RE: Complextion/colour/quiz/answer

[Guest guest]

Hello Pursottam, Karen, and All:

 

Thanks for taking the "bait" here. The answer is chart 2 is attractive, a

radiant woman of Indian extraction who garners looks and smiles wherever

she goes. I didn't pick these charts because they would be especially

tricky (although I think they are), but because they strike me as more

typical of people we all know. No movie stars here. And yet, it's hard to

see where the attractiveness of chart 2 comes from. And the fact that

neither of you got it, (and I still can't clearly see it!) suggests to me

that the staid, familiar ideas of attractiveness (aspects to lagna and

lagnesh) don't really cover the topic properly.

 

She has Taurus lagna with Venus in Cancer with Mars. Not good presumably.

Jupiter is in lagna. Moon isn't doing anything in Virgo. In navamsha,

29Gem rises. This presents the possibility that she might Cancer rising,

which although that would place Mercury and Mars in lagna and Jupiter

aspecting it (straining boundaries of credulity here), at least that would

have Cancer asc ruler Moon conjunct Venus in Virgo. Not much, but something.

 

But here'a an idea that just struck me. Extrapolating from Robert's

observation that beauty is often found in Venus in Capricorn charts --

perhaps due to the fact that Venus's moolatirkona sign Libra is 10 houses

from Capricorn -- why not look at the position of the 10th house from Venus

in all charts? Here it seems to fit: 10th from Venus in Cancer is Aries

and its ruler, Mars, is conjunct Venus in the 1st. That conforms to the

same karakamsha principle that I believe is implicit in Robert's

observation. For beauty to be manifest to the world, there must be a

connection between the 10th house of public recognition and Venus, when

Venus is used as lagna. All comments welcome here as always.

 

Now besides trying to find a way to explain why chart 2 is of an attractive

person, we also need to explain why charts 1 and 3 are not. (that's a lot

of explaining to do!) I'll comment on Pursottam's answers below, and since

Karen's was so lengthy, I will post a separate response to her.

 

Chart 1 belongs to a guy I know who is the quintessential computer geek

(apologies to Das!) He is tall and thin with a pale and almost unhealthy

complexion. Perhaps the Moon makes him pale.

 

>

>1. Mercury, the second and fifth Lord sits extremely close to the Lagna

>degree, retrograde.

>

>2. There is an aspect from the Moon, which though debilitated, is just past

>being full, and so may cause benefits in aspecting his exaltation sign.

>

>3. The Moon itself receives a very tight beneficial aspect from Jupiter, who

>also happens to rule the eighth, another house responsible for sexual

>attractiveness.

 

This is definitely wide of the mark. He is a workoholic who I believe

sublimates his unfulfilled sexual desires in work. He is single at 37

years of age and is almost never involved with a girlfriend. In fact, I

wouldnt be surprised if he were a virgin although I don't know him well

enough to ask.

 

>

>4. The Lagna Lord Venus is exalted within one degree of maximum exaltation

>in the eleventh, and conjoins the eighth Lord Jupiter who is in his own

>house.

 

Right, this is a flashing neon light in the chart and yet is does nothing

for his attractiveness as far as I can see. And what are we to make of

Robert's Saturn-Venus connection giving beauty? His Venus is aspected very

closely by Saturn in its own sign. As for my speculative point, the 10th

from Venus is Sagittarius which is occupied by Ketu, a malefic. So that

might be in keeping with the principle, however, 10L Jupiter is conjunct

Venus in Pisces so one would have expected more from this consolation

prize. Perhaps the fact that Venus rules bad houses for Pisces lagnas and

is an enemy of Jupiter overrules the simple 1-10 connection. If that were

the case, then there would have to be other factors that would account for

the attractiveness of Venus in Pisces natives -- or are we suggesting that

they will always tend to be plain?

 

Chris

[Guest guest]

Om Krishnaaya Namah

 

Hey Chris,

 

Thanks for the answer. I agree with you that blind tests are the best way

for us to really examine whether our (rather large) toolboxes contain tools

of real use or not. Let me make some hindsight comments (the thing we're so

good at :-)) on this puzzle.

 

> see where the attractiveness of chart 2 comes from. And the fact that

> neither of you got it, (and I still can't clearly see it!) suggests to me

> that the staid, familiar ideas of attractiveness (aspects to lagna and

> lagnesh) don't really cover the topic properly.

