Guest guest Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been understood.There is a definite time of conception which is about 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the exact time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position of the moon in the birth chart? For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign ascending on the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not sure if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : >Dear list members, > I have heard that the position of the moon >in >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is it >true? >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would be >the >significance of the conception chart? > best regards, > vivek. >_______ >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India >or >Abroad >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > _______ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2002 Report Share Posted May 11, 2002 Dear Vivek I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. Somewhere in the back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal astrologer, wrote about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also wrote quite a bit about the prenatal eclipse. It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth lagna would match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that perfectly. <great grins> cynthia - Vivek <keviv90 <gjlist> Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM Re: [GJ] is it true? > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is about > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the exact > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position of the > moon in the birth chart? > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign ascending on > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not sure > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > >Dear list members, > > I have heard that the position of the moon > >in > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is it > >true? > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would be > >the > >significance of the conception chart? > > best regards, > > vivek. > >_______ > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India > >or > >Abroad > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2002 Report Share Posted May 11, 2002 Dear Vivek, I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a body is considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that the body beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother nature including planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. Prior to that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily influenced by the mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from the previous life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to the readers. If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT SAT. >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak >gjlist ><gjlist> >Re: [GJ] is it true? >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > >Dear Vivek > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. Somewhere in the >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal astrologer, >wrote >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also wrote quite >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth lagna would >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that perfectly. ><great grins> cynthia > > >- >Vivek <keviv90 ><gjlist> >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is about > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the exact > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position of the > > moon in the birth chart? > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign ascending on > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not sure > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > >Dear list members, > > > I have heard that the position of the moon > > >in > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is it > > >true? > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would be > > >the > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > best regards, > > > vivek. > > >_______ > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India > > >or > > >Abroad > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 DEAR CYNTHIA,--I did not say that the conception lagna and birth lagna match.I said that the conception lagna and birth moon match.I remember reading this somewhere -- --VIVEK. On Sat, 11 May 2002 cynthia novak wrote : >Dear Vivek > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. Somewhere >in the >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal >astrologer, wrote >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also >wrote quite >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth >lagna would >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that >perfectly. ><great grins> cynthia > > >- > Vivek <keviv90 ><gjlist> >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is >about > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the >exact > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position of >the > > moon in the birth chart? > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign ascending >on > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not >sure > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > >Dear list members, > > > I have heard that the position of the >moon > > >in > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is >it > > >true? > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would >be > > >the > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > best regards, > > > vivek. > > >_______ > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in >India > > >or > > >Abroad > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Did I say that birth is exactly so many days from conception? I don't remember writing anything like that. Please read my message again and try to understand what exactly I meant.---vivek. On Sun, 12 May 2002 Denise Notley wrote : >Vivek, > >Babies are born prematurely all the time, as well as late. (What >is it now? >26 or 28 weeks from assumed conception, and they can survive >outside the >womb? But not well--likely to be handicapped in some ways..) > >Also there IS no standard time on how long it takes for spermazoa >to reach >and eg..depends a great deal on the interior conditions, dear..if >the woman >is in a highly fertile stage, it's a matter of minutes before >conception >takes place, then a couple of days for the egg to reach the >uterus and >emplant. Sperm can remain in the vagina for as long as eight >days before >the egg is released and then take off...it's not the usual >thing, >nessesarily, but it's physically possible...Usually they die >faster than >that, due to the woman's ph..So for someone to postulate that >every birth is >exactly so many days from conception is erroneous. It's only an >average. > >Best Wishes, >Denise > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 If karma manifests only after birth(when the umblical cord is cut),what have you got to say about abortion, where the child is murdered in the womb itself? Anyway all this has nothing to do with what I had asked. You have not understood the question itself.