Planetary Mantras-Mani

[Guest guest]

Mani:

 

Actually the chanting of mantras may not have anything to do with the

"gods" of

>the planets, but may be only vibrations that enhance or counteract the

>vibrations of the planets : in a kind of physics that we don´t understand as

>yet. The other remedial measures like giving in charity may be tokens for

the

>Supreme Being, only referring to the "effects" of the planet in question.

The

>mythological stories regarding the planets are essentially coded info

about the

>planets; I personally do not think of the planets as gods, but as lenses

which

>concentrate certain cosmic forces. they may also harbour spirits, but I

think

>they are more concerned with the well-being of the planets, not our fates.

 

This sounds quite plausible to me, an eternal materialist. I don't think

of planets as gods either, although if one has to chant to appease them,

then they certainly bear a strong resemblance!

 

Giving charity or performing service doesn't fit as neatly into this cosmic

lens scheme you suggest. How could those actions mitigate the evil effects

of planets? It's all speculation obviously since we don't know how any of

this works.

 

Chris

[Guest guest]

Dear Chris,

I believe charity and performing service both work on the principle of

sacrifice, which has been known and applied in all religions and cultures

since time imemorial.

If a person's destiny is to experience an amount of let's say 100 points of

difficulties, and if you take an amount of 80 points voluntarily (by doing

service), then only an amount of 20 points is going to happen to you outside

of your free will (volunteering for 100 points seems wiser to me). If there

is a hungry beast beside you, and if you voluntarily give the beast enough

food, it'll fall asleep and won't bite you, you'll be out of danger. If

you're destined to no longer have some of your possessions, and if you give

something in charity on your own free will, you've fullfilled your destiny

by yuour self, so there'll be no need for your destiny to arrange a loss for

you. Probably clumsy comparisons, but I hope they explain the logic which I

believe is behind this kind of recommendations. They not only work, but also

make this world a nicer place.

Regards and love,

Liliana

 

 

>Christopher Kevill <ckevill

>gjlist

>gjlist

>Re: [gjlist] Planetary Mantras-Mani

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>From sentto-490438-6008-993217914-astrolila Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:01:35 -0700

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>Mani:

>

>Actually the chanting of mantras may not have anything to do with the

>"gods" of

> >the planets, but may be only vibrations that enhance or counteract the

> >vibrations of the planets : in a kind of physics that we don´t understand

>as

> >yet. The other remedial measures like giving in charity may be tokens for

>the

> >Supreme Being, only referring to the "effects" of the planet in question.

>The

> >mythological stories regarding the planets are essentially coded info

>about the

> >planets; I personally do not think of the planets as gods, but as lenses

>which

> >concentrate certain cosmic forces. they may also harbour spirits, but I

>think

> >they are more concerned with the well-being of the planets, not our

>fates.

>

>This sounds quite plausible to me, an eternal materialist. I don't think

>of planets as gods either, although if one has to chant to appease them,

>then they certainly bear a strong resemblance!

>

>Giving charity or performing service doesn't fit as neatly into this cosmic

>lens scheme you suggest. How could those actions mitigate the evil effects

>of planets? It's all speculation obviously since we don't know how any of

>this works.

>

>Chris

>

>

>

>

>

>gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Christopher Kevill wrote:

> Mani:

> This sounds quite plausible to me, an eternal materialist. I don't think

> of planets as gods either, although if one has to chant to appease them,

> then they certainly bear a strong resemblance!

 

Dear chris,

 

This notion arises from a misunderstanding of the words. I have not examined the

origfinal texts, but am sure the word "appease" is wrong: it should be

"ameliorate". The opposite is "strengthen" or "support" the influence of a

planet.

 

We cannot be naive forever. Chandra having 27 wives is a very clear astronomical

fact, the moon goes through 27 asterisms. The planets do not behave as if they

were gods: suffer collisions and destruction. It is their inherent construction

that makes them lenses. The story of Druva - which I have only partially

deciphered - is a clear negation of the "divinity" of planets.

 

>

> Giving charity or performing service doesn't fit as neatly into this cosmic

> lens scheme you suggest. How could those actions mitigate the evil effects

> of planets? It's all speculation obviously since we don't know how any of

> this works.