 

I think the problem is that there's such a vast array of combinations and

techniques that we have discussed them all without giving any time to the

prioritisation of them. I did see signs of beauty in chart two, and was torn

between one and two. My conclusion was that chart one had stronger

indications because to me the indications seemed to be of basic astrology,

while the beauty in the second chart was seen more largely through the use

of more subtle techniques i.e. Arudha's, Rashi aspects etc. And if this

challenge was presented to me again, I would still probably bet my money on

the first chart, simply because that seems stronger from the viewpoint of

the basics. Considering that you say that the native looks rather plain and

even unhealthy, I wonder if there are factors in the chart that cause this -

a kind of "beauty-bhanga" yoga.

 

Let me mention the signs in chart two that seemed suggestive of beauty, but

not as strong as that of chart one:

 

1. The Moon is in Chitra Nakshatra, a nakshatra with a reputation for

producing "gorgeous people", in the fifth which happens to be the Arudha

Lagna.

 

2. Jupiter, the eighth Lord sits in the Lagna unafflicted and soon turning

Stationary.

 

3. Venus, the Lagna Lord sits in Cancer in the third - a very

"Venusian-Lunar" combination that sounds rather beautiful.

 

4. Saturn, the Yogakaraka for Taurus Lagna's sits strongly in Aquarius.

Based on list discussions Saturn Venus relationships seem to produce beauty.

There is no normal relationship between them, but by sign aspects, they

would be said to aspect each other, and because they are both at 7*, this

would be an exact aspect.

 

So these indications tore me between chart one and chart two, and having

weighed them up, I wrongly chose chart one. And I probably would again, if

similar charts were presented again.

 

 

> in all charts? Here it seems to fit: 10th from Venus in Cancer is Aries

> and its ruler, Mars, is conjunct Venus in the 1st. That conforms to the

> same karakamsha principle that I believe is implicit in Robert's

> observation. For beauty to be manifest to the world, there must be a

> connection between the 10th house of public recognition and Venus, when

> Venus is used as lagna. All comments welcome here as always.

 

I like the direction this is taking - certain conditions that MUST be

present for beauty. However, while this may be important, in chart one it is

even stronger - so why the plain and unhealthy appearance?

 

My personal feeling now is that firstly the Arudha Lagna is important in

determining beauty, so much so that it should be one of our main priorities.

And secondly it should have connection with the Moon/Venus either by their

direct presence, or by sign-aspect. E.g. in Pfeiffer's case, the Moon alone

gave sign aspect to the AL. I do wonder how helpful Saturn related to the AL

can be, considering it's usually the planet cited as being old and ugly. In

the case of chart one, Saturn, even in Capricorn does not seem to have been

helpful in the AL. So even if he may be helpful when strong and related to

Venus in other houses, we need to see how he acts in the AL.

 

Thanks for this discussion,

 

Pursottam

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

[Guest guest]

Namaste Chris,

 

Check also Rasi dristi. Although both charts are lorded by Venus, the

first receives rasi dristi to the ascendat by all planets from

moveable signs, which are Saturn, Ketu, Rahu and Mars. Arudha lagna

has Saturn and Ketu, aspected by Mars and Rahu. Navamsa ascendant has

Saturn, Rahu aspect combination. Lagna lord goes into Pisces, and

Navamsa lord into Scorpio, which is not a sign of beauty.

 

The Second chart receives only a Venus, Mars aspect from Cancer.

There is no graha drist. Therefore the only influences on ascendant

are Jupiter, Venus, Mars. Secondly Arudha Lagna has Moon. Navamsa

ascendant receives rasi dristi from Venus and Saturn only. Important

is fact that lagna lord in both charts goes into Moon's sign, giving

paka lagna (physical body) to be beautiful like Moon. Placement of

lagna lord is very important in giving the features of person. You

can see as 7th lord in a sign will give the looks or Moon sign of a

wife according to the sign. Same goes for all houses, ie lagna -

self.

 

For comparison, Woody Allen receives only rasi dristi on ascendant

from Mars in Saturn's sign, and receives Moon/Saturn from Aquarius

aspect from 7th, along with debilitated Rahu, giving predominating

malefic influence. Navamsa has rasi aspect of Venus, and aspect of

Rahu, half and half.

