Guest guest Posted March 4, 2002 Report Share Posted March 4, 2002 Dear Cynthia you<<When I begin each session I show the Western chart and their "sign."I say that we in the west use this to identify the ego" "I am an Aries!"In Vedic, it is much deeper, here we see the Sun as the essence of the person or the soul.>> me i think that it is a positive approach the way you describe the ego pattern to them. you<<Buddha who suggests that for enlightenment and peace we must release the ego.>> me Yes, but only Narayana (God) can tame the ego. you<<Anyway, the summation is simple. Do you believe Freud who cut us into pieces and called on the ego or do you follow the enlightened Buddha who sought to help us become one with all?>> me Here we have Freud and Bhuda. As a Vaisnava i have a peculiar perspective. The education makers of this materialistic so called western society, decided around the 19 century (to give a beginning of course, because they have been doing a similar thing for generations) to compile an educative system to give in schools. Therefore, they found suitable to incorporate into their curriculum, the theories of Darwin (which are given as facts rather than theories even if they do not have the tangible evidence), Freud (there are many better psychologists since him but he was stick on the curriculum as well), Karl Marx (they had to invent the opposition as well to control both sides) who did not invent the communist manifesto. The Pope at that time was already shouting against the communists two years before Marx was paid to write "his manifesto". The ego has the tendency to identify to a group (the "i Am of Aries and the i belong or i balance" of the opposite sign of Libra) and therefore it is easy to control both sides of the coin by allowing the opposition to exist. Regarding Bhuda, according to the Vedas, He is God with a particular mission. Bhuda came to attract those that wanted to identify with His teachings. In Buddha's time, most of people were killing indefense animals to satisfy their corrupted taste for meat eating. By eating meat people take part in killing and therefore they lose the sense of mercy. Without the sense of Mercy, people cannot understand God. Therefore God came to earth as the Bhuda to attract people to his "Ahimsa" (non violence) movement and in that way, people became converted to Buddhism and stopped killing animals. Therefore as a Vaisnava i follow the Bhagavad Gita to have a clear idea of those religious and philosophical views. you <<I do not look for the ego in the Vedic chart because in my approach I seek to help the client unify not separate.>> me I do the same. I do hope that this helps and that the list got my article called Ego. My computer says that the list got it but i got as well another email saying that the article was rejected. Perhaps it was too long to cope with the system. Best wishes Natabara Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2002 Report Share Posted March 4, 2002 dear natabara das this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand that taking things verbatim is not correct please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar quote the below 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth planets indicative of soul etc. are strong, these significations will equally be strong. If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the case of Saturn it is different. regards partha gjlist, "natabara" <natabara@n...> wrote: > Dear Cynthia > > you > <<When I begin each session I show the Western chart and their "sign." > > I say that we in the west use this to identify the ego" "I am an Aries!" > > In Vedic, it is much deeper, here we see the Sun as the essence of the person or the soul.>> > > me > i think that it is a positive approach the way you describe the ego pattern to them. > > you > <<Buddha who suggests that for enlightenment and peace we must release the ego.>> > > me > Yes, but only Narayana (God) can tame the ego. > > you > <<Anyway, the summation is simple. Do you believe Freud who cut us into pieces and called on the ego or do you follow the enlightened Buddha who sought to help us become one with all?>> > > me > Here we have Freud and Bhuda. > As a Vaisnava i have a peculiar perspective. > The education makers of this materialistic so called western society, decided around the 19 century (to give a beginning of course, because they have been doing a similar thing for generations) to compile an educative system to give in schools. > > Therefore, they found suitable to incorporate into their curriculum, the theories of Darwin (which are given as facts rather than theories even if they do not have the tangible evidence), Freud (there are many better psychologists since him but he was stick on the curriculum as well), Karl Marx (they had to invent the opposition as well to control both sides) who did not invent the communist manifesto. The Pope at that time was already shouting against the communists two years before Marx was paid to write "his manifesto". > > The ego has the tendency to