Guest guest Posted June 27, 2001 Report Share Posted June 27, 2001 Dear Members, The philosophical musings of late highlight once again (for me) the depth and breadth of divine revelation within the horoscope. Like many on the list my soul has risen to dizzy heights over the years reading Kahil Gibran, the Gita, Bible, Goldstein, etc, etc...but the greatest revelation of all has come from reading horoscopes. Most philosophical authors (attempt) to teach us to think in this way rather than that way, to react in this way rather than that...and often people who have devoted many, many years to living the principles of these great teachings, find that in spite of their good intentions, in spite of their philosophical understanding and their devotion to spiritual practices, bad things happen inexplicably, their heartfelt desires are not fulfilled and suffering engulfs them. For me, the greatest suffering of all was "Guilt". My mind reasoned that such bad things cannot happen to one who lives these divine principles, one who has made devotional practices (meditation, etc) the basis of their existence for so many years...how can such things happen? Guilt raises it's ugly head the moment you begin asking Why?...why doesn't the object of my affection (in Das's case) have the same desires as I do, what am I doing wrong...what is wrong with me? These feelings of guilt then become our greatest source of suffering. After spending many years on my knees (metaphorically), my Saturn dasa brought me to my knees literally by stripping me of all I possessed and held dear...wealth, status, home, family (children...what greater pain for a mother), friends and health were all taken from me. Saturn dasa brought me the most unendurable suffering. Homelessness, poverty, ill-health and hostility from all I met was the flavour of my life. I spent cold wintery nights huddled in doorways without even a blanket to keep me warm. Still I meditated, still I believed that "God" would save me...the physical suffering was easier to endure than the mental suffering brought about by asking myself Why??...why hadn't I said this instead of that, why hadn't I made this decision instead of that...if I just hadn't lost my temper, if I'd just not picked up that phone, if only I had been more accommodating to my husband's desires...if only, if only, if only! The guilt that I had caused the wrong-doing of others was unendurable. Then the day came through the grace of God (he did save me after all) when a wise pundit read my horoscope for the first time and told me of the events of my life that (until then) I believed could have been different had I been a "better" person. The guilt vanished immediately and I was in a state of bliss for weeks. That wise pundit taught me more in that consultation than I could learn in a dozen books...he will always be dear to my heart. No matter what happens in life from now on, or what desires go unfulfilled, I know I've been blessed beyond any material riches. God/Destiny/Self/Creative intelligence (whatever) has given me the greatest riches of all; The desire to meditate and the knowledge of Natural law. It's inconsequential if the body suffers pain (provided it's not too bad :-), then like Das I'm likely to go running for help), or if material comfort lacks all I would desire. There is no longer any guilt...I accept my karma (good and bad) for what it is. People talk of surrender...to me surrender is natural when you realize that everything is as it should be. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2001 Report Share Posted June 28, 2001 Wendy Vasicek wrote: > > People talk of surrender...to me surrender is natural when you realize that > everything is as it should be. Dear Wendy thank you for this wonderful message, but where is free will in all that, if everything is as it should be? Sundari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2001 Report Share Posted June 28, 2001 Your story touched me Wendy....comments below... In a message dated 6/27/01 11:45:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wenvas writes: << Most philosophical authors (attempt) to teach us to think in this way rather than that way, to react in this way rather than that...and often people who have devoted many, many years to living the principles of these great teachings, find that in spite of their good intentions, in spite of their philosophical understanding and their devotion to spiritual practices, bad things happen inexplicably, their heartfelt desires are not fulfilled and suffering engulfs them. [me] I think it sorta depends on one's impressions of these authors/teachers. If a person assumes that a writer is 'telling' them what to do, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Reading inspirational material and devoting yourself to spiritual practices do not 'ward off' inexplicable experiences...these things are there for a reason. I kinda look at inspirational material as being a lighthouse in the midst of darkness...an inner thing. By the way there are many inspirational authors who, while writing these fabulous things like Gibran did, have suffered a LOT...just like the rest of us. Have you ever read about Gibran's life? [you] For me, the greatest suffering of all was "Guilt". My mind reasoned that such bad things cannot happen to one who lives these divine principles, [me] So you then 'assumed' this...your reaction caused you to feel this way and not the author...know what I mean? Many times teachers teach what they know...what they have lived through (suffering and triumph of spirit). [you] one who has made devotional practices (meditation, etc) the basis of their existence for so many years...how can such things happen? [me] They just DO whether we explain it through karma or otherwise. How we perceive it is where we have the control. There is a saying that "E + R = O" an event plus your response equals the outcome. [you] Guilt raises it's ugly head the moment you begin asking Why?...why