Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Namaste, The two texts where the chara karakas are mentioned primarily are Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra, and Jaimini Sutram. In both of these 8 karakas are listed in order. The karakamsa chart becomes important for spiritual purposes, and the necessity of using Rahu in the scheme can be seen through analyzing the charts of a few prominent spiritual masters. Take Ramakrishna's chart. With Mars as atmakarak (7 karaka scheme)the chart is very weak. All of the natural benefics go into the duhstanas, and the natural malefics sit in the kendras, destroying the strength of the chart. The ascendant is under heavy affliction from a debilitated Mars conjunct Ketu. The 9th lord from Karakamsa Jupiter, which is very important in this chart, and indicates the religion and spiritual pursuits goes into the 8th house with Saturn and Mercury in Aquarius. In this situation Jupiter is overpowered by the 8th lord Saturn situated in moolatrikona with his friend, and enemy of Jupiter, Mercury. The 9th lord in this case suffers destruction. It is very important to note that in this scheme Rahu becomes a malefic, and as he is in an adjacent house, most significantly the 12th house from these planets, he greatly damages them, especially as he is the sole planet in the 2nd/12th from them. The 5th and 2nd houses which are looked at for aptitudes in the various sciences are destroyed, the lord of the 2nd going into the 6th, and the lord of the 5th suffers affliction. If the 8 charakaraka scheme is used including Rahu as Atmakaraka, we get a completely different picture. At first glance we can see that this chart is extremely powerful, as the ascendant is under Bheri yoga, as it is occupied, with planets in the 12th, 2nd and 7th. This is one of the most important rajayogas as this combination greatly strengthens both the house it surrounds, and the planets within the house. In this case both Karakamsa ascendant and Atmakaraka are endowed with a very rare strength. The motion of the 3 planets in the second from Karakamsa are retrograde. On the other side Sun is approaching direct. In this case they are all approaching the atmakaraka and karakamsa; they do this in order to provide support for him, thereby making this ascendant unequaled in strength. This is a very holy combination and shows the great strength of his soul and the support of those around him. The ascendant lord combines with both the 9th and 12th lord in the 2nd house. This shows the spiritual inclinations of this great soul, especially as the combination of the planets Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury with such ownership denotes a spiritual master. The second house from Karakamsa along with the 5th is looked at for aptitudes in various sciences, or the abilities of the native. In this case it shows the spiritual knowledge very clearly. And that he was destined to convey the spiritual message to millions so clearly is shown through the strength of the 2nd house. Yogakarka Venus goes into the 9th house, as the 10th lord he indicates that his karma is being directed towards god, and the form of God, Venus in this case indicating the divine mother. The 12th from Karakamsa indicates the istadevata. Here the 12th lord is in Aquarius with Saturn strongest in this sign. This shows that the istadevata is Kali, who Saturn indicates. Moon, the divine mother aspects this combination. Srila Prabhupada's Karakamsa chart can be looked at in a similar light. Using the 7 karaka scheme, with Moon as Atmakarak, we again get malefics in the quadrants, and 4 planets going into the 8th house, 2 of them natural benefics. Jupiter is again destroyed forming an Asura yoga, which makes him into an immoral demon. >From Rahu, which is the Atmakarka in the 8 karaka scheme, we see these 4 planets going into the 7th house making a Pravrajya yoga, and Moon is in the 12th in Virgo indicating the istadevata being Krishna. Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury combination is the same spiritual one in Ramakrishna's chart, here joined by mokshakarak Ketu. This only intensifies the combination, as does the combination of the trine lords. In this way you can see through analysis of Karakamsa that Rahu is a necessity as Atmakara. Below are the charts of Ramakrishna and Srila Prabhupada. Best Regards, Alex J RAMAKRISHNA Date of Birth: February 18, 1836 Time of Birth: 6:50:24 am Time Zone of Birth: 5:50 East of GMT Longitude of Birth: 77 E 25 Latitude of Birth: 12 N 33 Planet Position Pada CharaK Resi OwnTara InTara Rasi Nava Naks Sub Ascdt 2 Aq 37 Dhanishtha 3 - - - Mitra Sa Ve Ma Ke Sun 6 Aq 54 Satabhisham 1 DK 71% Sadhana P.Mitra Sa Ju Rh Rh Moon 22 Aq 20 Poo.Bhaa. 1 AmK 31% Naidhana Janma Sa Ma Ju Sa Mars 22 Cp 15 Sravanam 4 BK 31% Mitra Naidhana Sa Mo Mo Ve Mercury ® 15 Aq 07 Satabhisham 3 MK 17% Vipat P.Mitra Sa Sa Rh Ke Jupiter ® 14 Ge 24 Aardra 3 PiK 21% Janma P.Mitra Me Sa Rh Me Venus 9 Pi 05 U.Bhaa. 2 GK 57% Pratyak Sampat Ju Me Sa Ve Saturn ® 13 Li 34 Swathi 3 PK 27% Sampat P.Mitra Ve Sa Rh Me Rahu 2 Ta 53 Krittika 2 AK 98% P.Mitra Sadhana Ve Sa Su Ju Ketu 2 Sc 53 Visakha 4 - 98% Kshema Janma Ma Mo Ju Rh +----------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | Ven | | Rah | JupR | | | | | | | | | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | Asc BL | | | | | | | | Sun | | | | | | | | MerR Moo | | | |-------------| R A S I |-------------| | GL | | | | | | | | Mar | | | | | | | | HL | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | SatR | | | | | | | | | Ket | Glk | | | | | | | | | | Mnd | | +----------------------+ +----------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | Moo | Mnd | | | | | | | | | | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | Ket | | JupR SatR | | | | | | GL | | Glk MerR | | | | | | Mar | |-------------| N A V A M S A |-------------| | | | | | | | | | Rah | | | | | | | | | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | | | | | | Asc | HL | | Sun | | | | | | | BL | Ven | | | | | | +----------------------+ Vimsottari Dasa: Jupi 1836-02-18 Merc 1837-12-28 Ketu 1840-04-04 Venu 1841-03-11 Sun 1843-11-09 Moon 1844-08-28 Mars 1845-12-28 Rahu 1846-12-04 Satu 1849-04-28 Merc 1852-05-01 Ketu 1855-01-09 Venu 1856-02-18 Sun 1859-04-19 Moon 1860-03-31 Mars 1861-10-31 Rahu 1862-12-10 Jupi 1865-10-15 Merc 1868-04-28 Ketu 1870-09-24 Venu 1871-09-22 Sun 1874-07-22 Moon 1875-05-29 Mars 1876-10-27 Rahu 1877-10-25 Jupi 1880-05-13 Satu 1882-08-19 Ketu 1885-04-28 Venu 1885-09-24 Sun 1886-11-24 Moon 1887-04-01 Mars 1887-10-31 Rahu 1888-03-28 Jupi 1889-04-16 Satu 1890-03-23 Merc 1891-05-01 Venu 1892-04-28 Sun 1895-08-28 Moon 1896-08-27 Mars 1898-04-28 Rahu 1899-06-28 Jupi 1902-06-29 Satu 1905-02-27 Merc 1908-04-28 Ketu 1911-02-27 Sun 1912-04-28 Moon 1912-08-16 Mars 1913-02-15 Rahu 1913-06-22 Jupi 1914-05-17 Satu 1915-03-05 Merc 1916-02-15 Ketu 1916-12-22 Venu 1917-04-29 Moon 1918-04-29 Mars 1919-02-27 Rahu 1919-09-28 Jupi 1921-03-29 Satu 1922-07-29 Merc 1924-02-27 Ketu 1925-07-29 Venu 1926-02-27 Sun 1927-10-29 Mars 1928-04-28 Rahu 1928-09-24 Jupi 1929-10-13 Satu 1930-09-19 Merc 1931-10-29 Ketu 1932-10-25 Venu 1933-03-23 Sun 1934-05-23 Moon 1934-09-28 Rahu 1935-04-29 Jupi 1938-01-09 Satu 1940-06-04 Merc 1943-04-11 Ketu 1945-10-28 Venu 1946-11-16 Sun 1949-11-15 Moon 1950-10-10 Mars 1952-04-10 SRILA PRABHUPADA Date of Birth: September 1, 1896 Time of Birth: 1:30:24 pm Time Zone of Birth: 5:50 East of GMT Longitude of Birth: 88 E 22 Latitude of Birth: 22 N 32 Planet Position Pada CharaK Resi OwnTara InTara Rasi Nava Naks Sub Ascdt 2 Sg 11 Moola 1 - - - Sadhana Ju Ma Ke Ve Sun 16 Le 54 Poo.Pha. 2 MK 2% Mitra Naidhana Su Me Ve Mo Moon 26 Ta 49 Mrigasira 2 AmK 64% P.Mitra Janma Ve Me Ma Ju Mars 16 Ta 52 Rohini 3 PiK 2% Janma P.Mitra Ve Me Mo Sa Mercury 10 Vi 58 Hastha 1 PK 41% Pratyak P.Mitra Me Ma Mo Mo Jupiter 1 Le 59 Makha 1 GK 99% Vipat Sadhana Su Ma Ke Ve Venus 1 Vi 39 U.Pha. 2 DK 97% Naidhana Mitra Me Sa Su Ju Saturn 21 Li 46 Visakha 1 BK 31% Kshema Vipat Ve Ma Ju Sa Rahu 1 Aq 10 Dhanishtha 3 AK 93% Sampat Janma Sa Ve Ma Me Ketu 1 Le 10 Makha 1 - 93% Sadhana Sadhana Su Ma Ke Ve +----------------------+ | | | | | | | GL | Mar | | | | | | | | | HL | Moo | | | | | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | | | | | | | Rah | | | | | | | | | | | |-------------| R A S I |-------------| | | | Ket Jup | | | | | | | | Glk | | | | | | | | Sun Mnd | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | | | | Asc | | | Ven | | | | Sat | | | BL | | | Mer | | | | | | +----------------------+ +----------------------+ | | Ket Jup | | | | | | | | | | Mer | GL | Mar | | | | | | | | Sat Asc | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | | | | | | | | | HL | | | | | | | | | |-------------| N A V A M S A |-------------| | | | | | | | Glk | | Ven | | | | | | BL | | | | | |-------------|---------------------------|-------------| | | | | | | | | | Moo | | | Mnd | Rah | | | | | | Sun | | | | | | +----------------------+ Vimsottari Dasa: Mars 1896-09-01 Satu 1897-03-23 Merc 1898-05-02 Ketu 1899-04-29 Venu 1899-09-25 Sun 1900-11-25 Moon 1901-04-02 Rahu 1901-11-01 Jupi 1904-07-14 Satu 1906-12-08 Merc 1909-10-14 Ketu 1912-05-02 Venu 1913-05-21 Sun 1916-05-20 Moon 1917-04-14 Mars 1918-10-14 Jupi 1919-11-01 Satu 1921-12-20 Merc 1924-07-02 Ketu 1926-10-08 Venu 1927-09-14 Sun 1930-05-15 Moon 1931-03-03 Mars 1932-07-02 Rahu 1933-06-08 Satu 1935-11-01 Merc 1938-11-04 Ketu 1941-07-14 Venu 1942-08-23 Sun 1945-10-23 Moon 1946-10-05 Mars 1948-05-05 Rahu 1949-06-14 Jupi 1952-04-20 Merc 1954-11-01 Ketu 1957-03-30 Venu 1958-03-27 Sun 1961-01-25 Moon 1961-12-01 Mars 1963-05-03 Rahu 1964-04-29 Jupi 1966-11-16 Satu 1969-02-21 Ketu 1971-11-01 Venu 1972-03-29 Sun 1973-05-29 Moon 1973-10-04 Mars 1974-05-05 Rahu 1974-10-01 Jupi 1975-10-20 Satu 1976-09-25 Merc 1977-11-04 Venu 1978-11-01 Sun 1982-03-02 Moon 1983-03-02 Mars 1984-10-31 Rahu 1985-12-31 Jupi 1988-12-31 Satu 1991-09-01 Merc 1994-11-01 Ketu 1997-09-01 Sun 1998-11-01 Moon 1999-02-18 Mars 1999-08-20 Rahu 1999-12-26 Jupi 2000-11-18 Satu 2001-09-07 Merc 2002-08-20 Ketu 2003-06-26 Venu 2003-11-01 Moon 2004-10-31 Mars 2005-08-31 Rahu 2006-04-02 Jupi 2007-10-01 Satu 2009-01-30 Merc 2010-09-01 Ketu 2012-01-31 Venu 2012-08-31 Sun 2014-05-02 gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote: > Thanks to Pursottam et al for replies regarding nodes status! > > But basically it all boils down to "how you interpret" the scriptures. To > say that certain passages "allude" to this and that really leaves the reader > free to come to his/her own conclusion. Then to make that conclusion (of the > reader) a hard and fast rule is a bit misleading, I think. > > The posts listing all those who have Rahu as AtmaKaraka is again extremely > misleading as it (once again) pre-supposes that this is correct. > > Regards > Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Namaste Wendy, It is true I take Sagittarius as his ascendant, so we must agree to disagree ;-) And I won't touch this as better people than me have. However this doesn't affect the Karakamsa ascendant, which in his case is Libra. So my comments on this are still valid, despite the dispute about the correct Rasi ascendant. Warm Regards, Alex J gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote: > Alex wrote: > =========== > > Srila Prabhupada's Karakamsa chart can be looked at in a similar > light. Using the 7 karaka scheme, with Moon as Atmakarak, we again > get malefics in the quadrants, and 4 planets going into the 8th > house, 2 of them natural benefics. Jupiter is again destroyed forming > an Asura yoga, which makes him into an immoral demon. > > From Rahu, which is the Atmakarka in the 8 karaka scheme, we see > these 4 planets going into the 7th house making a Pravrajya yoga, and > Moon is in the 12th in Virgo indicating the istadevata being