Guest guest Posted March 9, 2002 Report Share Posted March 9, 2002 Dear Aruna Thank you very much for your contribution. you <<The words used by Kalyana Varma in the original are Atma for Sun and Mada for Rahu. Though the words used by Sri. Santhanam in translating are acceptable. These words may not accurately bring out the meanings of the original words in sanskrit. In my opinion Atma needs to be translated as "self" and Mada as pride, conceit or arrogance. >> Although you forgot to say which translation is given by santhanam, yours is good enough to follow up this interesting passage. I agree that atma is the self, the soul. I am not a Sanskrit scholar but i do follow its teachings. >From the Bhagavad Gita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada, i do find mada anvitah in Chapter 16 texts 10 and 17 , where mada is conceit or delusion. And madan as illusion in ch 18 text 35. Have a look. *** TEXT 10 kamam asritya duspuram dambha-mana-madanvitah mohad grhitvasad-grahan pravartante 'suci-vratah WORD FOR WORD kamam -- lust; asritya -- taking shelter of; duspuram -- insatiable; dambha -- of pride; mana -- and false prestige; mada-anvitah -- absorbed in the conceit; mohat -- by illusion; grhitva -- taking; asat -- nonpermanent; grahan -- things; pravartante -- they flourish; asuci -- to the unclean; vratah -- avowed. TRANSLATION Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. * TEXT 17 atma-sambhavitah stabdha dhana-mana-madanvitah yajante nama-yajnais te dambhenavidhi-purvakam WORD FOR WORD atma-sambhavitah -- self-complacent; stabdhah -- impudent; dhana-mana -- of wealth and false prestige; mada -- in the delusion; anvitah -- absorbed; yajante -- they perform sacrifice; nama -- in name only; yajnaih -- with sacrifices; te -- they; dambhena -- out of pride; avidhi-purvakam -- without following any rules and regulations. TRANSLATION Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes proudly perform sacrifices in name only, without following any rules or regulations. * TEXT 35 yaya svapnam bhayam sokam visadam madam eva ca na vimuncati durmedha dhrtih sa partha tamasi WORD FOR WORD yaya -- by which; svapnam -- dreaming; bhayam -- fearfulness; sokam -- lamentation; visadam -- moroseness; madam -- illusion; eva -- certainly; ca -- also; na -- never; vimuncati -- one gives up; durmedha -- unintelligent; dhrtih -- determination; sa -- that; partha -- O son of Prtha; tamasi -- in the mode of ignorance. TRANSLATION And that determination which cannot go beyond dreaming, fearfulness, lamentation, moroseness and illusion -- such unintelligent determination, O son of Prtha, is in the mode of darkness. *** In my humble experience, i have seen some people (a minority) claiming to be "spiritual" in appearance, but internally, their intentions are full of mada. My spiritual master Srila Maharaja said that one of the most dangerous things on the spiritual path is pratistha or pride. Therefore Rahu here seems to fullfil the role of mada in a horoscope. It seems a good ground for study to see the sun as atma or the pure self and Rahu as the indicator of the home work to make in this life regarding the entanglement in the illusion of this material creation. In other words, the position of Rahu and the house ruled by Rahu (according to the great Jaimini) will give the clues about the most entangling issues to be sorted out in this life. you <<Rahu on the other hand is a node of the moon. As such, it signifies an extreme state of the moon/mind. The moon being the vehicle through which the world is perceived>> me I do not agree here that Rahu is a moon node. The vedas say that Rahu is a demoniac planet. The karmic implications are that Rahu eclipses the luminaries due to past bussines in which the luminaries told Visnu that Rahu wanted to drink the nectar of inmortality, by being disguised in the cue among the demigods. This vedic passage is celebrated in stone at the temples in Anghkar. you <<Ego, though an accurate word to describe self always creates confusion due to the multiple meanings attributed to it as a consequence of the loose manner in which it has been used over the years.>> me I agree, many people can be confused and think that ego is bad when in fact it means the individual, the soul. The false ego is bad because it is the self-identification for that which is not. Best wishes Natabara Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2002 Report Share Posted March 10, 2002 Daer Natabara, Dear Natabara, Thanks for your comments. I have found these discussions the most valuable in this list and pray that they continue… You: > Although you forgot to say which translation is given by santhanam, yours is good enough to follow up this interesting passage.> Me: Let me give the entire verse from R. Santhanam's translation of SARAVALI of Kalyana Varma. Chapter 4 – Planetary Characters Verse 1 AtmA ravi: sheethakarastu cheta: sattvam dharAja: shashijotha vANI Guru:sito jnanashukhe madashcha rAhu: shani: kAlanarasya du:kham R. Santhanam's translation: The sun is the soul of the zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. My attempt at word-to-word translation Atma – self, ravi – Sun sheethakara – moon (sheetha – cool, cold; kara: - hand) Tu – indeed cheta: - consciousness, perception etc. sattvam: vitality, power, vigour, strength dharAja: - Mars (son of earth) shashija: Mercury (son of moon) atha: certainly vANI: sound, voice, power of speech guru: - Jupiter sita: - Venus jnana – knowledge, intelligence sukha – happiness, comforts etc. mada : conceit, (one of the shatripu -six enemies of man, namely kama krodha, lobha, moha, mada, maathsarya) Rahu: Rahu Shani : Saturn Kalanarasya : of Time Personified du:kham: sorrow, pain etc. I think the word to word meanings are good enough to understand the meaning of the verse for anyone. you > I do not agree here that Rahu is a moon node. The vedas say that Rahu is a demoniac planet. The karmic implications are that Rahu eclipses the luminaries due to past bussines in which the luminaries told Visnu that Rahu wanted to drink the nectar of inmortality, by being disguised in the cue among the demigods. > > This vedic passage is celebrated in stone at the temples in Anghkar. Me: I agree with you that Rahu is not the node of the moon from an esoteric (or real) perspective. But, referred to it thus to make it easy for me to communicate it to the members in the list. Thanks to people like you, the right meanings don't get diluted by individuals like myself, who lack higher level of rigour. Let me narrate the oldest story of Rahu (mentioned in Ramayana as well as Bhagavatha) for the sake of those who may not be aware: The devas (gods) amd asuras (demons) churned the ocean of milk and the amrtakumbha (pot of nectar) emerged. But, an asura maayaavi (magician) called saimhikeya absconded to paataala (nether world) with the pot of nectar, while all the devas were busy with dividing all the other divine object that emerged during the churning. Mahavishnu took the form of mohini ( a beautiful woman) and recovered the pot of nectar and distributed it to the devas. Saimhikeya took the form of brahmin, stood I the queue between the Sun and Moon to receive the amrta (nectar). While he was drinking it Surya (sun) and Chandra (moon) divined the secret of the "old brahmin" and informed Sri Vishnu. He cut the throat of the asura with His Chakra. Though the body became two, both the parts retained some amrta and hence gained an immortal state. The fact that Rahu-Kethu were between Sun and Moon in the queue for AMrta, would mean that they always hamper the flow of energy from the atma (sun) to the mind (moon. Thus they tend to cloud the mind and make the Sun ineffective at times. But, there is always a route for escape due to the grace of Lord Vishnu. As their origin is the maayavi (asuric magician), the whereabouts , lordship etc. have always been confusing to those who cannot divine the details. In my opinion, Rahu tends to give a sense of pride or arrogance to every individual depending on its location. There are many ways in which this pride develops. The most effective way employed by Rahu is to tease the individual by creating a void in a certain area of one's life and then filling the void later, while giving the individual an illusion that what has been achieved is due to personal effort. In other instances, Rahu clouds one's perception of oneself by hiding one's defects, thus feeding conceit. Only God's grace is our refuge to escape from this affliction. Love, Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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