Jaimini not only way

July 28, 2002

Jesse Abbot

Infant Jyotishi

----------------

Tantric Jyotish

If the origins of the Parashari and Jaimini systems are unclear, then Tantric

Jyotish's roots are utterly unknown. In fact, neither Tantric Jyotish nor

Tantra, its parent, can be readily defined. Like Ayurveda, Tantra is said to be

an offshoot of the Atharva Veda, the fourth of the four Vedas; but as yet no one

has a clear idea of the origins of the Atharva Veda, a hymnal filled with occult

chants and charms. In an astrological context the word 'Tantric' implies a

mystical and intuitive attitude toward Jyotish. Tantra calls for 'sacrificial

rites', and a practitioner of Tantric Jyotish tends to rely on internally

derived information over that collected from external sources, arriving at

startling correct conclusions via magical techniques.

These techniques include but are not limited to the observation and

interpretation of omens; the observation and analysis of the jyotishi's

breathing patterns at the moment a question is asked; the interpretation of a

client's speech-patterns and actions; the encouraging of spontaneous or forced

visions; clairvoyance, clairaudience, or astral travel; the use of information

received from ethereal beings; the use of substances or techniques to induce

such paranormal or psychic phenomena as the charming of objects or people,

past-Iife readings, miraculous cures, and the granting of boons; and the use of

intense spiritual practices to bring the powers of nature under one's direct and

personal control.

Many systems of divination around the world also employ such techniques, but few

who do past-Iife readings or trance channeling are practicing Tantric Jyotish.

Tantric methods of divination are typically performed within the framework of

Jyotish's model, a framework which helps to focus, enhance and structure them.

It is this process of standardization and correlation which makes astrological

the collection of shamanic techniques that is Tantric Jyotish. For example,

while omens may be interpreted in many ways, Jyotish tends to interpret them

according to time (when they happen) and space (where they happen). An omen

which occurs in a westerly direction is likely to cause a jyotishi to think

first of Saturn, who rules the west, and then to consider Saturn's implications

on the question at hand. Another example: people in many cultures have been able

to gain control over certain classes of spirits, but most do so haphazardly, and

are often unaware of what sort of spirit they have harnessed. Jyotish, however,

can determine, by examination of the horoscope, whether or not a person can

succeed at such an endeavor, what classes of spirit they will be able to

summon, when in their lives they will be able to succeed, and at what precise

moment they should begin their rituals in order to succeed. (pp. 18-19)

In a message dated 7/28/02 10:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, das (AT) goravani (DOT) com writes:

Hari wrote:

Kuta or points agreement is just a part of the whole solution. What is

infinitely more important is the karmic compatability. This is shown only by Upapada matching.

dg writes in response

-----------------------

The Kutas disect the Chandra relationship, but that isn't karmic?

Infinitely more important?

Karmic Compatibility? Is not it all karmic, the whole chart?

Without Jaimini techniques, there is no match making?

In Ireland they add myth to history, in India they add emphasis to everything.

This I've had to slowly understand. You cannot believe the words like "always

works","without fail", and "definitely must" etc.

In the above parag. by Hari, the words 'infintely' and 'only' are not needed and

add undo emphasis, for example. Placing "karmic compatibility" onto one

technique is not a good choice of phrasing, and if you mean it, it's a bad

idea, and if you really believe it, I can't believe that. One technique, one

simple counting game, and to you that will be RELIED ON for judging something

as lofty as "karmic compatibility"? I gently voice disagreement with the idea

and emphasis. I know that there is a trend to put everything into Jaimini,

place all tricks on the shoulders of his techniques, but I beg to differ. I get

so many things correct without knowing anything about Jaimini techniques.

Therefore I do a little resistance dance when I see it being promoted as a

"must" for anything except itself, Jaimini techniques.

I also want to remind the list that once I asked the list to read my chart for

certain things and guess the date I got married. A cross-using Western/Eastern

astrologer from South America got it within a month using Western techniques

and nobody else got close.

Another time I asked the list to guess what disease I had at that time and

someone got it right without Jaimini, and it wasn't obvious or easy.

I've predicted numerous things that came true exactly without any Jaimini. The

range of things in life is wide too, all kinds of events.

To make it seem as though one must learn Jaimini or KP is not true.

My reality anyway,

dg

July 28, 2002

Hari wrote:

Kuta or points agreement is just a part of the whole solution. What is

infinitely more important is the karmic compatability. This is shown

only by Upapada matching.

dg writes in response

-----------------------

The Kutas disect the Chandra relationship, but that isn't karmic?

Infinitely more important?

Karmic Compatibility? Is not it all karmic, the whole chart?

Without Jaimini techniques, there is no match making?

