Inventing new rules

January 19, 2002

Dear Cynthia

Bharani is completely contained within the sign of Aries and so is ruled by

the planet Mars and it is seen to have Martian qualities.

This is totally misleading for students of Vedic astrology. The 12 Rashi's

are divided into a triplicity of four signs ruled by each element. Each four

signs contains 9 nakshatras which in turn are ruled by the nine planets

starting from Ketu, Venus, Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn and

Mercury. Bharani is ruled by Venus being the 2nd Nakshatra. Being in the

sign of Mars it contains qualities of Mars as the rashi represents the

Sthoola or gross level of manifestation of the nakshatra.The nakshatra ruler

is the jeeva or soul level of manifestation so there is actually a blending

of both Mars and Venus with Bharani. After all its symbol is the yoni or

female vagina which has both qualities of Mars and Venus. Bharani relates to

procreation which involves BOTH Mars and Venus.

..Some may argue

that at a secondary level some Venus influence is there but at the

secondary

level we look to Navamsa and the first pada is Leo and hence has qualities

of that sign and ruler.

The "some" you mention would be every clear thinking Vedic astrologer in the

world. The second statement means you also think Bharani has the qualities

of the Sun and Leo which you will need to clarify with more than the fact

the first pada is Leo. How then does the Sun play a part in meaningful

interpretation of this nakshatra? If a planet is placed in the first pada,

yes, it has influence on that planet- but how does Leo influence Bharani in

general??

The conclusion is that the Lorships associates

with Nakshatra is used only for timing purposes

Says who?? So according to your thinking, if the natal Moon falls in Bharani

and Venus dasha rules for 20 important years in your early life, the

position of Venus in the chart is superfluous and of little importance? This

is utter and total nonsense and could only come from somebody who has no

actual idea of how to read a horoscope. The ruler of a nakshatra where a

planet is placed natally will show how that planet functions on an inner

level of the mind in particular. I will give you an example. G.W. Bush has

his lagna lord Moon in Chitra ruled by Mars, his Mars falls in Leo, the

firey powerful sign of the King. His manner, mind and thinking is direct and

he will use force, power and even violence to impose his thinking. This has

been shown by his term as Governor where he oversaw and approved many

executions and his time as President where he has made very concise and

sharp decisions to attack Afghanistan. According to your rules the nakshatra

of Chitra is ruled by Mercury who falls in the sensitive sign of Cancer for

Bush. Now I ask you- does this apply given what we have seen of Bush???

and this is confirmed by the

fact that in dasha systems other than Vimshottari DIFFERENT PLANETS ARE

ASSIGNED AS LORDS OF THE NAKSHATRAS . Those who argue otherwise argue most

foolishly .

Well I must be the king of the fools as I feel this idea of using all these

multiple dasha systems is the greatest heap of bullshit infecting these

lists. I have yet to see even one decent interpretation of a chart from the

people who promote all these dasha systems. As an intellectual form of study

I see no problem with exploring other dasha systems, but until I see it

applied realistically and practically in chart interpretation, it will stay

just another astrological theory to me. Instead of putting up such

misleading statements- post a chart of a prominent person and explain your

points clearly and precisely where everybody can see whether your ideas are

sound or not. Many beginners who read this list and are confused enough

already- I have enough trouble understanding some of the nonsense I read and

I've been on the lists for years.......

Skinbags

P.S New Vedic Group www.muruga/ bullshit free zone.

> Savant

>

> _______________

> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

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>

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>

January 20, 2002

Dear Andrew

Let us first look at sage Parasara and how he assigns Bharani under

different dashas

Vimshottari Venus

Ashtottari Rahu

Shatabdika Venus

Shadsottari Moon

Chaturashiitasama Sun

Dvadashottari Jupiter

Shattrimsasama Rahu

Dvisoptari Mars

Pancottari Moon

And there are dozens of other dasha systems .Some good Jyotishis do not even

use Vimshottari dasa .I've travelled in India I know .

