Rick/ lakshmi/us

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

may I share my thoughts with you?

 

The recent demise of my sister-in law, Lakshmi, has naturally set me in a mood

of "thinking over". Hers was a life of trial. Money she had enough, though not

rich, but what else? A victim of my father´s tyranny, early death of her

husband - my brother - and loss of ALL her three children, all brilliant and

highly talented boys! Periods of schizophrenic attacks.

 

She was a sscholar, in english and sanskrit. She literalyy ate up books! Her

intonaton of the sanskrit, be it lterature or prayer, was wonderful - her

angelic voice, the perfection of diction and emphasis was a joy!

 

Yet, during her last days and hours, she was "afraid"! She hardly spoke about

what she feared, but I can re-construct from her past life. She had apparently

not thought deeper about what she had read!

 

She, who hard hardly ever "sinned", was afraid of "karma"! From a totally false

understanding of circumstances: her son vanished one day, all of a sudden. He

had been in love with a girl, who was not of our caste. The mother had expressed

her disapproval, and for nearly 30 years believed that her son had left her

because of that! Actually he had taken his life because the girl had refused to

marry him. He was modern enough to have opposed the wishes of his mother and

married the girl, whether the mother apoproved or not.

 

But this feeling of guilt haunted my sister-in - law for years, till her last

day. Some of what I say is info. from channelling mediums. It arose from a false

projection: "My son will not disobey me, but has left me because he could not

obey me!"

 

Westerners cannot perhaps understand this situation as was in India a few

decades ago. Today things are different, but only in the cities.

 

But the point is something else.

 

All of you are religious, read the holy books and listen to discourses. Please

do not do this as "paaraayanam". Repeating or hearing holy words without

insight, "viveka" is of little use.

 

Ask questions, debate with yourself!

 

You have celebrated Ramanavami, but have you thought of the message of the

Ramayana? Rama himself was a weak and rather boring hero! It was Sita, Lakshmana

and his wife, Bharatha, Hanuman etc. who lived up to the ideals. Rama himself

killed Vali from the back, gave the excuse that human laws did not apply to

beasts - and yet totally relied and took the help of the beasts Sugriva and

Hanuman! To please a slanderer he banished his wife, interested only in keeping

his "nameyasas" clean! The entire misery started because Rama was an ill-bred

brat who ill-treated a crippled woman and made fun of her! Had he shown

affection and UNDERSTANDING, the Ramayana would not have taken place at all!

 

Rama was God`s self-sacrifice, a kind of crucifixion. He had very little

happiness in life, little joy in the wealth he had inherited, hardly any family

life, not even the pleasure of seeing his children growing up! One may ask.

"What did he live for?"...

 

Only to provoke a set of circumstances in which others - his created children -

could test themselves and qualify! He gave a number of souls the opportunity to

help him and thus learn the lesson of love. Rama was God, but in a peculiar

form, the form of the despairing MAN. Ecce Homo, as they say in Latin. And

christ was the same. Rama despaired, Christ did not. These are different stages

of human development. Rama subjected himself to tradition, Christ broke away

from it. The examples set are for the needs of the times, not for all eternity.

But when we read these stories, we must learn to apply the principles to our

times.

 

And he himself showed us what mistakes we should not make!!!!

 

 

scriptures or not, keep thinking. Praying to this deity or breaking

coconuts does not help us in the long run. The deities are there, but they only

rule over limited areas. In the Gita Krishna says, "If you pray to Indra, you

will attain his world. If you pray to me, you will come to me!"

 

A great english mystic wrote:

"Why should I go to the servant,

when the way to the master is free?"

 

Many think that singing bhajans and praising God is a way to moksha. Is it?

 

If all the ants in this world praised you, would you be flattered? The praise

that pleases must come from above, not below, or at least from an equal! The

time we spend praying only keeps us from sinning during that time!

 

The only true prayer is "seva", as Sai Baba says. If we serve our

fellow-creatures, we relieve HIM of a part of his burden. This seva can be

directed at ourselves: the more we try to help ourself the less HE has to do for

us!

 

I deaöling with jyothish we are always debating about fate and free-will. If

what we experience is pre-destined, what we do is also pre-destined! To be

"punished" for doing what we could not help doing is the height of injustice!

 

No!

"If the red slayer thinks he slays.

or the slain think he is slain,

they no not my immutable ways,

for I pass, turn, and pass again!"

