9th HOUSE

[Guest guest]

Dear Gordon

 

<<It has seemed obvious to me that 9th house does not satisfy the indication of

father in all respects>>

 

I can understand your way of thinking because i used to think like that. If 7th

rules partners of 1st house it is logical to think that the 10th by being the

7th to the 4th (mother) rules the husband of the mother, or the father of the

native.

 

However, there are astrologers that follow the 9th house to see the father.

Guru is indicated from the 9th house and father can be the guru to the native

as well.

 

To ask me why i believe that the 9th house rules the father is like to ask me

why Aries is ruled by Mars. I can not give the answer to both questions. I

just follow guru, sastra and sadhu.

 

Guru is the teacher, the guide, the one that interprets the sastras and teaches the sadhu.

 

Sastra are the written texts giving indications of arts or sciences.

 

Sadhu are the students of sastra and guru.

 

For example, everybody on this list are like sadhus or students of astrology.

Although in reality the word sadhu implies an student on the religious path, we

can see the word sadhu can imply a student.

 

Everybody on this list has read at least a book either classic like the Hora

Sara, Parasara Hora, Garga Hora etc, or books written by other

teachers/students to give a guide to the classics. In time the students having

questions from books ask other students or the teacher.

 

When the student deviates from the books or the teacher, makes mistakes. When

the teacher deviates from the books, can cheat those that do not know the real

substance of the books. And when the books are distorted or mis-translated,

the guru has the power and training to detect it.

 

So, that trinity has to work together.

 

I have been told by students, books and teachers that the 9th house rules father

but also that the 10th house rules father. But by following my intuition and

experience i had come to the conclusion that the 9th house rules father.

 

The books say that when we find two different opinions among the old masters, we

should evaluate the data and follow our experience and intuition.

 

best regards

Natabara Das

[Guest guest]

I completely agree

Thanks

Gordon

[Guest guest]

Dear Gordon

 

I look at it this way. The 9th house and 9th lord primarily relate to the father

as the first teacher and guide in life. The 10th house being the 2nd house of

wealth of the father relates to the status and material wealth to be gained

from the father. The 9th sign of the zodiac is ruled by Jupiter the great

teacher and the 10th house sign is ruled by Saturn the planet of material and

concrete assets.

Many people with a strong tenth house have a strong career or success- but often

that has been a legacy of previous work and effort of the father. Just something

to ponder.

 

Andrew

If you're saying that both the ninth and tenth represent the father, then I

think I agree with you, although probably to a different extent. When we rotate

the chart to the fourth to study the mother's life, the tenth becomes the

mother's spouse and therefore does indeed becomes the father. So I would agree

with you in saying that the tenth probably does show the father, but as he is

related to the mother, although for all purposes I still analyse the ninth and

don't really pay much attention to the tenth. But, I'll try keeping an eye on

it from now on.

[Guest guest]

Dear Gordon

 

One thing worth mentioning I forgot to add, is when confused by these house

meanings you can look to the element ruling the natural house in the zodiac.

The natural 9th sign/house is ruled by the fire element which governs insight,

perception and discrimination which must be preferably taught to the child by a

wise and loving father. The 10th sign/house is ruled by the earth element which

relates more to material security, wealth and status. This ideally is also

passed on to the child by legacy of the father. By both being in the last third

of the zodiac they relate to the highest manifestation of these elemental

principals. This shows why a person with strong 9th and 10th house usually does

well in life. A person who has been given wisdom, insight and perception

combined with a father of material means is in a far better position to do well

in life than somebody who lacks these things- obviously!!

 

Andrew

[Guest guest]

No need to be sorry. But please can you explain

'As 9th is 5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father '. ??? What you said

sounded interesting, but you missed something here.

Thanks again

Gordon

[Guest guest]

Sorry for entering in it,

 

Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of 9th house , As 9th is

5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny lived and

developed in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The Ascendant

is karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and 4rth

denotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth and

that of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni

-

"Andrew Lynn" <skinbags

<gjlist>

Monday, January 14, 2002 11:45 AM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

 

 

Dear Gordon

 

One thing worth mentioning I forgot to add, is when confused by these house

meanings you can look to the element ruling the natural house in the zodiac.