identify to a group (the "i Am of Aries and the i belong or i balance" of the opposite sign of Libra) and therefore it is easy to control both sides of the coin by allowing the opposition to exist. > > Regarding Bhuda, according to the Vedas, He is God with a particular mission. Bhuda came to attract those that wanted to identify with His teachings. In Buddha's time, most of people were killing indefense animals to satisfy their corrupted taste for meat eating. By eating meat people take part in killing and therefore they lose the sense of mercy. Without the sense of Mercy, people cannot understand God. Therefore God came to earth as the Bhuda to attract people to his "Ahimsa" (non violence) movement and in that way, people became converted to Buddhism and stopped killing animals. > > Therefore as a Vaisnava i follow the Bhagavad Gita to have a clear idea of those religious and philosophical views. > > you > <<I do not look for the ego in the Vedic chart because in my approach I seek to help the client unify not separate.>> > > me > I do the same. > > I do hope that this helps and that the list got my article called Ego. My computer says that the list got it but i got as well another email saying that the article was rejected. Perhaps it was too long to cope with the system. > > Best wishes > Natabara Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2002 Report Share Posted March 4, 2002 Dear Partha, Please excuse me for venturing into this discussion, for I am wondering about the last part of Saravali's quotation. Can you describe what is meant by Saravali's words, "But in the case of Saturn it is different"? This does not explain to me what is the effect of Saturn when weak or strong. Thanking you in advance, Partha (or anyone else answering this question). Carol In a message dated Mon, 4 Mar 2002 9:52:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, "partvinu5" <partvinu5 writes: > this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand that taking things > verbatim is not correct > please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar quote the below > > 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use > The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars > strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus > comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth planets indicative > of soul etc. are strong, these significations will equally be strong. > If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the > case of Saturn it is different. > > regards > partha > > > > > gjlist, "natabara" <natabara@n...> wrote: > > Dear Cynthia > > > > you > > <<When I begin each session I show the Western chart and > their "sign." > > > > I say that we in the west use this to identify the ego" "I am an > Aries!" > > > > In Vedic, it is much deeper, here we see the Sun as the essence of > the person or the soul.>> > > > > me > > i think that it is a positive approach the way you describe the ego > pattern to them. > > > > you > > <<Buddha who suggests that for enlightenment and peace we must > release the ego.>> > > > > me > > Yes, but only Narayana (God) can tame the ego. > > > > you > > <<Anyway, the summation is simple. Do you believe Freud who cut us > into pieces and called on the ego or do you follow the enlightened > Buddha who sought to help us become one with all?>> > > > > me > > Here we have Freud and Bhuda. > > As a Vaisnava i have a peculiar perspective. > > The education makers of this materialistic so called western > society, decided around the 19 century (to give a beginning of > course, because they have been doing a similar thing for generations) > to compile an educative system to give in schools. > > > > Therefore, they found suitable to incorporate into their > curriculum, the theories of Darwin (which are given as facts rather > than theories even if they do not have the tangible evidence), Freud > (there are many better psychologists since him but he was stick on > the curriculum as well), Karl Marx (they had to invent the opposition > as well to control both sides) who did not invent the communist > manifesto. The Pope at that time was already shouting against the > communists two years before Marx was paid to write "his manifesto". > > > > The ego has the tendency to identify to a group (the "i Am of Aries > and the i belong or i balance" of the opposite sign of Libra) and > therefore it is easy to control both sides of the coin by allowing > the opposition to exist. > > > > Regarding Bhuda, according to the Vedas, He is God with a > particular mission. Bhuda came to attract those that wanted to > identify with His teachings. In Buddha's time, most of people were > killing indefense animals to satisfy their corrupted taste for meat > eating. By eating meat people take part in killing and therefore > they lose the sense of mercy. Without the sense of Mercy, people > cannot understand God. Therefore God came to earth as the Bhuda to > attract people to his "Ahimsa" (non violence) movement and in that > way, people became converted to Buddhism and stopped killing animals. > > > > Therefore as a Vaisnava i follow the Bhagavad Gita to have a clear > idea of those religious and philosophical views. > > > > you > > <<I do not look for the ego in the Vedic chart because in my > approach I seek to help the client unify not separate.>> > > > > me > > I do the same. > > > > I do hope that this helps and that the list got my article called > Ego. My computer says that the list got it but i got as well another > email saying that the article was rejected. Perhaps it was too long > to cope with the system. > > > > Best wishes > > Natabara Das > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2002 Report Share Posted March 4, 2002 --- partvinu5 <partvinu5 wrote: > dear natabara das > > this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand > that taking things > verbatim is not correct > please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar > quote the below > > 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use > The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the > Moon mind, Mars > strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter > intelligence, Venus > comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth > planets indicative > of soul etc. are strong, these significations will > equally be strong. > If these planets are weak, the effects are only > meager. But in the > case of Saturn it is different. That and one more reason is there to believe that Sun cannot be the kAraka for the 'Ego' you (Partha) had wanted. If I remember it right, you are asking for the planet which causes a person to take pride in certain thing. That I think should be determined by a case to case and not dependent on the planet at all. If at all there is a kAraka to it, it should be Rahu, who tends to bring in a perversion, if not kept in check. Sun on the other hand, is Atma; different from the ahamkAra you are searching for. This is the feeling of 'self', not associated with 'ahamkAra' (which brings in the vanity you are looking for) ahamkAravimUDhAtmA kartAhamiti manyate Gita 3.27. Since such ahamkara is said to curtail a soul's spritual progress, it is possible by an illusory planet only, i.e., Rahu and not a svayamprakAsha (self-illuminating) Sun. I might have come into this thread from nowhere; I have been reading your discussion but could not contribute; hope you will pardon this non-(expert/guru). Regards, Nomadeva > > regards > partha Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2002 Report Share Posted March 5, 2002 Dear natabara et al I suppose the real question is what are we calling ego? I can see the sense of one being connected with all is the Sun. But if it is the Freudian ego, then it might well be Rahu. If we are seeking a sense of unity, how does the astrologer present the information of the chart which seems at least upon the surface to divide the person into various pieces? Enjoying the dialogue. cynthia - natabara GJlist Monday, March 04, 2002 6:06 AM [GJ] EGO OR NOT EGO Dear Cynthia you<<When I begin each session I show the Western chart and their "sign."I say that we in the west use this to identify the ego" "I am an Aries!"In Vedic, it is much deeper, here we see the Sun as the essence of the person or the soul.>> me i think that it is a positive approach the way you describe the ego pattern to them. you<<Buddha who suggests that for enlightenment and peace we must release the ego.>> me Yes, but only Narayana (God) can tame the ego. you<<Anyway, the summation is simple. Do you believe Freud who cut us into pieces and called on the ego or do you follow the enlightened Buddha who sought to help us become one with all?>> me Here we have Freud and Bhuda. As a Vaisnava i have a peculiar perspective. The education makers of this materialistic so called western society, decided around the 19 century (to give a beginning of course, because they have been doing a similar thing for generations) to compile an educative system to give in schools. Therefore, they found suitable to incorporate into their curriculum, the theories of Darwin (which are given as facts rather than theories even if they do not have the tangible evidence), Freud (there are many better psychologists since him but he was stick on the curriculum as well), Karl Marx (they had to invent the opposition as well to control both sides) who did not invent the communist manifesto. The Pope at that time was already shouting against the communists two years before Marx was paid to write "his manifesto". The ego has the tendency to identify to a group (the "i Am of Aries and the i belong or i balance" of the opposite sign of Libra) and therefore it is easy to control both sides of the coin by allowing the opposition to exist. Regarding Bhuda, according to the Vedas, He is God with a particular mission. Bhuda came to attract those that wanted to identify with His teachings. In Buddha's time, most of people were killing indefense animals to satisfy their corrupted taste for meat eating. By eating meat people take part in killing and therefore they lose the sense of mercy. Without the sense of Mercy, people cannot understand God. Therefore God came to earth as the Bhuda to attract people to his "Ahimsa" (non violence) movement and in that way, people became converted to Buddhism and stopped killing animals. Therefore as a Vaisnava i follow the Bhagavad Gita to have a clear idea of those religious and philosophical views. you <<I do not look for the ego in the Vedic chart because in my approach I seek to help the client unify not separate.