--vivek. On Sun, 12 May 2002 fas fas wrote : >Dear Vivek, > >I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a >body is >considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that >the body >beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother >nature including >planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. >Prior to >that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily >influenced by the >mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from >the previous >life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to >the readers. >If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT >SAT. > > > >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak > >gjlist > ><gjlist> > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > > > >Dear Vivek > > > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. >Somewhere in the > >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal >astrologer, > >wrote > >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also >wrote quite > >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > > > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth >lagna would > >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that >perfectly. > ><great grins> cynthia > > > > > >- > >Vivek <keviv90 > ><gjlist> > >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is >about > > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the >exact > > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position >of the > > > moon in the birth chart? > > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign >ascending on > > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not >sure > > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > > >Dear list members, > > > > I have heard that the position of the >moon > > > >in > > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is >it > > > >true? > > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would >be > > > >the > > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > > best regards, > > > > vivek. > > > >_______ > > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in >India > > > >or > > > >Abroad > > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > >: > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Vyam Vysadevaya Namah ------------------ Dear Vivek, I was taught that its Jamna Moon is in Kendra to Adhana Moon. Also Jamna Lagna is in 7th from Adhana Lagna.. why? because 7th shows the doorway. Yes the Adhana Chart should give a MUCH clearer picture of the Karma inherited. Best wishes, Visti. > If karma manifests only after birth(when the umblical cord is > cut),what have you got to say about abortion, > where the child is murdered in the womb itself? > Anyway all this has nothing to do with what I had asked. > You have not understood the question itself.--vivek. > > On Sun, 12 May 2002 fas fas wrote : > >Dear Vivek, > > > >I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a > >body is > >considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that > >the body > >beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother > >nature including > >planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. > >Prior to > >that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily > >influenced by the > >mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from > >the previous > >life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to > >the readers. > >If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT > >SAT. > > > > > > >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak > > >gjlist > > ><gjlist> > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > > > > > >Dear Vivek > > > > > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. > >Somewhere in the > > >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal > >astrologer, > > >wrote > > >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also > >wrote quite > > >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > > > > > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth > >lagna would > > >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that > >perfectly. > > ><great grins> cynthia > > > > > > > > >- > > >Vivek <keviv90 > > ><gjlist> > > >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > > > > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is > >about > > > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the > >exact > > > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position > >of the > > > > moon in the birth chart? > > > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign > >ascending on > > > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not > >sure > > > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > > > >Dear list members, > > > > > I have heard that the position of the > >moon > > > > >in > > > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception-- -is > >it > > > > >true? > > > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would > >be > > > > >the > > > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > > > best regards, > > > > > vivek. > > > > >_______ > > > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > >India > > > > >or > > > > >Abroad > > > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > >: > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Yes, it is true that the life does begin at the conception and the abortion is murdered, no doubt? But the karma only manifests in the gross material body when it develops and comes out of the womb. To enjoy or to suffer, the living entity must have a gross body and then only the law of karma takes place. If there is no gross body available to that living entity, all the karmas are stored in the chakras which are carried by the subtle body of that entity. I am just trying to answer according to the flow of the question. Thanks again for reading my comments..... Regards.......Amar. >"Vivek " <keviv90 >gjlist >gjlist >Re: Re: [GJ] is it true? >12 May 2002 07:53:40 -0000 > >If karma manifests only after birth(when the umblical cord is >cut),what have you got to say about abortion, >where the child is murdered in the womb itself? >Anyway all this has nothing to do with what I had asked. >You have not understood the question itself.