Free Will

[Guest guest]

Wonderful story, Ilona. We may all have differing viewpoints about karmic lives

and free will, so I will leave it at that--thinking, of course, that by leaving

this subject alone, I will generate good karma for my own future!!

Love,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Mani Wrote:

>>This posting is interesting in many ways. For one thing Kryon says that NO

human

or Spirit can say what will happen tomorrow.... and that we mould our future

ourselves. This is sort of contradicts astrology, but Sanjay maintains that

33%

offreedom is given to us - which at least appeals to me!<<

 

Hi Mani,

 

At the risk of being contraversial (not my intention) I have to say I disagree

with this 33% free will theory. In respect to Janma Kundali the blueprint of

destiny (programe) is set, as a result of past actions...if this were not so one

would not be able to read a horoscope. The karma that is due to us will manifest

in the appropriate dasa and that is not dependant on, or altered by free will.

 

However I do believe that through the regular practice of meditation

(spiritual practices) and the performance of virtuous deeds and charitable

activities (service), the influence of negative karma can be smoothed out...not

so overwhelming.

 

The statement that;

>>The four houses 3,6,10 & 11 are houses that are controlled by the native in

matters concerning Karma related to present life.<<

Is (to my mind) not correct...the 3rd and 11th are concerned with desires of

course, but the nature of our desires are dependant upon the nature of the

houses themselves and not our own free will. The 6th and 10th are concerned with

work (service) and occupation (career), but again, the type of actions we

perform are dependant upon the nature of these houses and not our own free will.

 

Rgds, Wendy

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy, dear list,

though I don`t want to bore you with my quotations, I would share the

following with you. (Astrology for Beginners, KP vol 2 by K. Subramaniam):

King Vikramathithyra had many astrologers in his court. Of them, Mihira was

an intellectual giant and the most renownned. He was admired and held in

great reverence, not only by King V. but also by his colleagues and the

general public. The king had a son. Mihira cast the horoscope of the prince.

Other astrologers also prepared the boy`s horoscope using different systems

of calculation. ...

Whichever systems others followed, all of them gave their opinion that the

prince would have an anxious time at the age of 18. On the nature of danger

and the cause of death of the prince, they were not unanimous. Others were

of the opinion that his prince might lose his life due to the injuries

inflicted by an animal while hunting. But the most learned and wise

Varahamira who enjoyed the blessing of Lord Adhitya, and had Divya Drishti

and Vaksiddhi predicted clearly and boldly that the prince would be killed

by a Varaha, i.e., a boar at a particular date.

He also said that no human remedies could avert the danger and save him from

the jaws of death and this unpleasant incident could not be altered. He

said: " AVASYAM ANJBOKTHVYAM KRITHAM KARMA SUBHASUBHAM", that the prince

could not survive even if all precautions would be taken.

Yeras passed. The Prince was maintaining robust health. His surroundings

were well guarded even some months prior to the eventual day. On the morning

of the fated day, the King held a Durbar. A huge crowed was anxiously

awaiting. The KIng rerequested Varahamihira to verify his calculations and

confirm whether the fateful hour would be the same 5:00 p.m. on that day as

predicted previously. All had their own doubts, because every precaution was

taken by the king. No wild boar or wild animal could have any chance of

gaining access to the Prince`s place which was very well protected by a huge

army of vigilant warriors. The Prince was asked to take his seat in the

seventh floor, and all the staircases were fully guarded. The King was

confident that his son was safe. So he asked Varahamihira how could his son

die from injuries, inflicted by a boar, when none would be allowed into the

palace and especially when no animal could enter at all. He again requested

him to reconsider deeply about his original prediction. The King also

declared that he would award the Emblem of the Royal Title " Varaha" to

Mihira, if the prediction would prove to be true because the King wanted to

honour this science.

Some minutes passed Absolute silence prevailed. The whole crowd was eagerly

observing Mihira to hear his verdict.

Varahamihira said that he was devoted to Sun God and he is blessed with Vak

Siddhi. No mistakes could be committed. Death from the injuries inflicted by

a boar was predicted from the Prince`s horoscope without any shadow of

doubt. That was the penalty announced by the planets in the chart according

to Karma done by the Prince in his previous birth. He repeated that the

results of the past cruel Karma speak out through the planetary position at

the time of birth.

