Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 >From Bhagavad-gita 17th chapter: 1. Arjuna said, O Krsna, what is the situation of one who does not follow the principles of scripture but who worships according to his own imagination? Is he in goodness, in passion or in ignorance? 2. The Supreme Lord said, according to the modes of nature acquired by the embodied soul, one's faith can be of three kinds--goodness, passion or ignorance. Now hear about these. 3. According to one's existence under the various modes of nature, one evolves a particular kind of faith. The living being is said to be of a particular faith according to the modes he has acquired. 4. Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods; those in the mode of passion worship the demons; and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits. 5-6. Those who undergo severe austerities and penances not recommended in the scriptures, performing them out of pride, egoism, lust and attachment, who are impelled by passion and who torture their bodily organs as well as the Supersoul dwelling within are to be known as demons. 7. Even food of which all partake is of three kinds, according to the three modes of material nature. The same is true of sacrifices, austerities and charity. Listen, and I shall tell you of the distinctions of these. 8-10. Foods in the mode of goodness increase the duration of life, purify one's existence and give strength, health, happiness and satisfaction. Such nourishing foods are sweet, juicy, fatty and palatable. Foods that are too bitter, too sour, salty, pungent, dry and hot, are liked by people in the modes of passion. Such foods cause pain, distress, and disease. Food cooked more than three hours before being eaten, which is tasteless, stale, putrid, decomposed and unclean, is food liked by people in the mode of ignorance. 11. Of sacrifices, that sacrifice performed according to duty and to scriptural rules, and with no expectation of reward, is of the nature of goodness. 12. But that sacrifice performed for some material end or benefit or preformed ostentatiously, out of pride, is of the nature of passion, O chief of the Bharatas. 13. And that sacrifice performed in defiance of scriptural injunctions, in which no spiritual food is distributed, no hymns are chanted and no remunerations are made to the priests, and which is faithless--that sacrifice is of the nature of ignorance. 14. The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother. Cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence are also austerities of the body. 15. Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully and beneficially and in avoiding speech that offends. One should also recite the Vedas regularly. 16. And serenity, simplicity, gravity, self-control and purity of thought are the austerities of the mind. 17. This threefold austerity, practiced by men whose aim is not to benefit themselves materially but to please the Supreme, is of the nature of goodness. 18. Those ostentatious penances and austerities which are performed in order to gain respect, honor and reverence are said to be in the mode of passion. They are neither stable nor permanent. 19. And those penances and austerities which are performed foolishly by means of obstinate self-torture, or to destroy or injure others, are said to be in the mode of ignorance. 20. That gift which is given out of duty, at the proper time and place, to a worthy person, and without expectation of return, is considered to be charity in the mode of goodness. 21. But charity performed with the expectation of some return, or with a desire for fruitive results, or in a grudging mood, is said to be charity in the mode of passion. 22. And charity performed at an improper place and time and given to unworthy persons without respect and with contempt is charity in the mode of ignorance. 23. From the beginning of creation, the three syllables--om tat sat--have been used to indicate the Supreme Absolute Truth [brahman]. They were uttered by brahmanas while chanting Vedic hymns and during sacrifices, for the satisfaction of the Supreme. 24. Thus the transcendentalists undertake sacrifices, charities, and penances, beginning always with om, to attain the Supreme. 25. One should perform sacrifice, penance and charity with the word tat. The purpose of such transcendental activities is to get free from the material entanglement. 26-7. The Absolute Truth is the objective of devotional sacrifice, and it is indicated by the word sat. These works of sacrifice, of penance and of charity, true to the absolute nature, are performed to please the Supreme Person, O son of Prtha. 28. But sacrifices, austerities and charities performed without faith in the Supreme are nonpermanent, O son of Prtha, regardless of whatever rites are performed. They are called asat and are useless both in this life and the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas wrote: Dear Raghu, I apologize for sort of monopolizing the list and writing non-jyothish stuff. Please bear with me. Saturn is once again approaching my Lagna - and you sun - and I feel physically weak, the desire to communicate is growing and keeps me alive. If jyothish is a tool for understanding life, other tools also belong in the tool-box - and that is my only excuse. Dear Dasanudas, Thanks for refreshing my memory of the Gita. It is not easy to understand the Gita: one is amazed by its beauty and loftiness, but also intrigued by many "contradictions" and has to make the best of them. >From Bhagavad-gita 17th chapter: > > > 5-6. Those who undergo severe austerities and penances not recommended in > the scriptures, performing them out of pride, egoism, lust and attachment, > who are impelled by passion and who torture their bodily organs as well as > the Supersoul dwelling within are to be known as demons. > > 14. The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme > Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and > mother. Cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence are also > austerities of the body. > 19. And those penances and austerities which are performed foolishly by > means of obstinate self-torture, or to destroy or injure others, are said to > be in the mode of ignorance. > 25. One should perform sacrifice, penance and charity with the word tat. > The purpose of such transcendental activities is to get free from the > material entanglemen Buddha said the same and practiced the "golden mean" of living mid-way between severe austerity and luxury. But of the rishis, Parvathi etc. who did "severe tapas"? Was what they did right or wrong? Penance is degraded at first but recommended later. Non-violence is praised, but the entire teaching was to convince Arjuna to kill his cousins because they cheated him of his rights - and insulted his wife. As far as the people were concerned it was a "palace revolution" and the reign of Duryodhana was considered to be excellent! So it was a matter of revenge mainly, although justice was involved. If my cousin or brother robs me of my inheritance, would it justify my killing him? Could I quote the gita to excuse myself morally? > 