--vivek. > >On Sun, 12 May 2002 fas fas wrote : > >Dear Vivek, > > > >I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a > >body is > >considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that > >the body > >beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother > >nature including > >planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. > >Prior to > >that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily > >influenced by the > >mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from > >the previous > >life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to > >the readers. > >If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT > >SAT. > > > > > > >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak > > >gjlist > > ><gjlist> > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > > > > > >Dear Vivek > > > > > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. > >Somewhere in the > > >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal > >astrologer, > > >wrote > > >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also > >wrote quite > > >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > > > > > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth > >lagna would > > >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that > >perfectly. > > ><great grins> cynthia > > > > > > > > >- > > >Vivek <keviv90 > > ><gjlist> > > >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > > > > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is > >about > > > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the > >exact > > > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position > >of the > > > > moon in the birth chart? > > > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign > >ascending on > > > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not > >sure > > > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > > > >Dear list members, > > > > > I have heard that the position of the > >moon > > > > >in > > > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is > >it > > > > >true? > > > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would > >be > > > > >the > > > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > > > best regards, > > > > > vivek. > > > > >_______ > > > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > >India > > > > >or > > > > >Abroad > > > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > >: > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > >India or > > > > Abroad > > > > http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > : > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > >_______ >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or >Abroad >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Hare Krishna, If I have understood the discussion, there are two completely different queries. 1)From Vivek:Is the moon sign during the time of conception the same as the moon sign when the baby is born? In my humble opinion, this is very difficult to determine as the time of conception in most cases is very difficult to arrive at.Even among cases where the couple have followed vedic samskaras and have engaged in procreation on a day and time thats very identifiable, the time of conception is very difficult to arrive at, because there is a 72 hr period within which this can take place after the act. But that shouldnt pose a problem in arriving at astrological conclusions because, its my belief that our seers have written/spoken trhe rules with regard to inhalation or prana of air by the living entity. I remember reading that the time or kala is broken down from Maha Dasa, Bukthi,ANtara etc. right down to one inhalation or exhalation. If that is the case then our seers were definitely referring to a living entity that is independent of its mothers womb. 2)Does a living entity start enjoying or suffering Karma from the conception or is it only after the severing of the umbilical cord? The second topic is a lot easier as there is direct scriptural reference.The Sri Srimad Bhagvatham has extensively discussed the life or Karma of the living entity within the womb, in Lord Kapila's discourses to His mother Devahuti. From the discussion one can understand that the living entity is conscious within the womb and being helplessly held in the most uncomfortable foetal position, bitten by different worms, and yet helpless.The living entity then prays to the Supreme Personality of Godhead begging for mercy and forgivance and requesting that he/she not be thrust into the material world again or atleast would lead a life that can bring the person back to Godhead.But, the force of the process of human birth is such that all memory of this suffering is lost and we as living entities forget all our past suffering and indulge in sense gratification again and yet again. So, the suffering of the living entity starts right from the time of conception.Even pregnancies can be influenced by the Karma of the unborn child, if not how does one explain abortions? But in my humble opinion vedic astrology deals with the Karma of the living entity after they take their first breath of air. Please feel free to comment or crticise my opinion. Hare Krishna Sudhar gjlist, "fas fas" <foreignersassistance@h...> wrote: > Yes, it is true that the life does begin at the conception and the abortion > is murdered, no doubt? But the karma only manifests in the gross material > body when it develops and comes out of the womb. To enjoy or to suffer, the > living entity must have a gross body and then only the law of karma takes > place. If there is no gross body available to that living entity, all the > karmas are stored in the chakras which are carried by the subtle body of > that entity. I am just trying to answer according to the flow of the > question. Thanks again for reading my comments..... Regards.......Amar. > > > >"Vivek " <keviv90@r...> > >gjlist > >gjlist > >Re: Re: [GJ] is it true? > >12 May 2002 07:53:40 -0000 > > > >If karma manifests only after birth(when the umblical cord is > >cut),what have you got to say about abortion, > >where the child is murdered in the womb itself? > >Anyway all this has nothing to do with what I had asked. > >You have not understood the question itself.--vivek. > > > >On Sun, 12 May 2002 fas fas wrote : > > >Dear Vivek, > > > > > >I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a > > >body is > > >considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that > > >the body > > >beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother > > >nature including > > >planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. > > >Prior to > > >that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily > > >influenced by the > > >mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from > > >the previous > > >life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to > > >the readers. > > >If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT > > >SAT. > > > > > > > > > >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak@w...> > > > >gjlist > > > ><gjlist> > > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > > > > > > > >Dear Vivek > > > > > > > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. > > >Somewhere in the > > > >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal > > >astrologer, > > > >wrote > > > >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also > > >wrote quite > > > >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > > > > > > > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth > > >lagna would > > > >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that > > >perfectly. > > > ><great grins> cynthia > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > >Vivek <keviv90@r...> > > > ><gjlist> > > > >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM > > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > > > > > > > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > > > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is > > >about > > > > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the > > >exact > > > > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > > > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position > > >of the > > > > > moon in the birth chart? > > > > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > > > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign > > >ascending on > > > > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > > > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not > > >sure > > > > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > > > > >Dear list members, > > > > > > I have heard that the position of the > > >moon > > > > > >in > > > > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is > > >it > > > > > >true? > > > > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would > > >be > > > > > >the > > > > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > > > > best regards, > > > > > > vivek. > > > > > >_______ > > > > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > > >India > > > > > >or > > > > > >Abroad > > > > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > > >: > > > > > >gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > > Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > > >India or > > > > > Abroad > > > > > http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > > : > > >gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > >: > > >gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________ > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______ > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or > >Abroad > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > _______________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Dear Sudhar prabhu, Thank you very much for your informative comments which is highly appreciated. With best regards.....Amar.... Hare Bol...OM TAT SAT. >"sudhar108" <sudhar108 >gjlist >gjlist >Re: [GJ] is it true? >Sun, 12 May 2002 16:50:19 -0000 > >Hare Krishna, >If I have understood the discussion, there are two completely >different queries. >1)From Vivek:Is the moon sign during the time of conception the same >as the moon sign when the baby is born? >In my humble opinion, this is very difficult to determine as the time >of conception in most cases is very difficult to arrive at.Even among >cases where the couple have followed vedic samskaras and have engaged >in procreation on a day and time thats very identifiable, the time of >conception is very difficult to arrive at, because there is a 72 hr >period within which this can take place after the act. > >But that shouldnt pose a problem in arriving at astrological >conclusions because, its my belief that our seers have written/spoken >trhe rules with regard to inhalation or prana of air by the living >entity. I remember reading that the time or kala is broken down from >Maha Dasa, Bukthi,ANtara etc. right down to one inhalation or >exhalation. If that is the case then our seers were definitely >referring to a living entity that is independent of its mothers womb. > >2)Does a living entity start enjoying or suffering Karma from the >conception or is it only after the severing of the umbilical cord? >The second topic is a lot easier as there is direct scriptural >reference.The Sri Srimad Bhagvatham has extensively discussed the >life or Karma of the living entity within the womb, in Lord Kapila's >discourses to His mother Devahuti. From the discussion one can >understand that the living entity is conscious within the womb and >being helplessly held in the most uncomfortable foetal position, >bitten by different worms, and yet helpless.The living entity then >prays to the Supreme Personality of Godhead begging for mercy and >forgivance and requesting that he/she not be thrust into the material >world again or atleast would lead a life that can bring the person >back to Godhead.But, the force of the process of human birth is such >that all memory of this suffering is lost and we as living entities >forget all our past suffering and indulge in sense gratification >again and yet again. >So, the suffering of the living entity starts right from the time of >conception.Even pregnancies can be influenced by the Karma of the >unborn child, if not how does one explain abortions? > >But in my humble opinion vedic astrology deals with the Karma of the >living entity after they take their first breath of air. > >Please feel free to comment or crticise my opinion. > >Hare Krishna > >Sudhar > > > > > > > > > > > >gjlist, "fas fas" <foreignersassistance@h...> wrote: > > Yes, it is true that the life does begin at the conception and the >abortion > > is murdered, no doubt? But the karma only manifests in the gross >material > > body when it develops and comes out of the womb. To enjoy or to >suffer, the > > living entity must have a gross body and then only the law of karma >takes > > place. If there is no gross body available to that living entity, >all the > > karmas are stored in the chakras which are carried by the subtle >body of > > that entity. I am just trying to answer according to the flow of >the > > question. Thanks again for reading my comments..... >Regards.......Amar. > > > > > > >"Vivek " <keviv90@r...> > > >gjlist > > >gjlist > > >Re: Re: [GJ] is it true? > > >12 May 2002 07:53:40 -0000 > > > > > >If karma manifests only after birth(when the umblical cord is > > >cut),what have you got to say about abortion, > > >where the child is murdered in the womb itself? > > >Anyway all this has nothing to do with what I had asked. > > >You have not understood the question itself.--vivek. > > > > > >On Sun, 12 May 2002 fas fas wrote : > > > >Dear Vivek, > > > > > > > >I read it in the (scripture) Srimadbhagvatam that the birth of a > > > >body is > > > >considered when the emblic cord is cut. That is the time that > > > >the body > > > >beocmes independent and falls under the influence of mother > > > >nature including > > > >planets. An other words that is the time the karma manifests. > > > >Prior to > > > >that, the body is still in the womb of the mother heavily > > > >influenced by the > > > >mother's internal enviornment. Thus, the body's own karma from > > > >the previous > > > >life are in dormant stage. I hope that it makes some sense to > > > >the readers. > > > >If not, please accept my appology and disregard it. OM TAT > > > >SAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > >"cynthia novak" <c.a.novak@w...