Fw: TMNEWS Perfection

[Guest guest]

Dear List,

 

Below is a post from another list that I thought clarified the question of Yugas

in a very clear manner. It's a long post but well worth the read.

 

Regards, Wendy

 

============================================

 

Technically, the length of one creation before dissolution is called

a kalpa, or a day of Brahma, which is 14 manvantaras. When Brahma

"goes to sleep", then it is a night of Brahma, and since Brahma is

the creator, when his consciousness goes into sleep state, the crea-

tion ceases to exist - everything becomes unmanifest for 14 manvan-

taras. Then Brahma wakes up, and creates the whole creation again.

[interesting side note: if, even after cosmic dissolution, during a

night of Brahma, time still counts out 14 manvantaras before the

"cosmic alarm clock" wakes Brahma up for another day of creating,

then who or what continues to exist even when manifest creation dis-

appears?]

 

The idea that the entire creation dissolves at the start of each night

of Brahma comes directly from Maharishi. I've personally heard him

say it more than once. It also comes from the vedas, from direct vedic

cognition by vedic seers, but someone else will have to quote the exact

location. I can, however, refer you to one vedic reference, in the

Bhagavad Gita (which Maharishi has often said summarizes the whole

Vedic literature for human life). [Kind of a "Cliffs Notes" for the

Veda.]

 

VEDIC CONCEPTION OF TIME

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, On The Bhagavad-Gita, pgs. 253-254

 

"Time is a conception to measure eternity. Vedic historians base their

conception of time on eternal Being; for them eternity is the basic field

of time.

 

"To arrive at some conception of the eternal, the best measure will be the

life-span of something that has the greatest longevity in the relative

field of creation. This, according to the enlightened vision of Vyasa,

is the Divine Mother, the Universal Mother, who is ultimately responsible

for all that is, was and will be in the entire cosmos.

 

"The eternity of the eternal life of absolute Being is conceived in terms

of innumerable lives of the Divine Mother, a single one of whose lives en-

compasses a thousand life-spans of Lord Shiva. One life of Lord Shiva

covers the time of a thousand life-spans of Lord Vishnu. One life of Lord

Vishnu equals the duration of a thousand life-spans of Brahma, the Creator.

A single life-span of Brahma is conceived in terms of one hundred years of

Brahma; each year of Brahma comprises 12 months of Brahma, and each month

comprises thirty days of Brahma. One day of Brahma is called a Kalpa. One

Kalpa is equal to the time of fourteen Manus. The time of one Manu is

called a Manvantara. One Manvantara equals seventy-one Chaturyugis. One

Chaturyugi comprises the total span of four Yugas, i.e. Sat-yuga, Treta-

yuga, Dvapara-yuga and Kali-yuga. The span of the Yugas is conceived in

terms of the duration of Sat-yuga. Thus the span of Treta-yuga is equal to

three quarters of that of Sat-yuga; the span of Dvapara-yuga is half that

of Sat-yuga; and the span of Kali-yuga one quarter that of Sat-yuga. The

span of Kali-yuga equals 432,000 years of man's life."

 

Calculating from this, we see that the entire creation dissolves after each

day of Brahma, and that's every 1.55 trillion years (10 billion 100-year

human lifetimes, so no immediate need to worry).

 

Maharishi has talked about "immortality" and various kinds of bodies in

a number of different contexts:

 

1. Obviously, Brahma himself, plus Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva, and Mother

Divine, all continue to exist even during the night of Brahma, so there

is the theoretical possibility of existing even longer. The very longest

existence, other than the eternal existence of absolute Being itself, is

the lifespan of the Divine Mother, which is 310 billion trillion years (3

billion trillion 100-year human lifetimes).

 

I can't remember if I've ever heard Maharishi talk about techniques

where you outlive a cosmic dissolution (night of Brahma) by becoming

Brahman or Vishnu or Shiva or Mother Divine. Anybody out there heard

about that?

