Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

More on Cap or Sag

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Members,

 

I´ve been looking over Shrila Prabhupada´s chart and I feel strongly

about my comments earlier. In the Capricorn chart, he would have to

have had several older siblings, including a brother. It seems

difficult to get around this.

 

In the chart with Sagittarius lagna, exalted Saturn in the 11th would

have limited the number of older siblings, and Venus in Virgo would

have held sway over the gender neutral Saturn and given a sister as

an older sibling.

 

I welcome comments. We have to get to the bottom of this.

 

Dharmapada

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste,

 

I know several natives who are the firstborns in their families of origin

who have multiple planets in their 11th house that need not indicate older

siblings. In fact I am doing someone's chart now who has Mo-Me-Ve in 11th.

He is eldest & has many female friends & has good luck with finances. My

father is eldest & he is wealthy & has three planets in eleventh too. 11th

house can signify friends & paternal uncle & side ventures. So I think we

need to look at many other issues here for Prabhupad besides 11th-sib

issues. I am happy to go deeper too, yes! So count me in on going deeper

with anyone on this list on any of these Vaisnavan Saints & Gurus. I was

thinking of doing my "spiritual jyotish thesis" on Prabhupad anyway.

 

I am not working too much this month so I am hoping to quickly page through

Prabhupad's 2000 page biography again in hopes of making a long list of key

dates in his life for any of us who are interested in finetune-rectify this

lovely mystery more intricately. On my deepest levels, however, I

personally don't really care if Prabhupad's lagna is Sag or Cap. He is who

He is, (God Realized Saint-Guru, my Spiriual Father) but it feels very

auspicious & blissful studying his life & energies of his charts even if we

work with it as an elevated form of speculative Eye Of Vedics science.

Studying saints can & does help me & any of us who are still groping in

maya!

I know Prabhupad had a few jyotihsis working on his chart even in his final

years, i.e. if it was advisable for him to travel to Vrindavan in his frail

medical state, but the higher truth is that he dovetailed everything in his

life in Devotion. I am still learning & practicing how to offer as much of

my 24-7-365 in devotion, even if it includes this rectification of

Prabhupad's charts.

 

I personally find studying the charts of various Saints & spiritualists

extremely powerful tools for my own sadhana & ever deepening faith. I do

not know who Prabhupad's jyotishis were, but would like to know that info

too if anyone knows, including the birth data of the jyotihis! As we study

more & more saintly natives committed to the spiritual path we are better

able to see jyotish for what it could be, the Divine Clock of spiritual

jyotish, a spiritual service that can perhaps give us a deeper clues to our

own stumbling blocks & stepping stones along the Journey of opening to

Brahman Realization, Paramatma Realization & Bhaghavan Realization. It lets

us know where we may yet be incomplete in our own spiritual process & where

we might yet go to purify our consciousness & conquer Maya.

 

I also recall thta KN Rao in several of his books cautioning jyotishis about

trying to do the charts of God Realized Saints who have largely transcended

Maya while here physically.

 

His servant,

Tara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Om Krsnaaya Namah

 

Dear Dharmapada,

 

Hare Krsna!

 

>

> I´ve been looking over Shrila Prabhupada´s chart and I feel strongly

> about my comments earlier. In the Capricorn chart, he would have to

> have had several older siblings, including a brother. It seems

> difficult to get around this.

 

I simply cannot agree with this. As I mentioned, the placement of the Lord

of the eleventh points to female siblings, and so essentially your argument

for an older brother appears to be based solely on the aspect of Mars to the

eleventh. Such an overly simplistic principle will not be correct 100% of

the time (see example below).

 

>

> In the chart with Sagittarius lagna, exalted Saturn in the 11th would

> have limited the number of older siblings, and Venus in Virgo would

> have held sway over the gender neutral Saturn and given a sister as

> an older sibling.

>

 

Fine, but just because an obvious affliction on the eleventh is not present,

it does mean that elder siblings will be numerous. On the other hand, I can

give you charts with Saturn in the eleventh where elder siblings do exist.