> > > > > >gjlist > > > > ><gjlist> > > > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > >Sat, 11 May 2002 09:41:19 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >Dear Vivek > > > > > > > > > >I have not read anything like this is Vedic astrology. > > > >Somewhere in the > > > > >back of my memory I do recall that Cyril Fagan, a sidereal > > > >astrologer, > > > > >wrote > > > > >about the conception chart. I might be wrong. I think he also > > > >wrote quite > > > > >a bit about the prenatal eclipse. > > > > > > > > > >It does not seem likely that the conception lagna and the birth > > > >lagna would > > > > >match exactly. I have not seen anything in life to work that > > > >perfectly. > > > > ><great grins> cynthia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > > >Vivek <keviv90@r...> > > > > ><gjlist> > > > > >Friday, May 10, 2002 10:40 PM > > > > >Re: [GJ] is it true? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > > > > > > understood.There is a definite time of conception which is > > > >about > > > > > > 280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the > > > >exact > > > > > > time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > > > > > > ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position > > > >of the > > > > > > moon in the birth chart? > > > > > > For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > > > > > > scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign > > > >ascending on > > > > > > the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > > > > > > -------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not > > > >sure > > > > > > if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > > > > > >Dear list members, > > > > > > > I have heard that the position of the > > > >moon > > > > > > >in > > > > > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is > > > >it > > > > > > >true? > > > > > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would > > > >be > > > > > > >the > > > > > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > > > > vivek. > > > > > > >_______ > > > > > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > > > >India > > > > > > >or > > > > > > >Abroad > > > > > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > > > > >: > > > > > > >gjlist-@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Greetings, dear members, my first version of this letter disappeared in land - here one more time.... yes, the idea of a conception chart is intriguing. I did play around with my data and got a puzzling result. Trusting the GJ program given fact, that average pregnancy is 273 days - i entered suggested day of conception. My mother told me, that i was conceived in a rowboat:) - i reasoned therefore that early evening on a balmy summerday might have been a good time for close intimacy. Amazing. Libra lagna, Moon degrees are fairly close. How can that be? Lucky guess? Coincidence? Wishful faulty thinking? Besides the spiritual aspect, there is for sure some astronomical explanation, why lagna and moon are in same (close) position after nine month - but my brain is simply not big enough to even attempt figuring that one out. CONCEPTION CHART - Libra lagna 22 deg - Moon 3 deg. 06/06/1943 18:35:00 PM DST/WT 1 Time Zone 1.00 Potsdam, , Germany Lat. 52 N 24, Long. 13 E 4 Ayanamsa-Lahiri-23:4:13 - 365 days PHYSICAL BIRTH CHART - Libra lagna 21 deg. - Moon 8 deg. March 5/1944 23:30:00, DST/WT 0, Time Zone 1.00 Berlin, Germany, Lat. 52 N 27, Long. 13 E 19 Ayanamsa-Lahiri-23:4:24 - 365 days I hope, i didnt make a complete fool out of myself by presenting the case. Thank you Vivek, for bringing the topic up - i always wanted to know, but was too afraid to ask:) Tidbit for Cynthia - I do have VE/KE conjunction - and did get married in KETU main dasha - not with the very best results:) Blessings to all, Sabine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2002 Report Share Posted May 13, 2002 Dear Vivek - As with all theories which are "all-or-nothing", it would take just one instance to disprove the theory that the chandra lagna is the lagna at conception. Here is one way this can be done. Take the case of identical twins, who are conceived by the single fertilization of a single egg. Typically identical twins are not born simultaneously - sometimes minutes apart. If one can come up with just one instance where a pair of identical twins are born under two different Chandra Lagnas, such as when the Moon changes sign, your theory will be disproved. Just a suggestion. Regards, Charles On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : Dear list members, I have heard that the position of the moon in the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is it true? can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would be the significance of the conception chart? best regards, vivek. _______________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 It is said that for the first four years of life the child lives on the karmas of the mother, for the next four year the child lives on the karmas of the father, the following four years a balancing of karma from previous lives, until the Jupiter return. Then the karma for this incarnation begins at age 12. To do a chart before that is not necessarily recommended. Regards, Don - "Chris Parnell" <chspnll <gjlist> Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:31 PM [GJ] Is it true? > Hello Everyone, > > When does Karma begin? OK, I have a practical example for you > > I was reflecting upon my perception of birth karma commenced with exit from my mothers womb. > > However, I have today recalled that I found out in mid life that my father kicked my mother in the stomach when she was 3 months pregnant with me. > > He was blamed for my resultant deafness, but this was not the case as I now know I carried it over from a previous life. > > Questions: > When did my karma start? > And, if anyone wants to investigate, why was I kicked? > Can that carry-over of deafness be verified? > > > > Him: > 29 September 1929, Brisbane, Australia, natal time unknown > > Me > 3 March 1953, Melbourne, Australia, 1.45pm > > > best regards, > Chris Parnell > Senior Account Development Manager > > -------------------- > Thanks for using Rose City Software products. Be sure to check out our > other award winning products at http://www.RoseCitySoftware.com/ > > > -------------------- > This message is virus free. > It has been scanned with PC-Cillin 2000 (www.antivirus.com) > Realtime Scan Engine 5.450.0.1002 Virus Pattern 279 > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > >Dear Sudhar > > > >you > ><<But in my humble opinion vedic astrology deals with the Karma of the > >living entity after they take their first breath of air.