RE: vegetables/brahmins/scriptures

[Guest guest]

|

| Why this furore? Did I tell anyone to eat meat? NO!

 

Yes, you said that Rama and Krsna ate meat, which is just patently wrong,

and also offensive to those of us who know and love Him. "Whatever a great

man does, common men follow. And whatever exemplary acts he performs, all

the world pursues." If people thought that Lord Krsna ate meat, then they

would see no reason to stop themselves from such sinful acts.

 

| Is it anti-vaishnavite to say that plants too have lives and souls?

 

No, but you have to accept karma for eating plants too unless you offer them

to God first.

 

| Before offering the carrot to God we have to thank him for the carrot and

thank

| the carrot for having lived to nourish us - not arrogantly dig it up as

if it were a

| "non-being"! Is this heresy or blasphemy?

 

It is unclear what you mean by 'this.'

 

 

| Your mail about the brahmins of India is well-written.

 

Thank you. I am just repeating what I was taught by my spiritual master, and

also is written in the Vedic sastra.

 

| I do not in any way practice the mode of life prescribed for

| brahmins and have no right to designate myself as such.

 

Exactly my point. catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma vibhagasah. If you

can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk or you're a hypocrite for sure.

 

| But I do disagree with some of your "statements" like condemning

| brahmins for being in government service etc.

 

Brahmanas are supposed to act exclusively in the mode of goodness. One whose

actions are in the mode of goodness has no other role in society than to

perform sacred functions. There is no question of taking a service position

and remaining a perfect brahmana, because service is for sudras. Only those

rare souls who are actually qualified by guna and karma have the right to

claim the exalted title of brahmana.

 

| The ancient brahmins - as a profession - were

| in a sense in the service of the state: supported by the state

| and community to

| free them from working to earn a living, so that they could

| intensely pursue the

| acquisition and dispersion of the sastras, which included

| sciences as well as

| philosophy and religion - and regularly perform rites for the

| benefit of the

| king, state and population. A teacher of sanskrit or philosophy

| at a governmenr

| college cannot be disqualified.

 

Actually in Kali-yuga there are no qualified brahmanas. Kalau sudra

sambhava. Any so-called brahmana who accepts a service position, even with

the state is considered fallen to some degree. The Vedic rites cannot be

performed properly because the brahmanas no longer have the qualification to

chant the mantras properly. Such bogus rites have no good effect, and may

even be dangerously offensive. The sastras say that dharma in satya-yuga was

meditation, in dvarapa-yuga was temple worship, in treta was yajna and in

Kali-yuga, is harinam sankirtan. So better to just drop all these

pretentious trappings of brahmanism, humbly chant the Holy Name of God and

become free from all material designations.

 

| Scriptures can be quoted to justify anything.

 

Certainly you must mean 'misquoted.' But this is the activity of dishonest

people who twist the scripture to their own ends. This does not apply to

those who know the real purport of teh scriptures.

 

| Subjection to authority can be fatal.

 

It has to be done with intelligent discrimination. We should accept only the

highest authority (God), and not the temporary opinion of some inferior

human being. This is brahmana. Lord Jesus Christ submitted to his Father's

authority and the result was certainly fatal, at least for his temporary

material form. But in the process he demonstrated the perfect integrity of a

pure devotee of God, and achieved eternal fame as a result. Krsna says it is

better to die in the performance of one's duty than to perform another's

duty perfectly. We have to die anyway; better to die pursuing the highest

ideal which we are capable of conceiving.

 

| Both have to be done with insight. The Gita was spoken to

| encourage arjuna to fight and destroy his cousins. The chief "argument"

| there is that the soul never dies:

 

No, the eternality of the soul is a topic, not an argument. Arjuna has to

kill the Kauravas because they usurped the kingdom from the Pandavas, who

were the rightful successors. His duty as a Ksatriya is to protect dharma

and show the proper example of righteousness to the people. His conflict is

between the ideal of upholding dharma and the practical necessity of killing

family members. He doesn't see at first how he can harmonize the two, until

Krsna teaches him detachment through surrendering the results of all work to

Him.

 

The principal topics of the Gita are five:

 

1) The eternal nature of the soul

2) The nature of the Supreme Being as controller of all

3) The actions and reactions of material nature according to the three modes

4) The controlling influence of the Supreme as time

5) The relationship beween the soul and God

 

The chief arguments (as distinguished from topics) of the Gita are three:

 

1) Because the soul is eternal, we are not the proprietors of action in the

temporary material world. Therefore the result of all activities should be

offered to the Lord (karma-yoga)

2) One should be able to discriminate between reality and illusion on the

basis of scriptural knowledge (buddhi-yoga). Only then can he understand the

Absolute Truth.

3) The highest duty is to surrender completely to the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, engage completely in His service, and in return He will purify us

from all karmic reaction and grant us liberation from material existence

(bhakti-yoga).

 

 

| This does not give us the right to kill those who differ from us

| or even insult us or steal from us!

 

Of course not. Arjuna is a Ksatriya and it was his duty to kill to establish

dharma. Our duties are determined by our psycho-physiological constitution

under the modes of material nature. In Kali-yuga almost all of us are

considered sudras. All we are fit to do is work for a living under the

guidance of others. But whatever our position we are supposed to act

accordingly and offer the result to Krsna.

 

| The holocaust and all the wars in the last centuries were the result of

the

| stupid subordination of the people to state authority. It is better to

ask and

| question than follow blindly.

 

Of course this is absolutely right. We have to use discrimination who we

accept as authority. It is better to be persecuted as a conscientious

objector than to kill people in an unjust war. Arjuna inquired searchingly

from Krsna in the Gita. But he also accepted Krsna as the supreme authority.

He had the confidence that whatever Krsna ordered him to do would be best

for everyone concerned. But he was emotionally disturbed because of having

to kill people he loved. Nobody ever said that following God's order is

going to be easy. Even Jesus had a difficult time of it. The difference

between Arjuna and Jesus, and most of us is that they went ahead and did

their sacred duty anyway.

 

| You are lucky that you met Srila Prabhupada and learned from him.

 

It was my lifelong desire and quest to study from a spiritual master of the

level of Jesus Christ. I would accept nothing less. I searched for many

years before I found Srila Prabhupada, and then I surrendered my entire life

to him. I have not regretted this a single day, although I suffered very

much on account of my neophyte Godbrothers.

 

| But how about all the millions who had other religious

| leaders? The crusades, the jihad of the Moslems ... all arose from

accepting the

| "scriptures" as interpreted for them by their leaders!

 

That's because they accept leaders who were not on the highest level of

self-realization. In general, people get the leaders they deserve in the

sense that they can only see so far ahead of where they are in the process

of spiritual evolution. They cannot choose to follow someone too much more

advanced than they are, because he is outside their comprehension.

 

The greatest spiritual teachers are never accepted by the masses until

centuries after their deaths. This is a historical fact. It is risky to

accept temporal leadership from an imperfect being. But millions do and

suffer the inevitable consequences. This is their misfortune, but they also

learn from this experience and are wiser next time around.

 

| I am sorry if I hurt any of your feelings.

 

My feelings do not matter, but you must apologize to Rama and Krsna for

insulting Them!

 

| But I am conscious of the fact that the world is full of various kinds of

people and religions and sects, vaishnavites are a minority. I try to think

with my heart and feel with the brains - and get misunderstood!

 

As Das always says, there is less mass at the top of the pyramid.

 

Best,

Dasanudas