Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and independent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the world of others. Love, Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 With some corrections... sorry for any inconvenience casued..... Uthayan, Arun Monday, April 09, 2001 11:42 AM 'gjlist' RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and interdependent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the worlds of others. Love, Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Hi Arun, my opinion exactly, thanks for writing this. Best wishes and greetings to all, Liliana >"Uthayan, Arun" <arun.uthayan >gjlist >"'gjlist'" <gjlist> >RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality >Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:42:27 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [64.211.240.238] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBC9B226C0091D821EEAB40D3F0EE330E319; Mon Apr 09 08:44:34 2001 >Received: from [10.1.4.52] by mu. with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2001 >15:43:14 -0000 >Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 15:43:13 -0000 >Received: (qmail 13537 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 15:43:08 -0000 >Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 >15:43:08 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO tons0043.ca.cibcwm.com) (207.61.221.19) by >mta2 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 15:43:07 -0000 >Received: by tons0043.ca.cibcwm.com with Internet Mail Service >(5.5.2650.21) id <H9XYBR45>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:43:06 -0400 >From sentto-490438-4114-986830994-astrolila Mon Apr 09 08:45:55 2001 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-490438-4114-986830994-astrolila=hotmail.com (AT) returns (DOT) >X-Sender: Arun.Uthayan >X-Apparently-gjlist >Message-ID: <030A10F84BBAD411AC0500508BAD87DC608B2E@TONS0034> >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >Mailing-List: list gjlist; contact >gjlist-owner >Delivered-mailing list gjlist >Precedence: bulk >List-Un: <gjlist> > > >I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has >given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free >will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be >able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope >that >"free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should >people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. > >The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these >two issues: > >Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every >incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, >some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each >student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of >each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being >learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will >fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other >times. > >The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels >of >students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may >wonder, >how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms >exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The >Teacher >is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, >at the same time. > >Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? >This >practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since >birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume >that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since >childhood. >This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health >indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, >according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will >use >the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of >an individual, at a particular point in time. > >The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each >time >they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the >consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting >(horary), >shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with >the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's >past, present and "probable" future. > >Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free >will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) >extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and >independent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of >our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the world >of others. > >Love, >Arun > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 dear arun~ interesting... has anyone tried this theory out?? "The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. this one would be the first in line! peace, aria "Uthayan, Arun" <arun.uthayan gjlist "'gjlist'" <gjlist> RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:42:27 -0400 I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and independent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the world of others. Love, Arun gjlist- Your use of is subject to _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Yes, I try it daily. Let us suppose that a person has denial for the birth of children.If the denying planets are malefic, no alternative. If a little benefic effect is there. Check out the things horary. Perform remedy measures. I prefer reciting of Mantra or donations by the sufferer himself; no middleman in God and him; Perform Homa yagna etc. a priest may help here. Check out by Horary after the remedial Measures. If enhancing effects are there , your measures had worked. Or they are added to your fixed deposit, with no fruit as yet. With Regards, Inder Jit Sahni - aria - gjlist Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:08 AM RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality dear arun~ interesting... has anyone tried this theory out?? "The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. this one would be the first in line! peace, aria "Uthayan, Arun" <arun.uthayan gjlist "'gjlist'" <gjlist> RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:42:27 -0400 I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and independent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the world of others. Love, Arun gjlist- Your use of is subject to _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Dear Arun, I have to thank you for the post and a very important question you raised: ".....This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood..." Right to the point- what would be the purpose of any experience, maturity, etc... if we take a birth chart assuming that's "fixed", "engraved in stone"..How can one possibly not consider the fact that previous experience DID change the person- and HOW! Whether we think that there is a free will, or not at all. That's a fact of life- and astrology is about life, isn't it? Thanks, Anna - Uthayan, Arun 'gjlist' Monday, April 09, 2001 4:06 PM RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality With some corrections... sorry for any inconvenience casued..... Uthayan, Arun Monday, April 09, 2001 11:42 AM 'gjlist' RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and interdependent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the worlds of others. Love, Arun gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 Anna, Liliana, Aria, Das and Other List members, Yes, Astrology is about Life and Growth...... Free Will, really, concerns and governs Effort. But not the fruits of the same Effort (I don't thins any Krishna Bhakta will disagree!) - governed by Laws of Karma. All of us can, recognize the exercise of our Free Will, when our minds are torn between the "Lower" and the "Higher", and a conscious and forcible choice is made by us to follow the "Higher" instinct. Free Will is the faculty that takes us upwards or homewards. That is an instinct, every soul is born with. It doesn't mean that Free Will always brings pleasant experiences and is exercised in a positive manner by everyone. Just as the Laws of Karma work towards taking us towards the Goal, Free Will too if and when exercised, gives us the necessary experience to Grow. In my view, both of them work simultaneously and complement each other. The astrologer's role is to find the difference and guide others. Love, Arun Anna [anmar] Tuesday, April 10, 2001 11:46 PM gjlist Re: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality Dear Arun, I have to thank you for the post and a very important question you raised: ".....This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood..." Right to the point- what would be the purpose of any experience, maturity, etc... if we take a birth chart assuming that's "fixed", "engraved in stone"..How can one possibly not consider the fact that previous experience DID change the person- and HOW! Whether we think that there is a free will, or not at all. That's a fact of life- and astrology is about life, isn't it? Thanks, Anna - Uthayan, Arun 'gjlist' Monday, April 09, 2001 4:06 PM RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality With some corrections... sorry for any inconvenience casued..... Uthayan, Arun Monday, April 09, 2001 11:42 AM 'gjlist' RE: [gjlist] Better Freeing Reality I think trying to find answers to all our questions using Natal Chart has given rise to our inability to bridge the concepts of "fatalism" and "free will". On the one hand, we astrologers want to believe in "fatalism" to be able to prove that "Astrology" is infallible. At the same time, we hope that "free will" exists, to be able change "Destiny". Otherwise, why should people look for remedies from astrologers to avert disasters. The following assumptions have helped me to some extent to reconcile these two issues: Every being is on a course of learning, spanning many births. Every incarnation is a semester. There will be many subjects to learn; some easy, some difficult. Difficult ones are not punishments. The progress of each student in the class is continuous throughout the semester. The progress of each student may be either slow or fast, depending on the subjects being learnt and each one's aptitude. The speed in mastering the lessons will fluctuate among students. Some will be faster sometimes and slower at other times. The world is a mixed classroom, where the Teacher is teaching many levels of students in the same room. People unfamiliar with such a notion, may wonder, how the Teacher is able to teach. But, it is a fact that such classrooms exist. The younger students don't really hold up the older ones. The Teacher is capable of keeping all the students busy, learning at their own levels, at the same time. Why do we astrologers think that the Natal Charts have all the answers? This practice, by default, assumes, a person (or entity), has not changed since birth. If each incarnation is for learning (or progress), how can we assume that "no progress (or change)" has taken place in a person, since childhood. This practice is like determining the health of someone, using the health indicators at birth. Health indicators of any person continuously change, according to the lifestyle, habits and environment. A better doctor will use the indicators of the past (history) and present to determine the health of an individual, at a particular point in time. The best Ayurvedic (Vedic?) doctors, check the pulse of a patient, each time they consult. Why do we astrologers, don't check the pulse (Nadi) of the consultee, each time. Ideally, the chart at the time of consulting (horary), shoul reveal the progress (change) of a person since birth. This along with the Natal Chart will provide a clear picture in understanding a person's past, present and "probable" future. Changes in (and Progress of) all individuals take place, Here and Now. Free will is at work, Big time, (but may be limited by our past to some (?) extent), whether we want it or not. All our lives may be interconnected and interdependent. But, progress of each one is separate and independent. Each of our world exists independent (though may seem interdependent) of the worlds of others. Love, Arun gjlist- Your use of is subject to gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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