Therfore one shoul be prepared for the worst in spite of all possible

efforts to hoodwink Destiny.

People, who gathered there, were confident that nothing could happen in such

a strictly guarded palace.

At frequent intervals a warrior was asked to given information about the

Prince`s health. Reports that he was hale and healthy were received all

right regularly. At 5 p.m. one worrior reported that the Prince was all

right and the place was peaceful. Somtime later another soldier brought the

same news. But Varahamihira did not agree. He calmly said to the King that

the Prince had died at the stipulated time and it would be advisable if thea

would verify. The King kept quiet. Another soldier, after some time, came

and there was no disturbance at all.

The King began to doubt the prediction, and again said to Mihira wheter

there could be any mistake in his calculation. Mihira reiterated that he was

dead at the moment he predicted. He further mentioned boldly that the Prince

was lying dead in a pool of blood; probably the watchmen and the companions

might not have noticed it. He suggested and persuaded the King to go and see

for himself. The King with some important officers went up the stairs, one

after the other. The King reached the 7th floor. The companions of the

Prince were deeply absorbed in playing games and did not notice the arrival

of the King. On enquiry the King understood that the Prince had been playing

with them all along and that only a little while ago, he had gone out. to

the adjacent open terrace.

All quickly stepped into the open terrace. Oh God! What a horror! To their

great grief, the Prince was lying dead in a pool of blood. They found that

his body was injured by the iron claw of an artificial boar. Thus God`s

will, according to the Karma of the Prince, fructified, as indicated by the

planets, without being averted by the efforts of the King and his sublects.

Theredore all events in our life are actually beyond our control and we have

to submit ourselves quietly and suffer the consequences of our previous

Karma...."

Regards, Ilona

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

--------------------------

Dear wendy,

 

Bhagavan Krishna would not have wasted time and taken the trouble of

teaching the Gita and Karma Yoga to Arjuna if there was no place for free

will. Arjuna had the option to fight or not to fight his grand sire Bheeshma

and this was what troubled him. It was also very painful for him to fight

against his own Gurudev Dronacharya. He was a strong Hamsa Yoga Mahapurusha

being the son of Indra (Jupiter-BPHS). Krishna points out that these people

are already dead as far as time (Kala-Bhagavan Himself) is considered i.e.

there is no doubt that physical death is inevitable for every soul that has

adorned a physical body.

 

Once you agree to this point of whether Arjuna had the option to fight or

not and that he could exercise free will, then we shall discuss as to how to

see this in the chart.

 

President Bush had a number of options for action after the incident. In

fact decision making (I agree with the Simonian model here) involves a

number of sets of information, resouces, abilities and finally time to take

a decision. This is bounded rationality i.e. the available limited or

bounded 'information', 'resources', 'abilities' and 'time' shall generally

help in the exercise of the free will in a logical manner.

 

To emphasie this point, I advise you to read the effects of planets in

"TENTH HOUSE FROM MOON" as given by Kalyan Verma in Saravali. Why does

Kalyan Verma not emphasize about other houses from the Moon? What is the

link between the Krishna Avatar (Moon) and Karma Yoga?..

I await your response.

------------------------------

I read the story of Sri Varahamihira and may like to say that there is a

small correction (not really though). The stuffed boar was a showpiece that

was hanging on the wall in the terrace and when the prince went out to play,

these was a gush of wind and the showpiece fell on him. The prince was not

killed by iron nails but due to the tusks of the boar piercing his tender bo

dy. The dhatu is different..one ruled by saturn(iron) and the other by the

SUN (Bone).

 

The point here is that Death is predetermined and cannot be altered. At best

we may lose our days in this planet by Apamrityu when a previous Rudra comes

i.e. 11 years (or multiples thereof) before destined death by Maheswara. I

believe that till such time as Maheswara comes, the spirit is attached to

the Mana, has an independant identity like knowing who he is in previous

incarnation etc. This is the spirit who is hanging around waiting for the

light of maheswara. so many who would have died in this NY Disaster would

fall into this category. Next question. who can bring Maheswara other than

the Mother. So, say AIM HRIM KLEEM CHAMUNDAYAI VICHCHAI and help the souls

to depart in peace...

