Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Dear April I have named a subject for me to keep a reference. you <<Its still seems like magic that the cyberspace actually answers back.>> me Search and you will find. you <<This issue has really really played deeply on my mind for so many years and I feel so grateful I can get some perspective on my relationship karma. >> me We all do it. The name of the game is to know more and more about our selves. you <<When I first saw my Western Chart 25 years ago, I basically gave up on relationships and just lived a very full content life, alone. I never gave it another thought until I "fell in love" 34 months ago. Since that time I have had all my repressed fears and desires surface.>> me <<It is natural to react like that, most of us do it in that way, some never learn their lesson and others refuse to follow their destiny and pay with its consequences. We are supposed to follow our natural path, our natural destiny, and no to try to "force" a situation that satisfy our false ego. Therefore, we need an astrologer that can give us a guidance to our destiny, we need to see the road ahead and drive our life accordingly. you <<I would hate to undermine this relationship through this fear. OR, was it "who's kidding who.">> me To be detached helps a lot, but detached of what?. Detached of fear, insecurity and failure. Let it be, you <<Give it up, it will never work. This is why I am putting all these questions out there.>> me In this case. to give it up i a false detachment. Sooner or later, karma will work on you and sometimes when it is too late, due to our ignorance. you <<For the first time I am at a place to give it a chance. So, thanks.>> me Welcome. you <<with the sun being week mean that the obstacles could be weakened too.>> No necessarily, to have weak obstacles, the 6th house or its lord has to be weak. you<<Are there cases where this sort of chart weakness was able to have a successful relationship.>. me So far, i have not seen that. you <<Also does it help that my partner also has a difficult chart.>> me It depends, because by mixing two complex charts it may worsen the chemistry. We have to balance the energies. For example, when Rahu is in the 5th house in Leo, we can help to balance the bad energy by mixing with another horoscope that has Rahu in the 5th house or with a chart that has Rahu in Leo. I have seeen similar cases working miracles. you <<Perhaps there is a resonance through this. I will post his chart dates but I don't have his Vedic chart, only his Western one. me The date, time and place of birth can do it. Thank goodness that i got a good computer programe to do all that i a couple of minutes, otherwise i could take one hour to calculate the chart and dasas and buktis. you <<where his Asc is about 9 Gemini....>> me I can see better with the vedic chart. you <<1 Dec. 1953 /18:00 /Malaga, Spain /-1:00 GMT/ 4w25 / 36n43.>> me Have you heard the song "La malagueña"? you<<I don't understand why 11th or 7th from the 5th is mentioned. Is it partnership and gains?>> me Thanks for the question. Yes, you are right but just like you can read the houses from the ascendant or from the natal moon, we also can read from any other house. In this case, the natal 11th house from the natal ascendant is the angle relative to the natal ascendant sign. But from your natal 5th house, you count the houses up to the natal 11th and you will count 7th houses. Do not forget that in vedic astrology we always count 1 from the sign or constellation where we are starting. In this way we can see that our natal 11th house can be the 7th house from the natal 5th (do you understand? or i will explain this in another way). If your natal ascendant indicates your external being in this present life and your natal 7th (opposite to the 1st) means partnerships, marriage life, relationships etc.. Although the natal 5th house indicates love, it also indicates you external being in a previous life. Therefore, when reading from the 5th house as if it is your natal ascendant, the natal 11th house indicating earnings etc, becomes the 7th house from the 5th house, or it indicates the partnerships, marriage life, relationships etc., from a previous life. you<<could you or is it possible to articulate what this karma is? Not that you could know exactly but a sort of image or symbol or possible story line that could flesh out your comments.>> me By inspiration, knowledge and intuition i may be able to do this one day. It is possible. I have seen two of my teachers doing that. How do they do it? I do not know, but once you consult the natal chart you can see some of their logic and it fits perfectly. That is one of the services offered by vedic astrology and it is not there to be exploited by our false ego. The more false ego we have, the less vedic knowledge we will get. And the less false ego we have, the more vedic knowledge we will get. Here i will quote Tripurari Maharaja quoting from the vedic scriptures. ""Know this: the Veda instructs us, nayam atma pravacanena labhyo na medhaya na bahuna srutena: "The truth can only be known by one to whom the truthchooses to reveal itself, not by intellect, nor study of scripture." Bhakti--love--this is the message of the Bhagavatam. Who can deny that bylove all is revealed?""Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari" from Sanga Vol. IV, No 2 A little bit of understanding of Hata Yoga can help to visualize the elements in our body. The Bhagavad Gita says that this human body has 5 gross elements and 3 subtle elements. Earth, the lowest and more gross of all the elements is connected to our bones. Here we have the base chakra, the Muladhara chakra represented by Mars and its yellow color. Water, the next element going upwards is connected to the liquids in our body, like blood etc.. Here we have the Svadishtana chakra represented by the Moon and its orange color (these colors can be seen under an espectometer according to Bhattacharya in his book Gem Therapy). Fire is connected to the normal body temperature and to the fire of the digestion. Here we have the Manipura chakra, represented by the Sun, the solar power and its color red. Air is connected to the air in our body, our lungs, to prana, the essence of breathing. There are 10 different kinds of prana in our body. The Anahata chakra is here represented by the planet Saturn and its color is violet Ether is connected to the speech, sound, and it has here the Visuddha chakra represented by Venus and its color indigo. Those 5 elements are the gross elements. Then we have the subtle energy. The mind is connected to the Ajna chakra, represented by Jupiter and its blue color. The last chakra, or sahasrara chakra is connected to the intellect and it is represented by Mercury and its color green. See that the 7 colors of the rainbow are here folowed in its natural sequence, starting from green at the top, we descend to the lowest chakra which is represented by Mars or Tuesday and the red yellow color, then we go from yellow to green again. Above all this chakras and elements we have the false ego which is represented by the Sun. Chakra wise we saw all the 7 planets, but we know that the subtle elements are represented in a horoscope like this: The mind by the Moon; the intellect by Mercury; and the false ego by the Sun. When we die, the soul leaves the gross material body at once. But the soul takes with him/her the subtle body. The soul is never naked, the soul will always have a dress, either gross, subtle or spiritual. As long as the soul has not reached the ultimate goal which is in the spiritual realm, the soul has to move within this material manifestation. While in the gross manifestation, the soul has a body suitable to that environment. When "death", the soul still has a subtle body made of mind, intellect and false ego, or moon, mercury and the sun. The higher realm that the soul reaches, the less gross those subtle energies are. With those subtle energies the soul is ready to "enter" a gross body again in what we call reincarnation. All this process happens under the guidance of higher authorities and according to our desires and karma. Therefore i say that "we chose our body but according to our desires and karma". Some people say that we "chose our body". Another important thing is the psychic realm. Some people confuses the psychic energy with the spiritual energy, without realizing that the psychic energy is still material. The psychic energy is like a river dividing the material level from the spiritual realm. We are moving within the material energy and some can get in touch from here with the psychic energy but cannot understand it well. It is said that the mind is the fastest of the other 5 elements, because just by thinking on the moon, we can travel with our mind to that loka, or planet. But the psychic energy is faster than the mind. you <<In this way I could be much more conscious of how to work with it as inner work.>> me Good. you<<What do you mean by, let it be? You mean just go with the flow and be cool and see what happens. >> me Yes. you <<If he is the one developing detachment and I don't feel needed let it be too. I would love a little more advice.>> me In a relationship, we have to acomodate our self to the other. It is not a selfish question of just give me or scratch my back and i will scratch yours, it is a giving and take, harmonizing. We should not expect the partner to knock at our door, rather we should learn to know when our partner is getting ready to knock at the door. We should harmonise the natures, rather than force sitiuations. There was a guy searching for his perfect partner and while in a party, he found it. But the problem was that she was also searching for her perfect partner. you <<Could it be that this attitude of detachment could lead to a better loving relationship or a further distancing? me When both are detached, the harmony will be perfect. When one is 100% detached and the other is only 50% detached. The "all perfect" should go as low as a 75% or much better to a 50%. In that way harmony happens. I have seen many divorces happening because there is the expectancy of 100% perfection. Which girl is expected no to use make up, or no to socialize ? We may find her but eventually, mother nature will call. Or which girl is expected to follow the austerities of the boy or vice-verse? Are we asking to much from our partner?. The answer is that we should become mature enough to harmonize. First we should learn to see what we really need and not what we think we need. Then, we have to harmonize. We cannot force divinity to fullfill our selfish desires or ignorance. I know of a man that told me, "when i got married i was too young to understand what i wanted. Now, years later, i see my wife as the mother of my children, but not as my lover, that is why i have now my lover." Either because of some unseen karma or because of lust, that man had his lover but not for long. you <<Also I will be very careful about losses, expenditures. Thanks for the advice.