 

Since the entire relative dissolves when Brahma goes to sleep, these

bodies of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, and Mother Divine must be "absolute"

bodies. [And that brings to light the intellect-boggling possibility

of having bodies, personalities, etc. IN that area beyond the relative!

They are in that area that is subsequent to Being itself, yet still

prior to the realm of Brahma's (the Creator's) relative, manifest crea-

tion. There is still time there (lengths of lives), there is still

form there. What could that area be? "Like a lamp that does not

flicker in a windless place?" - Bhagavat Gita. Consciousness awake

within itself? The field of all possibilities? The incredible world

of activity within silence laid out by Maharishi Jaimini in the Karma

Mimansa Sutras? The realm of the personal God of God consciousness

fame? Samhita of rishi, devatta, and chhandas? Intelligence that's

become intelligent, on its way to becoming creative intelligence? A

field "between" the relative and the Absolute? Or perhaps the Abso-

lute itself - and then what's that "eternal life of absolute Being

that lies even beyond? What do you think? Even more to the point,

what have you experienced?]

 

2. There is the story from the Vedas (Srimat Bhagavatam - Krishna Pu-

rana) of the young boy whose devotion to Lord Vishnu was so great, that

he got Lord Vishnu to appear to him and grant him a boon. He asked to

live forever so that he could always be devoted to Lord Vishnu. Lord

Vishnu made him into (or gave him the job of) the pole star (Dhruva),

around which the whole cosmos revolves [again, until the next night of

Brahma]. So he became an (almost) eternal law of nature.

 

3. There is a technique in Ayur veda, called kaya kalpa, whereby you can

extend life. Each time the contract for one body is about to come to an

end, certain purification processes can be performed which renew that

body, remove the effects of aging, literally rebuild the body and create

new cells - and on you go for another 100-year lifetime. I suppose you

could keep doing this every 100 years or so and just keep on going for-

ever. (Well, at least until the next night of Brahma.) Perhaps it is

(or will soon be) offered through your local Ayurvedic center?

 

4. You can refine the material out of which this human body is made, by

practicing various techniques of purification and tapas, until the earth

element falls away, then the water element falls away, then the fire ele-

ment falls away, then the air element falls away, and you're left with a

body made of akasha, of space only. Maharishi tells the story from the

Rig? Veda of 3 people who did this (Ribhu and his 2 buddies), whose bodies

became so pure that they got to sit amongst the devas (the Vedic laws of

nature or gods) drinking soma. They passed for devas themselves.

 

[in terms of a previous discussion, notice that the devas are not por-

trayed as abstract principles, but as entities with bodies, who can

sniff and smell, who can drink soma, who sit around a celestial table...

And this story is not symbolic, nor watered down for human understanding.

It's the direct cognition of the functioning of the laws of nature by

vedic seers who are so purified that they neither add nor subtract from

the accuracy of the cognition. They are neutral reporters of what they

"see". The vedic sounds/words that they report are not a story ABOUT

what they saw, nor a representation of what they saw; those vedic sounds

are the actual sounds that ARE the forms that they saw.]

 

Since the devas are on the finest level of creation, they must have very

long life. These laws of nature, being the fundamental laws that struc-

ture creation, would be needed for an entire cycle of creation, until

the next night of Brahma. So if you could sit there, you'd live a long,

long time.

 

5. According to Maharishi (age of enlightenment techniques and lectures)

there is also a body, an existence, that is the form associated with

Wholeness itself. It is beyond this whole unbounded universe. It is

beyond unbounded awareness. It is beyond pure consciousness. It is

THE BODY AS A WHOLE, the ultimate. And that is not something that we

have to work at in the relative, and refine our relative body to become.

That is already our most fundamental Reality. It is ours for the asking.

Just put attention in that "direction". Just look within - "beyond, be-

yond, beyond the beyond". It is there. It has always been there. It IS.

 

Existence gives rise to intelligence. The body gives rise to conscious-

ness. Sat gives rise to chit. "When existence becomes conscious, then

intelligence becomes intelligent, on the way to becoming creative intel-

ligence..." - Maharishi, SCI tape #8 (everybody's all-time favorite).

