Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Dear Cynthia and all I saw your invitation to talk about this interesting issue. I have been following all, and it is very interesting. Unfortunately my computer seem to be on the blink and i do not know if this email is going to reach you or for how long i will be fixing it. In the way that i understand it, we all are born in the coolective ego and in there, the soul is undiferienciated. The vedas explain that the coolective ego is 1/3 of the entire manifestation. It is like a cloud. Somehow, when the soul desires to move and becomes differienciated or individual, due to love of our father, is given the freedom or choice to either serve the Lord or becoming like a God. Although we are similar to God in essence, in quantity we are small while God is big. The soul as an individual, as a concious unit, is given a body to exercise his/her freedom. In that way, the soul reincarnates in a body and everybody has a horoscope. The karaka or natural indicator for the soul is the sun. In essence, the soul is pure but by interacting with the material body, the soul runs the risk of becoming contaminated. Partha has said <<Sun may not represent ego as it is the soul and soul is very much different from the body that we are having. The senses that we have and the senses that control are subjective to the conditions prevailing in this world. The maya that we are good or bad, great or humble, merciful or non-merciful is created by rahu.>> I do not agree with the above as you will read below when i quote Srila Prabhupada. It seems that Partha prabhu has not read Prabhupada's books as he should do as a Hare Krishna devotee. No only Rahu helps to present maya to us but the entire horoscope does that. The first house of the horoscope is the head of the horoscope and it is called tanu or the material body. The soul is represented by the sun because the soul is the pure ego. However, when the pure ego identifies himself with the material body, becomes the false ego. See what prabhupada says in the Bhagavad Gita. "When we are materially contaminated, we are called conditioned. False consciousness is exhibited under the impression that I am a product of material nature. This is called false ego. One who is absorbed in the thought of bodily conceptions cannot understand his situation. Bhagavad-gita was spoken to liberate one from the bodily conception of life, and Arjuna put himself in this position in order to receive this information from the Lord. One must become free from the bodily conception of life; that is the preliminary activity for the transcendentalist. One who wants to become free, who wants to become liberated, must first of all learn that he is not this material body. Mukti, or liberation, means freedom from material consciousness. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also the definition of liberation is given. Muktir hitvanyatha-rupam svarupena vyavasthitih: mukti means liberation from the contaminated consciousness of this material world and situation in pure consciousness. All the instructions of Bhagavad-gita are intended to awaken this pure consciousness, and therefore we find at the last stage of the Gita's instructions that Krishna is asking Arjuna whether he is now in purified consciousness. Purified consciousness means acting in accordance with the instructions of the Lord. This is the whole sum and substance of purified consciousness. Consciousness is already there because we are part and parcel of the Lord, but for us there is the affinity of being affected by the inferior modes. But the Lord, being the Supreme, is never affected. That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and the small individual souls. What is this consciousness? This consciousness is "I am." Then what am I? In contaminated consciousness "I am" means "I am the lord of all I survey. I am the enjoyer." The world revolves because every living being thinks that he is the lord and creator of the material world. Material consciousness has two psychic divisions. One is that I am the creator, and the other is that I am the enjoyer. But actually the Supreme Lord is both the creator and the enjoyer, and the living entity, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is neither the creator nor the enjoyer, but a cooperator." Therefore, the false ego is to think that we are the material body. It is a misconception. Furthermore, we can read from text 71 (I can find the chapter if you want): "TEXT 71 vihaya kaman yah sarvan pumams carati nihsprhah nirmamo nirahankarah sa santim adhigacchati WORD FOR WORD vihaya -- giving up; kaman -- material desires for sense gratification; yah -- who; sarvan -- all; puman -- a person; carati -- lives; nihsprhah -- desireless; nirmamah -- without a sense of proprietorship; nirahankarah -- without false ego; sah -- he; santim -- perfect peace; adhigacchati -- attains. TRANSLATION A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego -- he alone can attain real peace. " To be devoid of false ego is almost impossible, and only God can take the false ego away from us. See the next text to go further. "TEXT 27 prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah ahankara- vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate WORD FOR WORD prakrteh -- of