>> me Good, propensities are there to be seen in a chart.you <<Does it help or change the situation that Mercury has progressed since my birth and is now conjunct Venus and Ketu in the 10th or is the debilitated and combust Mercury stuck in that Karmic state.>> me I have not studied those progressions, my astro tools are different. The combustion of Mercury is the concern. It indicates a karma done in previous life and to pay and learn in this one or the next. you <<With purification I hope that original state is evolving.>> me Purification will alway help. you <<In one way my mercury feels strong because I express myself about 8th house matters, healing, psychology, etc. I write hours every day and always have and I speak in public, do radio, write for publications etc. but with the 8th and 12th house influence and perhaps venus ketu I am very hermit like and quiet and invisible basically. I love the quiet meditative life. I do my service and then back to my cave.>> me Many of theses traits are due to you free will, skills and opportrunities. you <<what do you mean. That this could be the relationship could work out?>> me Now that i have the DOB of you partner i can see the picture better but i will give the answer next time. you <<What is an antara. Will the Venus antara be better or worse? In the Vimsottari system, we have dasa, or main planetary periods. Each one of those dasas is sub-divided into 9 sub-periods of time called buktis, giving one bukti to each of the 9 planets. Each one of those buktis is sub-divided into 9 sub-sub-periods of time called antaras, giving one antara to each of the 9 planets. I would say better, but it depends in how you see better and worse. To study antaras see the planet ownership and location. In your case, Venus is strong and rules the 3rd (media, writting, comunication, publishing etc) and the 10th (profession etc.). Venus has raja yoga and malavya yoga, hence those yogas can produce positive results in the Venus antaras. See as well that venus in in the 11th house angle fro jupiter, lord of bukti. The 11th angle is more positive and gives an smooth touch to eithr the bukti or antara under study. you"Venus in raja yoga is likely to produce good results and trigger up his Tantra yoga (by being aspecting Rahu)."<<do you mean always or during the venus antara.>> me The indications given by a planet in a chart is likely to become more prominent in his planetary periods. During his dasa, see only his houses that is representing. During his bukti, see his location primarly and his aspect as a secondary vivration. And during his antara, see both, ownership and location and aspects. you <<What is Tantra yoga in practical terms.>> me According to Harish Johari in his book "Gems", Tantra happens when either Venus or Jupiter aspect Rahu. In my experience i have only study this configuration from the 7th house from Rahu. It has the tendencies to give "supernatural powers" like clarivoyance, clariaudience, etc. The more together those planet are to ketu, the greater the powers or attraction to those skills. I have seen many people connected to the Spiritual Church, having these combinations. Although the condition for this yoga says aspect, i also can see that the conjunction with Rahu also generates it but in an intense way and associated with some troubles, perhaps because of the Guru Chandala yoga. There are 64 main different Tantric sciences, and of those, 8 are considered superior. The result of mastering one of those sciences is to become lighter than a feather, or to become heavier than a mountain, or to "fly" at will, or to bring people back from death, or to appear in different parts of the world at once etc. you<<Would my career as astrologer and therapist count or do you mean other avenues? me That will do. you <<I bet you are sorry you asked if I had any questions.>> me No, i meant it because by answering i can clarify some points. you <<Thanks so much for your time and much valued comments.>> me Welcome. best wishes Natabara Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Dear Natabara, I have understood most of what you wrote. I appreciate the lengthy explanations and how you have gone into my questions so deeply. In a very profound and subtle way I feel so much better and have a better orientation during this period. In my heart, I do feel the process or experience is great no matter the outcome. thanks to you I am even more detached than ever. Just a few more questions. you <<It is natural to react like that, most of us do it in that way, some never learn their lesson and others refuse to follow their destiny and pay with its consequences. We are supposed to follow our natural path, our natural destiny, and no to try to "force" a situation that satisfy our false ego. me this is so true, and with this in mind I can relax and just see what will be the natural destiny. you To be detached helps a lot, but detached of what?. Detached of fear, insecurity and failure. Let it be. me Again the same point. Lets hope it sinks in real deep. As detachment is one of the cornerstones of the spiritual path what a great lesson I can work on in this situation. you In this case. to give it up I a false detachment. Sooner or later, karma will work on you and sometimes when it is too late, due to our ignorance. me I see that now. Thanks me <<Are there cases where this sort of chart weakness was able to have a successful relationship.