The natural 9th sign/house is ruled by the fire element which governs

insight, perception and discrimination which must be preferably taught to

the child by a wise and loving father. The 10th sign/house is ruled by the

earth element which relates more to material security, wealth and status.

This ideally is also passed on to the child by legacy of the father. By both

being in the last third of the zodiac they relate to the highest

manifestation of these elemental principals. This shows why a person with

strong 9th and 10th house usually does well in life. A person who has been

given wisdom, insight and perception combined with a father of material

means is in a far better position to do well in life than somebody who lacks

these things- obviously!!

 

Andrew

[Guest guest]

As soul can not be generated we may refer Father as a Pursha who helps

achieve a new body to the soul. So the count starts from the 1st and 1st is

generated due to 9th.

Inder Jit Sahni

-

"Inder Jit Sahni" <isawhney_21

<gjlist>

Monday, January 14, 2002 11:38 PM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

 

 

> Sorry for entering in it,

>

> Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of 9th house , As 9th is

> 5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny lived and

> developed in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The

Ascendant

> is karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and 4rth

> denotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth and

> that of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .

> Regards,

> Inder Jit Sahni

> -

> "Andrew Lynn" <skinbags

> <gjlist>

> Monday, January 14, 2002 11:45 AM

> Re: [GJ] 9th house

>

>

> Dear Gordon

>

> One thing worth mentioning I forgot to add, is when confused by these

house

> meanings you can look to the element ruling the natural house in the

zodiac.

> The natural 9th sign/house is ruled by the fire element which governs

> insight, perception and discrimination which must be preferably taught to

> the child by a wise and loving father. The 10th sign/house is ruled by the

> earth element which relates more to material security, wealth and status.

> This ideally is also passed on to the child by legacy of the father. By

both

> being in the last third of the zodiac they relate to the highest

> manifestation of these elemental principals. This shows why a person with

> strong 9th and 10th house usually does well in life. A person who has been

> given wisdom, insight and perception combined with a father of material

> means is in a far better position to do well in life than somebody who

lacks

> these things- obviously!!

>

> Andrew

>

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

Yes i missed as 1st is 5th from the 9th.

Inder Jit Sahni

-

<GWBrennan

<gjlist>

Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:08 AM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

 

 

> Dear Inder Jit

> No need to be sorry. But please can you explain

> 'As 9th is 5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father '. ??? What you

said

> sounded interesting, but you missed something here.

> Thanks again

> Gordon

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Inder Jit,

So, following this principle, it would be natural to assume our biological

father to be our mother's uncle (6th from 4th). What can I say :-) except that

it will come as a great shock to many to discover their biological father is

not their mother's husband.

 

Your views, as always, are valued Inder Jit, but nothing can convince me that

the 10th does not show our biological father and the 9th our spiritual

father/guru.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for entering in it,Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of

9th house , As 9th is5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny

lived anddeveloped in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The

Ascendantis karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and

4rthdenotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth

andthat of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .Regards,Inder

Jit Sahni

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

Your assumption is wrong, for considering parents to a person you must

consider 9th as father and 4rth as mother. But when you are to calculate for

the 4rth ; independent of 1st , 10th is important , so 10th is important for

the relationship of mother.

Also don't start from the 4rth ; it is self and starting of self begins from

the ascendant. And this self is generated and is progeny of 9th as 1st is

5th from the 9th. Also 4rth is act of copulation for the 9th.

I will look for relationship of parents with self by 9th and 4rth . and for

their independent relationship by 4rth and 10th from mother point of view

and will consider 9th and 3rd from father point of view.

Further let us assume a situation where a lady get the progeny from one and

marries to another ; and that man do all the duties of a father. I will use

the 10th house for that man. And suppose she left that person and marries

another i will look for 12th house as 1st step father, and not 11th. There

is no step for a biological father. Steps could be for the serving

father.Don't mix Guru with father.