 

No, it does not. But it fits into the cosmic scheme as such! It does not relate

to a dasa or transit of a malefic planet, but to a period of despair: so charity

probably helps by setting off "good" vibrations. By serving others one really

serves god and that - IMHO - does get his protection.

 

It IS all speculation. Since the debate about fate and free-will is continuous

and cannot be settled, remedial measures are also debatable. To fail or succeed

after trying is more satisfying than to fail "for" not having tried!

 

regards,

 

Mani

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello my friends,

"All done as good is good." That phrase appeared in my thinking one day.

I pondered what it meant. It means good intentions are inherently

good...well, it would have to be true by definition.

 

The chanting of mantras to gain a better life circumstance--is something

done as a good exercise for the seeker of a better life.

Actual practice of mantra has beneficial effects such as setting up

self-discipline to begin and maintain the chant, using qualities of endurance

to complete the chant, having calmness of disposition during the chanting, as

well as coordinating body and mind to the mantra's harmonic (rather than

discordant) sound vibration. Mantra can cause mind and heart to be lifted

through personal identification with sublime creative energies that cause

beneficial change to the direction of a life.

 

Wearing appropriate gemstones is done for an assurance to the wearer that

there is protection from harm and that it is possible to have hope for

beneficial events to occur--it is done as a good thing. Attunement to hope

for one who had been without hope, one's rise to new-found courage... are

valuable aids to bringing positive results into one's life. Perhaps there is

more to the gemstone than these few attributes. The individual may move with

confidence towards fulfilling his goals as a result of gazing upon the daily

reminder he wears. The goodness he sincerely seeks in his life may magnify

due to his personal affinity with that reminder of hope and courage in his

life.

 

Donation to others is a good thing when the receiver is in need of help and

the giver knows his virtuous act has at least helped someone else. The

virtue of kindness towards others is the highest virtue. Charity performed

by a giver in order to gain a boon for himself, is good for the receiver but

probably has minimal value to the giver because the principle of goodness in

helping others is minimized when the concept of receiving a reward for self

is the primary motivation. Yet the act of doing good is a virtue even when

the beneficial effect upon the giver might be minimized by his expectations

of gain.

Charitable acts done without expecting a boon in return will bring greater

blessings to the giver's life than those done with expectations of

compensation, for good things done "in secret" will be recompensed by divine

law.

 

Best to all,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

 

You wrote:

 

> "All done as good is good." That phrase appeared in my thinking one

>day.

 

>Charity performed

>by a giver in order to gain a boon for himself, is good for the receiver

>but

>probably has minimal value to the giver because the principle of goodness

>in

>helping others is minimized when the concept of receiving a reward for self

>is the primary motivation. Yet the act of doing good is a virtue even when

>the beneficial effect upon the giver might be minimized by his expectations

>of gain.

> Charitable acts done without expecting a boon in return will bring

>greater

>blessings to the giver's life than those done with expectations of

>compensation, for good things done "in secret" will be recompensed by

>divine

>law.

 

and I agree with you completely. I hope my e-mail to Chris hasn't been

misunderstood. What I wrote was my attempt of EXPLANATION of why charity and

service function as remedies, and NOT my recommendation for the MOTIVATION!

Also as Neale Donald Walsch beautifully explained in "Converstaions with

God" (a great book!), WE CREATE OUR LIFE BY WHAT WE THINK. When you think

"I'm lucky to be in a position to give" or "I'm lucky to be in a position to

help" these thoughts alone are enough to create the reality in which you'll

remain lucky and in a position to help and give.

 

I do not think that EITHER there is karma OR N.D.Walsch is right, but that

BOTH is right, and we all subconsciously carry out our karma by our selves,

i.e. we think thoughts which create the kind of reality which corresponds

with our karma.

 

Regards and love,

Liliana

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/24/2001 3:03:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

astrolila writes:

 

<< WE CREATE OUR LIFE BY WHAT WE THINK. When you think

"I'm lucky to be in a position to give" or "I'm lucky to be in a position to

help" these thoughts alone are enough to create the reality in which you'll

remain lucky and in a position to help and give. >>

 

Dear Liliana,

I wonder if each person has a bhava (house in a horoscope) in which

he/she has thoughts similar to your comments above. I know that for me,

often I go to my workplace with thoughts of how lucky I am to have a job, how

lucky I to be able to work and hopefully benefit not only myself and my

family, but in our teamwork situation, help benefit co-workers and their

families--and in our product (engineering) we benefit school children and

many others for years to come. This is a source of happiness to me, that I

am lucky enought to be in a career I truly enjoy. But in other bhavas, I do

not have the same pleasure!