Please see the following chart, which is accurate:

 

*******************************************************

** * * **

* * KET * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * LEO* * GEM* *

* VIR** **TAU *

* * * LAG * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * MOO *

* * * * VEN * *

* * * CAN * * *

* * * * * *

* PLU LIB * ARI *

* * * * JUP * *

* * * CAP * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * *

* * * * * *

* SCO** **PIS *

* * SAG* * AQU* SUN *

* * * * * *

* * SAT * * * *

* * URA MAR * * MER * *

* * NEP * * RAH * *

** * * **

*******************************************************

 

The mulatrikona presence of natural and functional benefic (female) Moon on

the eleventh in a female sign, unaspected by any other planet should, going

by the logic you apply to Prabhupada's chart, have given the native of this

chart, a couple of elder sisters. However, this is the chart of my younger

brother and there are only two of us. Clearly the presence of the eleventh

lord in a male sign with a male planet has modified the results. Instead,

the chart indicates that the Moon may be prominent in my chart, which it is.

It is my atmakaraka, and occupies the Lagna in a parivartana yoga with the

Sun. So predicting elder brother's from the Capricorn chart, simply because

Mars's aspects his own eleventh is clearly an overly simplistic model of a

jyotish principle, and therefore of life itself. If you apply the same logic

in the Capricorn chart, as I have in my brother's chart (namely paying

attention to the eleventh lord), then elder sister's are indicated. I'm not

saying this is a foolproof method. Rather I'm pointing out that the basis of

your argument is weak, as it relies on one single aspect alone.

 

Look forward to comments,

 

Pursottam

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> > I´ve been looking over Shrila Prabhupada´s chart and I feel

strongly

> > about my comments earlier. In the Capricorn chart, he would have

to

> > have had several older siblings, including a brother. It seems

> > difficult to get around this.

>

> I simply cannot agree with this. As I mentioned, the placement of

the Lord

> of the eleventh points to female siblings, and so essentially your

argument

> for an older brother appears to be based solely on the aspect of

Mars to the

> eleventh. Such an overly simplistic principle will not be correct

100% of

> the time (see example below).

 

 

Purushottama Dasa,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Well, the chart which you offer as an example below is, of course,

different from Shrila Prabhupada's chart. I am not being

oversimplistic, I am employing good judgement specific to the

Capricorn chart. It is you who have oversimplified in the

interpretation of your brother's chart.

 

In his chart, Mars the bratru-karaka occupies a dushthana sixth with

Saturn. This limits the number of siblings, apparently to one, and

has given an " either or " situation in regard to gender.

 

And the sibling won't be younger because third-lord Mercury sits in

the eighth.

 

While it is true that a weak moon sits in the house of older

brothers, as you have mentioned, the 11th lord sits in a masculine

sign with amasculine planet. In addition, Bratru-karaka sits in a

masculine sign with the gender-neutral saturn. I admit that it is a

close call, but the masculine predominence can be understood.

 

 

> >

> > In the chart with Sagittarius lagna, exalted Saturn in the 11th

would

> > have limited the number of older siblings, and Venus in Virgo

would

> > have held sway over the gender neutral Saturn and given a sister

as

> > an older sibling.

> >

>

> Fine, but just because an obvious affliction on the eleventh is not

present,

> it does mean that elder siblings will be numerous.

 

No, but in the Capricorn chart, they would be. Consider the

following: there is nothing really ugly in relation to dushthanas

come into play, no limiting factor of Rahu or Saturn, but there is an

aspect from the house's own lord and bratru-karaka from a benefic

house with an exalted moon which has some paksha bala to it. A very

fruitful situation is present in relation to the eleventh and

brothers in general in the Capricorn chart. There would have to be

older brothers and sisters in that chart.

 

On the other hand, I can

> give you charts with Saturn in the eleventh where elder siblings do

exist.

 

Of course, all factors have to be taken into consideration. I have

done that well and given justification. In general, the overwhelming

judgement in relation to Saturn is that he is the planet of

limitation and delay.

 

I didn't look at one single aspect, I made quite a few comments. I

really think that you oversimplified in your comments on both charts,

as I have just pointed out.