I don't know if it clears your doubts.

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni

-

"Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas

<gjlist>

Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:32 AM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

 

 

Dear Inder Jit,

So, following this principle, it would be natural to assume our biological

father to be our mother's uncle (6th from 4th). What can I say :-) except

that it will come as a great shock to many to discover their biological

father is not their mother's husband.

 

Your views, as always, are valued Inder Jit, but nothing can convince me

that the 10th does not show our biological father and the 9th our spiritual

father/guru.

 

Best Wishes,

Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologer

http://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/

JyotishVidya

wenvas

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for entering in it,

 

Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of 9th house , As 9th is

5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny lived and

developed in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The

Ascendant

is karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and 4rth

denotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth and

that of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy

 

I agree with you whole heartedly. I keep trying to use the 9th as father and it

simply doesn't work with all clients.

 

I've come to use the 10th as the father who is the authoritarian and the 9th as

father the spiritual teacher. When those planets are both well placed you find

a balanced father who taught much and was there for the child. When the 9th is

weak and the 10th strong or perhaps intense then I find the emotionally distant

father who was still very present in the native's life.

 

The 4th seems to always work well for mother, but the Moon gives me greater

info. as does Saturn for father and the SUn as well.

 

Again, I'm looking as the father as the more dominant parent or the one who

taught the native about structure or lack thereof. In this instance, Saturn

reveals a great deal about the family structure. A weakened SAturn often

reflects a weakened father. Not always the case, but often.

 

Anyway, the point being that the 9th is not a universal ruler as I find the 4th is.

 

Just my two-cents-worth.

 

cynthia

-

Wendy Vasicek

gjlist

Monday, January 14, 2002 9:02 PM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

Dear Inder Jit,

So, following this principle, it would be natural to assume our biological

father to be our mother's uncle (6th from 4th). What can I say :-) except that

it will come as a great shock to many to discover their biological father is

not their mother's husband.

 

Your views, as always, are valued Inder Jit, but nothing can convince me that

the 10th does not show our biological father and the 9th our spiritual

father/guru.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for entering in it,Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of

9th house , As 9th is5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny

lived anddeveloped in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The

Ascendantis karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and

4rthdenotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth

andthat of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .Regards,Inder

Jit SahniOm Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo ,

send an email to: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use

of is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Dear Inder Jit,

I have no doubts :-)

Please believe what you wish; I would rather let logic be my guide. No amount of

discussing (unfortunately) is likely to sway the other, so let's just agree to

disagree :-)

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Wendy,Your assumption is wrong, for considering parents to a person you

mustconsider 9th as father and 4rth as mother. But when you are to calculate

forthe 4rth ; independent of 1st , 10th is important , so 10th is important

forthe relationship of mother.Also don't start from the 4rth ; it is self and

starting of self begins fromthe ascendant. And this self is generated and is

progeny of 9th as 1st is5th from the 9th. Also 4rth is act of copulation for

the 9th.I will look for relationship of parents with self by 9th and 4rth . and

fortheir independent relationship by 4rth and 10th from mother point of viewand

will consider 9th and 3rd from father point of view.Further let us assume a

situation where a lady get the progeny from one andmarries to another ; and

that man do all the duties of a father. I will usethe 10th house for that man.

And suppose she left that person and marriesanother i will look for 12th house

as 1st step father, and not 11th. Thereis no step for a biological father.

Steps could be for the servingfather.Don't mix Guru with father.I don't know if

it clears your doubts.Regards,Inder Jit Sahni

[Guest guest]

Hello Wendy,

 

The ongoing debate did arouse me out of my self

imposed slumber. In agrarian and pastoral society, the

son always took after his father, hence the 10th

house. Today father acts only like a guru, hence 9th

house. This is an unending controversy and wont be

resolved.

