Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 I fully support your comments. As per Hindu mythology, there is re-birth after death till the Nirvana is achieved. And after the sole gets Nirvana, it is merged with the Supreme. So, there is no concept of Hell or Heaven. ~ Akshaya vinod [vinod] Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:34 PM gjlist Cc: vinod Re: [gjlist] The effectiveness of Mantras chanted on behalf of another?? Hi I am very new to the list and am fascinated by the discussions going on. Hopefully someday I'll know enough to be able to contribute something meaningful. A recent discussion I was having with a friend about Hindu philosophy, etc. prompted me to reply to this email. This is probably not the right forum for this kind of discussion though. | said to be so powerful, than even forefathers having descended to hell, | could be relieved of such a condition of life and reinstated in human form. While I agree with the views about praying for someone else, I was curious about something else mentioned above. Based on the limited knowledge that I have and from talking to some other people, I was of the opinion that the vedas do not talk about the concept of a hell at all as far a life after death is concerned. I have heard about demons and "naragam" (meaning hell), but never in the context of going to hell after dying, always as a metaphor in stories. I haven't had the good fortune of reading the vedas themselves, so I could be wrong about this. I am hoping some of the more learned members of this list could enlighten me on this subject. Thanks Vinod gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Namaste Vinod and Akshaya, Thank you for your questions, the answers to, and discussion of which, can lead to our collective spiritual advancement. At 05:07 PM 7/5/01 -0400, you wrote: >I fully support your comments. As per Hindu mythology, there is >re-birth after death till the Nirvana is achieved. And after the sole >gets Nirvana, it is merged with the Supreme. So, there is no concept of >Hell or Heaven. > >~ Akshaya If you are considering the statements of the Rg Veda as final, then yes, perhaps you will not hear of a hell after death in that scripture. However, there are scriptures that are more appropriate for souls in the Kali-yuga, most notably the Puranas, and which have been translated and presented by Veda-Vyasa, the scribe of the Vedas. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, for example, as well as Padma Purana, there are detailed descriptions of the hellish worlds, and which are attained by those who cultivate, by their thoughts and actions, the lower mode of nature, or Tama-guna. This is not to say that the Rg Veda is wrong - it is to say, however, that the more Kali-yuga progresses, then the less applicable as well as comprehensible its esoteric teaching will be for humans in this age. Now, so far as delineations on the subject of hell, you will find very definitive statements in the Bhagavad-gita also in this connection. For example, in chapter 14 of the Bg, Sri Krsna explains the three gunas, or qualities of nature, as well as the destinations after death attained by persons immersed in each: "Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthaa madhye tisthanti raajasah jaghanya-guna vritti sthaa adho gacchanti tamasah" Bg: 14.18 "Those situated in the mode (guna) of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion (Rajas) live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance (darkness, or Tamas) go down to the hellish worlds". The significant terminology here is the word "adhah", which means downward. Now, if the earthly sphere is of the middle planetary position, then where would "downward" be, if there were no hell, or lower worlds? At least "hell" could be interpreted as a status lower than the human form of life, which is attained by those who occupy the earthly planetary sphere. Lower forms can thus be attained after human life, such as that of plants, insects, animals, etc. Svarga-loka, or the heavenly sphere, is attained by those who cultivate the Sattva-guna, according to this and many other statements in the Gita. The key word here is "Urdhvam" which means going higher. However you interpret it, those who go downward as a result of cultivating the Tamo-guna, certainly do not attain moksha after death. This is the opinion of Sri Krsna, who establishes Himself as the compiler of Vedanta and the knower of all knowledge contained in the Vedas (Vedanta-krt, veda-vit). Anyway, read the 14th chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, and all these concepts of heaven, earth, and hell, as