In Ireland they add myth to history, in India they add emphasis to

everything. This I've had to slowly understand. You cannot believe the

words like "always works","without fail", and "definitely must" etc.

In the above parag. by Hari, the words 'infintely' and 'only' are not

needed and add undo emphasis, for example. Placing "karmic

compatibility" onto one technique is not a good choice of phrasing, and

if you mean it, it's a bad idea, and if you really believe it, I can't

believe that. One technique, one simple counting game, and to you that

will be RELIED ON for judging something as lofty as "karmic

compatibility"? I gently voice disagreement with the idea and emphasis.

I know that there is a trend to put everything into Jaimini, place all

tricks on the shoulders of his techniques, but I beg to differ. I get so

many things correct without knowing anything about Jaimini techniques.

Therefore I do a little resistance dance when I see it being promoted as

a "must" for anything except itself, Jaimini techniques.

I also want to remind the list that once I asked the list to read my

chart for certain things and guess the date I got married. A cross-using

Western/Eastern astrologer from South America got it within a month

using Western techniques and nobody else got close.

Another time I asked the list to guess what disease I had at that time

and someone got it right without Jaimini, and it wasn't obvious or easy.

I've predicted numerous things that came true exactly without any

Jaimini. The range of things in life is wide too, all kinds of events.

To make it seem as though one must learn Jaimini or KP is not true.

My reality anyway,

dg

July 28, 2002

Dear Das & Hari,

Allow me to 'interrupt's with the following:

In my humble opinion and short experience, no judgment should be made

regarding compatibility before ALL avenues are explored, tested and

verified.

Firstly, it is the question of the individuals destiny. The astrologer is

only a "go-in-between" (the degree depends on the society and culture). The

outcome of any matching will always correspond to the involved individuals

destiny (read karmic), regardless of the astrological (or any other) advice.

The free-will part will demand it's share too.

Secondly, using Parasara and/or Jaimini methods will not be a water proof

guarantee that two individuals truly "fit" together. I found some of the

western techniques to be of great help in determining compatibility issues,

though not always as perfect as I would have liked it to be.

Thirdly, two "compatible" people are not necessarily guarantied a peaceful,

harmonic and developing life. There is much more to it in the 'modern'

western society.

After all, we have the roll of advisors - NOT God.

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

-

"Das Goravani" <>

Sunday, July 28, 2002 5:07 PM

[GJ] Jaimini not only way

>

> Hari wrote:

>

> Kuta or points agreement is just a part of the whole solution. What is

> infinitely more important is the karmic compatability. This is shown

> only by Upapada matching.

>

> dg writes in response

> -----------------------

>

> The Kutas disect the Chandra relationship, but that isn't karmic?

>

> Infinitely more important?

>

> Karmic Compatibility? Is not it all karmic, the whole chart?

>

> Without Jaimini techniques, there is no match making?

>

> In Ireland they add myth to history, in India they add emphasis to

> everything. This I've had to slowly understand. You cannot believe the

> words like "always works","without fail", and "definitely must" etc.

>

> In the above parag. by Hari, the words 'infintely' and 'only' are not

> needed and add undo emphasis, for example. Placing "karmic

> compatibility" onto one technique is not a good choice of phrasing, and

> if you mean it, it's a bad idea, and if you really believe it, I can't

> believe that. One technique, one simple counting game, and to you that

> will be RELIED ON for judging something as lofty as "karmic

> compatibility"? I gently voice disagreement with the idea and emphasis.

> I know that there is a trend to put everything into Jaimini, place all

> tricks on the shoulders of his techniques, but I beg to differ. I get so

> many things correct without knowing anything about Jaimini techniques.

> Therefore I do a little resistance dance when I see it being promoted as

> a "must" for anything except itself, Jaimini techniques.

>

> I also want to remind the list that once I asked the list to read my

> chart for certain things and guess the date I got married. A cross-using

> Western/Eastern astrologer from South America got it within a month

> using Western techniques and nobody else got close.

>

> Another time I asked the list to guess what disease I had at that time

> and someone got it right without Jaimini, and it wasn't obvious or easy.

>

> I've predicted numerous things that came true exactly without any

> Jaimini. The range of things in life is wide too, all kinds of events.

>

> To make it seem as though one must learn Jaimini or KP is not true.

>

> My reality anyway,

>

> dg

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

July 28, 2002

Om Gurave Namah,

Dear Das,

Thanks for the mail. I am only a student of Vedic-astrology. The only reason

i used the work infinetly is becouse the Upapada matching is usually

overseen by most jyotishis. As far as the kuta relationship goes, since the

basis of that is moon it surely denotes only the mental outlook of the

person.

As mentioned, i am only a student. But thanks for the mail again.

Regds

Hari

-

"Das Goravani" <>

Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:37 PM