>> > > > >me > >Vedic astrology deals with the horoscope taken for the time when the > >umbilical cord is cut and not from the time taken from the first breath of > >air. > > > >I have read somewhere that the time for the conception can be taken as > >well into consideration. However, in this Kali Yuga it is almost > >impossible to follow or to know those regulations. > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2002 Report Share Posted May 15, 2002 Dear Vivek: Regarding "proving things" according to your interpretation - If you admit that Jyotish is not an empirical science where you do research and "prove" things, what is the point of your whole argument? How can you tell that your are not deluding yourself with some preconceived notion you have assimilated? Here's one I just made up - "I believe a person's sun sign at conception to be the moon sign at death." IMHO, Jyotish is in fact a fairly accurate science with lots of empirical value. CP >"Vivek " <keviv90 >gjlist >gjlist >[GJ] is it true? >15 May 2002 04:07:20 -0000 > >DEAR LIST MEMBERS,---I am surprised that so many people >misinterpreted my question.It seems that many people do not know >the distinction between LAGNA and MOON. >LAGNA is the sign ascending on the eastern horizon.It is > calculated using the concept of sidereal time. >MOON is the planet(or satellite of earth in astronomy) > which governs mind,mother,etc. >What exactly I meant is---- > LAGNA at conception=POSITION OF MOON at birth. >FOR EXAMPLE-- > AT THE TIME OF CONCEPTION > LAGNA 21'19 degrees saggitarius > moon 09'43 degrees cancer > > AT THE TIME OF BIRTH > lagna 15'14 degrees aries > MOON 21'19 degrees saggitarius > >I DID NOT MEAN THE FOLLOWING--- >(1) lagna is the same at the time of conception and birth >(2) the moon is at the same position at CONCEPTION and > BIRTH. >(3) The time between conception and birth is fixed and > exact in all cases.It does not vary. >(4) Karma applies from the time of conception. >(5) karma applies from the time of birth. >EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT MEAN ANY OF THE ABOVE,THIS IS HOW SOME >MEMBERS OF THE LIST INTERPRETED MY QUESTION.THE PROBLEM IS THAT >THE DISCUSSION SHIFTED TO OTHER TOPICS AND THE ORIGINAL QUESTION >DISAPPEARED. >Someone also asked--how can the exact time of conception be >proven?-----I did not even say that the exact time can be found >out.I just said that two things coincide. >REGARDING PROVING THINGS---vedic astrology is not an empirical >science where you do research and prove things. > It is transcendental knowledge or a divine science which has to >be accepted.---the eight house in a horoscope governs >longevity(everyone knows this) but can you prove it? >The original question is below.I hope someone can throw more light >on my question. >WITH BEST WISHES,VIVEK. > >On Sat, 11 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > >DEAR LIST MEMBERS--It seems my question has not been > >understood.There is a definite time of conception which is > >about > >280 days prior to birth.If one were to take into account the > >exact > >time and place of this conception and find the lagna(sign > >ascending on the east),--will it coincide with the position of > >the > >moon in the birth chart? > >For example---in my horoscope,the moon is at 3'15 degrees > >scorpio.therefore at the time of conception,the sign ascending > >on > >the east was 3'15 degrees scorpio. > >-------I remember reading this somewhere long back.I am not > >sure > >if it is true or not.----REGARDS,VIVEK. > > > >On Sun, 05 May 2002 Vivek wrote : > > >Dear list members, > > > I have heard that the position of the > >moon > > >in > > >the birth chart is the lagna at the time of conception---is > >it > > >true? > > >can the time of conception be calculated?--if so,what would > >be > > >the > > >significance of the conception chart? > > > best regards, > > > vivek. > > >_______ > > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in > >India > > >or > > >Abroad > > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______ > >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India > >or > >Abroad > >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > >_______ >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or >Abroad >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2002 Report Share Posted May 15, 2002 There is a book that I found in a used bookstore several years ago that gives techniques to find the time of conception. "The Prenatal Epoch" Author E.H. Bailey Published 1916 reprinted 1974 ISBN 0-87728-010-X1 Library of Congress C.C. # 74-16458. I would have to, and may, reread it to remember what was written. Skimming I did find this list - 1 - Moon at birth incresing in light, it will be the ascending degree at the epoch and the moon at the epoch will be the degree ascending at birth 2 - Moon at birth decreasing in light, it will be the descending degree at the epoch and the moon at the epoch will be the degree descending at birth. 3 - Moon increasing and below earth or decreasing and above the earth, period of gestation will be longer than the norm. 4 - Moon increasing and above the earth or decreasing and below the earth, the period of gestation will be shorter than the norm. Margaret gjlist, "Vivek " <keviv90@r...> wrote: > DEAR LIST MEMBERS,---I am surprised that so many people > misinterpreted my question.It seems that many people do not know > the distinction between LAGNA and MOON. > LAGNA is the sign ascending on the eastern horizon.It is > calculated using the concept of sidereal time. > MOON is the planet(or satellite of earth in astronomy) > which governs mind,mother,etc. > What exactly I meant is---- > LAGNA at conception=POSITION OF MOON at birth. > FOR EXAMPLE-- > AT THE TIME OF CONCEPTION > LAGNA 21'19 degrees saggitarius > moon 09'43 degrees cancer > > AT THE TIME OF BIRTH > lagna 15'14 degrees aries > MOON 21'19 degrees saggitarius > > I DID NOT MEAN THE FOLLOWING--- > (1) lagna is the same at the time of conception and birth > (2) the moon is at the same position at CONCEPTION and > BIRTH. > (3) The time between conception and birth is fixed and > exact in all cases.It does not vary. > (4) Karma applies from the time of conception. > (5) karma applies from the time of birth. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 DEAR CHARLES---Empirical means ascending process ,where you do research,experiment,and form theories backed by experimental proof. Here you require proof first--then you accept. In vedic astrology,the process is descending--that is you have to first accept the whole thing with faith without asking for proof. Now,if an empirical scientist were told to learn astrology---He would immediately ask--(1)what proof is there that the sun is the indicator of soul and moon,mind? (2)why should I accept that certain houses have certain traits? (3)what basis do you have for vimshottari dasha? SHOW ME THE PROOF--ONLY THEN CAN I ACCEPT. It is only after learning the whole thing without questioning--and then applying it,you realise that it works.THUS ASTROLOGY IS NOT AN EMPIRICAL SCIENCE. REGARDS,VIVEK. On Wed, 15 May 2002 Charles Patirana wrote : >Dear Vivek: > >Regarding "proving things" according to your interpretation - If >you admit >that Jyotish is not an empirical science where you do research >and "prove" >things, what is the point of your whole argument? How can you >tell that your >are not deluding yourself with some preconceived notion you >have >assimilated? Here's one I just made up - "I believe a person's >sun sign at >conception to be the moon sign at death." > >IMHO, Jyotish