GJ List Test Three - My answer/Pursottam

[Guest guest]

Pursottam:

 

I see what you mean about the VP chart. 5L Mars is being exactly trined by

lagnesh Jupiter (0*14). Also VP MC is less than a degree from 5th lord

Saturn. Also VP alcabitius 5th house (29Pi) is almost exactly square 5L

Saturn.

 

I think your childbirth idea is good because it also brings in natal

Saturn. I linked in to 4th house of mother but obviously Saturn also rules

the 5th. The question is however, how could that 5th lord Saturn in the

12th conjunct Neptune and aspected by 8th lord Venus bring a healthy child

into the world? A caesarian at least, but more likely a stillbirth if

there was pregnancy. A pre-existing child's health wouldn't be good at

this time either.

 

The dashas are Sun-Mars. Sun and Mars are in the 8th with Mars aspecting

5L Saturn in the 12th -- again reiterating the problems to children theme.

If you reckon the dasha from Asc, you get Sat-Sat which is in keeping with

your idea of childbirth, although again, one wonders how it will turn out.

 

Hey, do you figure the D-7 has Sg rising (with DL Sun) or is it Scorpio

rising? If Sg rising, then 5L Aries occupied by Ketu ruled by Mars and

it's *exactly* opposed by Saturn (0*04). Can't be good for progeny.

 

But I'll blindly stick with my sick mother theory and see.

 

Chris

 

hAt 10:26 PM 6/18/01 +0100, you wrote:

>Om Krsnaaya Namah

>

>Hi Donna,

>

>I looked at the Varshaphala chart for the person in question, and now I'm

>more convinced than ever that the event probably was on the kids line -

>probably a childbirth. At the same time, the Varshaphala also shows Jupiter

>in debility, fifth Lord in the sixth, and Rahu in the fifth, also in exact

>Ithasala yoga with the putra saham (whose Lord also occupies the sixth).

>Hence, while I still think it was a childbirth, there may have been a

>strange Rahuvian twist to it - perhaps a long labour, maybe a caesarean, or

>maybe a premature baby or something like that, especially as the natal chart

>also holds such potential. I'll write up the full analysis if it's correct.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Pursottam

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Om Krsnaaya Namah

 

Hey Chris!

 

Thanks for your comments on my guess. We'll only know for sure tomorrow, but

it is nice to have some discussion of astrological technique beforehand.

 

>

> I see what you mean about the VP chart. 5L Mars is being exactly

> trined by

> lagnesh Jupiter (0*14). Also VP MC is less than a degree from 5th lord

 

Exactly - Out of the sixteen yogas of tajika astrology, the Ithasala yoga is

perhaps the most important, and it is based entirely on "western aspects"

between planets. The only difference is that the orbs of the aspect is

worked out by assigning an orb to a planet, and then finding the mean of the

two planets. This is the same way it's done in classical/medieval western

astrology, if I remember right.

 

>

> I think your childbirth idea is good because it also brings in natal

> Saturn. I linked in to 4th house of mother but obviously Saturn

> also rules

> the 5th. The question is however, how could that 5th lord Saturn in the

> 12th conjunct Neptune and aspected by 8th lord Venus bring a healthy child

> into the world? A caesarian at least, but more likely a stillbirth if

> there was pregnancy. A pre-existing child's health wouldn't be good at

> this time either.

 

I agree, and I think it's definitely a rough birth, perhaps even leaving

some trauma for the mother, but the birth chart shows the period to be

positive overall and this is why I can't accomodate the idea of a still

birth (of course, when the answers revealed, I'm sure I could find a million

reasons for it :-)

 

Some of those positive things are as follows (bear in mind I have Sun-Rahu

with parallax):

 

First and foremost, there is a nadi principle, that often seems to take

precedence even over normal analysis of the nodes. In the Mahadasa of any

planet in the eighth house, the antardasa/bhukti/sub-period of a natural

benefic will give bad results, while that of a natural malefic will give

positive results.

 

Here, the Sun is in the eighth, and Rahu is a natural malefic, so it's more

positive than negative, especially as he's aspected by two natural benefics,

and is diposited by yogakaraka (and fifth co-Lord) Saturn. In the navamsa,

Rahu is in Taurus, and so is very strong (whether or not he is exalted

there). Apart from this, in the BAV of Lagna Lord Venus, Rahu has five

bindus, and in the BAV of Mahadasa Lord Sun, he has five again. So overall

this seems to be a positive antardasa, with regards to Rahu significations.

 

I agree that Rahu exactly on the IC, could have caused problems in early

family life, but I think his antardasa in the Sun's mahadasa should be

positive overall.