respective destinations of human beings, will be clear. Best wishes, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Dear Akshaya, In BPHS chapter 23, verse (sloka) 9 it states: If Rahu is in the 12th along with Mars, Saturn and the Sun, the native will go to Hell...etc...... So no doubt, in the time of Parashara at least, the concept of Hell was there. Regards, Wendy > I fully support your comments. As per Hindu mythology, there is > re-birth after death till the Nirvana is achieved. And after the sole > gets Nirvana, it is merged with the Supreme. So, there is no concept of > Hell or Heaven. > > ~ Akshaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Dear Akshaya, Wendy, All, The concepts of Hell and Heaven are there in Indian Philosophy. There are two types of views, relavitistic and absolutistic. The cycle of birth, death and rebirth is known as Samsar. One who gets Liberation is freed from this cycle. To one who is not freed, this cycle is very much real and all the relative terms exist for him. For the Jnani ( the Enlightened ), there is no Hell, no Heaven, no real Universe ( Jagat ), no real Jivas ( egos ), no real God ( Para ). To him the Absolute Reality, the Absolute Self alone exists and Relative Being does not exist. Great Ones like Ramana Maharshi belong to this category. Reincarnation, hell, heaven, sin, divine merit, God, Universe, Ego - all these are relative terms . The Absolute is absolutely Absolute. Regards, G Kumar Vedic Astrologer www.zodiaccomputers.com - Wendy Vasicek <wenvas <gjlist> Friday, July 06, 2001 8:17 AM Re: [gjlist] Hell or Heaven > Dear Akshaya, > > In BPHS chapter 23, verse (sloka) 9 it states: If Rahu is in the 12th along > with Mars, Saturn and the Sun, the native will go to Hell...etc...... > > So no doubt, in the time of Parashara at least, the concept of Hell was > there. > > Regards, Wendy > > > I fully support your comments. As per Hindu mythology, there is > > re-birth after death till the Nirvana is achieved. And after the sole > > gets Nirvana, it is merged with the Supreme. So, there is no concept of > > Hell or Heaven. > > > > ~ Akshaya > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 OM GAM! Dear Wendy, You are correct. In traditional Hindu religion, there is Heaven and Hell. The only difference with the Christian Heaven or Hell, the Hindu Heaven or Hell is not a permanent state. So, we do not burn in Hell forever. After our sanchita karma is spent, we are reborn to continue the cycle. Regards, Gautam Sarkar Get personalized email addresses from Mail http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 In many Upanishads, the Mahabharat, the Gita, Ramayan, Bhagavatam, and many other books, those read by Vaisnavas, therefore my familiarity, are laden with the usage of the concepts of Heaven and Hell. However, Heaven is the higher material planets of the demigods, though lasting much longer than ours, and containing within them much greater lives of enjoyment than we have here, still, they are mortal, within this creation, but higher in this creation than the Earth level. There are then described "lower planetary systems" which have specific names and natures, and which are referred to as Hellish Planets, Patala Loka, etc. It is clearly taught that performing adharma in this life will cause a short or long visit to Hell, or places of suffering, but that you will come back again, and can go up or down. This kind of punishment and reward cycle is clearly taught in standard Vedic Spiritual Classics as mentioned. However, with logic, one can undo some of these concepts and raise doubts. One can rationalize them into metaphors quite easily. The Shankara school tends to translate Sanskrit into Metaphor, as dismantling the ancient faiths in the personal deities as actually existing entities was part of that philosophical slant. The Shaivaites and other followers of Shankara and like minded philosophers, often dubbed as the "impersonalists" by the Vaisnavas, who tend to go more with the faith in the personal eternal Gods as actually existing in the described forms, have a tendency to be identified with promoting moreso the concept of "we're all God", and "Brahman, or Nirvana, the oneness, is the highest destination for the soul", and that the Gods are for our Sadhana in the now, but ultimately, don't really exist except as energies moreso. So there is a difference of perception around the Gods, which rule these higher and lower planets, so there is also a greater tendency to dismantle belief in the planets themselves. All agree that Hellish experience can be experienced, even here on this planet, as in wars, disease, and especially in some animal and bug forms, where trauma is more easily had, and in human life too of course. Some of us are experiencing very difficult, hellish experiences in our current lives. So one has great latitude to see it a number of ways and definitely be called "Hindu". That's for sure. There is certainly not just one Hinduism. Just Jupiter spouting off. Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Dear Das and All For a while, forget about Upanishads, the Mahabharat, the Gita, Ramayan, Bhagavatam, "lower planetary systems", standard Vedic Spiritual Classics, Philosophy etc. etc. Look at your surrounding. Heaven and Hell both exist very close to you. Sometime in the next door and come close further the heaven and hell is within you. When the 6 enemies rules over you, you are in hell and when you rule upon them you are in heaven. Now, come back to Shastra. When it is declared that our body is a micro Universe, then how the Heaven and Hell both could be very far? Shilpi Ghosh ---------- ------------------------------- - Das Goravani <> <gjlist> Friday, July 06, 2001 11:32 AM Re: [gjlist] Hell or Heaven > > In many Upanishads, the Mahabharat, the Gita, Ramayan, Bhagavatam, and > many other books, those read by Vaisnavas, therefore my familiarity, are > laden with the usage of the concepts of Heaven and Hell. > > However, Heaven is the higher material planets of the demigods, though > lasting much longer than ours, and containing within them much greater > lives of enjoyment than we have here, still, they are mortal, within > this creation, but higher in this creation than the Earth level. > > There are then described "lower planetary systems" which have specific > names and natures, and which are referred to as Hellish Planets, Patala > Loka, etc. > > It is clearly taught that performing adharma in this life will cause a > short or long visit to Hell, or places of suffering, but that you will > come back again, and can go up or down. This kind of punishment and > reward cycle is clearly taught in standard Vedic Spiritual Classics as mentioned. > > However, with logic, one can undo some of these concepts and raise > doubts. One can rationalize them into metaphors quite easily. The > Shankara school tends to translate Sanskrit into Metaphor, as > dismantling the ancient faiths in the personal deities as actually > existing entities was part of that philosophical slant. The Shaivaites > and other followers of Shankara and like minded philosophers, often > dubbed as the "impersonalists" by the Vaisnavas, who tend to go more > with the faith in the personal eternal Gods as actually existing in the > described forms, have a tendency to be identified with promoting moreso > the concept of "we're all God", and "Brahman, or Nirvana, the oneness, > is the highest destination for the soul", and that the Gods are for our > Sadhana in the now, but ultimately, don't really exist except as > energies moreso. > > So there is a difference of perception around the Gods, which rule these > higher and lower planets, so there is also a greater tendency to > dismantle belief in the planets themselves. > > All agree that Hellish experience can be experienced, even here on this > planet, as in wars, disease, and especially in some animal and bug > forms, where trauma is more easily had, and in human life too of course. > Some of us are experiencing very difficult, hellish experiences in our > current lives. > > So one has great latitude to see it a number of ways and definitely be > called "Hindu". That's for sure. There is certainly not just one > Hinduism. > > Just Jupiter spouting off. > > Das > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Dear Wendy, The way I interpret this is 'Hell/Heaven like situation' not going to Hell. There is no place named Heaven or Hell. The Hell/Heaven like situations are experienced by the natives on this same earth. This is the law of Karma. ~ Akshaya wenvas [wenvas] Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:47 PM gjlist Cc: wenvas Re: [gjlist] Hell or Heaven Dear Akshaya, In BPHS chapter 23, verse (sloka) 9 it states: If Rahu is in the 12th along with Mars, Saturn and the Sun, the native will go to Hell...etc...... So no doubt, in the time of Parashara at least, the concept of Hell was there. Regards, Wendy > I fully support your comments. As per Hindu mythology, there is > re-birth after death till the Nirvana is achieved. And after the sole > gets Nirvana, it is merged with the Supreme. So, there is no concept of > Hell or Heaven. > > ~ Akshaya gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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