How it is both, Das Responds

[Guest guest]

Siddhartha wrote:

 

Well considering that "enlightened-ness" of a person can be ascertained

based on that person's birth-chart, is it possible that these days we

simply are not getting those planetary combinations up in the sky that

would cause the child to grow up to be righteous? And if that is the

case, all those (and that includes you Das) who are trying to spread the

word of the Vedanta are simply wasting their time because most of the

people alive today simply don't have it in their Dharma to get attracted

to this knowledge? Even if you insist that you simply cannot help

spreading the Vedic knowledge, you would still admit that till the right

people are born, no one would really appreciate all this?

 

 

Das Writes in response:

 

I think I answer this fully below. But, not the way you will think

perhaps. One must sidestep the way you are stringing the thoughts and

words above, and approach it another way. The problem lies in your

language and the assumptions encased in the language. You are making

grand assumptions, which are normal, such as "considering that" and "can

be ascertained from"...

 

If you think about it, and ask "Can it REALLY BE ascertained". In other

words, is it ascertainable, or it is theoretically there? This is

poignant, as you shall see.

 

--

 

Enlightenment IS IN one's destiny or not, but it is NOT ascertainable by

any living human fully and confidently **beyond a shadow of a doubt**,

nor is it **deeply understandable** to anyone at all **except oneself**,

and judgement from others is forbidden for them by the rules of

enlightenment that they will be following soon if they are reading

Jyotish, and so, in fact, nobody can actually be sure they know with

Jyotish, even about their own selves, their own enlightenment or not

that is.

 

(remember, another salient true but forgotten point: No impartial panel

of judges can judge what is enlightenment, or who is enlightened, only

someone more enlightened can judge, and they don't... that's part of

being enlightened... so alot of this becomes "impossible", truly, and

remains wholly theoretical alone)

 

So rather, only through their own internal tasting process, will they

know their own enlightenment, and that shall be, they shall be, the one

and only entity to at all confidantly judge their level of

enlightenment. No other halfway enlightened being will ever attempt to

actually, fully, make a final judgement, and no astrologer can

confidantly do so with astrology. And the person themselves, you, me,

the person on the path, how do we judge ourselves, as the one and only

one who can do so? Two ways, never and all, and fully, depending on our

mood, the fact being, if we are serious about bliss, we will do whatever

works to get us there, which may be at times guilt, and at other times

breaking free from connections to responsibility, attachments of any kind...

 

Therefore, the whole field, as far as the enlightenment of each other

goes, it remains therefore an open book yet to be written, and so the

preacher does experience the wonder of "saving" and "spreading" yet in

fact, he knows, as do we all, that all is ordained from "above" through

the energies of the Divine flow.

 

So what you have shown above, is that you have entered unwillingly, the

dark night of the soul. You have gathered enough evidence in your

kshetra to have beyond a sarcastic mood when asking this divine question.

 

The dark night begins when one realizes that they personally are now

feeling the full grip of God on them. Their illusion of separateness is

gone. They ask, 'predeterminism, how can it be?, doesn't that make

everything useless? What's the point?' This leads to a double life while

your mind checks it out, constantly finding it's true. It can be horror.

 

But you have to see carefully- notice exactly what and how much we are

able to actually be "right" in using astrology. Then, note that it's not

enough to prove the theory. Predeterminism remains a theory in fact, but

in fact, we know it's not a theory, because we see enough, that our

subtler inner calculative brains, and therefore our outward opinion, is

that we KNOW that FULL PREDETERMINISM is an obvious fact, it's like, so

obvious to me, completely. I cannot deny it. I see it this way- that

only god is acting, and by the time the waves of his motion reach our

dinky level of his one reality, it's a wave already coming, and we are

swept like it or not, and all life is like those kinds of waves, all

life is a one dance, an all dance, on onelevel, truly.

 

But, note, that is a mental thought. In fact, I cannot tell you FOR

CERTAIN what is going to happen to me EXACTLY in the next 5 minutes or

50 years. It's impossible. You cannot show me anyone who can. I can and

will show them to be wrong, within the first 5 minutes of meeting them,

I guarantee it.

 

There is too much inability on our parts to see the details.

 

So to review, the points so far are simple:

 

1. Predertminism is an infered belief we have very solidly (me at least)

2. But we cannot make that a functional machine for ourselves

3. Therefore in fact we do not know the future, but it is known, to Him

4. We can perceive this duality

 

You are perceiving this apparent duality. How can, it be both, you

think. It can. Try to see it.

 

You are only a perceiver. You are only a witness. If you think carefully

on it, you cannot control anything, because you, the consciousness, have

no string to anything here. You cannot tell me you have an anchor to

your heart, that when you die you will pull and you won't be able to

leave, God won't be able to kill you, and you will stay, because of your

anchor to your body.

 

No, in fact, you have no control over your body at all, what to speak of

this world it touches. You are only a witness.

 

Then, if you cannot know the future for certain, then as a witness only,

it remains a startling, or ghastly, or pleasurable, movie or ride you

must take while encased inside a plastic flesh body ride vehicle bound

for bodily destruction at the end of the ride.