----------------------

Best Wishes & Regards,

Sanjay Rath

-

Wendy Vasicek <wenvas

<gjlist>

Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:36 PM

[gjlist] Free Will

 

 

> Mani Wrote:

> >>This posting is interesting in many ways. For one thing Kryon says

that NO human

> or Spirit can say what will happen tomorrow.... and that we mould our

future

> ourselves. This is sort of contradicts astrology, but Sanjay maintains

that 33%

> offreedom is given to us - which at least appeals to me!<<

>

> Hi Mani,

>

> At the risk of being contraversial (not my intention) I have to say I

disagree with this 33% free will theory. In respect to Janma Kundali the

blueprint of destiny (programe) is set, as a result of past actions...if

this were not so one would not be able to read a horoscope. The karma that

is due to us will manifest in the appropriate dasa and that is not dependant

on, or altered by free will.

>

> However I do believe that through the regular practice of meditation

(spiritual practices) and the performance of virtuous deeds and charitable

activities (service), the influence of negative karma can be smoothed

out...not so overwhelming.

>

> The statement that;

> >>The four houses 3,6,10 & 11 are houses that are controlled by the

native in matters concerning Karma related to present life.<<

> Is (to my mind) not correct...the 3rd and 11th are concerned with

desires of course, but the nature of our desires are dependant upon the

nature of the houses themselves and not our own free will. The 6th and 10th

are concerned with work (service) and occupation (career), but again, the

type of actions we perform are dependant upon the nature of these houses and

not our own free will.

>

> Rgds, Wendy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Llona + list

 

must say I have heard a similar story But slight difference insofar Death

was predicted But not by what means. Hence King built a 'Glass' Tower to

ensure No animals - even snakes - or men could enter into the Glass Tower to

kill his 'precious' son posting Guards at the entrance and outside the

Prince's room in the Glass Tower for protection purposes. The ending as

described by you is the same though.

 

Guess it doesn't matter as to which is true except that No one can cheat

'death' at the anointed time!!

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

Ram

 

>

> HellmannC200 [sMTP:HellmannC200]

> Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:31 PM

> gjlist

> Re: [gjlist] Free Will

>

> Dear Wendy, dear list,

> though I don`t want to bore you with my quotations, I would share the

> following with you. (Astrology for Beginners, KP vol 2 by K. Subramaniam):

> King Vikramathithyra had many astrologers in his court. Of them, Mihira

> was

> an intellectual giant and the most renownned. He was admired and held in

> great reverence, not only by King V. but also by his colleagues and the

> general public. The king had a son. Mihira cast the horoscope of the

> prince.

> Other astrologers also prepared the boy`s horoscope using different

> systems

> of calculation. ...

> Whichever systems others followed, all of them gave their opinion that the

> prince would have an anxious time at the age of 18. On the nature of

> danger

> and the cause of death of the prince, they were not unanimous. Others were

> of the opinion that his prince might lose his life due to the injuries

> inflicted by an animal while hunting. But the most learned and wise

> Varahamira who enjoyed the blessing of Lord Adhitya, and had Divya Drishti

> and Vaksiddhi predicted clearly and boldly that the prince would be killed

> by a Varaha, i.e., a boar at a particular date.

> He also said that no human remedies could avert the danger and save him

> from

> the jaws of death and this unpleasant incident could not be altered. He

> said: " AVASYAM ANJBOKTHVYAM KRITHAM KARMA SUBHASUBHAM", that the prince

> could not survive even if all precautions would be taken.