 

The fact that Shrila Prabhupada only had one older sister is

justified in the Sagittarius chart, but this is not justifiable in

the Capricorn chart at all. And this is not hard to see-I

haveexplained why.

 

YS,

 

Dharmapada Dasa

 

 

 

> Please see the following chart, which is accurate:

>

> *******************************************************

> ** * * **

> * * KET * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * LEO* * GEM* *

> * VIR** **TAU *

> * * * LAG * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * MOO *

> * * * * VEN * *

> * * * CAN * * *

> * * * * * *

> * PLU LIB * ARI *

> * * * * JUP * *

> * * * CAP * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * * * * * *

> * SCO** **PIS *

> * * SAG* * AQU* SUN *

> * * * * * *

> * * SAT * * * *

> * * URA MAR * * MER * *

> * * NEP * * RAH * *

> ** * * **

> *******************************************************

>

> The mulatrikona presence of natural and functional benefic (female)

Moon on

> the eleventh in a female sign, unaspected by any other planet

should, going

> by the logic you apply to Prabhupada's chart, have given the native

of this

> chart, a couple of elder sisters. However, this is the chart of my

younger

> brother and there are only two of us. Clearly the presence of the

eleventh

> lord in a male sign with a male planet has modified the results.

Instead,

> the chart indicates that the Moon may be prominent in my chart,

which it is.

> It is my atmakaraka, and occupies the Lagna in a parivartana yoga

with the

> Sun. So predicting elder brother's from the Capricorn chart, simply

because

> Mars's aspects his own eleventh is clearly an overly simplistic

model of a

> jyotish principle, and therefore of life itself. If you apply the

same logic

> in the Capricorn chart, as I have in my brother's chart (namely

paying

> attention to the eleventh lord), then elder sister's are indicated.

I'm not

> saying this is a foolproof method. Rather I'm pointing out that the

basis of

> your argument is weak, as it relies on one single aspect alone.

>

> Look forward to comments,

>

> Pursottam

>

>

> _______

>

> Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Om Krsnaaya Namah

 

Dear Dharmapada,

 

Hare Krsna! Thank you for your comments. Here we go:

 

>

>

> Purushottama Dasa,

>

 

Not actually my name, but that is what I aspire to be - "Servant of the

Supreme Person" :-)

 

>

> In his chart, Mars the bratru-karaka occupies a dushthana sixth with

> Saturn. This limits the number of siblings, apparently to one, and

> has given an " either or " situation in regard to gender.

>

 

Firstly there are different opinions on who is the karaka for elder

siblings - Mars or Jupiter. I have seen both work sometimes in my research,

and don't have a strong fixed opinion on this yet. But assuming for

argument's sake it is Mars, as you say, does the one or two negative

influence on the karaka of siblings overwhelm the benefic influences on the

eleventh and it's lord? Such limitations may also be found in the Capricorn

chart, where the eleventh Lord who is also Mars, is associated with the

Moon, and this being a Krsna Navami birth, the Moon is a malefic as per

standard Parasari astrology.

 

> And the sibling won't be younger because third-lord Mercury sits in

> the eighth.

 

Yes.

 

>

> While it is true that a weak moon sits in the house of older

> brothers, as you have mentioned, the 11th lord sits in a masculine

> sign with amasculine planet. In addition, Bratru-karaka sits in a

> masculine sign with the gender-neutral saturn. I admit that it is a

> close call, but the masculine predominence can be understood.

>

 

This was my point. This logic applies in total to Srila Prabhupada's chart,

and explains a sister - the eleventh lord and Mars (same thing) sits in a

female sign with a strong female planet. So the idea of an elder brother is

contradicted by this fact, as it is in my brother's chart, and therefore it

is a close call in Prabhupada's chart, and feminine predominance can be

understood in the Capricorn Lagna also.

 

 

>

> No, but in the Capricorn chart, they would be. Consider the

> following: there is nothing really ugly in relation to dushthanas

> come into play, no limiting factor of Rahu or Saturn, but there is an

> aspect from the house's own lord and bratru-karaka from a benefic

> house with an exalted moon which has some paksha bala to it. A very

> fruitful situation is present in relation to the eleventh and

> brothers in general in the Capricorn chart. There would have to be

> older brothers and sisters in that chart.

