Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 Sateesh wrote- re: Robert post Very admirable post - on a personal note, I do admire those (white English) people here who turn to Vegetarianism purely out of their own convictions (not to harm animals), rather than .... any other reason: religious, fear of punishment... May I say- this is the only true reason for being vegetarian. (Even if we forget Mad Cow Disease, which is, in my feeling, frightening reminder of human misuse of the nature, causing undue suffering of animals.For me, the connection is so obvious, it's hard not be aware of it. Yet..I see..many are not..That, I don't understand. I can almost hear poor cows saying: Greedy Man, you have milk, cheese, why do you need our lives...We are MAD at you. And you deserve to be punished.. That's the language you understand the best: fear. Anna - Sateesh Batas gjlist Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:04 AM Re: [gjlist] Mani and meat-eating Dear Robert, Very admirable post - on a personal note, I do admire those (white English) people here who turn to Vegetarianism purely out of their own convictions (not to harm animals), rather than say myself who only turned Vegetarian due to my mother's (Hindu) influence, as well as the horrific pictures painted by what we may become if we eat meat (reincarnation) - therefore, the afore-mentioned people are in fact more worthy for their reason behind their decision. And thank you for bringing out it is a question of humanity, not religion. Respectfully - Sateesh. ======== - "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch <gjlist> 13 March 2001 02:38 [gjlist] Mani and meat-eating : Namaste Das, Mani, and everyone, : : Well, Das may have love and reverence for Mani (which I do too, having had : some very cordial private emails with him in the past), and Mani may get a : tear in his eyes when reading Das' accolades, but I just have to say that I : had a tear in my eyes also when Mani went on and on talking about how : vegetarianism is some kind of cultural or religious bias, and that eating : meat was just OK to do. : : My position is like this: somebody may be Advaita, somebody else may be : Vaishnava, and somebody else may just not give a damn, and prefer to be : agnostic or atheist, but the fact is that there just has to be a standard : somewhere. Personalists and impersonalist can go on arguing ad infinitum, : about their philosophies, and in the end we may end up in a comfortable : camaraderie in something like a mutual adoration society, but I have to : tell you, that meat-eating is not for civilized human society, regardless : of what your religion or lack of it is. Why? Please consider the following: : : * Animals are high up on the evolutionary ladder, and next to humans out of : 8, 400,000 species of life that are mentioned in the Vedic Puranas. : : * If I pinch a human being, he will feel pain and protest; if I pinch an : animal, he will also feel pain, yet may or may not protest; if I pinch a : tree, it will not will feel pain, nor will any species of life whose : sensual perception and consciousness is not as evolved as that of animals : and humans. Does it not become clear that someone's choice to eat flesh : causes undo pain to innocent creatures who cannot defend themselves? If I : take a calf away from its mother, the mother cow will cry (and you can see : her tears). If you go to a slaughter house where animals are killed for : consumption, you will hear them wailing in fear and crying in agony. Do : you get the same response if you pick an apple from a tree and eat it, or : if you harvest wheat and make bread out of it? : : * Thus, the simple austerity of avoiding meat-eating, is not a matter of : this or that religion. It is a matter of humanity, and sensitivity, and : just plain giving up the impulses of the tongue and belly so that harmless : animals can live without fear and pain. Is that not comprehensible? No : amount of philosophical erudition can impress me, when out of the same : mouth, the person who speaks, makes some pale attempt to rationalize animal : slaughter as being part of some religious culture, or its avoidance is part : of some religious bias. It has nothing to do with religion, I say : again. It has to do with kindness, compassion, and love for those : creatures who depend on humans to be their shepherds, and not their : assassins. I usually avoid this topic of argument, because it makes me : real angry. I tried to avoid a hot rebuttal to Mani's remarks about it : being OK to eat meat, but left it, so as to avoid the heat of : controversy. But now that we have a mutual admiration society on this : list, with appreciations for one and all, while the whole subject was left : vaguely addressed, I just have to say something. Mani and Das, I love and : respect you both, but if I slap you in the face, you will feel pain, you : will feel bewildered, and you may even lose consciousness (because you : don't know how hard I can slap). So don't tell me that everything is OK : with the slaughter of animals, when those tortured animals whose fate it is : do be your pot roast tonight, experience more fear and pain than you could : imagine in your worst nightmare. : : That's all I have to say on this. : : Best wishes, : Robert : : ===================================== : Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer : 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. : Bend, OR. 97701-9037 : Phone: 541-318-0248 : visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail : rk. rk : : : : gjlist- : : : : Your use of is subject to : : gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 Do you believe everyone has been brainwashed & duped by the corporate controlled establishment media & status quo into eating meat? Most people are not aware of the dangers, addictions & diseases involved and will just conform. The public is just recently learning the error of there ways in smoking cigarettes after many years brainwashing. And because we a living in a Godless society & there is no rhyme or reason it's ok to kill even you own children. We simply become fertilizer when we die so just do your own thing man. What an advanced philosophy! According to the Manu Samhita anyone that Transports, Serves, Eats or Kills is involved in the murdering conspiracy & will be held accountable. We may think I didn't know but the laws of nature are so stringent that it won't matter. If a child