On this basis there is no reason to assign Bharani Venus qualities otherwise

you might as well give it Rahu's qualities also since Asttotari is

applicable to a big percentage of charts .

>

>The "some" you mention would be every clear thinking Vedic astrologer in

>the

>world. The second statement means you also think Bharani has the qualities

>of the Sun and Leo which you will need to clarify with more than the fact

>the first pada is Leo. How then does the Sun play a part in meaningful

>interpretation of this nakshatra? If a planet is placed in the first pada,

>yes, it has influence on that planet- but how does Leo influence Bharani in

>general??

My only point here is that the Navamsa is the secondary level of

intepretation .In other words the padas of Bharani already have a sublord .

>

>Says who?? So according to your thinking, if the natal Moon falls in

>Bharani

>and Venus dasha rules for 20 importa>

>

> The conclusion is that years in your early life, the

>position of Venus in the chart is superfluous and of little importance?

NO ABSOLUTELY NO

When you are talking about the early years of life aren't you talking about

TIMING . During a dasha or bhukti the planets located in the nakshatras of

the dasha Lord come into play . This is a TIMING consideration .You'll see

if you study other dashas that the assignment of nakshatras to planets is a

timing consideration .

>

>Well I must be the king of the fools as I feel this idea of using all these

>multiple dasha systems is the greatest heap of bullshit infecting these

>lists.

I agree with you entirely .It is terrible these gurus inflict beginners

with systems they themselves cannot show any usefulness for .However let us

properly understand the framework of jyotish and not rashly assert that

Bharani has Venus qualities .

The difficulty I have is that some of these jyotishis have been practising

10 20 or even 30 years and it hasn't occured to them that Bharani really

does not have Venus qualities .One might make reference to the womb or

procreation but we could just as easily say Saturn or Ketu since it is ruled

by Yama God of death .

Savant Smith

_______________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

January 20, 2002

> Dear Andrew

> Let us first look at sage Parasara and how he assigns Bharani under

> different dashas

> Vimshottari Venus

> Ashtottari Rahu

> Shatabdika Venus

> Shadsottari Moon

> Chaturashiitasama Sun

> Dvadashottari Jupiter

> Shattrimsasama Rahu

> Dvisoptari Mars

> Pancottari Moon

>

> And there are dozens of other dasha systems .Some good Jyotishis do not

even

> use Vimshottari dasa .I've travelled in India I know .

Firstly I wonder if Parasara was even an astrologer. As an enlightened man

he may well have known the entire workings of the universe. This doesn't

mean his work in its totality can, or even should he used by us mere

mortals. Does anybody really know how to use all these dashas? I doubt it as

Parasara himself never said how to interpret them all clearly. What about

Dhum. Gullika and the upagrahas, we have no actual idea what they are, are

they the nodes of other planets? Are they astral planets? Who knows? All we

have is other peoples interpretations of them at best and this troubles me

given what I've seen from these people on the net and lists. The point I'm

trying to make is not to attack you personally but to focus on what we do

know rather not what we don't know. The nakshatras are very esoteric and

there is little in print about them. While Parasara may have given other

lords I think for clarity we should stick to one basic system- for everone's

sake..........

>

> On this basis there is no reason to assign Bharani Venus qualities

otherwise

> you might as well give it Rahu's qualities also since Asttotari is

> applicable to a big percentage of charts .

Once again we could also speculate about Bharani being ruled by aliens

called Bharanians for all I really know. I find that the symbology and

energy of Bharani fits well with a combination of Mars and Venus. Until I

get beamed up there to find out for myself I'll stick with that.........

>

> >

> My only point here is that the Navamsa is the secondary level of

> intepretation .In other words the padas of Bharani already have a sublord

..

> >

> >Says who?? So according to your thinking, if the natal Moon falls in

> >Bharani

> >and Venus dasha rules for 20 importa>

> >

> > The conclusion is that years in your early life, the

> >position of Venus in the chart is superfluous and of little importance?