Although on the relative level, Maharishi teaches that consciousness is

prior to, and gives rise to, the body - I have been taught by Maharishi

personally that, on the fundamental level, existence gives rise to con-

sciousness, and it seems to be so on the level of direct experience.

 

So what is that primary existence, that gives rise to consciousness it-

self? Now that's a path worth exploring, maybe even more so than ob-

taining an immortal relative body.

 

Again, it's an intellectually fascinating discussion about just how long

does Maharishi mean when he says "immortal" - is it the life of creation

(1.55 trillion years), or the life of Mother Divine (310 billion trillion

years), or the life of absolute Being itself (unfathomably infinite)?

 

Has Maharishi lied if you only get 3 billion trillion human lifetimes,

or "only" 10 billion lifetimes? Is he exagerating if he calls that span

"eternal" or "immortal"? If you're tempted to do the relative work ne-

cessary to get an "immortal" body, would you feel cheated, would you

still have things to accomplish, would you still want more after 10 bil-

lion lifetimes? Can your intellect even really conceive of 10 billion

lifetimes?

 

And once you've gotten Self-realization, enlightenment, cosmic conscious-

ness - what will happen to these questions? Because then you'll remem-

ber that you ARE absolute Being itself (unfathomably infinite) and you'd

have to see whether the lifespan of a body really seems very important

anymore. See for yourself.

 

Kind of like when that young man asked Maharishi "Why don't you go for

an absolute body, Maharishi?" and Maharishi retorted "Why don't you!?"

Realize the Self, and THEN see what the inclination of your individual-

ity is, and what your take is on this whole question. In other words

"See for yourself".

 

> I agree that spiritually speaking, there are no concerns of life span,

> reincarnation, health issues, but my understanding is that MMY isn't

> referring to anything along these lines. Simply stated, immortality means

> the physical body lasting forever according to what MMY has claimed on the

> Perfect Man Course. Please verify it from your side and let us know. If

> someone on this list has taken the Perfect Man Course, let us know.

 

Let's end by returning to the Veda itself:

 

The Hymn of Creation

Rig Veda, Mandala 10, Sukta 129, Verses 1-7)

 

The rishi is Paramatma (under his name Parameshthin), the devata is

Paramatma (the author of the creation, preservation, and dissolution

of the various entities/bhavas - which are the subjects of the hymn),

the chhandas is unknown.

 

I. Translated by H. H. Wilson (The version reprinted by the TM movement).

 

1. The non-existent was not, the existent was not; then the world was

not, nor the firmament, nor that which is above (the firmament). How

could there by any investing envelope, and where? Of what (could there

be) felicity? How (could there be) the deep unfathomable water?

 

2. Death was not nor at that period immortality, there was no indication

of day or night; that One unbreathed upon breathed of his own strength,

other than That there was nothing else whatever.

 

3. There was darkness covered by darkness in the beginning, all this

(world) was undistinguishable water; that empty united (world) which was

covered by a mere nothing, was produced through the power of austerity.

 

4. In the beginning there was desire, which was the first seed of mind;

sages having meditated in their hearts have discovered by their wisdom

the connection of the existent with the non-existent.

 

5. Their ray was stretched out, whether across, or below, or above;

(some) were shedders of seed, (others) were mighty; food was inferior,

the eater was superior. [brahman is often referred to as "The Eater".]

 

6. Who really knows? Who in this world may declare it? Whence was

this creation, whence was it engendered? The gods (were) subsequent to

the (world's) creation; so who knows whence it arose?

 

7. He from whom this creation arose, he may uphold it, or he may not

(no one else can); he who is its superintendent in the highest heaven,

he assuredly knows, or if he knows not (no one else does).

 

[Remember - this is an English translation of the language of Vedic

cognition, of the language of the laws of nature. Reading it in

English, the direct name/form relationship is gone, the rhythm and

melody is gone. All that remains is a faint shadow of some meaning

that might hint at the Truth, might resonate with some Truth within

us. Don't work the intellect too hard.]

 

Namaste,

 

Michael