>

 

There was an older sister as you, but I the Moon's association and aspect

with the eleventh lord and to the eleventh house respectively, does limit

siblings, because it is a natural malefic. And it is a female planet,

associated with the eleventh lord in a female sign and aspecting the

eleventh house. Supports a sister.

 

>

> I didn't look at one single aspect, I made quite a few comments. I

> really think that you oversimplified in your comments on both charts,

> as I have just pointed out.

>

 

Your view of the eighth house as being just evil in the Capricorn chart is a

major simplification, IMHO. As regards the single fact - so far you have

only suggested the aspect of Mars to it's own sign suggests brothers. This

is the single factor I have counted - and I have seen such single factors

fail many times, therefore I am reluctant to accept a conclusion based on

it.

 

 

> The fact that Shrila Prabhupada only had one older sister is

> justified in the Sagittarius chart, but this is not justifiable in

> the Capricorn chart at all. And this is not hard to see-I

> haveexplained why.

>

 

And to me this is completely justifiable in the Capricorn chart, as I have

explained why, using the same logic which you agree applies in my brother's

chart also.

 

Haribol!,

 

Pursottam

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> > In his chart, Mars the bratru-karaka occupies a dushthana sixth

with

> > Saturn. This limits the number of siblings, apparently to one, and

> > has given an " either or " situation in regard to gender.

> >

>

> Firstly there are different opinions on who is the karaka for elder

> siblings - Mars or Jupiter. I have seen both work sometimes in my

research,

> and don't have a strong fixed opinion on this yet.

 

Purushottama,

 

You can be Purushottama Dasa, I have no complaints about this.

 

But the overwhelming opinion of millenia of astrological experience,

as well as Parashara Rishi's affirmation, point to Mars as the Bratru

karaka.

 

Now here you haven't gotten the karaka straight, which a minimum of

experience confirms, and you are writing on some pretty deep stuff

here. I am becoming uncomfortable with our discussion.

 

 

 

Snip

 

> This was my point. This logic applies in total to Srila

Prabhupada's chart,

 

It does not. In your brother's chart, there is obvious justification

for only one sibling, that is where the one-or-the other situation

arose, such that a brother resulted.

 

In the Capricorn lagna chart, both the Moon as well as Mars would

have manifested their tendencies unhindered, there would have been

birth of both brothers and sisters.

 

 

> and explains a sister - the eleventh lord and Mars (same thing)

sits in a

> female sign with a strong female planet. So the idea of an elder

brother is

> contradicted by this fact, as it is in my brother's chart, and

therefore it

> is a close call in Prabhupada's chart, and feminine predominance

can be

> understood in the Capricorn Lagna also.

>

>

> >

> > No, but in the Capricorn chart, they would be. Consider the

> > following: there is nothing really ugly in relation to dushthanas

> > come into play, no limiting factor of Rahu or Saturn, but there

is an

> > aspect from the house's own lord and bratru-karaka from a benefic

> > house with an exalted moon which has some paksha bala to it. A

very

> > fruitful situation is present in relation to the eleventh and

> > brothers in general in the Capricorn chart. There would have to be

> > older brothers and sisters in that chart.

> >

>

> There was an older sister as you, but I the Moon's association and

aspect

> with the eleventh lord and to the eleventh house respectively, does

limit

> siblings, because it is a natural malefic.

 

The moon was at near-enough to half of its brightness, exalted and in

the Capricorn chart in the fifth house, a trine. And you define the

Moon as a natural malefic and stipulate that its influence is a

limiting factor on older siblings?

 

I keep running across sub-standard interpretation with you, and it is

as exasperating as it is flabbergasting. I am sorry to criticise this

way publicly, but the chart is an important one and, on the internet,

one's comments simply have to stand or fall based on their ownmer it.

 

I think that we'll have to say that you feel that Capricorn is the

lagna for Shrila Prabhupada as a person who " interprets " the way

you do, and then say that anyone who wants to agree with you is more

than welcome.