 

(You also wrote) << I do not think that EITHER there is karma OR N.D.Walsch

is right, but that BOTH is right, and we all subconsciously carry out our

karma by our selves,

i.e. we think thoughts which create the kind of reality which corresponds

with our karma.>>

 

So I wonder: if I were to consciously apply the same kind of thinking to

the other houses, would this cause a happy revolution for those areas of my

life? And wondering again, would it be karmically predictable that this

experiment be carried out, or is it truly possible for a person to affect his

destiny by deliberate cause and effect? (I don't expect anyone has the

answers; just musing about this possibility).

Thanks, Liliana...I appreciate your email very much.

Best wishes,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Liliana et al,

 

Whilst I agree in principle with what you say, it's much more complex than

just thinking positive thoughts. It's said that every thought (eventually)

manifests as reality. If we think negative thoughts about another, or

someone else thinks negative thoughts about us, those thoughts will

eventually come to fruition. It's these thoughts, born in the minds of

others, that brings retribution (bad karma) to the unsuspecting

native...deeds long forgotten that incited negative thoughts from those we

wronged.

 

The thoughts that manifest so readily as our experience are those that rise

from the unconscious mind. Thinking positive thoughts and being guided by

right intention is setting the scene for future good karma but, for the most

part, what manifests in the present, is that which is embedded in our

deepest level of consciousness...beyond awareness!

 

The wise tell us that the thoughts created on the subtle (Absolute) level of

awareness manifest almost instantaneously, whereas thoughts created on the

gross (thinking) level of awareness are less powerful and take much longer

(perhaps another lifetime) to come to fruition. This is the principle behind

Patanjali's yoga sutras...thoughts introduced whilst in deep meditation can

often manifest instantaneously.

 

Setting the scene for the future by practicing Ahimsa is within our control,

but karma coming to us from past misdeeds we have little control over,

except by performing the necessary remedial measures...actions taken to

divert the course of past actions. Fortunately, as astrologers, we're able

to see this past karma and are able to initiate the appropriate remedies.

 

We should forever be grateful for this knowledge and use it for the good of

ourselves and others. Instead of blindly refuting remedies as being ungodly,

we should thank God for giving us such knowledge.

 

It is said that, in meditation, subtle thoughts rise from the subconscious

and if allowed to just manifest and dissipate without attachment we are

ridding ourselves of a lot of karma that would otherwise have found more

solid expression in our outer activity...meditation as penance...meditation

as evasive action...the greatest remedial measure for those disposed to do

it. For those not so disposed we can offer other remedies.

 

Many long-term meditators experience lucid dreaming and dissipate a lot of

negative karma whilst in the dreaming state of consciousness. But there are

many who will not be able to benefit in this way due to their lack of

interest in meditation, prayer etc...so, as we're told by the wise; "If a

man is hungry give him food, if he's suffering do all you can to eleviate

his pain". A doctor will prescribe medication...a good astrologer should be

able to prescribe more powerful remedies.

 

In today's (Western) world no-one is denied medical treatment because he's

poor. In a perfect world no-one will be denied astrological remedies because

he's poor.

 

Best Regards, Wendy

 

 

> WE CREATE OUR LIFE BY WHAT WE THINK. When you think

> "I'm lucky to be in a position to give" or "I'm lucky to be in a position

to

> help" these thoughts alone are enough to create the reality in which

you'll

> remain lucky and in a position to help and give.

>

> I do not think that EITHER there is karma OR N.D.Walsch is right, but that

> BOTH is right, and we all subconsciously carry out our karma by our

selves,

> i.e. we think thoughts which create the kind of reality which corresponds

> with our karma.

>

> Regards and love,

> Liliana

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

 

You wrote:

 

> So I wonder: if I were to consciously apply the same kind of thinking

>to

>the other houses, would this cause a happy revolution for those areas of my

>life?

Walsch says YES, Murphy says YES, Bärbel Mohr says YES, I believe they are

right. Bible says YES. Nobody can prove it, but I personally don't care

wheather it can be proved or not.