 

A study was carried out in Journal of Astrology. The

interesting fact which emerged out was that the death

of father took place in dasha/antardasha of planets

related to 10th, 3rd, 2nd and 8th houses from the 9th

house and also these positions from Sun, the

significator of father. This again resolves it in

favour of the 9th house. Another study suggested that

whenever there is a dasha of sixth house in the chart,

the father prospers/fails in his profession. Sixth

being, the 10th from 9th.

 

regards,

 

Manoj

 

 

 

Send FREE video emails in Mail!

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[Guest guest]

Dear Cynthia and Inder Jit,

I think it's important to recognise that there may not always be a legal

(marriage) contract joining the biological mother and father. Just as there may

not always be a marriage contact for the native and his/her partner (spouse).

Very common in this day and age, particularly. Also (I believe) in medieval

times, only the aristocracy married legally...to protect their blood line

(pedigree)...not considered necessary for the common folk.

 

If a child is raised by a father, other than his biological one (step-father),

this will be seen in the horoscope. Also there are indications (in the

horoscope) for illegitimacy.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:11 PM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

Dear Wendy

 

I agree with you whole heartedly. I keep trying to use the 9th as father and it

simply doesn't work with all clients.

 

I've come to use the 10th as the father who is the authoritarian and the 9th as

father the spiritual teacher. When those planets are both well placed you find

a balanced father who taught much and was there for the child. When the 9th is

weak and the 10th strong or perhaps intense then I find the emotionally distant

father who was still very present in the native's life.

 

The 4th seems to always work well for mother, but the Moon gives me greater

info. as does Saturn for father and the SUn as well.

 

Again, I'm looking as the father as the more dominant parent or the one who

taught the native about structure or lack thereof. In this instance, Saturn

reveals a great deal about the family structure. A weakened SAturn often

reflects a weakened father. Not always the case, but often.

 

Anyway, the point being that the 9th is not a universal ruler as I find the 4th is.

 

Just my two-cents-worth.

 

cynthia

-

Wendy Vasicek

gjlist

Monday, January 14, 2002 9:02 PM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

Dear Inder Jit,

So, following this principle, it would be natural to assume our biological

father to be our mother's uncle (6th from 4th). What can I say :-) except that

it will come as a great shock to many to discover their biological father is

not their mother's husband.

 

Your views, as always, are valued Inder Jit, but nothing can convince me that

the 10th does not show our biological father and the 9th our spiritual

father/guru.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry for entering in it,Ascendant signifies self and this self is progeny of

9th house , As 9th is5th from 9th. So 9th is the house of Father . This progeny

lived anddeveloped in the 4rth house , the house which denotes mother. The

Ascendantis karma of Mother.So to a child the 9th house denotes father and

4rthdenotes mother. The role of mother is that of Prakriti,nature, Earth

andthat of Father is of Pursha "through which soul is generated" .Regards,Inder

Jit SahniOm Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo ,

send an email to: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use

of is subject to the Om Namo Bhagavate

Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Again Manoj the argument is endless,

As many instances as you can show in favour of the 9th, the same can be shown in

favour of the 10th. I think it's probably best to accept that we have opposing

views on this subject and remain friendly colleagues.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Wendy,The ongoing debate did arouse me out of my selfimposed slumber. In

agrarian and pastoral society, theson always took after his father, hence the

10thhouse. Today father acts only like a guru, hence 9thhouse. This is an

unending controversy and wont beresolved. A study was carried out in Journal of

Astrology. Theinteresting fact which emerged out was that the deathof father

took place in dasha/antardasha of planetsrelated to 10th, 3rd, 2nd and 8th

houses from the 9thhouse and also these positions from Sun, thesignificator of

father. This again resolves it infavour of the 9th house. Another study

suggested thatwhenever there is a dasha of sixth house in the chart,the father

prospers/fails in his profession. Sixthbeing, the 10th from 9th.regards,Manoj

[Guest guest]

Dear All ,

 

My two pence worth .

 

Why 9 th house is considered to show the father .

 

The father is the spouse of the mother . We see the children in the chart from

the 5 th house. Who is the son of the father ? If we take 10 th house to mean

father , then the lagna is 4 th from it .