 

"I am the sacrificer, the sacrifice and that which is offered in sacrifice!"

 

 

We are all only parts of the Supreme Being, He commits all our good deeds and

our crimes. Maya makes us think we are the doers and sufferers. But all this is

only that we may learn. When we have learnt enough, we will be given our true

entities and freedom to act! We are in the transition stage from advaita into

dvaita, the goal!

 

Love

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Mani,

 

Very sorry to hear about it. One who has come to this mortal world has to go

one day. Our words can only offer some peace but cant belittle the pain one

suffers when some one dear moves on from mortal world to the higher realms.

 

Very sad to hear about Richard too.

 

May god grant them peace.

 

Om Tryam-bakam yaja-mahe sugandhim pushti vardha-nam

Urva-ruk-miv bandh-nan mrit-yor-murk-shiye ma-amritat

 

Manoj

 

 

>subra

>gjlist

>gjlist

>[gjlist] Rick/ lakshmi/us

>Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:53:44 +0200

>

>Dear Friends,

>

>may I share my thoughts with you?

>

>The recent demise of my sister-in law, Lakshmi, has naturally set me in a

>mood

>of "thinking over". Hers was a life of trial. Money she had enough, though

>not

>rich, but what else? A victim of my father´s tyranny, early death of her

>husband - my brother - and loss of ALL her three children, all brilliant

>and

>highly talented boys! Periods of schizophrenic attacks.

>

>She was a sscholar, in english and sanskrit. She literalyy ate up books!

>Her

>intonaton of the sanskrit, be it lterature or prayer, was wonderful - her

>angelic voice, the perfection of diction and emphasis was a joy!

>

>Yet, during her last days and hours, she was "afraid"! She hardly spoke

>about

>what she feared, but I can re-construct from her past life. She had

>apparently

>not thought deeper about what she had read!

>

>She, who hard hardly ever "sinned", was afraid of "karma"! From a totally

>false

>understanding of circumstances: her son vanished one day, all of a sudden.

>He

>had been in love with a girl, who was not of our caste. The mother had

>expressed

>her disapproval, and for nearly 30 years believed that her son had left her

>because of that! Actually he had taken his life because the girl had

>refused to

>marry him. He was modern enough to have opposed the wishes of his mother

>and

>married the girl, whether the mother apoproved or not.

>

>But this feeling of guilt haunted my sister-in - law for years, till her

>last

>day. Some of what I say is info. from channelling mediums. It arose from a

>false

>projection: "My son will not disobey me, but has left me because he could

>not

>obey me!"

>

>Westerners cannot perhaps understand this situation as was in India a few

>decades ago. Today things are different, but only in the cities.

>

>But the point is something else.

>

>All of you are religious, read the holy books and listen to discourses.

>Please

>do not do this as "paaraayanam". Repeating or hearing holy words without

>insight, "viveka" is of little use.

>

>Ask questions, debate with yourself!

>

>You have celebrated Ramanavami, but have you thought of the message of the

>Ramayana? Rama himself was a weak and rather boring hero! It was Sita,

>Lakshmana

>and his wife, Bharatha, Hanuman etc. who lived up to the ideals. Rama

>himself

>killed Vali from the back, gave the excuse that human laws did not apply to

>beasts - and yet totally relied and took the help of the beasts Sugriva and

>Hanuman! To please a slanderer he banished his wife, interested only in

>keeping

>his "nameyasas" clean! The entire misery started because Rama was an

>ill-bred

>brat who ill-treated a crippled woman and made fun of her! Had he shown

>affection and UNDERSTANDING, the Ramayana would not have taken place at

>all!

>

>Rama was God`s self-sacrifice, a kind of crucifixion. He had very little

>happiness in life, little joy in the wealth he had inherited, hardly any

>family

>life, not even the pleasure of seeing his children growing up! One may ask.

>"What did he live for?"...

>

>Only to provoke a set of circumstances in which others - his created

>children -

>could test themselves and qualify! He gave a number of souls the

>opportunity to

>help him and thus learn the lesson of love. Rama was God, but in a peculiar

>form, the form of the despairing MAN. Ecce Homo, as they say in Latin. And

>christ was the same. Rama despaired, Christ did not. These are different

>stages

>of human development. Rama subjected himself to tradition, Christ broke

>away

>from it. The examples set are for the needs of the times, not for all

>eternity.