> Yeras passed. The Prince was maintaining robust health. His surroundings

> were well guarded even some months prior to the eventual day. On the

> morning

> of the fated day, the King held a Durbar. A huge crowed was anxiously

> awaiting. The KIng rerequested Varahamihira to verify his calculations and

> confirm whether the fateful hour would be the same 5:00 p.m. on that day

> as

> predicted previously. All had their own doubts, because every precaution

> was

> taken by the king. No wild boar or wild animal could have any chance of

> gaining access to the Prince`s place which was very well protected by a

> huge

> army of vigilant warriors. The Prince was asked to take his seat in the

> seventh floor, and all the staircases were fully guarded. The King was

> confident that his son was safe. So he asked Varahamihira how could his

> son

> die from injuries, inflicted by a boar, when none would be allowed into

> the

> palace and especially when no animal could enter at all. He again

> requested

> him to reconsider deeply about his original prediction. The King also

> declared that he would award the Emblem of the Royal Title " Varaha" to

> Mihira, if the prediction would prove to be true because the King wanted

> to

> honour this science.

> Some minutes passed Absolute silence prevailed. The whole crowd was

> eagerly

> observing Mihira to hear his verdict.

> Varahamihira said that he was devoted to Sun God and he is blessed with

> Vak

> Siddhi. No mistakes could be committed. Death from the injuries inflicted

> by

> a boar was predicted from the Prince`s horoscope without any shadow of

> doubt. That was the penalty announced by the planets in the chart

> according

> to Karma done by the Prince in his previous birth. He repeated that the

> results of the past cruel Karma speak out through the planetary position

> at

> the time of birth.

> Therfore one shoul be prepared for the worst in spite of all possible

> efforts to hoodwink Destiny.

> People, who gathered there, were confident that nothing could happen in

> such

> a strictly guarded palace.

> At frequent intervals a warrior was asked to given information about the

> Prince`s health. Reports that he was hale and healthy were received all

> right regularly. At 5 p.m. one worrior reported that the Prince was all

> right and the place was peaceful. Somtime later another soldier brought

> the

> same news. But Varahamihira did not agree. He calmly said to the King that

> the Prince had died at the stipulated time and it would be advisable if

> thea

> would verify. The King kept quiet. Another soldier, after some time, came

> and there was no disturbance at all.

> The King began to doubt the prediction, and again said to Mihira wheter

> there could be any mistake in his calculation. Mihira reiterated that he

> was

> dead at the moment he predicted. He further mentioned boldly that the

> Prince

> was lying dead in a pool of blood; probably the watchmen and the

> companions

> might not have noticed it. He suggested and persuaded the King to go and

> see

> for himself. The King with some important officers went up the stairs, one

> after the other. The King reached the 7th floor. The companions of the

> Prince were deeply absorbed in playing games and did not notice the

> arrival

> of the King. On enquiry the King understood that the Prince had been

> playing

> with them all along and that only a little while ago, he had gone out. to

> the adjacent open terrace.

> All quickly stepped into the open terrace. Oh God! What a horror! To their

> great grief, the Prince was lying dead in a pool of blood. They found that

> his body was injured by the iron claw of an artificial boar. Thus God`s

> will, according to the Karma of the Prince, fructified, as indicated by

> the

> planets, without being averted by the efforts of the King and his

> sublects.

> Theredore all events in our life are actually beyond our control and we

> have

> to submit ourselves quietly and suffer the consequences of our previous

> Karma...."

> Regards, Ilona

>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

 

 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received

it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose

the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of

this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the

BBC, unless specifically stated.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

I do believe that we're looking at this from two totally different perspectives.

You put forward the discourse between Krshna and Arjuna as an example, however

without Arjuna's actual horoscope a logical discussion cannot take place. I will

say this however, with absolute certainty...divine instruction prior to battle

would have been evident in Arjuna's chart.

 

My view is that (in regards to karma) we have no free will to alter what is

predetermined at birth. Even enlightened sages do not have the power to alter

their karma...Buddha, although in a state of never changing "wakefulness" still

reaped the karma of his birth...Christ had to reap the karma of his birth. My

perspective is that once "awake" however we are a witness to maya rather than

it's prisoner.

 

Sooner or later every living being will "awaken" and that will also be evident

in the horoscope. Receiving instruction (leading to that awakening) from a

Krshna, Buddha, Christ or whomever will also be evident in the horoscope. So in

answer to your statement that Bhagavan Krishna would not have wasted

time.......etc., the teachings were there for Arjuna because that was his

destiny, and the teachings are there for all those destined to receive them.