> NO ABSOLUTELY NO

> When you are talking about the early years of life aren't you talking

about

> TIMING . During a dasha or bhukti the planets located in the nakshatras of

> the dasha Lord come into play . This is a TIMING consideration .You'll see

> if you study other dashas that the assignment of nakshatras to planets is

a

> timing consideration .

We should not play word games, if you use other dasha systems that work very

clearly, put up a chart and explain it in clear terms of events in a persons

life and you will win me over to this idea. To merely state an idea without

some example is leaving it in the realm of intellectual theory which is

useless to me.

>

> Well I must be the king of the fools as I feel this idea of using all

these

> >multiple dasha systems is the greatest heap of bullshit infecting these

> >lists.

>

> I agree with you entirely .It is terrible these gurus inflict beginners

> with systems they themselves cannot show any usefulness for

This is my biggest gripe. They want to appear all knowing and wise.What

other reason could there be??

.However let us

> properly understand the framework of jyotish and not rashly assert that

> Bharani has Venus qualities .

Fair enough. Others may want to give some opinions on this as they may have

some ideas as well.

>

> The difficulty I have is that some of these jyotishis have been practising

> 10 20 or even 30 years and it hasn't occured to them that Bharani really

> does not have Venus qualities .One might make reference to the womb or

> procreation but we could just as easily say Saturn or Ketu since it is

ruled

> by Yama God of death .

Well that is true in theory, but using mathematics to divide the signs,

nakshatras, padas, we see a uniformed system and if you use the vimshottari

system you must accept that Venus rules Bharani. If you don't you should not

use vimshottari because the lords of the nakshatras set the time of the

dashas. You have to accept a certain amount of jyotish faithfully as it has

been handed down in a reasonably unchanged way for so long. The actual

qualities of the nakshatra Bharani may never be known as we have no real way

of proving who is right. We should not think that every old Indian guy who

practices astrology is some exalted Guru. Some are total rogues and

scoundrels who have no more idea of these things than we do. My advice is to

test, research and find out for yourself what is correct. Be your own

guru............

Andrew

>

> Savant Smith

>

> _______________

> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

January 20, 2002

Does anybody really know how to use all these dashas? I doubt it as

Parasara himself never said how to interpret them all clearly. What about

Dhum. Gullika and the upagrahas, we have no actual idea what they are, are

they the nodes of other planets? Are they astral planets? Who knows?

No. I don't understand the dashas at all, or nakshatras, or how planetary

rulerships of constellations work except when it comes to working out a natal

chart in a basic way. Even when I take a direct event from my own life, and

track it back to the dasha/bhukti that was running then, it doesn't make sense.

For example, I was in a car accident when I was about 26. The bukhti running was

mercury, which is, according to the natal chart, supposed to give good results.

This was the only car accident I've ever been in, so it seems important. It

actually was important in my life, very startling and transforming -- not

necessarily in a good way.

It's very hard for me to get the drift of what some people say on these lists

because when I take what they're doing it doesn't seem to work for me, or

create a pattern that makes sense.

c

January 20, 2002

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January 20, 2002

Dear Andrew

The message you are so vociferously trashing me on was NOT written by me.

I began this particular thread because a well known Vedic astrologer

suggested that the planetary lordship for the nakshatras was merely for

their placement in the dasha system. I, in fact if you had read my message,

questioned this and questioned how Bharani such a Venusian symbol could be

ruled by MArs simply from its placement in the constellation. I was

awaiting the writer's response.

I appreciate you response but your tone leaves much to be desired.

cynthia

-

Andrew Lynn <skinbags

Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:47 AM

[GJ] Inventing new rules

>

> Dear Cynthia

>

> Bharani is completely contained within the sign of Aries and so is ruled

by

> the planet Mars and it is seen to have Martian qualities.