puts his hand in the fire the fire does not say "Oh this is a infant I'll not burn it's hand". But because it comes in a nice pretty package in the store, meat must be all good. Because it tickles my tongue it surely must be a wonderful thing. And just as a sideline. It's bad to teach our kids about God in school because religion is just for fanatics. Our true ancestors are monkeys & we are simply the product of random chemical combination. Best Wishes manvantara - "Anna" <anmar <gjlist> Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:31 PM Re: [gjlist] meat-eating > Sateesh wrote- re: Robert post > > Very admirable post - on a personal note, I do admire those (white English) > people here who turn to Vegetarianism purely out of their own convictions > (not to harm animals), rather than .... > any other reason: religious, fear of punishment... > > May I say- this is the only true reason for being vegetarian. (Even if we forget Mad Cow Disease, which is, in my feeling, frightening reminder of human misuse of the nature, causing undue suffering of animals.For me, the connection is so obvious, it's hard not be aware of it. Yet..I see..many are not..That, I don't understand. I can almost hear poor cows saying: Greedy Man, you have milk, cheese, why do you need our lives...We are MAD at you. And you deserve to be punished.. That's the language you understand the best: fear. > > Anna > > - > Sateesh Batas > gjlist > Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:04 AM > Re: [gjlist] Mani and meat-eating > > > Dear Robert, > > Very admirable post - on a personal note, I do admire those (white English) > people here who turn to Vegetarianism purely out of their own convictions > (not to harm animals), rather than say myself who only turned Vegetarian due > to my mother's (Hindu) influence, as well as the horrific pictures painted > by what we may become if we eat meat (reincarnation) - therefore, the > afore-mentioned people are in fact more worthy for their reason behind their > decision. > > And thank you for bringing out it is a question of humanity, not religion. > > Respectfully - Sateesh. > > ======== > > > > > > - > "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch > <gjlist> > 13 March 2001 02:38 > [gjlist] Mani and meat-eating > > > : Namaste Das, Mani, and everyone, > : > : Well, Das may have love and reverence for Mani (which I do too, having had > : some very cordial private emails with him in the past), and Mani may get a > : tear in his eyes when reading Das' accolades, but I just have to say that > I > : had a tear in my eyes also when Mani went on and on talking about how > : vegetarianism is some kind of cultural or religious bias, and that eating > : meat was just OK to do. > : > : My position is like this: somebody may be Advaita, somebody else may be > : Vaishnava, and somebody else may just not give a damn, and prefer to be > : agnostic or atheist, but the fact is that there just has to be a standard > : somewhere. Personalists and impersonalist can go on arguing ad > infinitum, > : about their philosophies, and in the end we may end up in a comfortable > : camaraderie in something like a mutual adoration society, but I have to > : tell you, that meat-eating is not for civilized human society, regardless > : of what your religion or lack of it is. Why? Please consider the > following: > : > : * Animals are high up on the evolutionary ladder, and next to humans out > of > : 8, 400,000 species of life that are mentioned in the Vedic Puranas. > : > : * If I pinch a human being, he will feel pain and protest; if I pinch an > : animal, he will also feel pain, yet may or may not protest; if I pinch a > : tree, it will not will feel pain, nor will any species of life whose > : sensual perception and consciousness is not as evolved as that of animals > : and humans. Does it not become clear that someone's choice to eat flesh > : causes undo pain to innocent creatures who cannot defend themselves? If I > : take a calf away from its mother, the mother cow will cry (and you can see > : her tears). If you go to a slaughter house where animals are killed for > : consumption, you will hear them wailing in fear and crying in agony. Do > : you get the same response if you pick an apple from a tree and eat it, or > : if you harvest wheat and make bread out of it? > : > : * Thus, the simple austerity of avoiding meat-eating, is not a matter of > : this or that religion. It is a matter of humanity, and sensitivity, and > : just plain giving up the impulses of the tongue and belly so that harmless > : animals can live without fear and pain. Is that not comprehensible? No > : amount of philosophical erudition can impress me, when out of the same > : mouth, the person who speaks, makes some pale attempt to rationalize > animal > : slaughter as being part of some religious culture, or its avoidance is > part > : of some religious bias. It has nothing to do with religion, I say > : again. It has to do with kindness, compassion, and love for those > : creatures who depend on humans to be their shepherds, and not their > : assassins. I usually avoid this topic of argument, because it makes me > : real angry. I tried to avoid a hot rebuttal to Mani's remarks about it > : being OK to eat meat, but left it, so as to avoid the heat of > : controversy. But now that we have a mutual admiration society on this > : list, with appreciations for one and all, while the whole subject was left > : vaguely addressed, I just have to say something. Mani and Das, I love and > : respect you both, but if I slap you in the face, you will feel pain, you > : will feel bewildered, and you may even lose consciousness (because you > : don't know how hard I can slap). So don't tell me that everything is OK > : with the slaughter of animals, when those tortured animals whose fate it > is > : do be your pot roast tonight, experience more fear and pain than you could > : imagine in your worst nightmare. > : > : That's all I have to say on this. > : > : Best wishes, > : Robert > : > : ===================================== > : Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer > : 760 NW Broken Arrow Rd. > : Bend, OR. 97701-9037 > : Phone: 541-318-0248 > : visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail > : rk. rk > : > : > : > : gjlist- > : > : > : > : Your use of is subject to > : > : > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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