 

Secondly , when a child is born the love of the mother gets shared between the

father and the child . Thus the spousal relationship suffers . This is shown by

the 6/8 aspect between 4 th house and the 9 th house .

 

When I study a chart I take both 9 and 10 for father and 3 and 4 for mother .

 

Regards,

 

Anand

 

-

GWBrennan (AT) aol (DOT) com

gjlist

Saturday, January 12, 2002 1:23 PM

Re: [GJ] 9th house

Dear Natabara It has seemed obvious to me that 9th house does not satisfy the

indication of father in all respects. For example how can 9th father and 4th

mother have a six/eight relationship in regard to production of children. 7/7

is necessary. It seems totally reasonable that 9th is father as mentor/guru

and 10th is father as physical parent. 1st is native, 4th mother, 7th wife and

10th father. After all 10th is where sins get manufatured and 9th is where that

is (hopefully) undone (12 house of loss from 10th). 10th is 2nd from 9th, where

father's (as guru's) advice helps to avoid mistakes and brings wealth. Regards

Gordon Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo ,

send an email to: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use

of is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

It is not to convince any body.

In North India 10th in general is accepted house of father. Whereas in south

India 9th is the accepted house of Father.

In BPHS one will find conflicting views about father as has been said in

Chander Kala Nadi a commentary on Dev Keralam . It refer to chapter 20 and

stanza four where it has been said that if 9th lord is in fall in 2nd from

9th or 4rth then father is poor.

But the same BPHS explains in chapter 11th that Respect ,Father ,foreign

residence, profession, sky shall be judged from the 10th house.

I started Astrology in 1970 and in my beginning years used 10th house for

father as others local Pundits were doing.

Those were the days when i did not use Bhava Kundli, simple interpretation

base on

rashi and at the maximum with Navmasha chart.

Astrology is a practical science and you shall not believe blindly on

scriptures. What you find should be visible to you or reject that argument.

Other argument in favor of 10th goes as it is 7th from the 4rth.

But my further studies and experience reveals that 9th is appropriate house

of father. But in compelling circumstances i do use 10th as the house of

father.

One such instance was some 6th year back. An issueless Indian couple based

at USA relative of my Chief Engineer adopted a child of unmarried girl from

Ludhiana. The recorded birth time was supplied by doctor to them.The couple

was interested to find out about the baby child future. The 1st thing which

strikes to my mind was that who are the parents to this baby ???

That unmarried girl , who kept it in her womb and that unknown fellow who

caused the birth of this baby. The answer flashed in to my mind .

No this who has adopted thischild is the mother of the child for all

purposes and look for this by the 4rth house and 10th is the house of father

for this baby and that is the gentleman who has adopted this child and will

cause the name and identity in the real world.

And to verify my finding i checked the past of the Couple by just applying

the Vishmotary dasha in past and every thing i told them was true.

But this was a different case, and i was using 9th house in general for

father except that i used 10th house for this father and that also placidus

bhava as is used in KP. It is easy to verify in KP because cusp point sub

lord by its constellation lord and by its relation with other planets will

reveal the nature of the person involved and you can verify that if it is

10th or 9th?

Even the nadi grantha reveal the same thing ;

Chanderkala Nadi page 17 says

TAVMEN TADISHEN SWAPITA JANAMBH VIDUH

meaning ninth house and its lord will reveal the ascendant of father.

The same nadi describes at page 25 again ;

"tritay shavsursathan"

i.e third is the house of father in law.

There are several instances in nadi literature which proves beyond doubt

that 9th is the house of father.

I can quote examples from Sapatrishi Nadi too.

Those who are in favor of 10th house for father start the count from 4rth

house whereas in the process of birth 4rth is last house. But for a new

arrival it is 1st place to live from where it complete its body and so it

is the house allotted to mother, house, property etc.But as our son is 5th

to us so to whom we are 5th is our father.

I close this discussion from my side but to realize that which house really

govern the father use bhava kundli too i will recommend sripati bhava .

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni