Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 Dear Chris, Wendy and List, Chris, I'm wondering what you're now thinking about upayes. I finished Braha's book a few days ago and I was very impressed with his devotion and experience related to this. As far as practicing Jyotish to improve peoples lives, I like the idea of being able to give remedial measures, having that option and at the very least myself not in confusion over it. But as was clear from all your questions Chris, you too do not wish to offer it empty with only the hope that it is correct and has validity, and wish to be certain. I had not realized before that as James states, there's almost nothing in the ancient texts with reference to guidance of use here. It is my nature to go with my instincts and here I also have had the positive experience personally, as well as with my niece that used this same thinking and advice from James. This does seem to be an area of great interest to him and one that he has put a lot of time and energy into in clearing this in his own heart and practice. I found his approach very logical and he clearly is very confident with this. Wendy, I'm wondering if this is the same as the teaching you received? It appeared to be different on an earlier post, but I'm not sure if that is the case. You seem to have an interest in medical astrology, as do I, and you have practiced and studied the effects of remedies with a clear logic that you follow with regards to using remedies. Was your original training through Maharishi Jyotish? I realize the seriousness of remedies and that I have many years of study ahead of me. But as a starting place for our own use, as well as others, we have to go with our best instincts and intuition and knowledge from where we are. I'm not in a position yet to be reading others charts with so much still to learn. I would like to use the best knowledge I can with my own family members, which in itself is a number of people. My meaning here for instincts and intuition is with what 'system' of thinking we consistently follow and use regarding remedies. As I'd written earlier about this, I stopped my chanting due to a combination of the schedule I let get so wild, and after reflecting on it more, I'd have to say a larger part was the confusion that entered into this from my beginning to gain some knowledge myself and all the varying opinions at the time on the list. I felt it best to give it some time and research as well as prayer. This despite the very clear and good effects I had with James recommendation. His recommendation was based on two benefics, Venus and Moon, occupying their debilitated state. This complicates things a bit further as I do think neechabhanga is in effect in my chart. Just going purely from my experiences I would have to say that although there is neechabhanga, the planets have an unusual or different effect verses planets that have no original debilitation with neechabhanga. Chris, we talked about touching base on this (neechabhanga) again, once I had read James book. In some part, my interest in neechabhanga is due to remedial measures, not just for my own chart, but others as well, along with the accuracy of reading a chart via its use or not. I'd have to say that James book broadened my thoughts on gems, and gave a clearer understanding to yagyas, which I did always appreciate but felt remote from with my little knowledge and experience there. All kind regards, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2001 Report Share Posted August 22, 2001 Hello Wendy and Visti, I have been a silent observer of this Ear and Deafness thing, which has been going on for some time now. The third and the eleventh houses are the houses of Ear and maleficence to these houses are the disturbing elements in hearing. regards, Manoj _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2001 Report Share Posted August 23, 2001 Hello Manoj, One thing I think we can all agree on is that there are many differing views. Naturally we're going to lean towards the one that we were first taught, but who's to say (ultimately) which is correct and which is not...even in studying different charts we often see that both 2nd and 3rd are equally afflicted. The scriptures themselves differ so it's not possible to point to one and say this is correct. Then of course there are the body parts as stipulated by the different drekkanas...I think that, unless one is pursuing medical astrology as a speciality, and therefore able to devote enough time to this one area, it's best to stick to the traditional methods of delineation, i.e., possible difficulties or unhindered advancement in the affairs of this house or that. I've consulted many traditional astrologers, some a joint consultation with jyotish pundit and vaidya (ayurvedic practitioner) and always the (possible) areas of affliction have been general...none has been able to pinpoint any specific physical affliction...always generalisations that could be either this or that...based on the dosha's more than anything. I believe that what I was taught is correct...but who can truly say :-)) Rgds, Wendy >>>Hello Wendy and Visti, I have been a silent observer of this Ear and Deafness thing, which has been going on for some time now. The third and the eleventh houses are the houses of Ear and maleficence to these houses are the disturbing elements in hearing. regards, Manoj<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2001 Report Share Posted August 23, 2001 Hello Wendy, I agree with you. Astrologers should never try and become Doctors. It is their area and we should leave it to them. At best, an Astrologer can only pinpoint a wider area of ailment. He cannot diagnose an illness and in my view should not even attempt it. Now, even for heart ailments, their are two houses which are taken into account. Both 4th and 5th houses are reckoned here along with signs, Cancer and Leo. regards, Manoj >"Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas >gjlist ><gjlist> >Re: [gjlist] Braha's Last Chapter - Upayes >Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:09:03 +0800 > >Hello Manoj, > >One thing I think we can all agree on is that there are many differing >views. Naturally we're going to lean towards the one that we were first >taught, but who's to say (ultimately) which is correct and which is >not...even in studying different charts we often see that both 2nd and 3rd >are equally afflicted. > >The scriptures themselves differ so it's not possible to point to one and >say this is correct. Then of course there are the body parts as stipulated >by the different drekkanas...I think that, unless one is pursuing medical >astrology as a speciality, and therefore able to devote enough time to this >one area, it's best to stick to the traditional methods of delineation, >i.e., possible difficulties or unhindered advancement in the affairs of >this house or that. > >I've consulted many traditional astrologers, some a joint consultation with >jyotish pundit and vaidya (ayurvedic practitioner) and always the >(possible) areas of affliction have been general...none has been able to >pinpoint any specific physical affliction...always generalisations that >could be either this or that...based on the dosha's more than anything. > >I believe that what I was taught is correct...but who can truly say :-)) > >Rgds, Wendy > > > >>>Hello Wendy and Visti, > >I have been a silent observer of this Ear and Deafness thing, which has >been >going on for some time now. The third and the eleventh houses are the >houses >of Ear and maleficence to these houses are the disturbing elements in >hearing. > >regards, > >Manoj<<< > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 Dear Manoj, IMO, ideally astrologers should be better in that role, than well "equipped", "powerful" doc's- if not for other reasons, than for openness to alternatives, humbleness in recognizing limited power of any individual in healing profession, limited knowledge about living beings, respect for the most powerful healer: God, nature.. Caution and doubt are so valuable, and so hard to find among med.practitioners.. Wendy said:"I believe that what I was taught is correct...but who can truly say :-)).. I doubt you'll hear any MD having this healthy amount of suspicion w.r.t. what they've learned.. Anna - Manoj Pathak gjlist Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:03 AM Re: [gjlist] Braha's Last Chapter - Upayes Hello Wendy, I agree with you. Astrologers should never try and become Doctors. It is their area and we should leave it to them. At best, an Astrologer can only pinpoint a wider area of ailment. He cannot diagnose an illness and in my view should not even attempt it. Now, even for heart ailments, their are two houses which are taken into account. Both 4th and 5th houses are reckoned here along with signs, Cancer and Leo. regards, Manoj >"Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas >gjlist ><gjlist> >Re: [gjlist] Braha's Last Chapter - Upayes >Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:09:03 +0800 > >Hello Manoj, > >One thing I think we can all agree on is that there are many differing >views. Naturally we're going to lean towards the one that we were first >taught, but who's to say (ultimately) which is correct and which is >not...even in studying different charts we often see that both 2nd and 3rd >are equally afflicted. > >The scriptures themselves differ so it's not possible to point to one and >say this is correct. Then of course there are the body parts as stipulated >by the different drekkanas...I think that, unless one is pursuing medical >astrology as a speciality, and therefore able to devote enough time to this >one area, it's best to stick to the traditional methods of delineation, >i.e., possible difficulties or unhindered advancement in the affairs of >this house or that. > >I've consulted many traditional astrologers, some a joint consultation with >jyotish pundit and vaidya (ayurvedic practitioner) and always the >(possible) areas of affliction have been general...none has been able to >pinpoint any specific physical affliction...always generalisations that >could be either this or that...based on the dosha's more than anything. > >I believe that what I was taught is correct...but who can truly say :-)) > >Rgds, Wendy > > > >>>Hello Wendy and Visti, > >I have been a silent observer of this Ear and Deafness thing, which has >been >going on for some time now. The third and the eleventh houses are the >houses >of Ear and maleficence to these houses are the disturbing elements in >hearing. > >regards, > >Manoj<<< > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 Patrice: At 12:35 PM 8/22/01 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Chris, Wendy and List, > >Chris, I'm wondering what you're now thinking about upayes. I finished Braha's book a few days ago and I was very impressed with his devotion and experience related to this. Me, too. That's what reawakened my interest. As time rolls on, though, I'm assuming my usual middle ground on it. I include the various possible remedies clients may try, but I tell them flat out that they're not for everyone. I make it up to the individual to decide. I'm definitely less enthusiastic with the gems as well. A lot of money for uncertain diagnoses and uncertain results. I think everyone of us here has to find his own way on stuff like this. I WILL however report back from time to time on experiences with them so help others make their decisions. > >Chris, we talked about touching base on this (neechabhanga) again, once I had read James book. In some part, my interest in neechabhanga is due to remedial measures, not just for my own chart, but others as well, along with the accuracy of reading a chart via its use or not. It's hard to pinpoint the effects of either the neechabhanga planets or the upayes for it. If things go well, then it might be the chanting or it one isn't a chanter, then maybe that debilitation was cancelled after all. Who knows? My sense is that debilitation is only one factor for judging a planet and its cancellation is an even smaller factor as far as determining what it will promise. You can't go overboard in interpreting the effects of these things. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 Dear Patrice, In regards to Braha: The one book I truly studied deeply (thus absorbed) was his first "Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Modern Western Astrologer" It was when it was first published (some years ago) and what I can recall now (without digging it out) is that he recommends strengthening a weak planet regardless of whether that planet is a (functional) malefic or benefic. The only precaution he seems to take is if a "natural" malefic is aspecting another planet...however, I believe that even a natural "benefic" can harm the affairs of the houses it occupies or aspects if it owns inauspicious houses...and if a natural "malefic" is also a temporary malefic then one should pacify that planet (during it's period of influence) rather than strengthen it's malefic influence by wearing it's gem. Even if the planet concerned is both a natural benefic and a functional benefic one needs to consider it's relationship with other planets it conjoins or aspects before strengthening it's influence. BPHS gives the method of determining these relationships in Chapter 3; verses 55 - 58. One should have a good grasp on this before considering any remedial measures. Certainly "Gems" have a powerful (instantaneous) effect for better or worse (or neutral if that's the nature of the planet), and benefit can be quickly gained without any real effort on the native's part. But my personal feelings are that the best remedy of all is the regular practice of meditation (or any transcendental chanting) which uplifts, strengthens and pacifies all the planets from the level of "Being". This requires effort and discipline however to make it a regular lifetime practice...not many are prepared, or able, to do this, therefore, in such cases, gems (and other remedials) can be very helpful. Rgds, Wendy You Wrote: >>>Dear Chris, Wendy and List, Chris, I'm wondering what you're now thinking about upayes. I finished Braha's book a few days ago and I was very impressed with his devotion and experience related to this. As far as practicing Jyotish to improve peoples lives, I like the idea of being able to give remedial measures, having that option and at the very least myself not in confusion over it. But as was clear from all your questions Chris, you too do not wish to offer it empty with only the hope that it is correct and has validity, and wish to be certain. I had not realized before that as James states, there's almost nothing in the ancient texts with reference to guidance of use here. It is my nature to go with my instincts and here I also have had the positive experience personally, as well as with my niece that used this same thinking and advice from James. This does seem to be an area of great interest to him and one that he has put a lot of time and energy into in clearing this in his own heart and practice. I found his approach very logical and he clearly is very confident with this. Wendy, I'm wondering if this is the same as the teaching you received? It appeared to be different on an earlier post, but I'm not sure if that is the case. You seem to have an interest in medical astrology, as do I, and you have practiced and studied the effects of remedies with a clear logic that you follow with regards to using remedies. Was your original training through Maharishi Jyotish? I realize the seriousness of remedies and that I have many years of study ahead of me. But as a starting place for our own use, as well as others, we have to go with our best instincts and intuition and knowledge from where we are. I'm not in a position yet to be reading others charts with so much still to learn. I would like to use the best knowledge I can with my own family members, which in itself is a number of people. My meaning here for instincts and intuition is with what 'system' of thinking we consistently follow and use regarding remedies. As I'd written earlier about this, I stopped my chanting due to a combination of the schedule I let get so wild, and after reflecting on it more, I'd have to say a larger part was the confusion that entered into this from my beginning to gain some knowledge myself and all the varying opinions at the time on the list. I felt it best to give it some time and research as well as prayer. This despite the very clear and good effects I had with James recommendation. His recommendation was based on two benefics, Venus and Moon, occupying their debilitated state. This complicates things a bit further as I do think neechabhanga is in effect in my chart. Just going purely from my experiences I would have to say that although there is neechabhanga, the planets have an unusual or different effect verses planets that have no original debilitation with neechabhanga. Chris, we talked about touching base on this (neechabhanga) again, once I had read James book. In some part, my interest in neechabhanga is due to remedial measures, not just for my own chart, but others as well, along with the accuracy of reading a chart via its use or not. I'd have to say that James book broadened my thoughts on gems, and gave a clearer understanding to yagyas, which I did always appreciate but felt remote from with my little knowledge and experience there. All kind regards, Patrice<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2001 Report Share Posted August 26, 2001 Dear Anna, I have myself, many times given predictions in cases where Doctors were finding it difficult to diagnose and the readings proved correct for Doctors to probe in that area. In Southern India, in Hospitals, they appoint astrologers and a room is allotted to them in the Hospital itself. But still, I am not a student of Medicine. I know the rudimentary body parts. I do not know the intricacies. Sometimes a disease originates in a different part of the body and erupts in a totally different and unrelated area. Please understand, we are not students of Medicine. Let people, who know both, Medicine and Astrology to concentrate in this area. I have few Doctors now studying astrology with me. I have totally left it to them. It is their Job. I tell you and when I say this, I have a basis for saying so, Diagnosis of a disease is not an astrologer's area. Lets leave it to Doctors at present and continue with our researches till we are certain. Jupiter's affliction is now being attributed to deafness. Jupiter's affliction would also cause Liver problems. Jupiter's affliction, coupled with affliction to Venus with result in Kidney and Diabetes related problems, Jupiter's affliction with Sun in Aquarius can cause heart disease. So now what are you going to pronounce. It needs a dedicated research and if the research is carried by Medico-Astrologers, it would be the best cause. With best wishes, Manoj _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.