for the mis-speak...We aren't THAT far apart on this.

 

Best Regards,

Martin

 

 

 

John Melka [johnm]

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:00 PM

gjlist

RE: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

 

 

Actually, we don't.

 

I believe that certain crimes are worthy of a death penalty and certain

crimes are not.

I do not believe that I can dictate to another culture what should and

shouldn't be

done within their country.

 

We can argue endlessly what should and shouldn't be capital crimes. I, for

one, believe

that single murder should not be a capital crime, but should be punished

with a long incarceration.

Very few single murders ever commit another crime except where there are

death penalties.

 

But this was not the point I was raising. The matter is immoral because of

the inhumanity of it.

 

-- John M

 

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

 

On 9/10/02 at 6:33 PM MICHAELS, MARTIN (AIT) wrote:

 

>All, and John,

>

>We part company here...

>

>I agree that (within certain bounds of reasonability) each

>country should make and enforce its own laws. BUT, there IS

>that little question of what is reasonable...

>

>1) I am FOR Capital Punishment. BUT...

>2) The punishment should fit the crime (that is be reasonable

> generally speaking).

>3) The punishment should be humane, regardless.

>

>It is my considered opinion, based on what I know of this case,

>that the crime is not worthy of death; that the punishment itself

>is unreasonable; and that the punishment is brutally cruel.

>

>This clearly is not reasonable...

>

>I urge everyone to join me in signing the letter in Mr. Goravani's

>note.

>

>Best Regards,

>Martin

>

>

>John Melka [johnm]

>Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:25 PM

>gjlist

>Re: [GJ] Interference, Prime Directive, Who Decides on Culture?

>

>

>On 9/10/02 at 3:01 PM Das Goravani wrote:

>

>>I'm saying now, the odd thing, which is:

>>

>>

>>

>>Who the hell are we to tell Nigeria how to run it's laws?

>>

>>

>The answer is not whether, but how. If I (the government) told you it

>was against the law, nay a capital offense, to spit on the sidewalk,

>and you did it, you would be guilty of a capital offense.

>

>If you were to be given a lethal injection (although we can debate

>the morality of capital punishment) this would be a humane

>sentence. You would pass out and expire.

>

>If, on the other hand, you were to have your spinal fluid removed so

>that your brain slowly collapsed of its weight in your skull and every

>movement was agony until you finally expired, this would be most

>inhumane.

>

>Again the question is how, now why.

>

>The morality of it can also be debated, as to whether a male should

>suffer the same fate (or would) and whether the fetus should suffer the

>fate of its parent.

>

>As for me, the question of how is sufficient.

>

>-- John M

>

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>: gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

Strange but stupid:

"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking

zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C

programs"

(Weren't Roman C programs always 500 lines long?)

John F (Jack) Melka

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Hello

 

On the Nigerian situation, my feelings are, mixed.

 

I don't see the death as different than other methods. I find the extra

stuff drama only, not affecting the victim. I would never punish a woman

for getting pregnent, ever.

 

However, I live in a Vatta rich community with ample everything fully

full of people into spiritual life, where the order of law is commonly

accepted and fully implemented, where, not oddly, the emergency system

known as 911 is fully in place. I live in and idealic society as per

Earth today.

 

However, tribal africa is not this way, and it operates differently out

of necessity, as did other older indigenous cultures throughout history.

What they are doing is rather common, if you go back a couple thousand

years. Such things every culture had, heads on sticks, impaling,

quartering, slashing, pummelling...torturing, basically. Everywhere.

 

They've got serious problems there with population, starvation, AIDS,

and the troubling times of integrating into modernness for a very old

culture that is currently in a state of total poverty by modern

development standards. Judgement is certainly not to be in our game, at

all, that's for sure. Help is the only meaningful alternative, but that

brings the interference element, which is highly destabalizing, so

unless you can build a parachute and catch them, and are willing to do

that to the end, as a people, then interference becomes a very risky game.

 

Obviously, it's already all started long ago. I'm speaking principles. I

know people who are there, to help. The issues are heart breaking. I

guess I'm crying out for the general voice of the disenchanted there, in

the millions, who don't know whether to turn left or right, up or down,

because they are still in the middle of the conversion process, and it's

painful. Should we go the old ways to fight for our self image, or

should we change, and if we do, we're currently not set up for it, so

it's like, going to be very painful as well.

 

Peace, for Africa,

--

 

 

Das Goravani , President

 

2852 Willamette St, #353

Eugene, Oregon, 97405

USA

 

Voice:

 

or

 

<>

 

 

Home of "Goravani Jyotish"

 

Vedic Astrology Software , and more...