>

> This is totally misleading for students of Vedic astrology. The 12 Rashi's

> are divided into a triplicity of four signs ruled by each element. Each

four

> signs contains 9 nakshatras which in turn are ruled by the nine planets

> starting from Ketu, Venus, Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn and

> Mercury. Bharani is ruled by Venus being the 2nd Nakshatra. Being in the

> sign of Mars it contains qualities of Mars as the rashi represents the

> Sthoola or gross level of manifestation of the nakshatra.The nakshatra

ruler

> is the jeeva or soul level of manifestation so there is actually a

blending

> of both Mars and Venus with Bharani. After all its symbol is the yoni or

> female vagina which has both qualities of Mars and Venus. Bharani relates

to

> procreation which involves BOTH Mars and Venus.

>

> .Some may argue

> that at a secondary level some Venus influence is there but at the

> secondary

> level we look to Navamsa and the first pada is Leo and hence has

qualities

> of that sign and ruler.

>

> The "some" you mention would be every clear thinking Vedic astrologer in

the

> world. The second statement means you also think Bharani has the qualities

> of the Sun and Leo which you will need to clarify with more than the fact

> the first pada is Leo. How then does the Sun play a part in meaningful

> interpretation of this nakshatra? If a planet is placed in the first pada,

> yes, it has influence on that planet- but how does Leo influence Bharani

in

> general??

>

> The conclusion is that the Lorships associates

> with Nakshatra is used only for timing purposes

>

> Says who?? So according to your thinking, if the natal Moon falls in

Bharani

> and Venus dasha rules for 20 important years in your early life, the

> position of Venus in the chart is superfluous and of little importance?

This

> is utter and total nonsense and could only come from somebody who has no

> actual idea of how to read a horoscope. The ruler of a nakshatra where a

> planet is placed natally will show how that planet functions on an inner

> level of the mind in particular. I will give you an example. G.W. Bush has

> his lagna lord Moon in Chitra ruled by Mars, his Mars falls in Leo, the

> firey powerful sign of the King. His manner, mind and thinking is direct

and

> he will use force, power and even violence to impose his thinking. This

has

> been shown by his term as Governor where he oversaw and approved many

> executions and his time as President where he has made very concise and

> sharp decisions to attack Afghanistan. According to your rules the

nakshatra

> of Chitra is ruled by Mercury who falls in the sensitive sign of Cancer

for

> Bush. Now I ask you- does this apply given what we have seen of Bush???

>

> and this is confirmed by the

> fact that in dasha systems other than Vimshottari DIFFERENT PLANETS ARE

> ASSIGNED AS LORDS OF THE NAKSHATRAS . Those who argue otherwise argue

most

> foolishly .

>

> Well I must be the king of the fools as I feel this idea of using all

these

> multiple dasha systems is the greatest heap of bullshit infecting these

> lists. I have yet to see even one decent interpretation of a chart from

the

> people who promote all these dasha systems. As an intellectual form of

study

> I see no problem with exploring other dasha systems, but until I see it

> applied realistically and practically in chart interpretation, it will

stay

> just another astrological theory to me. Instead of putting up such

> misleading statements- post a chart of a prominent person and explain your

> points clearly and precisely where everybody can see whether your ideas

are

> sound or not. Many beginners who read this list and are confused enough

> already- I have enough trouble understanding some of the nonsense I read

and

> I've been on the lists for years.......

>

> Skinbags

>

> P.S New Vedic Group www.muruga/ bullshit free zone.

>

> > Savant

> >

> > _______________

> > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> > http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> > : gjlist-

> >

> > Your use of is subject to

> >

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

January 20, 2002

Dear Calla,

I've just taken a quick look at your chart and, providing your lagna is correct,

the danger of accident during the period you mentioned (1990) stands out like a

neon sign!

Both GJ and PL show 1hr DST giving Sagittarius lagna...is this correct?

Best Wishes,Wendy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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