>> me I do the same. I do hope that this helps and that the list got my article called Ego. My computer says that the list got it but i got as well another email saying that the article was rejected. Perhaps it was too long to cope with the system. Best wishes Natabara DasOm Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo , send an email to: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2002 Report Share Posted March 5, 2002 Dear Carol, [With permission from Partha] It means that when other planets are strong, well placed, etc, their signification will menifest equally strongly. In case of Saturn, its signification has been given as "grief" and its intensity will be in reverse proportion to Saturn's strength, dignity etc. In other words, stronger Saturn gives less "grief" and weaker Saturn gives more. Best wishes Shailesh - Carolhook (AT) aol (DOT) com gjlist Tuesday, March 05, 2002 1:14 AM Re: [GJ] Re: EGO OR NOT EGO Dear Partha, Please excuse me for venturing into this discussion, for I am wondering about the last part of Saravali's quotation. Can you describe what is meant by Saravali's words, "But in the case of Saturn it is different"? This does not explain to me what is the effect of Saturn when weak or strong. Thanking you in advance, Partha (or anyone else answering this question). CarolIn a message dated Mon, 4 Mar 2002 9:52:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, "partvinu5" <partvinu5 > writes:> this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand that taking things> verbatim is not correct> please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar quote the below>> 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use> The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars> strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus> comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth planets indicative> of soul etc. are strong, these significations will equally be strong.> If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the> case of Saturn it is different.>> regards> partha>>>>> gjlist, "natabara" <natabara@n...> wrote:> > Dear Cynthia> >> > you> > <<When I begin each session I show the Western chart and> their "sign."> >> > I say that we in the west use this to identify the ego" "I am an> Aries!"> >> > In Vedic, it is much deeper, here we see the Sun as the essence of> the person or the soul.>>> >> > me> > i think that it is a positive approach the way you describe the ego> pattern to them.> >> > you> > <<Buddha who suggests that for enlightenment and peace we must> release the ego.>>> >> > me> > Yes, but only Narayana (God) can tame the ego.> >> > you> > <<Anyway, the summation is simple. Do you believe Freud who cut us> into pieces and called on the ego or do you follow the enlightened> Buddha who sought to help us become one with all?>>> >> > me> > Here we have Freud and Bhuda.> > As a Vaisnava i have a peculiar perspective.> > The education makers of this materialistic so called western> society, decided around the 19 century (to give a beginning of> course, because they have been doing a similar thing for generations)> to compile an educative system to give in schools.> >> > Therefore, they found suitable to incorporate into their> curriculum, the theories of Darwin (which are given as facts rather> than theories even if they do not have the tangible evidence), Freud> (there are many better psychologists since him but he was stick on> the curriculum as well), Karl Marx (they had to invent the opposition> as well to control both sides) who did not invent the communist> manifesto. The Pope at that time was already shouting against the> communists two years before Marx was paid to write "his manifesto".> >> > The ego has the tendency to identify to a group (the "i Am of Aries> and the i belong or i balance" of the opposite sign of Libra) and> therefore it is easy to control both sides of the coin by allowing> the opposition to exist.> >> > Regarding Bhuda, according to the Vedas, He is God with a> particular mission. Bhuda came to attract those that wanted to> identify with His teachings. In Buddha's time, most of people were> killing indefense animals to satisfy their corrupted taste for meat> eating. By eating meat people take part in killing and therefore> they lose the sense of mercy. Without the sense of Mercy, people> cannot understand God. Therefore God came to earth as the Bhuda to> attract people to his "Ahimsa" (non violence) movement and in that> way, people became converted to Buddhism and stopped killing animals.