 

The thing is Sanjay, that we see through different eyes. Our religious creeds

are different, our philosophical outlook is different, our understanding of

jyotish is different...infinate differences we have, and I doubt if we'll ever

see things the same way. It's not only you and I...look at the differences

between fundamental Islamics and Christians, Buddhists and so forth. It is

because of these differences (which most are very passionate about) that I avoid

making references to religious beliefs when I post to a public forum...I try as

best as I can to keep the science of jyotish as scientific as possible.

 

I recently put up a post regarding Christ's struggle with his karma in response

to an overtly religious post by your good self in an effort to show that there

are people of many different religious persuasions on the list, and I hoped you

would realise that. I respect your devotion to your religious beliefs...I just

wish you would show the same respect to mine.

 

If we wish jyotish to ever be accepted as a legitimate science in the West we

have to try to minimise this sectarian religiousity that goes hand in hand.

 

This mail is without prejudice Sanjay and, although you may not agree with my

views, I certainly hope you will acknowledge my right to have them.

 

Best Wishes,

Wendy

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hare krishna

obeisances..

Srila Prabhupada explains everything in Bhagavad Gita As It Is

y.s

Stavavali Devi Dasi

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You are a witness and rider, a perceiver, a feeler, within a body, that

has a completely preset course that it will live. The value of this

experience is in what you'll learn. The cummulative effect of many lives

is total wisdom, liberation from material entanglement, engagement in

the all beautiful way of divine eternal life.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I do believe that in the Gita, when Krishna shows

Arjuna the Virat Rupa, or his form as "the whole Universe", at that time

he tells Arjuna that the outcome of the war is preset, and that Arjuna

and his brothers will be victorious.

 

So that means the future was known, and it was known Arjuna and his

brothers would fight, and be victorious, so I think that Arjuna did not

have free will.

 

I think that humans can perceive separately from the divine will, in

other words, we are not the "one minded Borg" as on Star Trek. Rather,

we have separated individual consciousnesses, and we don't know the

script of what is unfolding, but something is unfolding in an orderly

way, and this means we are all puppets, including Arjuna. I think this

idea is made clear in the Gita.

 

The Gita seems to teach, to me, that there is this simultaneous

predeterminism, along with the perception and experience of singularity,

individuality, and independence. Because of these things we can

experience responsibility. We can experience ownership and attachment,

and the process of detachment, and it can seem completely real.

 

Experiencing life in that way, as an individual with free will, is a

perception, a paradigm of what we see. God has seemingly made it this

way. We as souls can get attached, feel pain, go through the process of

detachment and liberation and so on, all within this changing temporary

material creation.

 

But since we are wayward to some degree, not fully right willing and

acting, so it's impossible for us to have any free will actually,

because it would be abused. So actually, everything is flowing in a set

pattern, but to see that, is not easy for us at all, since we must live

in the now, in the moment, in our lives, since total pain awaits us

physically if we do not attend to the here and now in our bodies, ie,

moving around, making things for trade, eating, sleeping, mating, etc

etc.

 

So our bodies and the environment actually set up the field and all the

actions and reactions, so actually we are one, and it is all God, so to

speak, but then there is the experience of individuality, inside which

is all kinds of things including feelings of elation, bliss, sadness,

remorse, etc etc. So that experience is gradually elevating a soul. So

in the illusion, is the place for personal growth.

 

Outside of the illusion, there is no growth, but to stay outside the

illusion, one must be fully grown. So we grow in the illusion, and then

eventually we're ready to graduate.

 

I do think that ultimately in this kind of way only, will we be able to

harmonize the fact that Jyotish works so well, the Hindu scriptural

teachings, and what we see as reality.

 

It nicely ends up pointing our noses back to our own spiritual business

as the main point of life. It takes our minds off the body as spiritual

thought should, places it as a valuable but temporary home, to be taken

care of, but not over-adorned or believed in beyond it's capacity to

return the favor, and it leaves Jyotish as it is in it's exalted

position as the only way to really show clearly that predeterminism does

indeed exist, and it makes ALL the parts of the Gita acceptable as one

whole message, the parts that seem to refer to free will, and the parts

that clearly state the opposite.