 

Coming to Rahu's significations, note that he is the chara putra-karaka

(using the eight karaka scheme), and he is the stronger Lord of the fifth,

while being disposited by the other fifth Lord. Rahu is also aspecting and

aspected by Jupiter (the fifth house aspect), and Saturn (the ninth house

aspect). Also on the the day, Jupiter (natural karaka for kids) was

transiting EXACTLY over Rahu.

 

This is basically what leads me to the kids idea, but there's a lot more,

which I'll post if it's right.

 

>

> The dashas are Sun-Mars. Sun and Mars are in the 8th with Mars aspecting

> 5L Saturn in the 12th -- again reiterating the problems to children theme.

 

How do you get that? Neither planetary aspect, nor sign based aspects seem

to show Sun/Mars aspected the twelfth. Jupiter does, though.

 

> Hey, do you figure the D-7 has Sg rising (with DL Sun) or is it Scorpio

> rising? If Sg rising, then 5L Aries occupied by Ketu ruled by Mars and

> it's *exactly* opposed by Saturn (0*04). Can't be good for progeny.

 

I'm not too sure on the D-7 here, as the Lagna is close to border. Based on

the VP, if my guess is right, I think it may well be Sagittarius. Saturn is

definitely bad bad bad. But he's also second Lord of family. So, I think

maybe it shows delayed birth, difficult birth, sick child, only one child or

something seriously bad, but there still should be a kid, I think. Also,

Lagna Lord and karaka Jupiter being at 4*24' of Capricorn in D-7 has to show

major problems. BTW, did you notice the tertiary progressed station of Mars

on 17/12/1985, while Mars was exactly transiting the Lagna? I wonder if

Mars's D-7 significations come into play, perhaps causing something bad to

happen to children.

 

So I agree there are bad signs, but here I'm sticking to my guns. This time

of course, I decided not ignore the prashna - I'll post that if it's

correct, because it is very clear.

 

Time to sit and wait for the answers now,

 

Pursottam

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Pursottam:

 

>Some of those positive things are as follows (bear in mind I have Sun-Rahu

>with parallax):

 

Oh, yes! Oh no!!:-) So this is an acid test of sorts.

 

>

>First and foremost, there is a nadi principle, that often seems to take

>precedence even over normal analysis of the nodes. In the Mahadasa of any

>planet in the eighth house, the antardasa/bhukti/sub-period of a natural

>benefic will give bad results, while that of a natural malefic will give

>positive results.

>

>Here, the Sun is in the eighth, and Rahu is a natural malefic, so it's more

>positive than negative, especially as he's aspected by two natural benefics,

>and is diposited by yogakaraka (and fifth co-Lord) Saturn. In the navamsa,

>Rahu is in Taurus, and so is very strong (whether or not he is exalted

>there).

 

Why ignore a straight-up analysis of Rahu? What about Rahu in rashi?

Sitting in the 4th of mother, its lord is Saturn and its in the 12th(bad)

aspected by Jupiter (OK) and Rahu itself is aspected by Cancer Moon (good)

but its conjunct Pluto (bad). Star lord for Rahu is also Moon. This Rahu

is closely tied to the Moon. Gee, this approach also has a certain

maternal appeal. Hurray for parallax!

 

Apart from this, in the BAV of Lagna Lord Venus, Rahu has five

>bindus, and in the BAV of Mahadasa Lord Sun, he has five again. So overall

>this seems to be a positive antardasa, with regards to Rahu significations.

>

>I agree that Rahu exactly on the IC, could have caused problems in early

>family life, but I think his antardasa in the Sun's mahadasa should be

>positive overall.

>

>Coming to Rahu's significations, note that he is the chara putra-karaka

>(using the eight karaka scheme), and he is the stronger Lord of the fifth,

>while being disposited by the other fifth Lord. Rahu is also aspecting and

>aspected by Jupiter (the fifth house aspect), and Saturn (the ninth house

>aspect). Also on the the day, Jupiter (natural karaka for kids) was

>transiting EXACTLY over Rahu.

 

I took that as being potentially bad for mother(IC) since natally Jupiter

isn't in good shape: in the 8th, enemy of Venus/ruling bad houses, hemmed

in between malefics Mars and Sun, dispositor Venus although exalted is in

the 6th aspected by Saturn in the 12th

>

>This is basically what leads me to the kids idea, but there's a lot more,

>which I'll post if it's right.

>

>>

>> The dashas are Sun-Mars. Sun and Mars are in the 8th with Mars aspecting

>> 5L Saturn in the 12th -- again reiterating the problems to children theme.

>

>How do you get that? Neither planetary aspect, nor sign based aspects seem

>to show Sun/Mars aspected the twelfth. Jupiter does, though.