 

Later,

 

Dharmapada

 

 

 

And it is a female planet,

> associated with the eleventh lord in a female sign and aspecting the

> eleventh house. Supports a sister.

>

> >

> > I didn't look at one single aspect, I made quite a few comments. I

> > really think that you oversimplified in your comments on both

charts,

> > as I have just pointed out.

> >

>

> Your view of the eighth house as being just evil in the Capricorn

chart is a

> major simplification, IMHO. As regards the single fact - so far you

have

> only suggested the aspect of Mars to it's own sign suggests

brothers. This

> is the single factor I have counted - and I have seen such single

factors

> fail many times, therefore I am reluctant to accept a conclusion

based on

> it.

>

>

> > The fact that Shrila Prabhupada only had one older sister is

> > justified in the Sagittarius chart, but this is not justifiable in

> > the Capricorn chart at all. And this is not hard to see-I

> > haveexplained why.

> >

>

> And to me this is completely justifiable in the Capricorn chart, as

I have

> explained why, using the same logic which you agree applies in my

brother's

> chart also.

>

> Haribol!,

>

> Pursottam

>

>

> _______

>

> Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Om Krsnaaya Namah

 

Dear Dharmapada,

 

>

> But the overwhelming opinion of millenia of astrological experience,

> as well as Parashara Rishi's affirmation, point to Mars as the Bratru

> karaka.

>

 

I have no problem accepting Mars as the karaka for younger siblings. But I

prefer to take Jupiter as the karaka for elder siblings, and this is

supported by Jyotishi's such as Hart deFouw and James Braha.

 

> Now here you haven't gotten the karaka straight, which a minimum of

> experience confirms, and you are writing on some pretty deep stuff

> here. I am becoming uncomfortable with our discussion.

>

>

 

There are many (accomplished) astrologers in the world who do not agree with

you in the matter of Mars signifying the elder siblings. Just because one

does not agree with you, does not mean they are necessarily wrong. With

regards to the "deep stuff" - In my discussion with you, I have deliberately

mentioned only the planets, signs, houses and planetary aspects in the rasi

chart - the bare bones of jyotish - because I knew that you would say I was

using "deep stuff" and "sub-standard interpretation" if other techniques

were used. In my discussion with Robert Koch, I have mentioned concepts such

as arudha's, rasi drishti's and vargas, because Robert asked me to consider

these, and being his student, I know he has experience with these techniques

and so can guide me in their use. It has all been Parasari jyotish, and I

reiterate the fact that in my discussion with you, I have used the very

basics of jyotish. So I fail to see where, "deep stuff" has come into it,

especially when I have supported my points with quotes from jyotish sastras

where I felt it was necessary.

 

Personally I see some of the arguments you make as being too shallow - the

eighth house is just evil, the aspect of Mars and his association with the

Moon guarantees a brother etc. Simple rules like this do not always work on

most charts. The eighth is very often involved in *sudden* rise to power, in

the horosopes of spiritualists etc.

 

Furthermore, you still haven't answered answered my question on the (lack

of) weakness of the seventh house in the Sag chart resulting in marital

failure. In the Cap chart, it is obvious. The seventh Lord, though exalted

is in conjunction with malefic Mars, and is in Bala avastha. The exaltation

simply prolonged the length of marriage. Saturn also aspects the seventh,

and so when Saturn dasha came, and Saturn returned to his natal place in

transit, marriage broke down. Show me such explicit weakness of the seventh

and seventh Lord in the Sag chart.

 

>

> It does not. In your brother's chart, there is obvious justification

> for only one sibling, that is where the one-or-the other situation

> arose, such that a brother resulted.

>

 

In the Capricorn chart where I see Jupiter as weak karaka for elder

siblings, a limit on the number is placed. Here the feminine factors clearly

outweigh the rest, and so an elder sister was the result.

 

>

> The moon was at near-enough to half of its brightness, exalted and in

> the Capricorn chart in the fifth house, a trine. And you define the

> Moon as a natural malefic and stipulate that its influence is a

> limiting factor on older siblings?