 

Michelle Pfeiffer has aspect on Mars on ascendant, and rasi dristi of

Jupiter/Rahu from LIBRA. This is important, like Saturn's aspect from

Libra on ascendant of Marilyn Monroe's ascendant. Navamsa ascendant

has Venus in Cancer, aspected only by Mars giving sex appeal. Lagna

lord goes into Pisces with Jupiter, Navamsa lagna lord into Libra

with Jupiter.

 

just some thoughts...

 

regards,

 

Alex J

 

 

gjlist, Christopher Kevill <ckevill@i...> wrote:

> Hello Pursottam, Karen, and All:

>

> Thanks for taking the "bait" here. The answer is chart 2 is

attractive, a

> radiant woman of Indian extraction who garners looks and smiles

wherever

> she goes. I didn't pick these charts because they would be

especially

> tricky (although I think they are), but because they strike me as

more

> typical of people we all know. No movie stars here. And yet, it's

hard to

> see where the attractiveness of chart 2 comes from. And the fact

that

> neither of you got it, (and I still can't clearly see it!) suggests

to me

> that the staid, familiar ideas of attractiveness (aspects to lagna

and

> lagnesh) don't really cover the topic properly.

>

> She has Taurus lagna with Venus in Cancer with Mars. Not good

presumably.

> Jupiter is in lagna. Moon isn't doing anything in Virgo. In

navamsha,

> 29Gem rises. This presents the possibility that she might Cancer

rising,

> which although that would place Mercury and Mars in lagna and

Jupiter

> aspecting it (straining boundaries of credulity here), at least

that would

> have Cancer asc ruler Moon conjunct Venus in Virgo. Not much, but

something.

>

> But here'a an idea that just struck me. Extrapolating from Robert's

> observation that beauty is often found in Venus in Capricorn

charts --

> perhaps due to the fact that Venus's moolatirkona sign Libra is 10

houses

> from Capricorn -- why not look at the position of the 10th house

from Venus

> in all charts? Here it seems to fit: 10th from Venus in Cancer is

Aries

> and its ruler, Mars, is conjunct Venus in the 1st. That conforms

to the

> same karakamsha principle that I believe is implicit in Robert's

> observation. For beauty to be manifest to the world, there must be

a

> connection between the 10th house of public recognition and Venus,

when

> Venus is used as lagna. All comments welcome here as always.

>

> Now besides trying to find a way to explain why chart 2 is of an

attractive

> person, we also need to explain why charts 1 and 3 are not.

(that's a lot

> of explaining to do!) I'll comment on Pursottam's answers below,

and since

> Karen's was so lengthy, I will post a separate response to her.

>

> Chart 1 belongs to a guy I know who is the quintessential computer

geek

> (apologies to Das!) He is tall and thin with a pale and almost

unhealthy

> complexion. Perhaps the Moon makes him pale.

>

> >

> >1. Mercury, the second and fifth Lord sits extremely close to the

Lagna

> >degree, retrograde.

> >

> >2. There is an aspect from the Moon, which though debilitated, is

just past

> >being full, and so may cause benefits in aspecting his exaltation

sign.

> >

> >3. The Moon itself receives a very tight beneficial aspect from

Jupiter, who

> >also happens to rule the eighth, another house responsible for

sexual

> >attractiveness.

>

> This is definitely wide of the mark. He is a workoholic who I

believe

> sublimates his unfulfilled sexual desires in work. He is single at

37

> years of age and is almost never involved with a girlfriend. In

fact, I

> wouldnt be surprised if he were a virgin although I don't know him

well

> enough to ask.

>

> >

> >4. The Lagna Lord Venus is exalted within one degree of maximum

exaltation

> >in the eleventh, and conjoins the eighth Lord Jupiter who is in

his own

> >house.

>

> Right, this is a flashing neon light in the chart and yet is does

nothing

> for his attractiveness as far as I can see. And what are we to

make of

> Robert's Saturn-Venus connection giving beauty? His Venus is

aspected very

> closely by Saturn in its own sign. As for my speculative point,

the 10th

> from Venus is Sagittarius which is occupied by Ketu, a malefic. So

that

> might be in keeping with the principle, however, 10L Jupiter is

conjunct

> Venus in Pisces so one would have expected more from this

consolation

> prize. Perhaps the fact that Venus rules bad houses for Pisces

lagnas and

> is an enemy of Jupiter overrules the simple 1-10 connection. If

that were

> the case, then there would have to be other factors that would

account for

> the attractiveness of Venus in Pisces natives -- or are we

suggesting that

> they will always tend to be plain?

>

> Chris