12. But that sacrifice performed for some material end or benefit or > preformed ostentatiously, out of pride, is of the nature of passion, O chief > of the Bharatas. > > Many jyothishis recommend performing sacrifices to overcome material problems like poverty or ill-health. How does one judge this? Even most of the great vedic sacrifices like aswamedha were performed for the material well-being of the people and the king. I don´t think your scholarship or my non-scholarship helps to understand what the Lord said. Did arjuna understand all of what was said? I think not! He "understood" ONLY after seeing the Cosmic Form of the Lord! We may debate till doomsday, but the Icomprehensible will remain a mystery! FOR HE IS INCOMREHENSIBLE TO HIMSELF! He knows all that is and was, but not how or why he exists and where! Everything he makes has a cause, a beginning and an end, but he himself has none! At least, with human understanding, we can never comprehend with him. Only admire and love. namaste Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Mani, You are seeing contradictions where there are none. Just like if you look at a printed picture with a microscope, you will see so many apparently conflicting dots of cyan, magenta, yellow and black. But if you step back and look from a normal distance, you see the whole picture. All the answers to all your doubts are in the sastra, but you have to study patiently with faith until you come across them. The best lesson for all of us is in the first sloka of the chapter I quoted: "Arjuna said, O Krsna, what is the situation of one who does not follow the principles of scripture but who worships according to his own imagination?" When we have a question we should take shelter of the sastra, not our own limited intelligence. I'm going to close on this subject now, because we have been going around and around with no real resolution or progress. Chronic doubt causes an infinite regression of speculation from which there is no escape. "A faithful man who is absorbed in transcendental knowledge and who subdues his senses quickly attains the supreme spiritual peace. But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures do not attain God consciousness. For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next." [Gita 4.39-40] To restate the obvious one more time, the scriptures deal with a higher level of truth. We can't understand them by our own power, so we need the light of sastra focused through the pure devotee. The symptoms of the pure devotee are also given in the Gita. Check the end of the 2nd chapter. Everything is there in sastra if we have faith, patience and the desire to see. If we still have questions after reading the Gita carefully it means we have not heard properly and are taking shelter of our limited intellect to provide answers. There is no remedy to this condition except getting kicked around the universe by the reactions of maya until we get tired of trying to do it our way, and surrender. Good luck. Dasanudas , Harmony School of Conscious Art (Miami) International Conscious Art Gallery <http://www.consciousart.org/> Vedic Astrologer • Writer • Musician <http://www.harinam-arts.org/> Free Vedic Horoscope offer <http://www.consciousart.org/toplevel/offer.htm> Listen to some of my tunes! <http://www.mp3.com/DavidBruceHughes/> | | subra [subra] | Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:55 PM | gjlist | Re: [gjlist] Tamasic foods - the sauce | | | Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas wrote: | | Dear Raghu, | | I apologize for sort of monopolizing the list and writing | non-jyothish stuff. | Please bear with me. Saturn is once again approaching my Lagna - | and you sun - | and I feel physically weak, the desire to communicate is growing | and keeps me | alive. If jyothish is a tool for understanding life, other tools | also belong in | the tool-box - and that is my only excuse. | | | Dear Dasanudas, | | Thanks for refreshing my memory of the Gita. It is not easy to | understand the | Gita: one is amazed by its beauty and loftiness, but also | intrigued by many | "contradictions" and has to make the best of them. | | >From Bhagavad-gita 17th chapter: | > | > | > 5-6. Those who undergo severe austerities and penances not | recommended in | > the scriptures, performing them out of pride, egoism, lust and | attachment, | > who are impelled by passion and who torture their bodily | organs as well as | > the Supersoul dwelling within are to be known as demons. | > | > 14. The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme | > Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master, and superiors like | the father and | > mother. Cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence are also | > austerities of the body. | | > 19. And those penances and austerities which are performed | foolishly by | > means of obstinate self-torture, or to destroy or injure | others, are said to | > be in the mode of ignorance. | > 25. One should perform sacrifice, penance and charity with | the word tat. | > The purpose of such transcendental activities is to get free from the | > material entanglemen | | Buddha said the same and practiced the "golden mean" of living | mid-way between | severe austerity and luxury. But of the rishis, Parvathi etc. | who did "severe | tapas"? Was what they did right or wrong? Penance is degraded | at first but | recommended later. | | Non-violence is praised, but the entire teaching was to convince | Arjuna to kill | his cousins because they cheated him of his rights - and | insulted his wife. As | far as the people were concerned it was a "palace revolution" | and the reign of | Duryodhana was considered to be excellent! So it was a matter of | revenge mainly, | although justice was involved. | | If my cousin or brother robs me of my inheritance, would it | justify my killing | him? Could I quote the gita to excuse myself morally? | | > 12. But that sacrifice performed for some material end or benefit or | > preformed ostentatiously, out of pride, is of the nature of | passion, O chief | > of the Bharatas. | > | > | | Many jyothishis recommend performing sacrifices to overcome | material problems | like poverty or ill-health. How does one judge this? Even most | of the great | vedic sacrifices like aswamedha were performed for the material | well-being of | the people and the king. | | I don´t think your scholarship or my non-scholarship helps to | understand what | the Lord said. Did arjuna understand all of what was said? I | think not! He | "understood" ONLY after seeing the Cosmic Form of the Lord! We | may debate till | doomsday, but the Icomprehensible will remain a mystery! FOR HE IS | INCOMREHENSIBLE TO HIMSELF! He knows all that is and was, but | not how or why he | exists and where! Everything he makes has a cause, a beginning | and an end, but | he himself has none! At least, with human understanding, we can | never comprehend | with him. Only admire and love. | | namaste | Mani | | | | | | gjlist- | | | | Your use of is subject to | | | | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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