 

But these are my opinions, and I'm not all that learned either. So there

may be fault in the conclusions. I have always tried to serve divinity

to some degree, and held interest in the teachings about it, and have

paid close attention in my mind to thinking of these things, as I've

always been curious to answer these big questions for myself. So far,

this is my conclusion. It's offered in service as a humble brother.

 

Thanks,

--

 

 

Das Goravani

 

 

 

 

 

 

2852 Willamette St # 353

Eugene OR USA 97405

 

or

Fax: 541-343-0344

 

"Goravani Jyotish"

Vedic/Hindu Astrology Software

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

--------------------------

Dear Wendy,

 

There is nothing personal or religious out here. If I say that there is

about 33% free will, perhaps there will be more Hindoo's who disagree with

me, and I never realised for a moment that you were from a different

religion. Honestly, it does not matter for i believe in the teachings of

Krishna that even if we were to worship a leaf or a totem with enough faith

then Bhagavan will show His blessings from that symbol. The example I was

citing was of Krishna as He is well known. I can give some personal

experiences, but then that would be outside the point.

 

This is a question of what is the basic Jyotish Principle. In fact there are

two things that separate a man from an animal and these are (a) the power to

will and (b) the power to understand. You may call this a Christian

teaching, but then I felt this was a good thing to learn from Father David

during my school days. I visit churches and light candles. Infact my wife is

from goa and the religious tolerance and acceptance of each others religion

and participation in mutual festivals is fantastic.

 

I have never spoken ill of any religion. Impossible. At best I may have

given a mantra to someone without checking whether the person is Hindoo or

Christian or of any other faith. Thats because I myself recite mantra like

'Ave Maria' and 'allah ho Akbar' especially when they can be heard over a

loudspeaker, to see their impact on my thinking and their effect. For me

Mantra is a SHASTRA, a science which I have to learn by experimenting and

reading. Can you kindly repost that letter which you felt was offensive?

 

Just one last question, I still do not know what is your religion, but if it

is Buddhism, be it Hinayana or Mahayana; Either way, if your letter on Jesus

did cause hurt to others, then your Karma is not in the true Buddhist

tradition (based on what little I understand about the Great Tathagata and

Ahimsa). There is no offence meant here. Just airing and sharing views so

that we can all benefit from this interaction.

 

Om Shanti Prabhu.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

-

Wendy Vasicek <wenvas

<gjlist>

Friday, September 14, 2001 6:42 PM

Re: [gjlist] Free Will

 

 

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> I do believe that we're looking at this from two totally different

perspectives. You put forward the discourse between Krshna and Arjuna as an

example, however without Arjuna's actual horoscope a logical discussion

cannot take place. I will say this however, with absolute certainty...divine

instruction prior to battle would have been evident in Arjuna's chart.

>

> My view is that (in regards to karma) we have no free will to alter what

is predetermined at birth. Even enlightened sages do not have the power to

alter their karma...Buddha, although in a state of never changing

"wakefulness" still reaped the karma of his birth...Christ had to reap the

karma of his birth. My perspective is that once "awake" however we are a

witness to maya rather than it's prisoner.

>

> Sooner or later every living being will "awaken" and that will also be

evident in the horoscope. Receiving instruction (leading to that awakening)

from a Krshna, Buddha, Christ or whomever will also be evident in the

horoscope. So in answer to your statement that Bhagavan Krishna would not

have wasted time.......etc., the teachings were there for Arjuna because

that was his destiny, and the teachings are there for all those destined to

receive them.

>

> The thing is Sanjay, that we see through different eyes. Our religious

creeds are different, our philosophical outlook is different, our

understanding of jyotish is different...infinate differences we have, and I

doubt if we'll ever see things the same way. It's not only you and I...look

at the differences between fundamental Islamics and Christians, Buddhists

and so forth. It is because of these differences (which most are very

passionate about) that I avoid making references to religious beliefs when I

post to a public forum...I try as best as I can to keep the science of

jyotish as scientific as possible.

>

> I recently put up a post regarding Christ's struggle with his karma in

response to an overtly religious post by your good self in an effort to show

that there are people of many different religious persuasions on the list,

and I hoped you would realise that. I respect your devotion to your

religious beliefs...I just wish you would show the same respect to mine.

