Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 To Robert and all listmembers, May your future be happy and productive and a blessing to all. As Visvanathan likes to say, "Your Own Self" has provided much food for thought, which to me is a portion of my daily bread. I am grateful for all listmembers' contributions on this list. I think of debates with feeling as being evidence that there are persons with feelings behind their words appearing onscreen. This medium can express itself as a personal one while oft the Aquarian (?) electronic medium appears impersonal and inconsiderate of individuals, owing to many of us joining together from around the globe without meeting face to face. If we met in person, shared a cup of tea together, or coffee, would we have a different response to our friends' commentary? I wonder what the Internet will be like in another decade. For good reason, perhaps, we do not see each other while in our pajamas typing away! May God be with you all. I feel my life is enriched by online daily bread so freely offered. One day I hope to have a tenth the knowledge and expertise offered here by just one of our many learneds. To what has been and what will be, then, many thanks, many thanks, from "Your Own Self", as well as yours truly, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu Namaste Jyotishi friends, I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for now, its time out for me. With sincere respects and gratitude to all - Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Robert: I understand. After benefitting from all your helpful contributions on the list, I feel as if I have read your book already! Well, maybe just the rough draft... Good luck and thanks for everything. Chris At 01:13 PM 5/6/01 -0700, you wrote: >Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > >Namaste Jyotishi friends, > >I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In >the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, >to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a >natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when >one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she >tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning >process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things >to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the >many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us >all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum >seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to >conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there >may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring >to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the >competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my >intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and >sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > >So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final >analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and >private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books >I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, >students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for >now, its time out for me. > >With sincere respects and gratitude to all - >Robert > >===================================== >Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer >760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. >Bend, OR. 97701-9037 >Phone: 541-318-0248 >visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail >rk. rk > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Dear Robert, Sincerely hoping you return quickly. Very best - Sateesh. ======== - "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch <gjlist> 06 May 2001 21:13 [gjlist] Happy trails to you : Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu : : Namaste Jyotishi friends, : : I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In : the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, : to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a : natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when : one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she : tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning : process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things : to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the : many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us : all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum : seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to : conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there : may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring : to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the : competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my : intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and : sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. : : So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final : analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and : private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books : I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, : students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for : now, its time out for me. : : With sincere respects and gratitude to all - : Robert : : ===================================== : Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer : 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. : Bend, OR. 97701-9037 : Phone: 541-318-0248 : visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail : rk. rk : : : : gjlist- : : : : Your use of is subject to : : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 That's cool Robert. 'See you around. Curtis Burns At 01:13 PM 5/6/01 -0700, you wrote: >Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > >Namaste Jyotishi friends, > >I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In >the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, >to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a >natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when >one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she >tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning >process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things >to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the >many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us >all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum >seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to >conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there >may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring >to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the >competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my >intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and >sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > >So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final >analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and >private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books >I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, >students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for >now, its time out for me. > >With sincere respects and gratitude to all - >Robert > >===================================== >Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer >760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. >Bend, OR. 97701-9037 >Phone: 541-318-0248 >visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail >rk. rk > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Dear Robert, Please do not leave us. You are such a valuable member. Regards, Sunita. >"Robert A. Koch" <rkoch >gjlist >gjlist >[gjlist] Happy trails to you >Sun, 06 May 2001 13:13:27 -0700 > >Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > >Namaste Jyotishi friends, > >I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In >the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, >to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a >natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when >one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she >tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning >process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things >to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the >many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us >all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum >seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to >conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there >may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring >to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the >competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my >intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and >sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > >So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final >analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and >private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books >I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, >students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for >now, its time out for me. > >With sincere respects and gratitude to all - >Robert > >===================================== >Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer >760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. >Bend, OR. 97701-9037 >Phone: 541-318-0248 >visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail >rk. rk > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2001 Report Share Posted May 6, 2001 Dear Robert, Controversy reigns from time to time, but given time, it invariably settles down of it's own accord. There are as many differing views as there are differing people and (dare I say it) differing Gurus. There is no doubt that you have made a significant contribution, and in certain areas your knowledge is unquestionable, in other areas you, like the rest of us, are still learning. It's a pity (I feel) that we can't all exchange our knowledge in a spirit of sharing, rather than in a spirit of teaching. There are many learned jyotishis here who have offered precious jewels from time to time, yourself included. But none of us should consider ourselves teacher (on the list). I have much to learn still and as long as there's breath in my body I'll continue to learn. I think all jyotishis will admit this. I understand your feelings at the moment, weariness comes about after a lengthy battle...but Robert, I hope you will rescind your decision and continue to make a contribution based on friendship and sharing rather than ego and prejudice. Regards Wendy YOU WROTE: Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu Namaste Jyotishi friends, I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for now, its time out for me. With sincere respects and gratitude to all - Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Dear Robert, Its a sad story that a learned scholar like you should decide to quit the list. We have learnt a lot from your observations and experiences. It is only through experiences one learns and they become a stepping stone for future trials especially in astrology which needs to give people a scientific reason for being part of it. There is already so little faith left in astrology. It may be added here that there are many learned astrologers but they have tried to keep their experiences to themselves which has made it very difficult to research into astrology. And needless to say that maybe what they have tried to keep to themselves may have been an isolated incident not applicable in all cases. This list is an opportunity and thanks to internet communication and exchange of ideas is possible to-day. No disagreement should be taken as a personal insult. After all there are many who are benefitting from your comments !! Though we wish you all the luck wit your books, maybe you will reconsider your decision with occassional in puts. Good luck. Kirpall Singh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Namaste Robert, It has been a learning experience. Wishing you all the best. Anshu - "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch <gjlist> Sunday, 06 May, 2001 01:13 PM [gjlist] Happy trails to you > Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > > Namaste Jyotishi friends, > > I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In > the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, > to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a > natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when > one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she > tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning > process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things > to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the > many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us > all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum > seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to > conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there > may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring > to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the > competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my > intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and > sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > > So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final > analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and > private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books > I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, > students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for > now, its time out for me. > > With sincere respects and gratitude to all - > Robert > > ===================================== > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > Phone: 541-318-0248 > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > rk. rk > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Namaste, You were one of the best teachers here, and it is a sad thing to lose you. It would have been nice if you could have taught us without the constant challenges to even the most basic concepts you tried to present, but I guess that is the karma of this list. How can people be expected to expand in learning if our teachers feel they cannot teach? This is a great tragedy and I hope for everyone's sake it is not repeated in the future. Good luck with your projects and drop in to say hi once in a while! BTW Does anyone have the inception chart for this list? Please post, or send to me by email. I have noticed that several learned teachers have left the list. There must be some affliction to the 9th house, 9th pada or a Jupiter-Rahu combination in the rasi/navamsa. regards, Alex J gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch@b...> wrote: > Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > > Namaste Jyotishi friends, > > I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In > the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, > to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a > natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when > one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she > tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning > process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things > to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the > many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us > all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum > seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to > conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there > may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring > to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the > competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my > intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and > sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > > So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final > analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and > private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books > I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, > students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for > now, its time out for me. > > With sincere respects and gratitude to all - > Robert > > ===================================== > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > Phone: 541-318-0248 > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > rk@r... rk@r... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Dear Robert, Your absence will leave a tremendous void on this list. It is with regret that I see you go. Phyl - Robert A. Koch <rkoch <gjlist> Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:13 PM [gjlist] Happy trails to you > Sarvam Sri Krsnarpanam Astu > > Namaste Jyotishi friends, > > I want to say this before discontinuing my participation on this list: In > the exchange of knowledge, those who are experienced try in a sincere way, > to teach and guide, according to their knowledge and expertise. This is a > natural process, i.e. that when one is a beginner, he/she listens; and when > one has achieved a certain level of proficiency and understanding, he/she > tries to hand down what he has learned and guide others in their learning > process. This is really my purpose in being on this list. I have things > to teach, and I have things to learn as well, and have benefited from the > many learned astrologers who have volunteered their time to teach us > all. However, for some reason, certain persons participating in this forum > seem to be at odds synergistically and are thus polarized, either due to > conflicting belief structures, or due to whatever obstructing karmas there > may be between them. In many ways, it has been invigorating and inspiring > to be involved, but mostly I am getting tired of the challenges and the > competitive spirit found here. I take full responsibility for my > intermittent Rajasic responses in certain competitive exchanges, and > sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me. > > So goodbye to all -- its been a good experience, I think, in the final > analysis. From here on, apart from my regular work with clients and > private students, I will dedicate my spare time to completing the two books > I am working on, as well as doing researches with a group of good friends, > students, and colleagues. You may hear from me here and there, but for > now, its time out for me. > > With sincere respects and gratitude to all - > Robert > > ===================================== > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > Phone: 541-318-0248 > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > rk. rk > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Dear Robert I hope your absence will be short lived and that you are successful with your other projects .Thanks for teaching us. One observation though is that in dealing with others we should be alert to others sensitivities (particularly as astrologers).For example Capricorn is an iconaclastic lagna since the natural 9th house is given the 12th position or the house of loss .Now if someone also has a Jupiter Rahu combination in their chart then this tendency is going to be considerably magnified .It may not be the native's fault they may have had very bad experiences with teacher and Gurus in this and previous lives but the native is going to have a certain psychological orienatation towards Gurus that should be dealt with delicately and with understanding . Whenever you mention combinations in a big group there is often someone who posesses these combinations who may take offense .So please excuse any offenses in this regard . Nicholas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Kirpall Singh Wrote: >snip< No disagreement should be taken as a personal insult. >snip< It's a consequence of karma that some of us find ourselves "under fire" from time to time. It's a consequence of karma that some of us are indeed subjected to "personal insults" from time to time. It takes "courage" to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again; it also (importantly) takes a certain amount of "humility" to allow those (who wish to) to deliberately insult you over and over again and not respond with the same level of insults. These qualities can be clearly seen in Rashi and should be studied in order to get a clear, unbiased picture of events as they unfold. This, after all, is what we're hoping to become proficient at with all our studies. The fact that some have decided to leave the list is a consequence of their own karma, and to infer that this action is the responsibility of those who had the courage to engage in the debate will kill the possibility of any future debates. To debate a point that is erroneously being put forward in the hope of clarifying that error is often seen as some sort of personal contest between the participating astrologers. Then before long lines are drawn in the sand, people take sides, and the game of politics begins. What a stifling atmosphere! Little wonder many astrologers keep much of their knowledge to themselves. I also regret Robert's decision to leave the list, but it was HIS decision and no-one else is responsible for that. Regards Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Dear respected Jyotishis and friends, I want to thank all of you who wrote in response of my "retirement" letter from the GJ-list, and especially to all of those of you who wrote to me privately asking me to remain and not leave. I am thankful, in fact overwhelmed, by all of your heart felt and generous expressions of love and appreciation for whatever small contributions I have been able to make. So thanks again to all you sincere souls - you made my day, and I will always be grateful to you. :-) Still, I believe it is time to move on for me. This is not to say that I will never show my face on this forum again, but lets just say that my participation will be much less than what it has been. You see, I will be reaching my 54th birthday this year, and it feels to me like time is running out. Yeah, I don't have much longevity, as you can see if you look at my chart from that angle. I've only got one dasa left (Venus), and I don't believe I will come anywhere near to finishing that dasa. I have all these book projects going on, and much time is being directed to private students also, and I don't want to leave any of this unfinished by the time I exit this incarnation. Anyway, how's that for doom and gloom? But seriously, when you're on the last lap, you tend to give it all you have, and that's what I will be doing from here on in the areas mentioned above. So I am going to take a break for a while, and meditate on all of this, and ask my Ishta-devata Lord Sri Krsna for guidance. I will be back, simply because of the warm, engaging, and heartfelt wishes that I received from many of you. I am awed by the dedication to the path of Jyotish, truth, and spirituality that is shown by all of you. Keep up the good work - you will be rewarded one day in ways beyond measure. God bless, and best wishes, Robert ===================================== Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. Bend, OR. 97701-9037 Phone: 541-318-0248 visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail rk. rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Nicholas wrote: For example Capricorn is an iconaclastic lagna since the natural 9th house is given the 12th position or the house of loss .Now if someone also has a Jupiter Rahu combination in their chart then this tendency is going to be considerably magnified .It may not be the native's fault they may have had very bad experiences with teacher and Gurus in this and previous lives but the native is going to have a certain psychological orienatation towards Gurus that should be dealt with delicately and with understanding. MY REPLY: Let's not mask your intent in a veil of polite(?) innuendo Nicholas. We all know you're referring to my horoscope...politics is indeed a dirty business! But let's not forget that the 12th is a "moksha" house...let those who are proficient in astrology come to their own conclusions. This will be my last response!! Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 MY APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS (EDITED) MESSAGE TWICE...SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY SERVER. Kirpall Singh Wrote: >snip< No disagreement should be taken as a personal insult. >snip< MY REPLY: It's a consequence of karma that some of us find ourselves "under fire" from time to time. It's a consequence of karma that some of us are indeed subjected to "personal insults" from time to time. It takes "courage" to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again; it also (importantly) takes a certain amount of "humility" to allow those (who wish to) to deliberately insult you over and over again and not respond on the same level. These qualities can be clearly seen in Rashi and should be studied in order to get a clear, unbiased picture of events as they unfold. This, after all, is what we're hoping to become proficient at with all our studies. The fact that some have decided to leave the list is a consequence of their own karma, and to infer that this action is the responsibility of those who had the courage to engage in the debate will kill the possibility of any future debates. To debate a point that is erroneously being put forward in the hope of clarifying that point is often seen as some sort of personal contest between the participating astrologers. Then before long lines are drawn in the sand, people take sides, and the game of politics begins. What a stifling atmosphere! Little wonder many astrologers keep much of their knowledge to themselves. I also regret Robert's decision to leave the list, but it was HIS decision and no-one else is responsible for that. Regards Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Dear Mr. Robert, I am sorry to see you leaving. Stay on if you can, and become passive like me. I was also almost contemplating to become passive as oflate I have been noticing, that discussing astrology is almost taking personal tones. regards, Manoj _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 I think that anyone who would intimate that Robert is a "self-styled guru" has no idea where he is coming from and no idea what they are talking about as far as he is concerned. Having had a reading with Robert, I have to say I'm glad the reading was taped because I was overcome with what I was "reading" back (involuntarily) about the energy and essence of this good, gentle compassionate man. I don't know how to express this very well, but I felt that his energy is so pure and sincere, his essence is that of a holy man. The last, because of his genuine humility, he probably doesn't know, but I felt like crying when I realized and recognized what was true. Only his compassion and understanding gave me the courage to push through and carry on with the reading, but I was kind of gulping and having trouble focusing on the little messes of my chart in the presence of that kind of spiritual infusion. I felt so happy, too, because I was once before briefly in the presence of a holy man and it was over so fast and you miss it forever after, and here was a surprise gift of that nature. This isn't anything anyone told me, it's just what I know, OK? Firsthand experience. Robert's intentions were to give an astrology reading (I asked for a reading in lesson form), so when I speak of spiritual infusion, this is what happened to me because of this involuntary reading thing on my part--nobody can help what energy they project. It made me feel so sad about what has happened on the list, because maybe some of you don't know what you're missing, but some of us sure do know. As I perceive it, Robert is about giving and I wish somehow I could protect that in this world. I often startle people outside of the "cyber world" by focusing very intently on them when they say something because of trying to discern their intent. And sometimes you have to decide well, I don't relate well to that type of person, I'm walking away. Might be interested in what I read about someone who tries to engage you in a power struggle--you can have the drive for power over others in your heart, or you can have love in your heart, but not both. Jealousy makes it pretty crowded and uncomfortable in there too, and is no fun to boot. I will try to make certain of my own intent before saying things, and it's the human condition to have problems caused by our egos in various ways, Vanity being de debbil's favorite sin and all. Also, I like to remember: "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine, while a sour spirit drieth the bones." Namaste, y'all Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Yesterday was a bank holiday in England and it's only today that I had the chance to look at my e-mails and found out what Robert is planning to do........... I CAN'T SAY I LIKE IT VERY MUCH........I was going to write to him hoping that he might change his mind but I think I am too late ........ So, the only thing I can do, Robert, is thank you for your excellent contributions to the list. I have learnt a lot from you and I sincerely hope that you won't desert us completely. I wish you all the success your deserve with your projects. Namaste Dany - Robert A. Koch <rkoch <gjlist> Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:31 AM RE: [gjlist] Happy trails to you > Dear respected Jyotishis and friends, > > I want to thank all of you who wrote in response of my "retirement" letter > from the GJ-list, and especially to all of those of you who wrote to me > privately asking me to remain and not leave. I am thankful, in fact > overwhelmed, by all of your heart felt and generous expressions of love and > appreciation for whatever small contributions I have been able to > make. So thanks again to all you sincere souls - you made my day, and I > will always be grateful to you. :-) > > Still, I believe it is time to move on for me. This is not to say that I > will never show my face on this forum again, but lets just say that my > participation will be much less than what it has been. You see, I will be > reaching my 54th birthday this year, and it feels to me like time is > running out. Yeah, I don't have much longevity, as you can see if you look > at my chart from that angle. I've only got one dasa left (Venus), and I > don't believe I will come anywhere near to finishing that dasa. I have all > these book projects going on, and much time is being directed to private > students also, and I don't want to leave any of this unfinished by the time > I exit this incarnation. > > Anyway, how's that for doom and gloom? But seriously, when you're on the > last lap, you tend to give it all you have, and that's what I will be doing > from here on in the areas mentioned above. > > So I am going to take a break for a while, and meditate on all of this, and > ask my Ishta-devata Lord Sri Krsna for guidance. I will be back, simply > because of the warm, engaging, and heartfelt wishes that I received from > many of you. I am awed by the dedication to the path of Jyotish, truth, > and spirituality that is shown by all of you. Keep up the good work - you > will be rewarded one day in ways beyond measure. > > God bless, and best wishes, > Robert > > ===================================== > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > Phone: 541-318-0248 > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > rk. rk > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Dear Wendy, Please join us in a cup of tea or a cold drink, Wendy--it's been a long time since listmembers just sat down to a pleasant table in a place like this, our mid-month resting place. We have friendship, tea, cold drinks, and here's freshly sliced Orange Braid Bread, strawberries, and sliced kiwi fruit. We are just being thankful for Das, and for Sabine's kindness to let us hear from him. Feel free to relax and unwind at tea withg us, Wendy. See that line of trees where the stray cat is walking? You can see the silvery sides of the maple leaves when the wind picks up, and they say that it means the drought will be over soon when the leaves flutter like that. Let's enjoy the afternoon, see if it doesn't rain a few hours from now. with smiles, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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