>

 

I consider the Moon to be excellent as far as it's participation in and

manifestation of raja and dhana yogas is concerned, but it is still a mild

natural malefic as it's navami of Krsna paksa. This does contributute to the

limitation of elder siblings, but allowed the existance of an elder sister,

whereas a hard malefic like Rahu, or Saturn would have prevented it

completely.

 

> I keep running across sub-standard interpretation with you, and it is

 

Which bits of my interpretation? In my first post on this topic, I stuck

strictly to signs, planets, houses, and the rasi chart. Robert asked me to

look deeper into the charts, which I did in my posts directed to him, but in

my discussion with you, it has been the basics. As I've said, I consider

some of your points to be "sub-standard" as well.

 

Peace in Krsna-Bhakti!

 

Pursottam

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gjlist, "Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia> wrote:

> Om Krsnaaya Namah

>

> Dear Dharmapada,

>

> >

> > But the overwhelming opinion of millenia of astrological

experience,

> > as well as Parashara Rishi's affirmation, point to Mars as the

Bratru

> > karaka.

> >

>

> I have no problem accepting Mars as the karaka for younger

siblings. But I

> prefer to take Jupiter as the karaka for elder siblings, and this is

> supported by Jyotishi's such as Hart deFouw and James Braha.

 

 

Purushottama,

 

None of the Vedic classics project this view, and through the

millenia the Hindu astrologers who have tweaked Vedic astrology have

not found this to be the case. So the rest of the list members may

note that your case partially rests on the authority of Hart de Fouw

and James Braha.

 

 

> > Now here you haven't gotten the karaka straight, which a minimum

of

> > experience confirms, and you are writing on some pretty deep stuff

> > here. I am becoming uncomfortable with our discussion.

> >

> >

>

> There are many (accomplished) astrologers in the world who do not

agree with

> you in the matter of Mars signifying the elder siblings. Just

because one

> does not agree with you, does not mean they are necessarily wrong.

 

 

On the experience of the main body of Hindu astrologers throughout

the millenia and the classics, I disagree. Jupiter can't maintain any

status as a significator of older brothers.

 

 

 

With

> regards to the "deep stuff" - In my discussion with you, I have

deliberately

> mentioned only the planets, signs, houses and planetary aspects in

the rasi

> chart - the bare bones of jyotish

 

 

Bare bones, no. That concept will lead you to overvalue secondary

indicators and make mistakes. Here is something that I wrote once-

 

" It is important that that the navamsha and other subdivisions do

not exactly jump up and contradict indications in the main chart.

Rather, they are secondary, helpful for making decisions on the

margin. Dr. B.V. Raman confirms this in the purport of the 32th

verse, 27th chapter of Prashna Marg, wherein he states:

 

' Further, the navamsha may be referred to only when the rashi (

sign placement ) is satisfactory. Here, since the rashi ( main )

chart itself does not ensure happiness ( Happiness was the prasna

question in this case ), the navamsha may be shelved. ' Keep in mind

that Dr. Raman is an astrologer who, throughout the long run of his

literary career, had always considered navamsha position. In all of

his books the navamsha is printed right alongside the the main chart,

and its indications are examined. The same format has been followed

in his astrological magazine, which he has been editing for more than

a half a century now. So when a man such as this tells us that, when

the sign consideration in the main chart does not support a certain

consideration that the navamsha doesn't have the authority to change

things, then we don't want to take such advise lightly."

 

If you can't account for the fact that the Capricorn chart indicates

various older siblings, including a brother; and if you can't tell

the difference a vipreet effect and an affliction; and if you can't

tell the difference between a Guru Chandala yoga and a combination

for Moksha in the rashi chakra, then what are you going to

substantiate in the secondary charts?

 

Your interpretation has not been alonggenerally accepoted lines. It

really seems as if you are having to grab things off the wall in

order to justify your opinions.

 

I am sorry to be so adamant, but Hindu astrology has been conserved

the way that the maha rishis gave it to us millenia ago. That is

because the Hindus have been careful with it. If we do the way that

you are doing, then we'll lose it before a century goes by. You're

almost as bad as the gypsies with the tarot cards.