>But when we read these stories, we must learn to apply the principles to

>our

>times.

>

>And he himself showed us what mistakes we should not make!!!!

>

>

>scriptures or not, keep thinking. Praying to this deity or breaking

>coconuts does not help us in the long run. The deities are there, but they

>only

>rule over limited areas. In the Gita Krishna says, "If you pray to Indra,

>you

>will attain his world. If you pray to me, you will come to me!"

>

>A great english mystic wrote:

>"Why should I go to the servant,

>when the way to the master is free?"

>

>Many think that singing bhajans and praising God is a way to moksha. Is it?

>

>If all the ants in this world praised you, would you be flattered? The

>praise

>that pleases must come from above, not below, or at least from an equal!

>The

>time we spend praying only keeps us from sinning during that time!

>

>The only true prayer is "seva", as Sai Baba says. If we serve our

>fellow-creatures, we relieve HIM of a part of his burden. This seva can be

>directed at ourselves: the more we try to help ourself the less HE has to

>do for

>us!

>

>I deaöling with jyothish we are always debating about fate and free-will.

>If

>what we experience is pre-destined, what we do is also pre-destined! To be

>"punished" for doing what we could not help doing is the height of

>injustice!

>

>No!

>"If the red slayer thinks he slays.

>or the slain think he is slain,

>they no not my immutable ways,

>for I pass, turn, and pass again!"

>

>"I am the sacrificer, the sacrifice and that which is offered in

>sacrifice!"

>

>

>We are all only parts of the Supreme Being, He commits all our good deeds

>and

>our crimes. Maya makes us think we are the doers and sufferers. But all

>this is

>only that we may learn. When we have learnt enough, we will be given our

>true

>entities and freedom to act! We are in the transition stage from advaita

>into

>dvaita, the goal!

>

>Love

>Mani

>

>

>

>

>gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Mani,

You are a brave, brilliant dear soul yourself--just for Lakshmi to be

aware of your understanding & compassion toward her counts for so much. You

are a rare man who can understand a woman's pain and express it where she has

our hearts going out to her too.

Also, don't think we don't notice how you take care of your son, when he

doesn't even have his mother--as a mother, that deeply hurts to hear --you

are truly a good man.

Sorry for the loss of your sister in law,

Robin

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Manoj Pathak wrote:

> Dear Mani,

>

> Very sorry to hear about it. .........

> Very sad to hear about Richard too.

>

> May god grant them peace.

>

> Om Tryam-bakam yaja-mahe sugandhim pushti vardha-nam

> Urva-ruk-miv bandh-nan mrit-yor-murk-shiye ma-amritat

 

Dear Manoj , Carol and others who sent me condolences,

 

Thank you all for your kindness!

 

The living and the departed always rest in peace if they put themselves into

God´s hands. I have lost many loved ones, but God has saved me from the sgony of

seeing them die. I have always been far away, have only heard about the demise.

In the case of my parents it was weeks later. It always happens when I sort of

plan to see them "soon2, say within some months. Now I´ll stop making such

plans!

 

These departures always tell me that the sorrow is felt by those left behind,

not by those who depart. There may be exceptions, when the departed soul is

unwilling to leave, haunts this world. But that too is often not any desire to

remain, but to find a peaceful conclusion to a quarrel etc. Once we tell the

soul that the matter is finished and only love remains, they depart finally.

 

The vedic rites for the funeral are so similar to the Egyptian and Greek

ceremonies. This knowledge is ancient and eternal. We dry our tears, try to

philososophize. Only time stops the pangs. Till then, you feel composed but

suddenly a memory makes the heart contract, a feeling of terrible loss sets in,

the tears flow. Let them flow! They are the true "water" we offer the dead in

the rites - our physical expression of love. This relieves us both emotionally

and physically, in that it gets rid of salt, reduces the tamasic in us.

 

namaste

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Mani -

 

My sympathies are with you on the loss of your sister-in-law. She sounded

like a very special lady and I know you must be missing her terribly. But she

left you beautiful memories to take her place and as long as you keep them

alive, she'll never be far away. . .

 

Donna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mani,

Death make us serious ; we tend to think towards religion; great thoughts comes

to our mind; but next moment we forget.

Let us not forget and the urge to find the truth remain.

God bless the departed souls and courage to all those who are missing them.

Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni