Nostradamus/ free-will/ esoteric , astrolgy etc.

[Guest guest]

Hans Hopfgartner wrote:

> For a final clarification:

>

> The socalled Nostradamus prophecy was published as an essay by a

> college student:

 

Dear Hans

 

Thanks for this clarification. There areundreds of interpretations of

nostradamus, also two versions of the original, as far as I know. I have read

many and this particular "quatrain" was totally strange to me! Am glad to hear

that it was invented.

 

The student has a good point, though I don´t agree about the monkeys writing

shakespeare: the chances are 1: infinity and therefore zero!

 

Nostradamus was essentially a physician. But he apparently also belonged to a

group of people connected with the cathari, templars and rosicrucians. Both as

physician and as an "amateur" astrologer - more clairvoyant - he obtained

favour, but these esoteric connections were dangerous for him.

 

The legend - or truth - is that Nostradamus wrote the quatrains and then

deliberately jumbled them up, to prevent straight interpretation. In his letter

to his son he says that there is hidden clue as to how to interpret the verses.

Many attempts have been made to find this clue, but nobody has truly found it.

 

Apparently his immediate predictions came true and gained him fame. But it is

not certain that his complete predictions were published during his life. It is

more likely that his son published them after his death.

 

Two questions arise: why did he write the quatrains, and why did he jumble them

up?

 

It is a bit too questionable to say he wrote so many verses - vague and

uncertain in meaning - reaching upto AD 3800 or so, only for the "fun of it"!

Just to be famous for so long? a few telling verses for his own time would have

been enough.

 

Why did he jumble them up, so that no cogent historical interpretation is

possible?

 

IMHO: he saw visions, many of which he could not himself understand. Like St.

John in the Apokalypse. He did not know about submarines, but what he saw was

for him a metal fish!

 

But was he doing right by prophesying? Was it not interfering with God´s plan?

The conflict between fate and free-will! Nowhere - depending on my poor French -

does he talk of the "end of the world"! On the other hand he holds out hope

after much suffering. If things had been totally foreseen, why did God give him

this vision? Yet, if his words led to some crucial figure in history changing

the course of events, doing something or refraining from some planned deed, the

course of history would be changed - most likely tremendously! What if Hitler

had USED the Jews, their wealth, knowledge and industriousness to conquer the

world - and then oppress it???

 

It was perhaps this uncertainty that led nostradamus to mix up the message. He

had revealed yet not revealed!

 

Many of the quatrains DO show very good descriptions of what happened, but many

have been interpreted by so many in different ways. Many such interpretations

are ridiculous and impossible to accept. One American has interpreted any number

of the quatrains as applying to California (or some US state) as if these were

orld-shaking events! Nostradamus did not know anything about the political

divisions of our present world, New York was not founded till a 100 years later!

 

I am sure that his prophecies were more or less good, but neither the time nor

the event really foreseen can be deciphered - till VERY CLEAR EVENTS OCCUR, with

Names! The key has not been found, though almost every year a new book appears

that claims this has been done!

 

The esoteric side: the student just invents a quatrain - and this somehow seems

to be true shortly after! A group of people in Germany, who regularly conducted

seances, made an experiment some years ago. I don´t remember all details, but it

went so: 2 or 3 members "invented" a dead soul: gave him a name, a history and

prrofession etc. and concentrated mentally on this configuration. The other

members of the group did not know these details, only that the experiment was

being made. At a seance later suddenly this invented "soul" started talking to

them! He gave answers to questions, but became aggressive when asked about his

authenticity. They had created a "monster soul".

 

This certainly supports what Kryon repeatedly says: we create!

 

 

free- will: Dear Wendy and Sanjay, this is not a thing we can ever settle by

arguments or by logic. ALL arguments are equally "convincing" and legitimate.

But the result - logically! - can never be determined in our dimension. It is

like the search for the smallest particle in cosmos. Once it was the molecule,

then the atom, then quarks etc. No matter how small a particle any scientist

finds, WHERE IS THE GUARANTEE THAT A SCIENTIST 100 YEARS LATER WILL NOT FIND A

SMALLER ON? Besides that we are already faced with paradoxes: you "split" a

tiny parzicle into two, but find each of the parts is as big as the one you

split! They hould each be half the size of the original, but are not!

 

How can we ever say what is fate and what is free-will? If the idea of total

freedom is an illusion (Maya), the idea of any freedom can be illusion. So also

can the idea of total -or partial- fate be an illusion! We can only have

opinions, but it is useless to debate. Or is the debate predestined? Is sanjay

destined to present his views frequently and Wendy pre-destined to object to

this? There is a paradox: telling Sanjay to change his ways - so to speak - is

useless if it is his destiny not to. But if he does change, is it because Wendy

tells him to? What if his email server plays funny and he does not get wendy´s

letters? will he change or not?

 

There is no way to say what is pre-determined, for there is no parallel

"control". We often think before doing something. Is the deed a result of the

thinking? I so, the trend of thought must also be pre-determined. I cannot think

of making tea but make coffee! If the thinking is pre-determined, our asking

about fate or free-will is also programmed. Then what is the purpose of life,

especially if even this question is programmed? The snake swallows its own

tail!

 

Stories like Varahamihira´s or Aeschylus abound. A hollywood film years (with

Spencer Tracy or Frederic March??) ad a similar theme, death by being attacked

by a lion was predicted, a circus lion gets loose but is caught - and a stone

lion falls on the person and kills him.

 

What do they show: that the prophesy was inaccurately spoken or understood. But

the chaos principle and the butterfly in Cologne are illustrations that a

dynamic system can never be absolutely pre-determined, has to have fluctuations.

So it could be that the prophesies were right, but events were re-adjusted to

suit changes!

 

It is easy to talk of pre-determination in global terms, but not if one gets

down to actual daily life. If two cars crash into each other at 10 pm, the

timing has to be perfect. So when each driver gets up that morning, how long he

takes to eat breakfast etc. etc. when he leaves, which route he takes and which

traffic lights he waits at have allto be pre-determined! It would seem to be

more possible that a certain foreplanned situation can go awry, but soon a

substitute situation is created.

 

This debate will continue forever, perhaps even after death!!!

 

Hans smedhol (KV) and I have a very different theory about this: we are not we

at all, but the Great Mother is running videos before our eyes so that we learn,

we behave like kids in a horror movie:

when Dracula comes towards us we duck in fear, feel it is really happening to

us, want to hide our heads! Our freedom lies perhaps only in what and how we

learn.

 

regards

Mani