is in fact a fairly accurate science with l _______ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 Dear Vivek ~ you wrote: Empirical means ascending process The word Grace more accurately reflects your definition of ascending process. I was genuinely surprised to see the word Empirical in it's place. Perhaps it could be so, but only in the purest sense of the word. I am enjoying this particular thread of discussion. Thank you Vivek, Cynthia, Chris, Denise and everyone whom I have not mentioned for your contributions to the List. Warmly ~ Chandra Devi ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 Dear Vivek, Whether Jyotish is an empirical science or not is a moot point. My drift though, is a concern about polluting the field with false views by their acceptance on mere faith. You claimed in your initial post that you had learned that the moon sign at birth is the lagna at conception. Throughout the subsequent posts by yourself and other list-members, it became more than evident that you wanted some degree of affirmation in your views. However, just because the majority agrees or disagrees with a viewpoint does not make it correct. This incidentally, is the principal failing of many theistic faiths. There's a famous anecdote involving Albert Einstein and the Nazi regime that illustrates this as well. Since Einstein was Jewish, his views on relativity were persecuted by the Nazis. Hitler convened a conference of some 100 Nazi scientists to disprove Einstein's theory. Einstein shrugged it off, and responded laughingly that if he were wrong, just one scientist would be sufficient to disprove his views. I proposed a logical method to test your belief by means of a twin study. If there is in fact a situation where your belief fails, would you still argue that it is 100% true? That's like what Ptolemy did with his geocentric view of the universe - trying to use ever more complicated systems of epicycles and so on to account for planetary motion, when in fact he was wrong from the outset - the planets revolve around the sun - not the earth. Are you willing to accept that your views might be wrong and that you could be in fact deluding yourself? Charles >"Vivek " <keviv90 >gjlist >gjlist >Re: Re: [GJ] is it true? >16 May 2002 07:57:12 -0000 > >DEAR CHARLES---Empirical means ascending process ,where you do >research,experiment,and form theories backed by experimental >proof. Here you require proof first--then you accept. >In vedic astrology,the process is descending--that is you have to >first accept the whole thing with faith without asking for >proof. >Now,if an empirical scientist were told to learn astrology---He >would immediately ask--(1)what proof is there that the sun is the >indicator of soul and moon,mind? (2)why should I accept that >certain houses have certain traits? (3)what basis do you have for >vimshottari dasha? SHOW ME THE PROOF--ONLY THEN CAN I ACCEPT. >It is only after learning the whole thing without questioning--and >then applying it,you realise that it works.THUS ASTROLOGY IS NOT >AN EMPIRICAL SCIENCE. > REGARDS,VIVEK. > >On Wed, 15 May 2002 Charles Patirana wrote : > >Dear Vivek: > > > >Regarding "proving things" according to your interpretation - If > >you admit > >that Jyotish is not an empirical science where you do research > >and "prove" > >things, what is the point of your whole argument? How can you > >tell that your > >are not deluding yourself with some preconceived notion you > >have > >assimilated? Here's one I just made up - "I believe a person's > >sun sign at > >conception to be the moon sign at death." > > > >IMHO, Jyotish is in fact a fairly accurate science with l >_______ >Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or >Abroad >http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2002 Report Share Posted May 17, 2002 Dear Deni I can't really answer your question about other statisticians. I haven't talked to him about it for some time. As I recall, the crux of it lies in this question: "Does the person who is looking have something in particular in mind to find?" If the answer is yes then the search may well be biased. I know that G,. searched the charts of famous actors and athletes. Then, he compared them to the "average" person. The issues would be how did he determine the "average" person, etc. Again, I don't claim to speak for all statisticians. I toyed for a time with actually doing a statistically sound questionnaire / survey but the time that would take would be huge. I still claim that it would be easiest to do this with merely a birth date by using the Sun and transits by Saturn and the outer planet transits. There would be key questions built into a rather general questionnaire and it could be rather easy to compare the answers made by someone who has Saturn transiting his Sun to those who do not. Likewise, there are characteristics of Neptune, Uranus and Pluto transits to the Sun that you can pretty much take to the bank. This would avoid the likelihood of having a wrong time of birth given, simply to fill in the blank. To be valid you would need to do a large survey of a cross-section of the population. 1000 people of differing ages, sexes, education etc. Well, you get the idea. This would be huge and the questions would need to be written clearly so the person answering did not feel that there was a right or wrong answer, I forget how many questions there needs to be for it to be valuable. The whole point to to keep the questionnaire unbiased while surveying to see what you get. To simply look at the chart of folks who come to astrologers already has a built in bias. Are you eyes crosssing yet? Mine are so this is why I never did it. If anyone out there is interested in taking up the cause you may use my idea just let me know what you find. In the meantime I have my newsletter to write and clients to see and my rose garden keeps seducing me out the door. c - Denise Notley <venerablebede <gjlist> Friday, May 17, 2002 12:08 PM [GJ] Is it true? > > Dear Cynthia: > > I 'm glad the discussion didn't go into venom either. No need for that is > there? > > Interesting what your husband the statician had to say about Gauquelin's > research being tainted...I can't remember which is inverted logic and which > is the other branch of it--deductive? logic? > > > Something about God is Love, Love is Blind, Stevie Wonder Is blind, so > Stevie Wonder is God, kind of thinking...I'm trying to ask here, if what > your husband said about Gauquelin being influenced by knowing these folks > occupation already therefore biasing what he found would be looked at the > same way by other staticians....I'm clueless on it, just wondering . I know > they have standard formulas they use, but always the same angles of vison, > too? Like I said, I'm clueless. > > ------------------- > Dear Chandra Devi: > > Glad you're enjoying the discussion, even if I'm not sure why..whatever > keeps one's feather's nice and fluffy. > > > --------------------------- > > Dear Chris Parnell, > > Wow! What a tale you have to tell, not that it's necessarily going to