Krishna. > > Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury combination is the same spiritual one in > Ramakrishna's chart, here joined by mokshakarak Ketu. This only > intensifies the combination, as does the combination of the trine > lords. > > In this way you can see through analysis of Karakamsa that Rahu is a > necessity as Atmakara. > =========================== > > Hello Alex, > > As I'm sure you're aware there is dispute amongst leading jyotishis as to > the correct Lagna for Prabhupada. I personally agree with those who consider > Capricorn (rather than Sagittarius) to be the correct one. > > So (once again) I think we must agree to disagree. I'll take a look at the > other charts when time permits. > > Regards > Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Namate Wendy, Of course you are correct as well, the position of Atmakaraka in the Rasi chart is of utmost significance. Parasara states that all of the other karakas will be rendered weak if the atmakaraka is also weak. And that if the Atmakaraka is strong, then the bad effects in life will be minimized. So placement in Rasi forms the basis of the souls strength in this life. regards, Alex J gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote: > Yes of course you are right Alex, > > But the position of AtmaKaraka in Rasi is significant.... > > Wendy > ================ > > Namaste Wendy, > > It is true I take Sagittarius as his ascendant, so we must agree to > disagree ;-) And I won't touch this as better people than me have. > > However this doesn't affect the Karakamsa ascendant, which in his > case is Libra. So my comments on this are still valid, despite the > dispute about the correct Rasi ascendant. > > Warm Regards, > > Alex J > > gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote: > > Alex wrote: > > =========== > > > > Srila Prabhupada's Karakamsa chart can be looked at in a similar > > light. Using the 7 karaka scheme, with Moon as Atmakarak, we again > > get malefics in the quadrants, and 4 planets going into the 8th > > house, 2 of them natural benefics. Jupiter is again destroyed > forming > > an Asura yoga, which makes him into an immoral demon. > > > > From Rahu, which is the Atmakarka in the 8 karaka scheme, we see > > these 4 planets going into the 7th house making a Pravrajya yoga, > and > > Moon is in the 12th in Virgo indicating the istadevata being > Krishna. > > > > Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury combination is the same spiritual one in > > Ramakrishna's chart, here joined by mokshakarak Ketu. This only > > intensifies the combination, as does the combination of the trine > > lords. > > > > In this way you can see through analysis of Karakamsa that Rahu is a > > necessity as Atmakara. > > =========================== > > > > Hello Alex, > > > > As I'm sure you're aware there is dispute amongst leading jyotishis > as to > > the correct Lagna for Prabhupada. I personally agree with those who > consider > > Capricorn (rather than Sagittarius) to be the correct one. > > > > So (once again) I think we must agree to disagree. I'll take a look > at the > > other charts when time permits. > > > > Regards > > Wendy > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Hello Lovely, Yes of course, the rasi chart forms the basis of the strength for all of the other charts. The karakamsha is much more subtle in noticed influence. regards, Alex J gjlist, lovelymanoj@1... wrote: > > Yes of course you are right Alex, > > > > But the position of AtmaKaraka in Rasi is significant.... > > > > Wendy > > Right Wendy, I also want to add here, had there been no ascendant, then would there be an aruda lagna. Its dependent on the birth ascendant only and therefore, birth ascendant is the one, which is supreme. > > Lovely > > > ____ > 123India.com - India's Premier Portal > Get your Free Email Account at http://www.123india.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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