About Freud and Jung

[Guest guest]

Dear natabara

 

This poses in my mind an interesting synchronicity: Astrology tends to follow

Freud more than it follows Jung.

 

I base this upon the tendency to divide the chart into pieces and so divide the

individual. The notion that intuition is not a part of astrology, and merely

the planetary placements and aspects or yogas are. This to me smacks of

Freudian thought.

 

Jungian astrology would be more archetypal or filled with stories and

association. That is what I love about some practices of Western and Vedic

astrology. Still, many astrologers on both sides of the great divide want to

dissect the person into little pieces with little regard for individual self

development, evolution and certainly no look at self-actualization.

 

I'm going to step in even deeper here and say the teachings of Freud and Jung

are both widely available. It is human nature to reach for the mental format

of division as it is easier to dissect and learn the subject. Where we begin

should not be where we stop.

 

I know astrologers who assume that they know all about the native from the

chart. They likewise assume that the native is not able to evolve from the

tendencies shown in the Rashi and so are Freudian in my understanding of Freud.

 

It comes to mind that Freud would be like the lower chakras and Jung the upper.

Where the delineation ends depends upon the nature of the astrologer.

 

cynthia

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natabara

GJlist

Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:06 AM

[GJ] About Freud and Jung

Hi Cyntha and all.

You have mentioned Freud in your postings. Well, in my opinion, Freud

represents the views of those that control this planet. They wanted Freud's

ideas to be spread and permeate the essence of culture in this human society,

and so far they have been successful when we see the amount of leaders in

society that have a very strong influence from Freud.

There are many people that base their ideas and culture on Freud's theories.

Even among professionals, there are many of them that only know about Freud. I

have heard about mental health professionals that they have heard only about

Freud and not much about Jung, Erich Fromm or others like them.

Below i quote from a very interesting article which i have found in the web pages.

>From "the Mystery of Chance, Jung & Synchronicity by Peter A. Jordan"

"Similarly, Jung discovered the synchronicity within the I Ching also extended

to astrology. In a letter to Freud dated June 12, 1911, he wrote: "My evenings

are taken up largely with astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order to

find a clue to the core of psychological truth. Some remarkable things have

turned up which will certainly appear incredible to you...I dare say that we

shall one day discover in astrology a good deal of knowledge that has been

intuitively projected into the heavens."

Freud was alarmed by Jung's letter. Jung's interest in synchronicity and the

paranormal rankled the strict materialist; he condemned Jung for wallowing in

what he called the "black tide of the mud of occultism." Just two years

earlier, during a visit to Freud in Vienna, Jung had attempted to defend his

beliefs and sparked a heated debate. Freud's skepticism remained calcified as

ever, causing him to dismiss Jung's paranormal leanings, "in terms of so

shallow a positivism," recalls Jung, "that I had difficulty in checking the

sharp retort on the tip of my tongue." A shocking synchronistic event followed.

Jung writes in his memoirs:

While Freud was going on this way, I had a curious sensation. It was as if my

diaphragm were made of iron and were becoming red-hot -- a glowing vault. And

at that moment there was such a loud report in the bookcase, which stood right

next to us, that we both started up in alarm, fearing the thing was going to

topple over on us. I said to Freud: 'There, that is an example of a so-called

catalytic exteriorization phenomenon.' 'Oh come,' he exclaimed. 'That is sheer

bosh.' 'It is not,' I replied. 'You are mistaken, Herr Professor. And to prove

my point I now predict that in a moment there will be another such loud report!

'Sure enough, no sooner had I said the words that the same detonation went off

in the bookcase. To this day I do not know what gave me this certainty. But I

knew beyond all doubt that the report would come again. Freud only stared

aghast at me. I do not know what was in his mind, or what his look meant. In

any case, this incident aroused his distrust of me, and I had the feeling that

I had done something against him. I never afterward discussed the incident with

him.

In formulating his synchronicity principle, Jung was influenced to a profound

degree by the "new" physics of the twentieth century, which had begun to

explore the possible role of consciousness in the physical world. "Physics,"

wrote Jung in 1946, "has demonstrated...that in the realm of atomic magnitudes

objective reality presupposes an observer, and that only on this condition is a

satisfactory scheme of explanation possible.This means," he added, "that a

subjective element attaches to the physicist's world picture, and secondly that

a connection necessarily exists between the psyche to be explained and the

objective space-time continuum." These discoveries not only helped loosen

physics from the iron grip of its materialistic world-view, but confirmed what

Jung recognized intuitively: that matter and consciousness -- far from

operating independently of each other -- are, in fact, interconnected in an

essential way, functioning as complementary aspects of a unified reality. "

Best wishes

Natabara DasOm Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo

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