come > out on this discussion line...As a priest, who was your flock, since you > were deaf? Are you stone deaf, then? Did you only or largely deal with the > deaf community, or everyone who was Catholic? > > So many people who come from a Catholic tradition and become Hindu have such > an intense dislike for the Catholic Chirch afterward..did this happen to you > as well? I came from a Catholic tradition too, but I don't hate the > church--probably b/c I had more dealing and exposure to the down side of > Protestant fundementalism than to Catholic conservatism in my life, so far. > About the closest I've come to anything regarding it, is that I still like > to read Andrew Greeley novels of the "perfect" Irish Catholic world in the > US...Nice stories about God is love, rather than "where's the switch to thre > trap door the nun's keep telling the kids about.." > > Which branch of Hinduism did yo go into? I remember reading of one Indian > -origin Catholic priest in India recently who became Hindu. He had said he > was viewing so much corruption in the heirarchy of the Catholic Church there > in India and combined with his personal views, he became a Hindu, like his > ancestors....<sigh> Somehow, and from what I hear too, Catholics don't hold > the exclusive "right" to corruption. No one does, really. > > Truly Best Wishes To You All, > > Denise > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2002 Report Share Posted May 18, 2002 statician had to say about Gauquelin's research being tainted...I can't remember which is inverted logic and which is the other branch of it--deductive? logic? If anyone wishes to examine the Gauquelin findings, a good start might be at the following website: Gauquelin Sectors (if it doesn't show as an underlined link, try cut and paste with the following address) http://www.cd-b.com/gauquelin_sectors.htm Happy day to all! Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 well his research was bad and my guru shri k n rao has written many aticles explaning how he was wrong and what was bad in his horoscope .and he also has discussed his horoscope do look in shri k n rao books deepak singh On Sun, 19 May 2002 Carolhook wrote : >In a message dated 5/17/2002 1:10:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >venerablebede writes: > > statician had to say about Gauquelin's > > research being tainted...I can't remember which is inverted >logic and which > > is the other branch of it--deductive? logic? > > If anyone wishes to examine the Gauquelin findings, a good >start might be >at the following website: <A >HREF="http://www.cd-b.com/gauquelin_sectors.htm">Gauquelin >Sectors</A> > >(if it doesn't show as an underlined link, try cut and paste with >the >following address) >http://www.cd-b.com/gauquelin_sectors.htm > >Happy day to all! > Carol _______ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 Deepak, ....You're saying KN Rao said that Gauquelin's research was off? Can you remember in what books? Mr. Rao has certainly facinated me... Did you attend his school in Dehli, then? --------------------------- Carol, Thanks for the Gauquelin website!!! --------------------------- Cynthia, As I wrote to you yesterday, you have a well done website. It's good to see the monthly transits listed and the information written about them.. All the best, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 yes he had said it , asfor the book i dont remember now but do one thing write a a mail to rao sir he will give you a reply his memory is really great .in his class i used to trouble him a lot by my questions from his book and he use to give his reply there and then , and i use to shift from one book to another. yes did it from delhi deepak On Mon, 20 May 2002 Denise Notley wrote : >Deepak, > >...You're saying KN Rao said that Gauquelin's research was off? >Can you >remember in what books? Mr. Rao has certainly facinated me... > >Did you attend his school in Dehli, then? >--------------------------- >Carol, > >Thanks for the Gauquelin website!!! >--------------------------- >Cynthia, > >As I wrote to you yesterday, you have a well done website. It's >good to see >the monthly transits listed and the information written about >them.. > >All the best, > >D > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > _______ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 Hello Margaret, I would like to know more about this. regards,vivek. On Wed, 15 May 2002 mltrwt wrote : >There is a book that I found in a used bookstore several years >ago >that gives techniques to find the time of conception. > >"The Prenatal Epoch" >Author E.H. Bailey >Published 1916 >reprinted 1974 > >ISBN 0-87728-010-X1 >Library of Congress C.C. # 74-16458. > >I would have to, and may, reread it to remember what was >written. >Skimming I did find this list - > >1 - Moon at birth incresing in light, it will be the ascending >degree >at the epoch and the moon at the epoch will be the degree >ascending >at birth > >2 - Moon at birth decreasing in light, it will be the >descending >degree at the epoch and the moon at the epoch will be the >degree >descending at birth. > >3 - Moon increasing and below earth or decreasing and above the >earth, period of gestation will be longer than the norm. > >4 - Moon increasing and above the earth or decreasing and below >the >earth, the period of gestation will be shorter than the norm. > >Margaret > > >gjlist, "Vivek " <keviv90@r...> wrote: > > DEAR LIST MEMBERS,---I am surprised that so many people > > misinterpreted my question.It seems that many people do not >know > > the distinction between LAGNA and MOON. > > LAGNA is the sign ascending on the eastern horizon.It is > > calculated using the concept of sidereal time. > > MOON is the planet(or satellite of earth in astronomy) > > which governs mind,mother,etc. > > What exactly I meant is---- > > LAGNA at conception=POSITION OF MOON at birth. > > FOR EXAMPLE-- > > AT THE TIME OF CONCEPTION > > LAGNA 21'19 degrees saggitarius > > moon 09'43 degrees cancer > > > > AT THE TIME OF BIRTH > > lagna 15'14 degrees aries > > MOON 21'19 degrees saggitarius > > > > I DID NOT MEAN THE FOLLOWING--- > > (1) lagna is the same at the time of conception and birth > > (2) the moon is at the same position at CONCEPTION and > > BIRTH. > > (3) The time between conception and birth is fixed and > > exact in all cases.It does not vary. > > (4) Karma applies from the time of conception. > > (5) karma applies from the time of birth. > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > _______ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 If you would like the book, I would be glad to mail it to you. It has just been sitting on my shelf collecting dust - not a good thing for a book. It is a Western book, not Verdic. Please e-mail me at mltrwtastro with where to mail it too if you'd like it. Margaret Terry -- In gjlist, "Vivek " <keviv90@r...> wrote: > Hello Margaret, > I would like to know more about this. > regards,vivek. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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