Get ahold of yourselves!

September 16, 2001

Dear Jyotishis,

Namaste -

The following is my personal opinion, take it for what its worth: This is

a list for astrologers, particularly the elite group we call

"Jyotishis". A Jyotishi is more than an astrologer - he/she, as a

visionary in truth, is a modern day prophet as it were, who can give

definition to the movements of karmas, whether they be individual or

collective. This is a unique function, and only a few have the destiny to

take this study a long way, i.e. to use it in a ministerial manner. Those

who do, will "minister" to the minds/hearts of the broader masses, who find

themselves confused and in fear, especially now in light of this week's

terrible events.

So my question to all of you is: why has our conversation, in this group,

mostly been centered around expression of political views, mostly without

astrological observations, in a rather hostile and combative

environment? The call now to all those who hold this higher knowledge, is

to increase our spiritual practise (Sadhana) and become very aware of the

planetary interrelationships which shall decide the unfolding of events to

come. People come to us for knowledge, clarity, and vision. If among

ourselves, we bicker, and express mutually hostile language, which is

really beneath the knowledge of *anybody* on this list, then what will we

do when people come to us for answers when things get really bad? And they

will get really bad.

My feeling is that we should engage in an intense astrological analysis of

all relevant factors to the war which is about to begin. Such as: the

charts of world leaders, particularly that of President Bush and his

cabinet members, given the availability of sound birth data; incident

charts, such as of the terrorist attacks in NYC, retaliatory attacks on

Afghanistan, or the beginning of a ground war over there. Also relevant,

are New Moon charts for the US, as well as Aries solar ingress charts, of

the US as well as other countries. Lets try to find the congruities or

incongruities between the charts of Bush, Saddam Hussein ( who will, by the

way, enter the fray), Musharaff of Pakistan, etc. Dasa periods correlating

all situations in event, as well as birth charts, will give the

timings. And moreover, what is the collective karma, can it be defined,

and what will the world be like after the war has ended?

To be honest with you, the western astrology lists have us beat by a mile

on this kind of discussion *so far*. We're the ones holding the keys to

Jyotish, a Vedanga, in which many truths can be foretold. So lets rise to

the occasion, and put to use what we have been given, and drop the endless

and accusatory rhetoric to doesn't benefit anybody.

Best wishes,

Robert

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk and

rkoch rkoch

September 16, 2001

Hear, hear.

-

"Robert A. Koch" <rkoch

Sunday, September 16, 2001 3:42 PM

[gjlist] Get ahold of yourselves!

> Dear Jyotishis,

>

> Namaste -

>

> The following is my personal opinion, take it for what its worth: This is

> a list for astrologers, particularly the elite group we call

> "Jyotishis". A Jyotishi is more than an astrologer - he/she, as a

> visionary in truth, is a modern day prophet as it were, who can give

> definition to the movements of karmas, whether they be individual or

> collective. This is a unique function, and only a few have the destiny to

> take this study a long way, i.e. to use it in a ministerial manner. Those

> who do, will "minister" to the minds/hearts of the broader masses, who

find

> themselves confused and in fear, especially now in light of this week's

> terrible events.

>

> So my question to all of you is: why has our conversation, in this group,

> mostly been centered around expression of political views, mostly without

> astrological observations, in a rather hostile and combative

> environment? The call now to all those who hold this higher knowledge, is

> to increase our spiritual practise (Sadhana) and become very aware of the

> planetary interrelationships which shall decide the unfolding of events to

> come. People come to us for knowledge, clarity, and vision. If among

> ourselves, we bicker, and express mutually hostile language, which is

> really beneath the knowledge of *anybody* on this list, then what will we

> do when people come to us for answers when things get really bad? And

they

> will get really bad.

>

> My feeling is that we should engage in an intense astrological analysis of

> all relevant factors to the war which is about to begin. Such as: the

> charts of world leaders, particularly that of President Bush and his

> cabinet members, given the availability of sound birth data; incident

> charts, such as of the terrorist attacks in NYC, retaliatory attacks on

> Afghanistan, or the beginning of a ground war over there. Also relevant,

> are New Moon charts for the US, as well as Aries solar ingress charts, of

> the US as well as other countries. Lets try to find the congruities or

> incongruities between the charts of Bush, Saddam Hussein ( who will, by

the

> way, enter the fray), Musharaff of Pakistan, etc. Dasa periods

correlating

> all situations in event, as well as birth charts, will give the

> timings. And moreover, what is the collective karma, can it be defined,

> and what will the world be like after the war has ended?

>

> To be honest with you, the western astrology lists have us beat by a mile

> on this kind of discussion *so far*. We're the ones holding the keys to

> Jyotish, a Vedanga, in which many truths can be foretold. So lets rise to

> the occasion, and put to use what we have been given, and drop the endless

> and accusatory rhetoric to doesn't benefit anybody.

>

> Best wishes,

> Robert

>

> =====================================

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

> Bend, OR. 97701-9037

> Phone: 541-318-0248

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

> rk. rk and

> rkoch rkoch

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

September 16, 2001

In light of Robert's call to action, I thought the following might be of

note as we seek to focus on the subjects we need to analyze. Stratford is a

first rate intelligence source, and its analysis can be trusted. Today's

posting from them follows:

Julia

S T R A T F O RTHE GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE

COMPANY__16 September

2001COMPLIMENTARY INTELLIGENCE REPORT - FULL

TEXT__**NOTE**This is a

complimentary full-text intelligence report, normally reserved for members

only. For full-text reports every day and access to the full range of global

intelligence, become a member today!

http://www.stratfor.com/COMPANY/info.htm__

________________U.S. Faces Islamic Radical Network2100 GMT,

010916SummaryThis week's terrorist attacks demonstrate clearly for the first

time the existence of a multi-national, global network of Islamic radicals

and their sympathizers. The United States is gearing up for war against an

enemy that may span half the globe and is comprised of thousands individuals

and different organizations.

Analysis: The United States has declared war on international terrorism. In

his weekly radio address Sept. 15 U.S. President George W. Bush warned

Americans to brace themselves for "a conflict without battlefields or

beachheads," and called on U.S. military personnel to get ready for battle.

The president earlier met with his top security advisors at Camp David in

order to hammer out a U.S. military response to the Sept. 11 terrorist

attacks on the United States.Identifying the enemy, however, will be neither

simple nor straightforward.

A number of officials including U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell have

named Saudi exile Osama bin Laden as the chief suspect. But evidence

suggests that while his umbrella organization Al-Qaida was involved at some

point, bin Laden himself isn't likely the mastermind behind the attacks. The

skill and scope of the operation indicates that more than one base of

support was necessary. The operational resources required to pull off this

week's attacks indicate the existence of a much larger threat, a

multi-national radical Islamic network with operatives and sympathizers all

across the globe. Such a network likely connects a variety of Islamic

radical and terrorist groups.

Understanding this is the key to Washington's warfighting strategy. In

aiming to dismantle the infrastructure supporting terrorist groups, the

United States will now begin focusing efforts on identifying members and

supporters of this global network. Bin Laden and Al-Qaida will likely be

only the first targets.As the world's most notorious terrorist leader bin

Laden has provided training, logistics and support to a host of Islamic

radicals including Algerian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Pakistani, Sudanese,

Syrian and Yemeni nationals. His training camps in Afghanistan provide a

basis for learning the tools and techniques of terrorism. In a way bin Laden

could be thought of as the president of a university devoted to the

education of radical Islamic terrorists.

But taking out bin Laden won't end the threat of more terrorist attacks

against the United States, since logic dictates that Al-Qaida could not have

been the only organization involved in the Sept. 11 strikes.Like any

business venture, no one group would be able to supply all the resources.

Instead, various aspects of the operation would be farmed out to different

groups or individuals within the network. Al-Qaida as an umbrella

organization is but one group within a network of radical Islamic

organizations that stretches from Cairo to Manila, from Kabul to Algiers.

The sheer scope and skill with which the operations were carried out

required several levels of planning, organizing, intelligence and

operational experience and capabilities.

The masterminds behind this week's operation began forming their attack plan

years ago. They then needed to locate funding and likely turned to

sympathetic financiers who could arrange for aid from even more sympathetic

donors. The planners also set up separate departments with directors to

handle counterintelligence, logistics, training, diplomatic covers and

passports, finances and recruitment. At the same time, security is

maintained by isolating each department from the others so that the

organization is not compromised.Each division required support from a

variety of sources, which neither bin Laden nor his network could provide.

In fact, to say bin Laden himself masterminded the assault overlooks some

important limitations under which he is currently operating. For one he is

trapped in Afghanistan and is limited in what he can do. The Saudi dissident

cannot even make phone calls and has had to resort to courier services in

order to communicate with his associates. For years, the United States

tracked communications in country and listened in on his phone conversations

made over the Immarsat-3 satellite telephone network. Directing an operation

like the one that took place Sept. 11 would require flexible management that

could adapt to a variety of situations, necessitating quick and reliable

means of communication.

Even financing the operation would have required resources beyond bin Laden

and Al-Qaida's ability. According to U.S. officials quoted by United Press

International, Washington had bin Laden's financial and operational networks

almost "completely mapped" out in detail by mid-1997. This suggest that bin

Laden's finances have been at most severely limited and at least under

constant surveillance. It would have been impossible for his bankers to wire

money to operatives in the United States without tipping off U.S.

intelligence agencies. Clearly, bin Laden could not have financed this

week's operation alone. Al-Qaida could have easily provided training and

perhaps even recruits.

But there are several other organizations that could also be tapped for

intelligence, logistical assistance, operational planning and financing. For

example, the Egyptian group al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya orchestrated the bombing

of the World Trade Center in 1993 and has experience operating in the United

States. It also has links to Egyptian intelligence and business leaders who

travel frequently and could provide information on airline security

standards in the United States.Another example can be seen in the bombing of

the USS Cole in Yemen last October. The group blamed for that attack has

been linked to bin Laden, but there is no evidence that it acted directly

under his command. That group, like the recent attackers, employed crude

tactics and weapons in a sophisticated manner to cause massive damage. It

managed to severely damage a U.S. destroyer, not to mention the U.S. sense

of dominance, with a rubber inflatable boat.

Indeed, there are hundreds of radical Islamic organizations operating around

the world, all individual and distinct from each other, that could have

provided support. Although in the past a majority focused on local issues

and did not operate beyond their national borders, a new picture is now

emerging. This picture is one of a global network tying all Islamic groups

together in a loose coalition. Like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, this

network is comprised of organizations and sympathetic individuals from all

over the Muslim world, including financiers and aid donors, government

officials and diplomats, former and possibly current military officers,

intelligence agents, former and current guerrilla and militant groups,

information technology specialists and operational commanders and their

lieutenants. It is then quite possible that the group that masterminded the

Sept. 11 terror attacks is comprised of a collection of individuals from

several different countries. Indeed, the FBI's list of suspects reads like a

student roster from the renowned Al-Ahzar University in Cairo. The

operatives who carried out the attack came from countries across the Middle

East, including possibly Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab

Emirates. There was no local issue tying them all together. The United

States thinks it is going to war with bin Laden, Al-Qaida or the unnamed

group directly responsible for this week's attacks. But taking down the

infrastructure supporting these groups will require the U.S. to identify and

dismantle the larger, global network. That, like dismantling the drug

trafficking networks in Latin America, West Africa or Europe, will be a

monumental

task.__<<<<<<<<<<<<

September 16, 2001

Robert A. Koch

Thank you so much! I have d to this group for 7 days. After reading

what was here, with so much speculation and so little astrology, I was ready

to drop this group and stick with my Western Astrology roots. I don't really

care that you may differ on interpretation, I wish to understand how you

analyze charts. This is the perfect moment to concentrate on Mundane and

Personal astrology.

Thanks again!

AL MArtin

-

Robert A. Koch <rkoch