 

>And wondering again, would it be karmically predictable that this

>experiment be carried out,

 

I believe that the answer is again YES. But posible combinations in a

horoscope are probably inumerable.

 

>or is it truly possible for a person to affect his

>destiny by deliberate cause and effect?

 

There could be no light without darkness, no warmth without coldness, so

there can be no destiny without free will (and vice versa).

 

God is in each and every one of us, we all have the power to CREATE, and WE

ARE USING IT ALL THE TIME, without being aware of it. We cannot not create.

Negative thoughts (which predominate mostly) (re)create unpleasant reality.

A vicious circle.

Bärbel Mohr (a german author, wrote wonderful books, don't know wheather

they've been translated into other languages) gave excellent tips how to do

it, and what to avoid. One should avoid "formulations" which are clearly

lies, and which immediately trigger their negations in one's mind. For

instance, a person who is ill shouldn't try thinking "I am healthy" cause

the next moment "Nonsence, I AM ill" is going to come to his/her mind, so

the effect is going to be negative. So one should find formulations which

are positive AND TRUE. For instance "I love it when I'm healthy" is true,

and is not going to trigger an objection. All thoughts which begin with "I

love" and continue with whatever you desire, cause positive effects and

create reality in which you've achieved it. Taking 20 minutes each day for

thinking about things we love is going to make a big difference. But "I

WOULD love to be healthy" is negative thinking cause it implies that I'm not

healthy, so this formulation (re)creates the state of being ill. So one has

to be careful about this.

Important rule: our subconsciousness doesn't "understand" negation. So if a

student thinks "I hope I am not going to fail this exam"

his subconsciousness links "I" with "fail" and drops "not" out, and the

effect is negative. So "I believe I'm going to pass" is a better

formulation.

 

(I don't expect anyone has the

>answers; just musing about this possibility).

 

As I said, I don't care if it can be proved. I decided to try.

 

Regards and love,

Liliana

 

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/24/2001 10:40:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Carolhook writes:

 

 

> So I wonder: if I were to consciously apply the same kind of thinking to

> the other houses, would this cause a happy revolution for those areas of my

> life? And wondering again, would it be karmically predictable that this

> experiment be carried out, or is it truly possible for a person to affect

> his

> destiny by deliberate cause and effect? (I don't expect anyone has the

> answers; just musing about this possibility).

> Thanks, Liliana...I appreciate your email very much.

> Best wishes,

> Carol

>

 

Dear Carol,

 

As always, you have another great idea! When you say you are lucky to

have something, it's like what N.D. Walsch says about gratitude. I decided

to choose to be happy, and refuse to accept or give out

control/guilt/manipulation, even while things appeared nasty, and they got

better. After, in some cases, some interesting fireworks, but they really

did. And when you are feeling gratitude, it sure does seem like things are

much better, and it seems you attract more. I think you are on to something

big there!

Namaste,

Robin

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Liliana,

 

Very thoughtful reply. Thank you especially for explaining Mohr's ideas

about using God within to create, and how to determine whether it is ongoing

positive creation or unwittingly negative creation.

Best to you!

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Robin,

Thanks for writing, Robin. I hadn't heard of either author (Mohr or

Walsch) before. You spoke about choosing to be happy and not do

control/guilt/manipulation--how does one learn self-control in an area where

it's been lacking... this has to come from within, also. That must be the

hardest part.

 

You can try to reason with Mars, but by what method are Mars' perceptions

elevated until he voluntarily turns his sword into a plowshare? When that

Mars expression is within, how is the sword within reformed into something

beneficial? It can't be an easy job for the blacksmith...

 

Best wishes to you!

Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/26/2001 11:35:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Carolhook writes:

 

 

> I hadn't heard of either author (Mohr or

> Walsch) before. You spoke about choosing to be happy and not do

> control/guilt/manipulation--how does one learn self-control in an area

> where

> it's been lacking... this has to come from within, also. That must be the

> hardest part.

>

> You can try to reason with Mars, but by what method are Mars'

> perceptions

> elevated until he voluntarily turns his sword into a plowshare? When that

> Mars expression is within, how is the sword within reformed into something

> beneficial? It can't be an easy job for the blacksmith...

>

>

 

Dear Carol,

 

You know how you can get just so fed up with a situation, and things

just aren't working at all, and you just want to cut and run, but you don't

want the consequences of that either? You get bound and determined to find

an answer, because things have got to change? It's even hard to meditate

because of feeling so trapped, you're just thinking Tell me, tell me {gritted

teeth}, what am I doing wrong?

Kept reading things, this and that, and then read Neale Donald Walsch's

book Communion With God . It had one thing in it that eased my anguish over

a (business) mistake I had made, plus he said something about "Namaste" being

one of the nicest things we can say to each other, so hair stood up, and I

read and read all of his Conversations With God books. I told this to Raghu

separately, but it was like this cool sci-fi premise --the author was ranting

and raving to God (about the same kind of things I was), and he was waking up

at 4 am and writing his stuff down on a legal pad to just get it out and so

he wouldn't wake his family screaming and yelling at God. And then suddenly

the pencil in his hand starting writing back. He gets to ask God any and all

questions he wants to! It's mostly in a question and answer form. It was

both fun (my 13 year old son was reading over my shoulder, and said, "hey,

question and answers, cool, can I read it?" and he read them too. Saves him

a lot of misery!) and hard work --I meant I was going to "get" this! And

meanwhile things outside of the book (real life) (so-called) was just

non-stop one bad news thing after another.

But, it freed me up from so much guilt and garbage and sapping of

energy! I was not being true to myself (maybe Mars got happy when I stopped

that?) --one of the many eye-opening things was that when you "do unto

others" what you think they want or need (the good wifey straightjacket)

instead of what you need to be, you just fall into their drama and help

nothing. That came to a screeching halt. After initial fireworks, peace at

last! Someone thinks they need to get a reaction from you by hurting your

feelings, wants a fight, wants to get those control/guilt/entitlement/etc

issues going--and you just dance away cheerfully; after awhile they see they

are shadowboxing with themselves. The tune changes after a bit. Not gonna

slam them back, not gonna fight, nothing bad is gonna happen to them. We're

all gonna get where we need to go eventually, different paths are cool,

plenty to go around--oh the peace is blissful after all these years of

knotted up panties! LOL

It's almost more letting go of control in a way--I don't have to have

"my way" or even insist on my version of fairness--hey, God can bring you

stuff way better than we can think of in a narrow mindset!

Here's the weird thing--I'm losing weight around my waist! Guess

being uphappy is all heavy and tamasic, being happy is lightening? And,

everybody looks more beautiful to me! How do you guys do that?

It's like getting to throw out all this garbage we've been told. God

has gotten such a bad rap, that's a lot of our problems. So I guess the Mars

thing is eased because expressing that part of God in your life is eased and

mellowed. Some good things have started happening financially. And so much

of the things that drove me nuts before (or, I thought I should be unhappy

about, so I was), don't bother me a bit. Get rid of all the nonsense you

can, and there goes your prison--!

It's kind of like you don't have to worry so much about doing the

"right" things--you just throw out the garbage (whee! buh-bye!) and choose

what kind of person you want to be, and the energy flows like crazy to help

you be it!

Where CWG helps so much is that there is so much more garbage/lies/etc

than you thought, so it gets such a load off of you! We are so much more

free than we think, and nothing bad will happen when the chains dissolve.

Wish I were better with words, but it took God at least 3 volumes to

get it into my prison and bust me out, so if it sounds like Walsch's stuff is

for you, most libraries have copies and bookstores too, so he tells you how.

It is easier than you think for God to bust you out. The effort is in

listening to Him/Her, and even after finish reading the books you're still

connected and still listening. And if God wasn't listening to me, He/She

wouldn't have brought me to the excellent concepts that made you guys look so

beautiful.

Best wishes to you too!

Namaste,

Robin

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Robin,

Now I absolutely have to get Walsch's and Mohr's books. You describe

a major turnaround in your life after reading Walsch. I appreciate your

telling what Neale D. Walsch's books did for you and your young son.

If I have this right, the catalyst to change Mars from sword to

plowshare is first there can be utter turmoil in the 'sword' stage, then one

personally turns to God out of need for relief. The person gets out of

trying to make everything go right and asks God to do something please! Then

God takes over, divinely directing the rest of the work until everything is

moving in a better direction. God is the best 'blacksmith' for making plows

from swords...and Mars must 'bend' to a Higher authority. I will happily

look for these authors' books this weekend.

Thank you, Robin!

Namaste,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

 

You're welcome--and happy reading!

Namaste,

Robin