 

You do not know where you came from, or where you're going, for certain,

as a conscious entity. You are fully out of control, fully scared if

scared, and that's a fairly wise place to start.

 

After realizing all of the above, and seeing Jyotish, one realizes that

the control is our friend. If it were not there, imagine the mind of an

intelligent person. Certainly then suicide seems more reasonable.

 

But no, Jyoish shows the enlightened that in fact there is a Supreme

oneness, and that it is not at all our faults, what goes on here,

because indeed, how can we be responsible for that which we cannot control.

 

But God obviously wants us to watch these movies, and learn the lessons.

The intelligent observer, Vedicly trained mind, can live in either of

the two main realities that become available once your are Vedicly

aware. You can and must slip in and out of them as needed in modern times.

 

With family and others non-Vedic, you are the meat body they expect you

to be. With yourself and totally aware beings, you can be a soul in a

body, and on that level, you need not cater to the ego of each others

bodies, and you can instead talk, act and live indeed as kindred spirits

sharing the same physical plane and dealing with it for health and least

hassle, maximizing spirit consciousness, for more pleasure really

ultimately, and less trouble.

 

So these different mental realities flow fourth from the emotional

advancement of the jiva witness inside the body. Most people are not

ready for enlightenment, mainly because their awareness of what they are

attracted to balanced against the glaring truth of pain and death in

this world is amazingly, still tilted such that they are more often

aware of the glitter of their sensory objects than the roar of the moans

of the pain of all sentient beings from the torments of material life.

 

But over time the pain of life after life of the same old hassles builds

up and in time the plan is that the bodies are born in more mindful

families, more and more, and we find ourselves so mentally advanced that

we can perceive both the material plane as well as the inner spiritual

plane that drives it, and be motivated, driven, overwhelmed, into, out

of, and worried about, both either, singly or simutaneously, and this

can be a headache.

 

But I think we come to a state, a place, through our practices and

trials, where we simply appreciate the moment, whatever it is. We have

to love so basicly, that even in the state of our last weeks of life, we

are amazed like children, as the drip in the IV cable in the hospital,

at the wonder of consciousness itself, at the wonder of saying OM in

one's mind, at the wonder of it's many waves, as the sound unfolds and

modulates in your mind, as your sail down the golden channels of light

beems in the nothingness of your mind that you hear coming from the

phased sound waves you imagine zooming around in the huge space of

nothingness, after everything is failed, dead and gone, nothing

remembered but that, as you die, that level of gratitude, will always

protect the consciousness from woe.

 

So the preacher, and the student, find themselves, in the space of

constant unfoldment. That is the bottom line. God, the one, is unfolding

before your eyes, specifically your part in the one. If it is ghastly

boring, make it special inside your head, playing games with your

consciousness. Get used to playing games, in your head, controlling

consciousness, to control the space, time, kshetra and everything around

you, because it is conscious, but responsive, so it will seem, though it

is not, because as you realize about it, you will find, it knew that,

and you'll find it's ready, because it is in the one you are in, so as

you unfold, it will too, so unfold...

 

Unfold, that is what the preacher is doing. That is why he says it too,

because as you do, so can his world, he is vibrating, you are hearing,

so he is God's voice, and you are responding, that is why Kintu Prabhu

Ya Prya Eva Tasya,

 

Gurudeva is better than God because he is God's voice of mercy coming to

our realm to deliver the higher vibration which feels better, is

lovlier, makes more sense, and so on. Saves us. Yes, it saves us.

 

But truly, nothing is there but God, and he is doing everything, but

through us.

 

So the answer to your question is truly, bother exist, so you can get

into the dance, and out of the dark night, when you accept it that way.

It is a dance. So dance. Unravel, reveal, join God, know the Matrix

responds. Miracles happen in the space created for them.

 

God will reveal himself where he is already seen, in the heart, clearly.

 

Before that, everyone else will part like the Red Sea, before the one

who knows the way of the Matrix, the way of Maya, who is a devotee of

the One. Durga Devia is the energy, of God, that is female, which is the

Earth and all like it, everything energetic in which everything grows

and is done, our mother truly, and she is perfectly holding you,

cradling you forward, in lessons, that we call life, and as the

awareness grows, she sets you free, more and more, when you show you

know how to fly and are a good citizen respecting all the signs and

rules, then you get a license to fly from her.

 

Fly on little wing.

 

That is why Sri Caitanya called it "one and different, both". It's the

way it is. It makes life more interesting, to know you are playing a

hide and seek game with God, where you have to try, then he responds,

and he knows everything, but you don't, but he loves you, you find, and

so, it's totally exhilerating. Follow this thought. It hurts badly for

awhile. Then it turns to nectar. What is like poison at first turns to

nectar later.

 

I believe in this train of thought. There may be others that are

otherwise. I trust the scholars I learned from and their sidhanta. It is

a risky one a bit, to some maybe, who have more faith in full or

percentile free will etc. Whatever, in the end, we all fart in the same

air space!

 

And, at the end of the day, remember, I love you, no matter what you

believe, because, why the hell not!?

 

Peace

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

Das Goravani , President

 

2852 Willamette St, #353

Eugene, Oregon, 97405

USA

 

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