 

Please ignore. Just a figment of my imagination.

 

>

>> Hey, do you figure the D-7 has Sg rising (with DL Sun) or is it Scorpio

>> rising? If Sg rising, then 5L Aries occupied by Ketu ruled by Mars and

>> it's *exactly* opposed by Saturn (0*04). Can't be good for progeny.

>

>I'm not too sure on the D-7 here, as the Lagna is close to border. Based on

>the VP, if my guess is right, I think it may well be Sagittarius. Saturn is

>definitely bad bad bad. But he's also second Lord of family. So, I think

>maybe it shows delayed birth, difficult birth, sick child, only one child or

>something seriously bad, but there still should be a kid, I think. Also,

>Lagna Lord and karaka Jupiter being at 4*24' of Capricorn in D-7 has to show

>major problems. BTW, did you notice the tertiary progressed station of Mars

>on 17/12/1985, while Mars was exactly transiting the Lagna?

 

I didn't notice the station, but that's a great point -- was it on Jul 12

BTW? How do you figure Mars was transiting the lagna?

 

I wonder if

>Mars's D-7 significations come into play, perhaps causing something bad to

>happen to children.

 

I'd like to think Mars' rashi placements were somehow invoked. On your

side, it is conjunct Jupiter for children and it's chandra lagna 5th lord.

No obvious connections to mother. I wonder what Rick would say?

 

Chris

 

 

>So I agree there are bad signs, but here I'm sticking to my guns. This time

>of course, I decided not ignore the prashna - I'll post that if it's

>correct, because it is very clear.

>

>Time to sit and wait for the answers now,

>

>Pursottam

>

>

>_______

>

>Get your free @ address at

>

>

>

>gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Om Krsnaaya Namah

 

Hi Chris,

 

>

> Oh, yes! Oh no!!:-) So this is an acid test of sorts.

>

 

Of course, one test don't prove much (me defending my parameters :-)

 

> >

> >First and foremost, there is a nadi principle, that often seems to take

> >precedence even over normal analysis of the nodes. In the Mahadasa of any

> >planet in the eighth house, the antardasa/bhukti/sub-period of a natural

> >benefic will give bad results, while that of a natural malefic will give

> >positive results.

> >

> >Here, the Sun is in the eighth, and Rahu is a natural malefic,

> so it's more

> >positive than negative, especially as he's aspected by two

> natural benefics,

> >and is diposited by yogakaraka (and fifth co-Lord) Saturn. In

> the navamsa,

> >Rahu is in Taurus, and so is very strong (whether or not he is exalted

> >there).

>

 

> Why ignore a straight-up analysis of Rahu? What about Rahu in rashi?

> Sitting in the 4th of mother, its lord is Saturn and its in the 12th(bad)

> aspected by Jupiter (OK) and Rahu itself is aspected by Cancer Moon (good)

> but its conjunct Pluto (bad). Star lord for Rahu is also Moon. This Rahu

> is closely tied to the Moon. Gee, this approach also has a certain

> maternal appeal. Hurray for parallax!

 

I don't think I did ignore the straight up analysis. Though Rahu's

dispositor is weak, Rahu himself absorbs the nice benefic energy he receives

from the Moon and Jupiter, while receiving no malefic aspects. While Pluto

is conjunct the Moon and stuff, this doesn't necessarily affect the Rahu

bhukti. And while I agree the chart does not look to good for the mother,

why the Sun Dasa?

 

>

> I took that as being potentially bad for mother(IC) since natally Jupiter

> isn't in good shape: in the 8th, enemy of Venus/ruling bad houses, hemmed

> in between malefics Mars and Sun, dispositor Venus although exalted is in

> the 6th aspected by Saturn in the 12th

 

All true, but there are contradictory indications in the navamsa - Jupiter

in Pisces in the fourth conjunct the Moon (although I must admit there are

malefic aspects. In any case, I don't see Jupiter as being a severe malefic

as far as the native's relationship with the mother is concerned, although I

do see him as the worst functional malefic in this chart.

 

>

> I didn't notice the station, but that's a great point -- was it on Jul 12

> BTW? How do you figure Mars was transiting the lagna?

 

Sorry - British Date format! According to GJ, it happens on 17 December

1985, when Mars was also exactly on the Lagna. My feeling is that the native

probably had some accident or health problem, because not only is Mars the

natural karaka for accidents, but is also a double maraka - ruling both the

maraka houses, and he occupies the eighth house of accidents. His P3

station, and his physical transit on the lagna at the same time suggests

something major related to his natal significations occuring at that time,

and I would probably say some sort of accident. But, I haven't looked at

this Vedically yet.

 

One more day...

 

Pursottam

 

 

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