> >> > Therefore as a Vaisnava i follow the Bhagavad Gita to have a clear> idea of those religious and philosophical views.> >> > you> > <<I do not look for the ego in the Vedic chart because in my> approach I seek to help the client unify not separate.>>> >> > me> > I do the same.> >> > I do hope that this helps and that the list got my article called> Ego. My computer says that the list got it but i got as well another> email saying that the article was rejected. Perhaps it was too long> to cope with the system.> >> > Best wishes> > Natabara Das>>>>> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat> : gjlist-> http://www.goravani.com>>> Your use of is subject to Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2002 Report Share Posted March 5, 2002 Thank you for explaining this to me. Saturn is both weak yet positionally strong in my horoscope, so when I am not vigilant and thus allow Saturn to give me grief, it offers a superb example of grief-giving to me so that I might not have a boring life. However I have learned Saturn's sway over my life is only to the extent I allow myself to be swayed or affected by a weak Saturn's illusory veil of discord. When gathering up reserves of strength through concentration upon higher truths, I am able to see harmony all around me (it was always there). Then I think to myself, "If I had only ignored Saturn's drama, accepted God's ever present love, I'd have spent fewer heartbeats." The repeating lesson to me is that the day's sunshine precedes a dark night but that sunlight is never extinguished, even when it so dramatically appears to have departed....it is always there. Sunlight continues beaming when the night is dark, while night would have us convinced there is no light at all. A weak Saturn makes grief only to present to the individual that the time is ripe to awaken from a stilted drama. This awakening is a call for action. Use one's energies and efforts to bring about favorable changes right now, and be thankful for both the wake-up call and what it represents: a new opportunity to live in the Light. Carol In a message dated 3/5/2002 5:58:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, scchadha (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes: Dear Carol, [With permission from Partha] It means that when other planets are strong, well placed, etc, their signification will menifest equally strongly. In case of Saturn, its signification has been given as "grief" and its intensity will be in reverse proportion to Saturn's strength, dignity etc. In other words, stronger Saturn gives less "grief" and weaker Saturn gives more. Best wishes Shailesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2002 Report Share Posted March 5, 2002 Dear Partha, That is correct. However, do think over about the following: > this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand that taking things > verbatim is not correct > please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar quote the below > > 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use > The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars > strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus > comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth planets indicative > of soul etc. are strong, these significations will equally be strong. > If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the > case of Saturn it is different. HOW can a SOUL be strong of weak, if the soul refered is ATMA which is pure, undying transcendental nature. Obviously, the soul refered to SUN is something different -- Zoran Radosavljevic Jyotish Teacher at Shri Jagannath Vedic Centre mails: ahimsa ahimsa web address: http://www.sjvc.co.yu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 I am resending this mail.. since it didn't appear Zoran Radosavljevic wrote: > Dear Partha, > That is correct. However, do think over about the following: > > > this is what i get from saraveli, i do understand that taking things > > verbatim is not correct > > please tell me why did saraveli the great scholar quote the below > > > > 1-2. Kalapurusha's Soul etc. and their Use > > The Sun is the soul of the Zodiac personified, the Moon mind, Mars > > strength, Mercury speech (voice), Jupiter intelligence, Venus > > comforts, Rahu ego and Saturn grief. If at birth planets indicative > > of soul etc. are strong, these significations will equally be strong. > > If these planets are weak, the effects are only meager. But in the > > case of Saturn it is different. > > HOW can a SOUL be strong of weak, if the soul refered is ATMA which is pure, > undying transcendental nature. Obviously, the soul refered to SUN is > something different > -- > Zoran Radosavljevic > Jyotish Teacher at Shri Jagannath Vedic Centre > mails: ahimsa > ahimsa > web address: http://www.sjvc.co.yu -- Zoran Radosavljevic Jyotish Teacher at Shri Jagannath Vedic Centre mails: ahimsa ahimsa web address: http://www.sjvc.co.yu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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