>. you So far, I have not seen that. me that is a pity. Do you mean now that most likely that if I am detached and let destiny unfold, that because of my chart, this will probably not work out. And I should just live it out anyway because this is my Karma. you Have you heard the song "La malagueña"? me yes. Its delightful. Also it is wonderful living in Malaga. you A little bit of understanding of Hata Yoga can help to visualize the elements in our body. The Bhagavad Gita says that this human body has 5 gross elements and 3 subtle elements. > Earth, the lowest and more gross of all the elements is connected to our bones. Here we have the base chakra, the Muladhara chakra represented by Mars and its yellow color. > Water, the next element going upwards is connected to the liquids in our body, like blood etc.. Here we have the Svadishtana chakra represented by the Moon and its orange color (these colors can be seen under an espectometer according to Bhattacharya in his book Gem Therapy). > Fire is connected to the normal body temperature and to the fire of the digestion. Here we have the Manipura chakra, represented by the Sun, the solar power and its color red. > Air is connected to the air in our body, our lungs, to prana, the essence of breathing. There are 10 different kinds of prana in our body. The Anahata chakra is here represented by the planet Saturn and its color is violet > Ether is connected to the speech, sound, and it has here the Visuddha chakra represented by Venus and its color indigo. > > > Those 5 elements are the gross elements. > > Then we have the subtle energy. > > The mind is connected to the Ajna chakra, represented by Jupiter and its blue color. > > The last chakra, or sahasrara chakra is connected to the intellect and it is represented by Mercury and its color green. > > See that the 7 colors of the rainbow are here folowed in its natural sequence, starting from green at the top, we descend to the lowest chakra which is represented by Mars or Tuesday and the red yellow color, then we go from yellow to green again. > > Above all this chakras and elements we have the false ego which is represented by the Sun. > > Chakra wise we saw all the 7 planets, but we know that the subtle elements are represented in a horoscope like this: > > The mind by the Moon; the intellect by Mercury; and the false ego by the Sun. > > When we die, the soul leaves the gross material body at once. But the soul takes with him/her the subtle body. The soul is never naked, the soul will always have a dress, either gross, subtle or spiritual. > > As long as the soul has not reached the ultimate goal which is in the spiritual realm, the soul has to move within this material manifestation. > > While in the gross manifestation, the soul has a body suitable to that environment. When "death", the soul still has a subtle body made of mind, intellect and false ego, or moon, mercury and the sun. > > The higher realm that the soul reaches, the less gross those subtle energies are. > > With those subtle energies the soul is ready to "enter" a gross body again in what we call reincarnation. All this process happens under the guidance of higher authorities and according to our desires and karma. > > Therefore i say that "we chose our body but according to our desires and karma". Some people say that we "chose our body". > > Another important thing is the psychic realm. Some people confuses the psychic energy with the spiritual energy, without realizing that the psychic energy is still material. > > The psychic energy is like a river dividing the material level from the spiritual realm. > > We are moving within the material energy and some can get in touch from here with the psychic energy but cannot understand it well. > > It is said that the mind is the fastest of the other 5 elements, because just by thinking on the moon, we can travel with our mind to that loka, or planet. But the psychic energy is faster than the mind. me I will be studying this very carefully. The most poignant point for me is the reminder that we are spiritual beings in our most profound and pure essence. I never heard it said to see the sun as the false ego. What is the difference between the ego, and the false ego. Thanks me <<If he is the one developing detachment and I don't feel needed let it be too. I would love a little more advice.>> you In a relationship, we have to acomodate our self to the other. It is not a selfish question of just give me or scratch my back and i will scratch yours, it is a giving and take, harmonizing. We should not expect the partner to knock at our door, rather we should learn to know when our partner is getting ready to knock at the door. We should harmonise the natures, rather than force sitiuations. me so well said. And it helps a lot. me <<Could it be that this attitude of detachment could lead to a better loving relationship or a further distancing? you When both are detached, the harmony will be perfect. First we should learn to see what we really need and not what we think we need. Then, we have to harmonize. We cannot force divinity to fullfill our selfish desires or ignorance. me you wrote so much about relationships and this is very helpful. I agree that if a person learns to love well they will be able to harmonize. Thank you again for your time and wisdom, April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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