 

Dharmapada

 

 

 

- because I knew that you would say I was

> using "deep stuff" and "sub-standard interpretation" if other

techniques

> were used. In my discussion with Robert Koch, I have mentioned

concepts such

> as arudha's, rasi drishti's and vargas, because Robert asked me to

consider

> these, and being his student, I know he has experience with these

techniques

> and so can guide me in their use. It has all been Parasari jyotish,

and I

> reiterate the fact that in my discussion with you, I have used the

very

> basics of jyotish. So I fail to see where, "deep stuff" has come

into it,

> especially when I have supported my points with quotes from jyotish

sastras

> where I felt it was necessary.

>

> Personally I see some of the arguments you make as being too

shallow - the

> eighth house is just evil, the aspect of Mars and his association

with the

> Moon guarantees a brother etc. Simple rules like this do not always

work on

> most charts. The eighth is very often involved in *sudden* rise to

power, in

> the horosopes of spiritualists etc.

>

> Furthermore, you still haven't answered answered my question on the

(lack

> of) weakness of the seventh house in the Sag chart resulting in

marital

> failure. In the Cap chart, it is obvious. The seventh Lord, though

exalted

> is in conjunction with malefic Mars, and is in Bala avastha. The

exaltation

> simply prolonged the length of marriage. Saturn also aspects the

seventh,

> and so when Saturn dasha came, and Saturn returned to his natal

place in

> transit, marriage broke down. Show me such explicit weakness of the

seventh

> and seventh Lord in the Sag chart.

>

> >

> > It does not. In your brother's chart, there is obvious

justification

> > for only one sibling, that is where the one-or-the other situation

> > arose, such that a brother resulted.

> >

>

> In the Capricorn chart where I see Jupiter as weak karaka for elder

> siblings, a limit on the number is placed. Here the feminine

factors clearly

> outweigh the rest, and so an elder sister was the result.

>

> >

> > The moon was at near-enough to half of its brightness, exalted

and in

> > the Capricorn chart in the fifth house, a trine. And you define

the

> > Moon as a natural malefic and stipulate that its influence is a

> > limiting factor on older siblings?

> >

>

> I consider the Moon to be excellent as far as it's participation in

and

> manifestation of raja and dhana yogas is concerned, but it is still

a mild

> natural malefic as it's navami of Krsna paksa. This does

contributute to the

> limitation of elder siblings, but allowed the existance of an elder

sister,

> whereas a hard malefic like Rahu, or Saturn would have prevented it

> completely.

>

> > I keep running across sub-standard interpretation with you, and

it is

>

> Which bits of my interpretation? In my first post on this topic, I

stuck

> strictly to signs, planets, houses, and the rasi chart. Robert

asked me to

> look deeper into the charts, which I did in my posts directed to

him, but in

> my discussion with you, it has been the basics. As I've said, I

consider

> some of your points to be "sub-standard" as well.

>

> Peace in Krsna-Bhakti!

>

> Pursottam

>

>

> _______

>

> Get your free @ address at

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Purshottam,

 

 

> I have no problem accepting Mars as the karaka for younger

siblings. But I

> prefer to take Jupiter as the karaka for elder siblings, and this is

> supported by Jyotishi's such as Hart deFouw and James Braha.

 

Supported by Hart deFouw and James Braha is enuf to comprehend urself.

Hmm, intersting:-)

 

Here u go:

Ref:vedic astrology/message/8326

 

I am pasting it again.

<start>The word in the tradition itself is "adhikaara". Even recent

teachers of Vedic shaastras, such as Adi Shankara and

SaayaNa, discuss this term at length: Who has adhikaara, who

doesn't? Who grants to any such a "powerful priviledge"?

 

And the shaastras are quite clear on this issue: one who

sincerely engages in yogic saadhanaa and really practices

the particular subject is granted "adhikaara" on the subject

in due time by his peers. Mere readers, writers, and

translators have no authority on the subject. I feel that

this social rule, common in any field of human activity,

stems from the declarations of Taittiriya upanishad, chapter

1. Max Muller and his peers were notable for violating this

rule. Hence the current muddle in the English west with

respect to Vaidika shaastras.</start>

 

Best Regards, Venkat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...