>

> If we wish jyotish to ever be accepted as a legitimate science in the West

we have to try to minimise this sectarian religiousity that goes hand in

hand.

>

> This mail is without prejudice Sanjay and, although you may not agree with

my views, I certainly hope you will acknowledge my right to have them.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Wendy

>

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> gjlist-

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> Your use of is subject to

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[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

I would like to say a few words. Hope that it is taken in the right

spirit.

 

If the West has to understand the essence of Jyotish, then the West

will also have to understand that Jyotish originated in India and its

has its references to the Great Epics. The truth, and the real

indeapth understanding of the great texts is vital in understand the

verses and its references in Old Jyotish texts.

 

The results will prove to the west if it has not already, and when

the predictions are accurate , thats when the revelation, faith,

belief will begin. The world, be it so west, east, north and south

cannot forget that Jyotish originated in the Vedic Era and in India,

and it has its references to the Great Epics and that it were written

in Sanskrit. So again, to get an indeapth understanding to Jyotish,

one also has to understand its foundations and the verses in Sanskrit

shall start making more and more sense. We as Jyotishas cannot

forget that.

 

Karma, Fate and free will had its debates and these debates shall

always continue and with every debate if done with an open mind will

open up a gazzillion new doors that one can explore and be more

enlightened.

 

Judiasm, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism etc. all

relegions have commonalities the more one explores the more will one

realise how similar they are. One can definitely corelate.

 

The Maharishis had the power to elongate their lives or end it at

their will so did the great saints.

 

Everyones understanding is different in Jyosish, and thats what is a

blessing in disguies. Most of us here on these lists know that

Jyotish works, we have seen it for ourselves. Most of us here are

from different parts of the world, and we go by the basis that

Jyotish works, we do not have all the answers and we all are working

towards finding the truth and it will eventually bring enlightenment

to all of us.

 

Understandings may be different but the truth is one.

 

With these thoughts,

Thanking you for your patience,

Best Regards,

Ash Sam

 

gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@d...> wrote:

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> I do believe that we're looking at this from two totally different

perspectives. You put forward the discourse between Krshna and Arjuna

as an example, however without Arjuna's actual horoscope a logical

discussion cannot take place. I will say this however, with absolute

certainty...divine instruction prior to battle would have been

evident in Arjuna's chart.

>

> My view is that (in regards to karma) we have no free will to alter

what is predetermined at birth. Even enlightened sages do not have

the power to alter their karma...Buddha, although in a state of never

changing "wakefulness" still reaped the karma of his birth...Christ

had to reap the karma of his birth. My perspective is that

once "awake" however we are a witness to maya rather than it's

prisoner.

>

> Sooner or later every living being will "awaken" and that will also

be evident in the horoscope. Receiving instruction (leading to that

awakening) from a Krshna, Buddha, Christ or whomever will also be

evident in the horoscope. So in answer to your statement that

Bhagavan Krishna would not have wasted time.......etc., the teachings

were there for Arjuna because that was his destiny, and the teachings

are there for all those destined to receive them.

>

> The thing is Sanjay, that we see through different eyes. Our

religious creeds are different, our philosophical outlook is

different, our understanding of jyotish is different...infinate

differences we have, and I doubt if we'll ever see things the same

way. It's not only you and I...look at the differences between

fundamental Islamics and Christians, Buddhists and so forth. It is

because of these differences (which most are very passionate about)

that I avoid making references to religious beliefs when I post to a

public forum...I try as best as I can to keep the science of jyotish

as scientific as possible.

>

> I recently put up a post regarding Christ's struggle with his karma

in response to an overtly religious post by your good self in an

effort to show that there are people of many different religious

persuasions on the list, and I hoped you would realise that. I

respect your devotion to your religious beliefs...I just wish you

would show the same respect to mine.

>

> If we wish jyotish to ever be accepted as a legitimate science in

the West we have to try to minimise this sectarian religiousity that

goes hand in hand.

>

> This mail is without prejudice Sanjay and, although you may not

agree with my views, I certainly hope you will acknowledge my right

to have them.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Wendy

>

>

>