material nature; kriyamanani -- being done; gunaih -- by the modes; karmani -- activities; sarvasah -- all kinds of; ahankara-vimudha -- bewildered by false ego; atma -- the spirit soul; karta -- doer; aham -- I; iti -- thus; manyate -- he thinks. TRANSLATION The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature. " The three modes of material nature are satva (goodness), rajas (passion) and tamas (ignorance). According to our level of consciousness we move under any of those modes. Srila Prabhupada explains very nicely all those issues in his Bhagavad Gita As It Is. I recommend to read that book which is like the Vedic bible. Prabhupda translates: "TEXTS 13-14 advesta sarva-bhutanam maitrah karuna eva ca nirmamo nirahankarah sama-duhkha-sukhah ksami santustah satatam yogi yatatma drdha-niscayah mayy arpita-mano-buddhir yo mad-bhaktah sa me priyah WORD FOR WORD advesta -- nonenvious; sarva-bhutanam -- toward all living entities; maitrah -- friendly; karunah -- kindly; eva -- certainly; ca -- also; nirmamah -- with no sense of proprietorship; nirahankarah -- without false ego; sama -- equal; duhkha -- in distress; sukhah -- and happiness; ksam i -- forgiving; santustah -- satisfied; satatam -- always; yogi -- one engaged in devotion; yata-atma -- self-controlled; drdha-niscayah -- with determination; mayi -- upon Me; arpita -- engaged; manah -- mind; buddhih -- and intelligence; yah -- one who; mat-bhaktah -- My devotee; sah -- he; me -- to Me; priyah -- dear. TRANSLATION One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me -- such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me." And later on: "False ego means accepting this body as oneself. When one understands that he is not his body and is spirit soul, he comes to his real ego. Ego is there. False ego is condemned, but not real ego. In the Vedic literature (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 1.4.10) it is said, aham brahmasmi: I am Brahman, I am spirit. This "I am," the sense of self, also exists in the liberated stage of self-realization. This sense of "I am" is ego, but when the sense of "I am" is applied to this false body it is false ego. When the sense of self is applied to reality, that is real ego. There are some philosophers who say we should give up our ego, but we cannot give up our ego, because ego means identity. We ought, of course, to give up the false identification with the body." Here is very clear what the false ego means and what ego is. Then: "TEXT 18 ahankaram balam darpam kamam krodham ca samsritah mam atma-para-dehesu pradvisanto 'bhyasuyakah WORD FOR WORD ahankaram -- false ego; balam -- strength; darpam -- pride; kamam -- lust; krodham -- anger; ca -- also; samsritah -- having taken shelter of; mam -- Me; atma -- in their own; para -- and in other; dehesu -- bodies; pradvisantah -- blaspheming; abhyasuyakah -- envious. TRANSLATION Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demons become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against the real religion." According to our spiritual advancement we are given a certain understanding of things. For example, when some Christians first translated the Vedas, their false identification made them to undermine the great Sanskrit teachings, because they could not allow any other foreign kwnoledge to be superior to theirs. In time there has been other teachers that give their own version of things according to their advancement. Their followers may say that those teachings are the best, but how we can judge a thing if we ourselves are not qualified to understand? According to our karma we are given the guides that we need and in that way we advance either forwards or backwards. It is by His mercy that we are given the understanding of His sciences. Hope that this is helpful. Best wishes Natabara Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2002 Report Share Posted March 5, 2002 Hi, the mind and the ego are one and the same. mind manifests as the ahamkara and chit. to realize one's self, mano nasa (destruction of mind) is the key. Karthik gjlist, Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > Dear Jyotishas, > Very interesting discussion. It seems that we all have different > concepts of what is ego.. > AHAMKARA is the principle responsible for individualisation of > MAHAT which is the prime state of evolution where the perfect balance of > three gunas is disturbed, and Prakriti moves towards manifestation. > MANAS means > cosmic mind which provides an object for individualisation > principle-AHAMKAR. MANAS is the state where the PRAKRITI urge to > manifest becomes > CLEARLY determined and defined. For that Reason. I would say: > PURUSHA is the prime father of cretion-SURYA. > PRAKRITI which is a perfect equilibrium of gunas is the mother of all > creation-CHANDRA. > AHAMKARA holds responsibility for individualisation of MAHAT(like a > filter)-SURYA. > MANAS clearly defines manifestation of PRAKRITI in the form of > mind-CHANDRA > Further, indiryas, tanmatras and mahabhutas belong to FIVE other grahas > > -- > Zoran Radosavljevic > Jyotish Teacher at Shri Jagannath Vedic Centre > mails: ahimsa@N... > ahimsa@n... > web address: http://www.sjvc.co.yu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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