doesn't the object of my affection (in Das's case) have the same desires as I do, what am I doing wrong...what is wrong with me? These feelings of guilt then become our greatest source of suffering. [me] No one is doing anything 'wrong'. {{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}} [you] After spending many years on my knees (metaphorically), my Saturn dasa brought me to my knees literally by stripping me of all I possessed and held dear...wealth, status, home, family (children...what greater pain for a mother), friends and health were all taken from me. [me] Great...now I have something to look forward to. <grin> My Saturn dasa is coming up in 2005. Maybe you can coach me on how to get through it (yes I know it's more complicated than this...hehe). Actually my Mars period was VERY bad and I suffered through what you stated above (fallen Mars in its worse degree thank you very much). I hear ya! Even had an NDE during a Mars subperiod. What fun. I had an argument with God while I was on the other side....he won. <laugh> [you] Saturn dasa brought me the most unendurable suffering. Homelessness, poverty, ill-health and hostility from all I met was the flavour of my life. I spent cold wintery nights huddled in doorways without even a blanket to keep me warm. [me] Yup...my mother and I went through this so I can relate. Bless your heart! HEY...you are here! You made it! The success is in the journey...not in the destination! Have you heard that saying? {{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}} [you] Still I meditated, still I believed that "God" would save me...the physical suffering was easier to endure than the mental suffering brought about by asking myself Why?? [me] I don't know...maybe cause we are human too at times and look for a reason as to why? So maybe we unfairly blame God? God has nothing to do with this. I don't think God points his finger at each one of us and appoints different things to happen moment by moment. He's too busy for that. You gotta be kidding. I used to blame god too until I took responsibility for my future in what little I could do...and step by step forged a path for my goals in life. I do believe in free will as well as karma. It's called accountability and responsibility. Now I'm a counselor for the homeless, drug addicts, mental health patients, domestic violence victims and help them find their way to some kind of self sufficiency. I used my knowledge to then turn around and pass the torch to my brothers/sisters. Everything is for a reason and for everything there is a season under heaven. A time to live...a time to die...a time to laugh and a time to cry:o) [you] ....why hadn't I said this instead of that, why hadn't I made this decision instead of that...if I just hadn't lost my temper, if I'd just not picked up that phone, if only I had been more accommodating to my husband's desires...if only, if only, if only! The guilt that I had caused the wrong-doing of others was unendurable. Then the day came through the grace of God (he did save me after all) when a wise pundit read my horoscope for the first time and told me of the events of my life that (until then) I believed could have been different had I been a "better" person. The guilt vanished immediately and I was in a state of bliss for weeks. That wise pundit taught me more in that consultation than I could learn in a dozen books...he will always be dear to my heart. [me] {{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}} My heart goes out to you. [you] No matter what happens in life from now on, or what desires go unfulfilled, I know I've been blessed beyond any material riches. God/Destiny/Self/Creative intelligence (whatever) has given me the greatest riches of all; The desire to meditate and the knowledge of Natural law. It's inconsequential if the body suffers pain (provided it's not too bad :-), then like Das I'm likely to go running for help), or if material comfort lacks all I would desire. There is no longer any guilt...I accept my karma (good and bad) for what it is. People talk of surrender...to me surrender is natural when you realize that everything is as it should be. [me] There is a saying here "You are exactly where you are meant to be no matter how much it may appear otherwise". Maybe the only control we have is in our reactions to events (attachment/non attachment)...I don't know. I am very much a 'free will' person but I do know that there are many things predestined. Some of us who feel that we have free will fueling our lives MIGHT have it in our chart that we feel this way in order to help others do whatever they are supposed to do that is predestined...know what I mean? I help to inspire others to not give up, to seek other avenues of fulfillment than drugs or violence, to try to turn their lives around. Some are successful...others are not and that could be predestiny as they teach me as much as I teach them. I just know that I see the face of God in everyone I service:o) Bless you in your life. Your story touched me. Namaste....Renee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2001 Report Share Posted June 28, 2001 Hello Wendy, This was a fine article on the effects of waking up to predeterminism when the life has had much suffering. The only thing I'd add is: The experience is way different if your life has been mostly enjoyable or you have high hopes for a non-promised future- then it can be frightening instead of enlivening. and As we experience illusion only in the mind, so we can also experience pure bhakti in the mind as well- it doesn't matter on the outside at all, as it is just a mental decision. And from what I know, that's the free will we have- inbetween lust and illusion, and pure bhakti on the other end, everything inbetween, also just in the mind, is called free will. But a nice piece, I liked it, much truth, bravo, das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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